Thomas Graves

I agree, Tom, but didn't say he [Lovelady] was hugging the left wall. I was trying to show the angle that Lovelady appeared to be hanging out at. I know you didn't Ray. You're not the newbie. --Tommy

Thanks for the posts, Hiram. Was the boat called Tejana II, or something like that? BTW, Don't pay any attention to "Null and Void" here. --Tommy Hi Tommy, I did not see the name as we aproached the slip to board. The stern may have been blocked. It was kept in the Intercoastal Boat Yard. I have not had time to learn to post an image. If you have a photo of the Tejana III, you might post it so that I can compare it to my photo. --HH Hiram, The photo of the boat you posted looks like the one I found on the Internet when I was "researching" the Tejana III a couple of years ago. Here's another one, with a list of the crew: According to some sources, Larry Laborde was captain of the ship. Here are two photos of him. Do you recognize him? Do you recognize any of these other "characters' from back in the day? http://spartacus-educational.com/1AAcubans.htm Does this look like the "Davy" who came to your house with Hemming? http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKdavisH.htm He's also in this group of photos: Thanks, --Tommy PS Does this look like the dock you went to?

Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Ray, You realize that Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail, don't you? Here are two Wiegman frames, taken about 5 seconds apart. The one with the car was taken first. The one without the car was taken at the same time that Altgens 6 was taken. Credit: Chris Davidson It looks like Lovelady may have come down one step between the two frames, and is leaning forward in the second one. --Tommy Yep, Just that I didn't have a center rail available when i took the photo. Ray, What most newbies (not you) don't realize is that Altgens was standing down Elm Street at about a 60 degree angle from Wiegman's line of sight to Lovelady. That's why Lovelady appears to be hugging the left wall (and why Prayer Man isn't visible) in Altgens 6. But Lovelady wasn't hugging the left wall -- he was standing near the center handrail. --Tommy

Thanks for the posts, Hiram. Was the boat called Tejana II, or something like that? BTW, Don't pay any attention to "Null and Void" here. --Tommy

Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Ray, You realize that Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail, don't you? Here are two Wiegman frames, taken about 5 seconds apart. The one with the car was taken first. The one without the car was taken at the same time that Altgens 6 was taken. Credit: Chris Davidson It looks like Lovelady may have come down one step between the two frames, and is leaning forward in the second one. --Tommy

Chris, Might be a different O.V. Campbell. I wonder why the Internet has never heard of the "American Public Administration Service" except as regards the placing / evaluating of 80 civil service workers in Lodi, California, in 1941? --Tommy

Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys. There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him? As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part.... Linda, I'm not talking about where his tie might be. In the Wiegman frame you posted, "Campbell?" is wearing a dress-up coat or jacket, only a small portion of which is visible covering his left shoulder and side because the frame's edge prevents us from seeing more of said coat or jacket. I think your "Campbell?" in that Wiegman frame is the same guy that's in the small yellow rectangle, above, (look at how much of his shirt is showing in both frames) and that he's also possibly the guy who waved Baker up the steps in Couch Darnell. I'm going back to the idea that "Big Lumbering Guy" might have been big Jack Dougherty, in spite of the fact that he testified that he was inside the TSBD at the time. Or who knows? Maybe Jack was up on the sixth floor, planting evidence. --Tommy Tommy...OK!!!! Now I think i finally "see" what you mean about all that white stuff in our original Campbell in Wiegman - when you showed how he is the SAME BIG GUY in the Bell photo (the guy i have the yellow rectangle around him) with his suit jacket unbuttoned and open, and a large area of his torso/white shirt/dark tie exposed. So that is what i'm seeing in our Wiegman "Campbell" (and so the dark area down his middle must be the dark tie as i thought). So we agree - the same big tall guy next to Truly in the Truly Group in WIEGMAN, that I picked out as Campbell being the "Big Lumbering Guy" and whom we have agreed for some time now was Campbell - IS indeed, (still) Campbell! Right? BUT at this point you think, IN DARNELL that same big guy is NOT the "Big Lumbering Guy" I had posited a few wks ago was Campbell wandering bk to the Depository after the shots.......but rather, Campbell has moved up to the steps and is instead the "Waving Man" waving Baker up the steps. Right? Just want to make sure we are on the same page.... So, I take it we still agree, on the identification of Campbell - he's the big, tall guy w/o glasses wearing a dark (might be brown) suit, standing next to Truly in Wiegman (and Bell). Correct? Gotchya! [...] Linda, Yes. Yes. Yes. And keep up the good work! --Tommy PS Sheriff's Detective Roger Craig can be seen in Skaggs 16, talking to Sheriff's Investigator Lummie Lewis (I believe). Behind the red light on the car's roof. Could that be big O.V. Campbell kinda leaning against the car?

bumped for Linda and Ian

Ian, That's him. I remember the name "Mary Kupstis" from the research I was doing on Campbell a couple of months ago. I seem to remember his birth year's being 1909, as well. Born in Oklahoma as I recall. One year after it became a state. Can you cut and paste the web address here? --Tommy Edit: Upon further review, the call on the field is reversed. He was born on November 26, 1908.

bumped for Jon and Roger Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail and had this L.O.S. of where Altgens was standing down on Elm Street.

Jon and Roger, Did you read my post on another thread in which I explained to Jon that Altgens 6 was shot at about a 50 degree angle to the front plane of the TSBD, whereas Couch / Darnell were filmed at about a 110 degree angle to that plane? Which explains why Prayer Man is visible in Couch / Darnell but not in Altgens 6? --Tommy

Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys. There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him? As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part.... Linda, I'm not talking about where his tie might be. In the Wiegman frame you posted, "Campbell?" is wearing a dress-up coat or jacket, only a small portion of which is visible covering his left shoulder and side because the frame's edge prevents us from seeing more of said coat or jacket. I think your "Campbell?" in that Wiegman frame is the same guy that's in the small yellow rectangle, above, (look at how much of his shirt is showing in both frames) and that he's also possibly the guy who waved Baker up the steps in Couch Darnell. I'm going back to the idea that "Big Lumbering Guy" might have been big Jack Dougherty, in spite of the fact that he testified that he was inside the TSBD at the time. Or who knows? Maybe Jack was up on the sixth floor, planting evidence. --Tommy

Linda, Great work! One observation I'd like to make regarding the big guy standing next to Truly whom we've tentatively identified as Ochus V. Campbell -- He appears to be wearing a coat and tie. I believe that he is Campbell and that he may well be the same man in Couch / Darnell who sidesteps out of the way for Baker and motions him up the steps with his left arm. Keep up the good work! --Tommy Thank you, Tommy!! And thanks for clarifying that about Ochus V. Campbell! I had sort of wondered if he had a tie on because in that side view above it looks like there's something dark going down the middle of his chest - like a tie. But i have one question... The guy above appears to have on a white shirt (or white or light jacket) compared to his pants which are definitely darker. Whereas....I just looked at my Darnell zip file again...and the guy at the base of the Steps waving people into the TSBD appears to have on a dark suit - with the jacket the same dark shade as his pants. How do you square that? Whereas, the big lumbering guy I originally thought might be OV Campbell in Darnell, (and up till now we had been designating as Campbell), does have on a short - waist length - jacket which in Darnell is darker than the guy's in Wiegman, but definitely lighter than his pants. And that guy also turn s and walks toward the Depository. While it make sense that Campbell could be the waving guy at the base of the steps (acting like he owns the place) I'm not sure i can agree with it being Campbell because of that discrepancy. What do you say? Anyone else have any thoughts about the Campbell ID or who "Waving Man" might be if he's? not Campbell? And also... if "Big Lumbering Guy" is not Campbell - who is he? He is definitely walking bk toward the steps. Why would he go toward the steps if he doesn't work there? And if he does work there who might he be? Linda, Maybe "Big Lumbering Guy" is standing to the left of the "Two Khaki Guys" in the top photo of post # 139. --Tommy PS The guy labeled "Campbell?" in this Wiegman frame seems to be wearing a coat (you can see a "sliver" of it on his left side) and trousers which are the same color. Like a suit.

Martin, One possible interpretation is that Robert Oswald and the Paines were Lee Harvey Oswald's closest friends in town. --Tommy

Welcome Lance, You write very well. One question: What year did your sister-in-law start working at that factory? Thanks, --Tommy

Jon, I guess it's logical to assume that those witnesses and authorities who lied (knowingly told a falehood) are suspects in the assassination and / or its cover up. I for one would like to know why TSBD employee, Judy Johnson, says that Buell Wesley Frazier is a "lying sack of xxxx," or words to that effect. The fascinating thing about Frazier is that he continues to insist that the package he saw on the back seat of his car was too short to have contained the broken-down Carcano Model 91/38 carbine. Is that what Johnson thinks Frazier is lying about? --Tommy

Robert, "Sorry, this content isn't available right now." --Tommy

Thank you! Enough said! It's a distraction and waste of time to continue debating this issue. Moreover, it's a diversion from advancing more important work on PM (and other JFK assassination issues), IMO! I thought Prudhomme would be happy to see that a white t-shirt is visible on PP's upper chest, and that the rest of you would find it interesting that PP is holding something in both hands near his / her face, and then lowers both hands at the same time that Lovelady leans forward and Altgens 6 is taken down the street. --Tommy PS "Oswald was a man, therefore Prayer Person must be a man." LOL Lousy logic, IMHO. Although I do believe PP was Oswald. Why? Well, "process of elimination," the white t-shirt, and the fact that I really really really really really really wanna believe that it's Oswald. So ... what was he holding in his hands?

Moved here from another thread. Thomas Graves, on 21 Sept 2015 - 5:47 PM, said: Jon, Wiegman was the first to capture PM on film -- I'm guessing about 5 seconds before Altgens 6 (based on Lovelady's leaning-forward position in Altgens 6). PM was not hidden behind part of the TSBD building from Wiegman's camera because Wiegman was filming the front entrance from about 110 degrees (close to perpendicular), whereas Altgens was photographing it from about a 50 degree angle. Why do you ask? Wiegman gif. Credit: Chris Davidson. Note: The frame with the car comes first, then the frame without the car comes a few seconds later. PM is visible in the shadows in both frames, as is Billy Lovelady who is standing in the sunlight by the center handrail. Whether PM is a man or a woman, it's interesting to note that he / she is holding something with both hands and moves both arms down in this two-frame gif. So much for the "crossed arms and radiator" theory. --Tommy BTW, If you want to "verify" my analysis, you can view this part of the Wiegman film here: Edit: I just noticed that you can barely make out a white t-shirt under PM's open-at-the-top dark outer-shirt in the two-frame Wiegman gif.

Hi Tommy! Thanks for the clarification about who said what. Ok, maybe James didn't "state" Sooy was ONI, but as you said, Greg did, and James agreed with his assessment, which, my feeling is, is tantamount to him "saying" Sooy was ONI, I'm guessing Greg did some digging to find out and I don't doubt him and neither did James. And, i think you misread, I never said that Krystinik said, Sooy was ONI. I said Greg Parker and and James Richards did. Besides do spooks point out other spooks?! I think that's against protocol, isn't it? When i was researching Sooy over a year ago when i first heard of him via James, in a FB JFK group, I remember reading in a book online somewhere that when Sooy was either in Panama or Trinidad (or both) one of his jobs was to select the ONI intelligence operatives for that entire region (can't remember what the region included - if it was the Caribbean or South American and the Caribbean. I swore I bookmarked that but now i can't find it. Probably filed it in the wrong folder.). At any rate, i think to pick ONI spooks one would probably have to be the head ONI spook...no? I also would have a hard time imagining the Navy would set up anyone over a Naval Air Station, let alone 3 of them - one criticically involved in nuclear/ballistic missiles (Trinidad) during the height of the cold war - without them being ONI. It's just not plausible, And Sooy seems to have been not only a friend to Krystinik but an older mentor (he was almost 30 years older) - I'm guessing it had a lot to do with being ONI. Those are great thoughts about the coup, Tommy! I agree - it looks like it was very well cared for. Probably his. Plus the way it was pulled there crooked - sort of like he knew he was a bigwig who could park however he liked and no one would bother him. If it were a common person, the DPD would have had him move his car or at least park it neatly along the sidewalk. Linda, You're right. I misread that part. My bad. BTW, You should search this forum for "Robert D. Steel." I interviewed him a few years ago. He must have known Sooy. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sandiegouniontribune/obituary.aspx?n=robert-d-steel&pid=163782275 --Tommy

Chris, Wiegman? Couch / Darnell? --Tommy

Deleted. For the same reason. --Tommy

deleted to save bandwidth or whatever --Tommy

Linda, Where does Krystinak say Sooy was ONI? BTW, I don't think James Richards independently said Sooy was ONI -- he asked if anybody knew about Sooy and Greg Parker replied that Sooy was ONI, which evidently was good enough for James. Keep up the good work! --Tommy PS I would wager that that Chevy coupe was Sooy's car, for two reason's: 1 ) It looks like it it's in very good, clean condition, as would be expected if it was owned by a navy captain and former aviator. 2 ) Generally speaking, older people (like Sooy who was 60 years old in 1963) like to keep an older car (like this one) with which they are familiar and comfortable.