Thomas Graves

bumped

Jon, Prayer Man isn't visible in Altgens 6. PM is back in the far upper left hand corner of the entrance way, out of view of Altgens' camera. Altgens took the photo at a 52 degree angle to the building (approx). In short, PM was hidden from Altgens' view by part of the building. I hope you're not confusing Lovelady (who is clearly visible in Altgens 6) with Prayer Man. That issue was settled a long time ago. --Tommy

Okay. I'll bite, Mr. Tidd. Why is Algens 6 more important? Altgens 6 shows the blurry features of Secret Service Agent Glenn Bennett (see black pointer). From Bennett's statement 11/23/63: <quote on> About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed. <quote off> When he heard the first shot he'd been looking at the crowd to the right. Willis 5 (Z202) corroborates Bennett, the seated agent on the far right: After hearing the first shot he turned to look at JFK in time to see him struck in the back about four inches below the shoulder (bullet hole in shirt is 4" below collar). His features in Altgens are blurred as he was turning forward, putting the back shot immediately after Z255, which syncs to Altgens 6. Bennett's contemporaneous observation of the timing and location of the back wound helps establish the throat wound as an entrance and ultimately leads to the most important question regarding the murder of JFK -- What happened to the bullets causing the back and throat wounds? One can only wonder why SA Bennett waited until the fatal head shot to yell out "He's hit!," rather than a couple of seconds earlier when he saw a bullet hit JFK four inches below his right shoulder. Maybe he just couldn't believe his eyes or thought he was dreaming? --Tommy

That's right, Jim! That's exactly it! It is important to Dunc and others because it's an alternative to the facts. Well dissected with a minimum of verbiage. Give yourself a pat. What is important is to get to the truth. Prayer Woman says Hi Duncan, If you keep this up, we gonna have to invite Fetzer and Cinque back to argue Lovelady was Oswald. LOL --Tommy

Dear Clive. No need to exaggerate. You were the one who used the word "panic," not I. --Tommy

Fascinating idea, Chris. Good observations and explanations. --Tommy

Dear Robert, Can't you see PM's shirt cuff and sleeve hanging below his wrist in the lighter photo? I can. Or do you think it isn't his shirt cuff and sleeve at all, but that he simply had a forearm which was strangely shaped and disproportionately large for his wrist? BTW, how would a "long sleeved t-shirt" come into play in the photos? Are you saying that PM's t-shirt's sleeves are visible? Really? Thanks, --Tommy edited and bumped for Robert Prudhomme

Tommy - you still don't "get" it. It's a magic clip. Chris, I was just wondering if that would be a plausible argument a LNer could make. --Tommy

Yes, Chris. It was only 10 years. A veritable blink of the eye. LOL --Tommy

Linda, I agree about the Molina figure, but I still think he's wearing a coat, tie, and hat. Question: Where is Shelley? Question: Is that Lovelady rising up on the far left, or a woman wearing a light-colored scarf on her head and climbing the steps? --Tommy

Your welcome Tom. The video also demonstrates that the clip falls when the last round is chambered. So, presumably a clip should have been found with the empty shells by the window? Would the clip have been easier for the sniper to locate and pick up than the cases / shells? --Tommy

Chris, Excellent post. --Tommy

Dear Robert, Can you see (in the lighter photo) his shirt cuff hanging below his wrist? I can. Or do you think it isn't a shirt cuff at all, but that he simply had forearms which were disproportionately large for his wrists? BTW, how would a "long sleeved t-shirt" come into play in the photos? Are you saying that PM's t-shirt's sleeves are visible? Really? Thanks, --Tommy

Also, PM's extremely short haircut was not really in fashion for women in 1963. And how many women rolled the sleeves of their coats up to their elbows? Dear Robert, I believe that Prayer Person's sleeves are rolled down. How else to explain the (barely perceptible in the top photo) dark line just above his / her wrist, and the fact that this darkness extends up his / her arm until it reaches the darker (in the shade) part of the sleeve? Note as well how the cuff of his / her sleeve hangs down below the wrist. Regarding Prayer Person's "extremely short haircut," what is that black blob behind PP's neck? Hair? --Tommy

1. He has a head and two arms? --Tommy

Tranny? I have a C-6 in my Ford. Get it? --Tommy

Jon, Automatic or manual? --Tommy

Linda, Great work! One observation I'd like to make regarding the big guy standing next to Truly whom we've tentatively identified as Ochus V. Campbell -- He appears to be wearing a coat and tie. I believe that he is Campbell and that he may well be the same man in Couch / Darnell who sidesteps out of the way for Baker and motions him up the steps with his left arm. Keep up the good work! --Tommy

In that case Prudhomme, I respectfully suggest that you stop looking in the mirror. Sorry, Dunc, I don't understand what you are saying. Could you be a little more specific? Are you suggesting to this forum that I am a cross dressing transvestite? "If the shoe fits, wear it?" Sorry Bob. I couldn't resist. LOL --Tommy

Hi Tommy! Actually, I don't think Molina is wearing a hat - that's his very dark (but graying) hair and I also think he's wearing either sunglasses or those glasses that automatically darken - if they existed in '63. At any rate - dark glasses. As you know I believe he's the 2nd TLR cameraman on the steps - and in one of the blowups i made from a Towner film screen capture of him looking down into the viewfinder - you can see his very dark hair and it seems to have a silver rim around it at the hairline. His described his physical traits in his extensive FBI file. He said in his description he was 5'7 1/2" & 164# and "stocky" and had a "fair" complexion, brown eyes, with a large mole in his LEFT eyebrow, and that his hair was "dark, graying, and balding in front" ("balding in front" could mean a wide variety of things - it could just mean "receding" or "thinning" which it appears his hairline is very high. But i don't see any circular-type shiny dome for example.). So what i see in that photo blowup jives with his description of himself. He was 39 at the time, if i remember correctly. Also to me, in Altgens 6 he doesn't appear to have a suit and tie on - but a short sleeved white shirt (I'm sure a dress shirt). Actually, I just looked at it again to make sure... and his arms are crossed over his head and you can see his long sleeves are rolled or pushed up to just above elbow level - you can see the fabric bunched up there. He may have on a tie (probably given his job) - but i can't see one. That being said - it could be a light colored tie that's being bleached out by the bright sun he's standing in OR Mr Williams standing in front of him could be blocking the view of it. Hope this helps! Linda, I think we're talking about different people. If you could indicate who you're talking about with an arrow or a circle, then I'll either confirm or deny. I would do it myself, but I don't know how. --Tommy

Exactly, Robert. I was just kidding. Seriously, perhaps a silenced shot or two were fired from the TSBD and / or Dal-Tex and were heard by only a few people in special places, acoustically-speaking. --Tommy

Clive, Was Wiegman "panicking" when he ran down Elm Street with his camera running? Why did he do that? Had he heard the shots? Do you think the people around the TSBD and the "island" were acting as though nothing unusual had happened when they were caught on film in Couch / Darnell? Why were so many of them still looking down Elm Street after the limo had disappeared under the Triple Underpass? To get one last look at Lady Bird? (Just kidding.) Do you think they were only reacting (in Wiegman as well as Couch / Darnell) to what they could see happening down the street and / or on the Grassy Knoll? Or had they heard the shots? Was it a combination? Was Baker "panicking" when he ran across Elm Street Extension towards the TSBD? Why did he do that? Had he heard the shots? Were Shelley and Lovelady "panicking" when they started running as Running Lady ran past them? Why were they walking down Elm Street Extension, anyway? Had they heard the shots? Etc. --Tommy

Clive, Correct. I disagree. I guess your whole point is that one of the two guys wearing khaki in front of the TSBD during the motorcade couldn't have turned to look at the TSBD in response to having heard a shot or shots coming from there. Ditto A. J. Millican and the black women next to him down on Elm Street. --Tommy Well, I haven't commented on this at all but the President has gone by them already, so for some there is not much use in continuing to watch the back of a head when there are other VIPs that they may recognise passing directly in front of them. I don't see anything noteworthy with the Khaki guy either, he takes his eye of the motorcade for a second, as do many, many others all alone the parade route. He might have heard something sure, a pop, a bang, someone shouting something stupid, anything. You have to look at Dorman again sometime Tommy and watch the lack of reaction on the south side there by the intersection, it completely supports this theory. Betzner is one we know and recognise, he heard the first shot he said immediately after he took his photo on Elm and yet he just stands there watching the limo with woman and children near him. Isn't he supposed to at least look around and see if he himself is in harms way? Anyway it is what it is, the films support it but it isn't about no one hearing anything and lying about it, in that regard I'd say many heard something but this is and my own point, they showed no outward signs of being scared of these sounds, these sounds later became shots. Willis is another one we know well and claimed he recognised the first shot as gunfire, I am totally convinced that he, like everyone else directly opposite him, just stood there and made no move to protect himself or his family. I have have no way of knowing what this really signifies but one firecracker followed by "two booms" that are obviously to everyone as gunfire is clearly out of the question. Everything starts with the unmissable head shot, the reaction in the crowd starts there and spreads. Wiegman too sets off a minor chain of events outside the TSBD. That's what the films say. It get's worse. At this point I'm even willing to believe the possibility that even that man and woman on the pedestal may have missed the whole thing, they certainly do not seem afraid of any sound they are alleged to have heard. Now, how can you capture something on film like that but not be aware of it? Hi Clive Considering how loud a rifle report directly above them and pointed in their general direction would have been, don't you find it odd that there are no startle reactions visible on the faces of the bystanders, not even as late as the Altgens 6 photo? Robert, Well I guess that proves it. No shots were fired from the TSBD. --Tommy

Jon, D.J. is a scholar? --Tommy