Thomas Graves

Jon, How do we know that Oswald "read Russian with ease"? Krokodil? Also, we know that he had problems spelling in English. Would that translate into spelling problems in Russian? Would you say he was a capable writer of English? --Tommy

It's just that neither Shelley nor Lovelady are visible on the steps after the shots, but can be seen walking down, and then apparently across, Elm Street Extension as Running Woman runs past them. --Tommy

Robert, I'm looking for Shelly and I only see one guy on the steps who is wearing a coat and tie. I'm talking about the guy behind Frazier. But he seems to be wearing a hat, too, and looks kinda broad-shouldered. Was Bill Shelly known to wear a hat? Do you think Shelley was already over on the "corner of the park" when this footage was taken, conferring with Gloria Calvery? Or already inside, calling his wife? --Tommy Regarding your belief that Lovelady , in the gif, can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see Lovelady standing on the steps just to the left of the center hand railing, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone) would have knelt or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have sat down to eat his lunch at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so. Just to show you how fair I am, I will allow you the possibility that Lovelady didn't kneel down or sit down at all, but that he climbed one step backwards in the gif. But wouldn't that have been rather awkward and obvious? I don't know. I can only imagine what that would look like. And why would he have moved from the center hand railing to the left edge of the steps? To have a worse view of what was goin' on down on Elm?

Jim's font size is bigger than Oswald! Quote of the Week already... "The photo was obviously altered!" --Tommy

Dear Robert, OMG! You've found William Shelley on the steps in Couch / Darnell??? That could be a real "game changer," Robert !!! I thought that was Joe Molina. Now, when you say "Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet," which "Gloria Calvery" are you referring to? Running Woman, I suppose. But please do clarify, Robert. (BTW, I think Running Woman isn't all that far from "the corner of the park," as Shelley put it. Totally Separate Question: Do you believe Couch / Darnell started filming about 20 seconds after the final shot, or a minute or so later? Thanks, --Tommy PS -- Regarding your belief that in Couch / Darnell, Lovelady can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see Lovelady standing on the steps, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone) would have knelt or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have sat down to eat his lunch at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so. Comments? Anyone? bumped for comments

A truly wise "hippy" activist before his time! --Tommy

Oswald could have created the BYP because his bad guy "handler" told him to. But Oswald might have outwitted his handler by holding two ideologically-incompatible "Communist" newspapers in his hands, so that he could later claim "It was a joke! I'm not really a Communist! No Communist would have touted both of those newspapers!" Get it, John? That and the fact that Oswald might have intentionally, at the photographic studio he was working at, created a fake-looking photo of himself, complete with weirdly-tilted body and pasted-on head of himself. And he would / could claim that someone else had faked the photograph / photographs. Get it? --Tommy Bumped for John Dolva.

Oswald could have created the BYP because his bad guy "handler" told him to. But Oswald might have outwitted his handler by holding two ideologically-incompatible "Communist" newspapers in his hands, so that he could later claim "It was a joke! I'm not really a Communist! No Communist would have touted both of those newspapers!" Get it, John? That and the fact that Oswald might have intentionally, at the photographic studio he was working at, created a fake-looking photo of himself, complete with weirdly-tilted body and pasted-on head of himself. And he would / could claim that someone else had faked the photograph / photographs. Get it? --Tommy

It could have been Oswald's clever way of complying with his handler's directive (having some incriminating-looking photos of him taken) but making sure he could say later, if necessary, "Look, I'm not really a Communist. I'm was just joking! And not only am I holding two incompatible newspapers, but look! -- I ... , uhh, I mean somebody pasted my head on somebody else's body!"" --Tommy edited and bumped

The black guy wearing the beanie on the right can be seen at 0:58 in the Robert Hughes film, running across Elm Street from the "infield grass" to the Grassy Knoll area. He was "captured" in several still photographs taken of the crowd on the Grassy Knoll after that, and even in the parking lot if I remember correctly. It wouldn't surprised me if the guy in the middle "being assisted down the slope" was his friend. Edit: On second thought, I think you're right about the guy-on-the-right's looking like a "parking lot attendant." Different guy altogether from the guy wearing the beanie. My bad. Or could he be TSBD "porter" Eddie Piper??? from the great ROKC website: http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t34-was-eddie-piper-on-the-6th-floor --Tommy :suny There was a RR Yard Pkg Lot Attendent named Oscar McVey, who was on the sidewalk on the N. side of Elm down by the TU somewhere. I just reread his sole FBI statement hoping it would say what race he was...but it doesn't mention it. That being said - it seems this was a common job for black men back then. So maybe McVey is the black guy helping the chap down the GN? He was in the general area. Thanks Linda! The Oscar McVey you refer to was probably 73 year old Oscar S. McVey, or his 33 year old son, Oscar Kenneth McVey. http://www.myheritage.com/names/oscar_mcvey Keep up the good work! But you might want to consider editing what you wrote about Gloria Calvery on FindaGrave. To keep Bobby Prudhomme happy. --Tommy

It could have been Oswald's clever way of complying with his handler's request (having some incriminating-looking photos of him taken) but making sure he could say later, if necessary, "Look, I'm not really a Communist. I'm was just joking! And not only am I holding two incompatible newspapers, but look! -- I ... , uhh, I mean somebody pasted my head on somebody else's body!"" --Tommy

Bumped because it's kinda hard to find, and this way you won't have to go to that evil evil "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com , to find it. Might get cooties there. Enjoy. --Tommy

Rotman showed Oswald around the newsroom, and the slight man with a faint Texas accent acted oddly. "He spoke in a kind of robotic tone and spouted Marxist doctrine like he had just read it in a book. He was strange and stilted," Classic Aspergers Syndrome [...] From Lilian Murret's testimony: "he was very polite and refined.” Or put another way, HE SOMETIMES SOUNDED FORMAL... [...] As in classic Asperger Syndrome. Excellent point, Greg! --Tommy

Dear Robert, OMG! You've found Shelley on the steps in Couch / Darnell??? That could be a real "game changer," Robert !!! I thought that was Joe Molina. Now, when you say "Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet," which "Gloria Calvery" are you referring to? Running Woman, I suppose. But please do clarify, Robert. (BTW, I think Running Woman isn't all that far from "the corner of the park," as Shelley puts it. Totally Separate Question: Do you believe Couch / Darnell started filming about 20 seconds after the final shot, or a minute or so later? Thanks, --Tommy PS -- Regarding your belief that in Couch / Darnell, Lovelady can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see him standing on the steps, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone else) would have knelt down or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have knelt / sat down at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so. Comments? Anyone?

I have no idea, Robert. To "cover" for her while she was doing something, somewhere else? Beats the heck out of me. Let us know when you find her in the photographs or films. --Tommy PS -- Could that be her, running down the Elm Street Extension towards the TSBD, after all? Maybe her new husband made her lose some weight!

I believe that the clues in Shelley's / Lovelady's / Baker's / Truly's / Calvery's statements and /or testimonies must be compared and contrasted with the photographic record. --Tommy

Bob, Try following the instructions and tips I gave you. (Maybe you haven't had your eyes checked recently and / or can't find the blown up, slo-mo version of the clip?) You recently needed my help to see "Gloria Calvery" behind "Aurelia Alonzo." Maybe if you follow my instructions again, you will eventually be able to make out Shelley and Lovelady walking down or across Elm Street Extension in C/D ! BTW, I'm, fairly confident that Shelley and Lovelady would have recognized Gloria Calvery, if they had encountered her. Have you found the "real" Gloria Calvery watching the motorcade down on Elm Street or on the "corner of the park" yet? Is she visible in this Couch / Darnell clip which was stabilized by the evil evil Gerda Dunckel?: --Tommy edited and bumped

Dear James, Don't get me wrong -- I'm a dyed-in-the-wool CTer. (My pet theory is that the observation post / command post for the assassination was probably in Harry D. Holmes fifth-floor office in the Terminal Annex Building across the plaza from the TSBD.) But I do try to find reasonable explanations for things that other, perhaps more "over the top," CTers prefer to give sinister, conspiratorial "reasons" for. In this case, I think Fitz assumed that Oswald was being sufficiently well-guarded / protected by Graves [no relation to me] and Leavelle, and that Fitz's attention at that moment was focused on the backing-up car and getting it to stop where he wanted it to stop. He didn't want Pierce to back the car into the oncoming Oswald, Graves, and Leavelle, did he? That's why he "broke away" -- to give visual / oral instructions, through the car's window, to Reno Pierce, to let him know when to stop, That's the point. Why do we have to read sinister motives into every so-called "suspicious" activity in this case? Is it because our community of students and researchers is perhaps just a little bit ..... paranoid? Carry on. --Tommy

edited and bumped

Bob, Try following the instructions and tips I gave you. (Maybe you haven't had your eyes checked recently and / or can't find the blown up, slo-mo version of the clip?) You recently needed my help to see "Gloria Calvery" behind "Aurelia Alonzo." Maybe if you follow my instructions again, you will eventually be able to make out Shelley and Lovelady walking down or across Elm Street Extension in C/D ! BTW, I'm, fairly confident that Shelley and Lovelady would have recognized Gloria Calvery, if they had encountered her. Have you found the "real" Gloria Calvery watching the motorcade down on Elm Street or on the "corner of the park" yet? Is she visible in this Wiegman clip which was stabilized by the evil evil Gerda Dunckel?: --Tommy

Dear Robert, Did I claim that Shelley said he thought the shots had come "from the west" in his affidavit? Or did you infer that? (For the umpteenth time) I said I was going from memory, and it turns out I was right. He said that in his WC testimony: Mr. BALL - Did you se the motorcade pass? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Mr. BALL - What did you hear? Mr. SHELLEY - Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together. Mr. BALL - And then? Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't think anything about it. Mr. BALL - What did it sound like to you? Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud. Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then? Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute. Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound:? Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west. Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm As regards the timing of his encounter with "Calvery" on the island, "I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn't tell where they were coming from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park ..." [emphasis added] http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/ OK, so I should have said he "suggested" or "implied" he had gone over to the island a few seconds after the final shot. It sure sounds to me as though that's what he did because 1 ) if he had waited until two or three minutes later to go there, I think he would have mentioned what he had done or seen during the intervening period of time he was (allegedly) on the steps, and 2 ) he would have said that he walked across the street instead of ran. But I'm willing to take it a "step" farther, because I don't think Shelley actually went to the "island." I think he and Lovelady started walking towards the parking lot, saw Running Woman not far from the "island," and either confused RW for Gloria Calvery, or started lying about having "encountered" Calvery, in a radically changing series of affidavits and oral testimonies, and that's what I going to continue to believe unless and until you can come up with photographic evidence indicating Calvery's or Shelley's presence on the "island," or definitive photographic proof of Lovelady's or Shelley's presence "elsewhere" in Couch / Darnell or in any other contemporaneous photos or films. Why would Shelley suddenly run across the street to the "island" two or three minutes after the final shot? Because Gloria had finally gotten there, and he saw her, and ran across to talk with her? Or do you think he went over to the "island" a few seconds after the final shot? What do you believe, anyway? --Tommy

Jon, I was kidding about Fritz. I think the old codger really was trying to help Reno Pierce back up the car to exactly the right spot, whatever that was. Regarding my own personal experiences, I fully expect a certain xxxxxxx mafia guy I know to track me down any day now, so I'd rather keep my methods and sources to myself if you know what I mean. Do I think "adventurers" have been painted falsely over the years? No I don't, Jon. I think most of us are "odd ducks" and that many, many of us have a very strong death wish. Do I "identify" with Lee Harvey Oswald? Yes, I can. Both of us. LOL --Tommy

I disagree, Robert. They could have decided to walk in that direction all by dem widdle selves. Just because they said that they had encountered Gloria doesn't prove that they actually encountered her on the "island" or on the steps, or anywhere else for that matter. Shelley said in his affidavit that he encountered her on the "island" a few seconds after the assassination. Do you think he should have said "a couple of minutes after the final shot," instead? Can you find Calvery, standing where she said she was standing on Elm Street, during the motorcade? Remember, Hicks, Reed, and Westbrook all told the FBI that they were with her, and she told the FBI that she was with them. Can you find Hicks, Reed, or Westbrook during the motorcade? If so, then you can probably find Calvery! When you do so, try to determine from the photographic record where she went after the final shot. Can you prove that way that she went to the "island" a few seconds after the final shot, or if you prefer, a couple of minutes later? Or that she went "on back up" the steps about three minutes later as Lovelady said she had? (Which do you prefer, a few seconds or a couple of minutes? Which works best for you?) How could she have motivated them to go the parking lot, anyway? Going from memory here, but didn't Shelley say he thought the shots had come from the west? If so, couldn't that (and the running policeman -- not Baker) have motivated him to walk towards the parking lot, and for Lovelady to tag along behind his supervisor? I prefer to go with what my eyes "tell" me, Robert,and my eyes can and do see Shelley and Lovelady walking / running down Elm Street Extension towards the parking lot. You know, I'm getting kinda tired of this, so I ain't gonna argue with about it no mo. I've already told you what to look for (Shelley's hairdo, Lovelady's bald forehead, etc, etc) in that part of C / D, and I've told you how to do it. I know it ain't easy because it requires watching that blown-up part of the clip in slow motion over and over again (if you can find it), and the hardest thing of all is that it requires an open mind. BTW, when are you going to tell us, in some detail, what you think Baker and Truly did for the first five minutes or so after the final shot? Thanks, --Tommy

Robert, Point taken. Edit: But I seriously doubt it. See the clip from Couch (or Darnell) Clive posted. --Tommy

standing far right and farthest back.......would look bigger if closer. ,gaal Ah, Steve. He'd look bigger if he was TALLER! Keep trying. I need the larfs! And note "Captain Dave," in his favorite, .... uhh .... formation. --Tommy