Thomas Graves

Bye bye, Steven. I've really enjoyed pointing out some of your MISTAKES. (LOL) I wish you the best. Take care. --Tommy ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Hi Dawn, I respectfully disagree. Question: If Lee Harvey Oswald and this alleged impostor didn't, as you say, "look alike enough even to be brothers", then how was the alleged impostor able to fool so many people into believing that he and the historical Lee Harvey Oswald, the man gunned down by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63, were the same person? Because the imposter told those people that his name was "Lee Harvey Oswald"? Because they were about the same height? Because they sometimes lived in the same city? Or is it possible that there was no "Harvey" and "Lee" after all, just a bunch of coincidences and misinterpreted "evidence"? --Tommy

Hi Kathy, Instead of "xxxx," is "prevaricator" okay? I mean, "prevaricator" sounds better than "xxxx," right? ( lol ) --Tommy

"Vince Morton" is a fictitious name to protect him..?. his confiding in you remains very suspicious... I have the complete list of those who attended BJHS in 53-54 and 54-55... Voebel does mention a name, but I will not post it as there appears to be some concern over it.... Not possible you got snowed David...? What do you suppose DeBrueys was doing interviewing all of Oswald's classmates from 1953-54 and 1954-55 yet only asked about the 54-55 year... and was able to write a report by Dec 2.... they gonna break the case wide open with these all important interviews after he's already dead? well understood David... if you took a moment and read the FBI interviews of Oswald's classmates you'd see that not a single one is asked about 53-54, but only 9th grade - 54-55 While those who do recall 53-54 and are shown HARVEY's picture & don't recognize him... In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange... HARVEY Oswald's records at Stripling JHS from Sept-Oct 1954 are given to the FBI... that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had attended her English classes from September, 1954 until June, 1955, And she explained she was at a loss to explain that she had no recollection of either the name OSWALD or identification of his facial. characteristics, from representations of his photographs XXXX stated that although school records indicated that she taught LEE HARVEY OSWALD, General Math during the school - - term of 1954 that she could not recall OSWALD as a pupil in her class. It appears you have much to learn about the subject matter here before you can offer "informed" opinions... It's well accepted that we all have "strong" opinions. David Josephs: From your post: "In April 1955, LEE and MO move to Exchange..." (by which you mean "126 Exchange Place", I presume). But no, that statement is incorrect. Marguerite moved to the 126 Exchange Place address in the fall of 1954, and I believe that to be true for these reasons: (1) Morton told me he first met Lee when Lee had "just moved to Exchange Place" --and that was in the fall of 1954. (2) Based on the testimony of Myrtle Evans--who said the Oswalds stayed at the St. Mary's address for six months--the move probably occurred in late summer or early fall of 1954. (3) There is important "postmark evidence" establishing that Marguerite Oswald was living at 126 Exchange Place by 10/14/54. As you know, Marguerite periodically wrote letters to her eldest son, Jon Pic, who was in the U.S. Coast Guard, and stationed on Staten Island, New York. These letters were admitted into Warren Commission evidence when Pic testified, and became the "Pic Exhibits." They are published in Volume 21 of the Warren Commission's 26 Volumes. The last letter she wrote to Pic, when she was living at the St. Mary's address, is Pic Exhibit 23-A and bears the return address of 1454 St. Mary's and is postmarked June 14, 1954. Here's the link to that exhibit (21 WCH 85): http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055a.htm The next letter she wrote to Pic is dated October 14, 1954, and the envelope, which clearly shows the postmark to be October 14, 1954, bears the return address of "126 Exchange Place." (See Pic Exhibit 24A on page 86 of volume 21). Here is the link to that exhibit (24A, at 21 WCH 86): http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055b.htm Based on the above evidence--but especially the postmark evidence on a letter written to John Pic that was obviously written by Marguerite Oswald--I think it is evident that Marguerite was living at 126 Exchange Place by October 14, 1954. Also please note: based on this evidence, I believe the Warren Report contains a significant error, in its narrative (apparently because the staff was unaware of the fall 1954 postmark evidence)--when it states (and I forget exactly where it does state this) that Lee Oswald (and his mother) didn't move to Exchange Place until 1955. Just for the record: there is no way that I "got snowed" by the person I am calling Vince Morton. He was Eddie Voebel's best friend, played in music groups with him, knew his family, etc. The reason he is not in any Beauregard J.H.S. records is that he went to a private Catholic school in the area. That school was "Our Lady Star of the Sea." From there, he went to a Catholic high school. But putting aside Vince Morton (and his recollections, as related to me in detail), I think the U.S. postmark evidence, which is on an envelope carrying a letter clearly written by Marguerite Oswald to her son John Pic, and which appears in the Warren Commission's published evidence, establishes without question where Marguerite Oswald, the mother of Lee Harvey Oswald, lived on October 14, 1954, and that address was "126 Exchange Place," in the heart of the French Quarter in New Orleans. As I say: I spent quality time with this witness, in April, 1998, visiting the area--and the various places he and Voebel hung out (the flower shop, the nearby cemetery, etc). After Hurricane Katrina, I lost track of him, and worried that he had perished in that storm. But that was not the case. In 2012, I learned that this witness had died in 2002, at age 61. As far as I know, I am the only person who interviewed who him at any length, and I have a good film and audio record. He is an integral part of understanding who Lee Oswald was--between the fall of 1954 and into the summer months of 1955 (when Lee was in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School)--which was a red-white-and blue "all American." There was no talk of communism, Marxism, or anything of the sort. And that, I believe, is one of the key values of this witness: he provides a first person account of what Lee Oswald was really like during a particularly important slice of time--from around October, 1954, and for the ensuing 10 months (approx). Of course, none of this should really surprise a close student of this case, because Lee Oswald joined the Civil Air Patrol in July, 1955, and was at that time--as his brother Robert testified--a perfectly normal and very patriotic young man. DSL 3/17/14; 2:40 AM PDT Los Angeles, California Excellent post, David Lifton. The postmarks and return addresses on Marguerite's envelopes prove that the Warren Report was wrong about where she and Lee Harvey Oswald were living during the period of time which included June 14 and October 14, 1954, a period of time so critical to the Harvey and Lee "theory." Thank you, --Tommy It's interesting that David Josephs ("last active Jul 02, 2014") decided to stop posting on this thread after this excellent post by David Lifton on March 17 ... --Tommy

Mark, You're right, of course. That's no Rambler. As to the unidentified man, he's standing on the grass at 3:46 in this frame-by-frame version of the Zapruder film. --Tommy

Bull Pucky as usual. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $200 in 1963 had the purchasing power of more than $1,500 in today's dollars. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm --Tommy

Yes, Paul, but in all fairness I haven't read the book by former CIA analyst Lattell that Carle based that statement on. But then again, even if I read it I suppose it could be argued that Lattel's book must be just chock full of disinformation, right??? Oh well, at least Carle admits that David Atlee Phillips was known as "Maurice Bishop." --Tommy

Greg, I wonder if it's true that Hemming lured Oswald into bringing his rifle to work on 11/22/63 by offering to buy it... --Tommy

David, Do you mean the tall guy with the crew cut and the tie in the background of this photo? --Tommy PS I would be interested in seeing a photo of the same guy near the east pergola after the assassination. I don't know that I've ever seen that. Can you share that with us (or refer me to it)? Thanks.

Larry, As recently as 6/10/12, Glenn L. Carle was admitting that "Maurice Bishop" was David Atlee Phillips, but he alleged claims Phillips (and the CIA) was involved in the assassination were "the products of a decades-old Cuban disinformation campaign." -- "During the 1960s, Maurice Bishop was the alias used by an infamous CIA officer in Mexico City, whom conspiracy theorists believe met Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before President John F. Kennedy was murdered in 1963. The alleged meeting is cited as clear evidence that CIA officers were somehow involved in Kennedy’s assassination. I knew Maurice Bishop, whose real name was David Atlee Phillips. A long time ago, he got me into the agency. I know for certain that the CIA did not kill President Kennedy. Yet Castro’s Secrets: The CIA and Cuba’s Intelligence Machine, a recent book by former CIA analyst Brian Lattell, has taught me many things I did not know about our shadow war against the tiny, communist nation. And it has provided context and overwhelming evidence for many of our intelligence failures vis-à-vis our Cuban counterparts. Namely, that the claims against Phillips and the CIA are the products of a decades-old Cuban disinformation campaign, and that over the past 50 years, Castro has shown himself to be among the greatest spymasters in modern history." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/10/the-evil-genius-of-fidel-castro.html --Tommy

David, I believe Hemming said he was in Florida at the time. --Tommy

Larry, You seem to have left something out of this sentence. Who are you talking about? Thanks, --Tommy

Another fascinating interview of GPH. Thanks for posting it, Greg! You briefly mentioned Chauncey Holt in it. Question: Did Hemming ever talk to you about Holt? Thanks, --Tommy

Thanks, Larry. It is encouraging to know there are researchers, such as yourself, who do not swallow everything they read, "hook, line, and sinker." Having read most of your book, I personally am starting to give more credence to the Parrot Island Incident and to the visiting of Robert McKeown by Oswald and a Hispanic by the name of Hernandez... --Tommy

You corrected the issue? You corrected the issue? You never did admit to being wrong, all you did was half-heartedly blame it on another "researcher" (Skolnick) for leading you astray. LOL --Tommy

So you've really shot yourself in the foot then, haven't you Gaal, because the link you posted shows that the car was registered to Thomas Vallee, not to Lee Harvey Oswald as you claimed! http://www.maryferre...72&relPageId=51 --Tommy PS I never claimed to have posted it first, so CONGRATULATIONS and THANK YOU SO MUCH for finding it and posting it for me! LOL

Larry, I wouldn't be surprised if Vinson's story was very sophisticated, albeit implausible, CIA disinformation. After all, he did say that he went to work for the CIA in 1965, didn't he? http://22november1963.org.uk/robert-vinson-jfk-assassination Either that, or the sad product of a deranged mind,,, Interesting that he didn't let you take him up on his offer to answer questions. --Tommy

This July 10, 2014 post by Steven Gaal was bumped by me to show that Gaal is the one who made a such a big deal out of the unsubstantiated and therefore non-credible allegation that Thomas Vallee was driving a car "registered to Lee Harvey Oswald" when arrested in Chicago. Note the huge red letters used by Gaal and the green color that Gaal applied to part of an article by Ed McCarthy to try to emphasize his point -- that "Vallee's car was registered to Lee Harvey Oswald." !!! It seems hypocritical and disingenuous of Gaal to now claim that this Thomas Vallee car registration issue is only an "inconsequential sidebar" of this thread. If it was so inconsequential, why did you express it in huge red letters and green-highlighted text, Stevie? LOL Actually, Stevie is right, in a twisted kind of way of course. Because it is inconsequential now, isn't it, Stevie? http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62272&relPageId=51 Question for Stevie Gaal: Why should any serious researcher or student of the JFK assassination take you seriously when you naively and fanatically believe and perpetuate everything you read that appears to support your theories? I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believed Robert Vinson's tale of a CIA-owned military cargo plane landing on the bank of the Trinity River to take Oswald's "double" away. If so, try reading the following with an open mind. From an article about Robert Vinson at http://22november1963.org.uk/robert-vinson-jfk-assassination : ..... JFK and the Unspeakable and Robert Vinson Robert Vinson’s story raises several questions which Douglass’s account, along with those of other commentators, does not consider: Although an expert claimed that it was possible to land a plane of the correct type on a particular area close to the Trinity River, no corroboration of the event appears to exist. One might imagine that there would be plenty of eye–witnesses to a large cargo plane landing and taking off a mile or so from downtown Dallas a few hours after the city had become the centre of the world’s attention. Not only is no corroboration cited, but JFK and the Unspeakable fails to mention any effort to find witnesses or documentary evidence to demonstrate that such an unusual event occurred. Sending a large cargo plane with distinctive markings hundreds of miles to collect one man is not the most practical or efficient way to remove a conspirator quietly from the scene of the crime. There were plenty of roads out of Dallas, and the chance of anyone getting stopped must have been insignificant. Someone who looked like Oswald would have been under no more suspicion than anyone else until about 2pm, when Oswald’s appearance became known as he was paraded through the police station. The plane is supposed to have arrived in Dallas at around 3:30pm, by which time someone escaping by car could have been far away. The Oswald double is supposed to have made his escape in no fewer than four cars, but covered only four or five miles in three hours. A Rambler station wagon took him away from Dealey Plaza; more than an hour later, a police car took him away from the Texas Theater; a few minutes later, he drove a red Falcon from an unknown location to a car park outside a restaurant; and finally, an hour and a half later, he disembarked from a jeep before boarding the plane. Although JFK and the Unspeakable is one of the better books about the assassination, its need to present a complete narrative of events has led James Douglass to include several episodes, in particular the Robert Vinson story, which may be true but which lack corroboration and hence credibility. [emphasis added by T. Graves] --Tommy expanded and bumped

Bumped to show that Gaal is the one who made a such a big deal out of the unsubstantiated allegation that Thomas Vallee was driving a car "registered to Lee Harvey Oswald" when arrested in Chicago. Note the huge red letters used by Gaal and the green color that he applied to part of an article by Ed McCarthy to try to make his point, but now claims that it was only an "inconsequential sidebar" in this thread. LOL Actually, Gaal is right, in a twisted kind of way of course. Because it is inconsequential now, isn't it, Steven? http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62272&relPageId=51 Question: Why should any serious researcher or student of the JFK assassination take you seriously when you naively and fanatically believe and promulgate everything you read that appears to support your theories? I wouldn't be surprised if you believed Robert Vinson's tale of a CIA-owned military cargo plane landing on the bank of the Trinity River to take Oswald's "double" away." If so, try reading this with an open mind: From an article about Robert Vinson at http://22november1963.org.uk/robert-vinson-jfk-assassination : JFK and the Unspeakable and Robert Vinson Robert Vinson’s story raises several questions which Douglass’s account, along with those of other commentators, does not consider: Although an expert claimed that it was possible to land a plane of the correct type on a particular area close to the Trinity River, no corroboration of the event appears to exist. One might imagine that there would be plenty of eye–witnesses to a large cargo plane landing and taking off a mile or so from downtown Dallas a few hours after the city had become the centre of the world’s attention. Not only is no corroboration cited, but JFK and the Unspeakable fails to mention any effort to find witnesses or documentary evidence to demonstrate that such an unusual event occurred. Sending a large cargo plane with distinctive markings hundreds of miles to collect one man is not the most practical or efficient way to remove a conspirator quietly from the scene of the crime. There were plenty of roads out of Dallas, and the chance of anyone getting stopped must have been insignificant. Someone who looked like Oswald would have been under no more suspicion than anyone else until about 2pm, when Oswald’s appearance became known as he was paraded through the police station. The plane is supposed to have arrived in Dallas at around 3:30pm, by which time someone escaping by car could have been far away. The Oswald double is supposed to have made his escape in no fewer than four cars, but covered only four or five miles in three hours. A Rambler station wagon took him away from Dealey Plaza; more than an hour later, a police car took him away from the Texas Theater; a few minutes later, he drove a red Falcon from an unknown location to a car park outside a restaurant; and finally, an hour and a half later, he disembarked from a jeep before boarding the plane. Although JFK and the Unspeakable is one of the better books about the assassination, its need to present a complete narrative of events has led James Douglass to include several episodes, in particular the Robert Vinson story, which may be true but which lack corroboration and hence credibility. [emphasis added by T. Graves] --Tommy

When you make garbage statements in your posts, you can expect to be challenged. Example: You said that Thomas Vallee was driving a car registered to Lee Harvey Oswald. LOL --Tommy

"NYS MVB reflect New York license plate threeone one zero RF listed to Thomas Vallee, two one three one Bond Lane, Hicksville, New York, on nineteen sixty two Ford Falcon." http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62272&relPageId=51 So,Thomas Vallee wasn't driving a car that was registered to Lee Harvey Oswald, was he, Gaal? Thomas Vallee was driving a car that was registered to Thomas Vallee. --Tommy PS "Does seem some info Car in Vallee's name" Yes, you must be dyslexic. edited and bumped so Gaal can't ignore it

Martin, Which frames do you want? How many seconds into the youtube version? --Tommy roughly 1:10-1:16 and 1:30-1;44 if this is too much let me know. thx again Yeah, Martin, too much. Sorry, --Tommy

"NYS MVB reflect New York license plate threeone one zero RF listed to Thomas Vallee, two one three one Bond Lane, Hicksville, New York, on nineteen sixty two Ford Falcon." http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62272&relPageId=51 So,Thomas Vallee wasn't driving a car that was registered to Lee Harvey Oswald, was he, Gaal? Thomas Vallee was driving a car that was registered to Thomas Vallee. D'oh. --Tommy

"Were" ??? Are you dyslectic, Gaal? And by the way, how do you know that it was a "national security issue, Gaal?" --Tommy

Martin, Which frames do you want? How many seconds into the youtube version? --Tommy