Thomas Graves

Thanks Bernice! Now, a question for all forum members: Does anyone know if the Elm Street Extention was the only way to enter and exit the parking lot by car? Thanks --Tommy

I've just read some of it near the end, and it looks like it's worthy of a bump. --Tommy

Patton Boggs is a full service law firm and lobbyist headquartered in Washington, D.C. It has more than 600 lawyers and professionals in nine locations in the United States and the Middle East. Patton Boggs specializes in litigation, public policy, business, intellectual property, international and trade law with over 200 international clients from over 70 countries. In addition to the firm's Washington, D.C. headquarters, it maintains offices in New York City, Newark, Anchorage, Dallas, Denver, Northern Virginia, Doha, Qatar and Abu Dhabi, UAE Interesting stuff, Scott! Thanks for posting it. --Tommy

Tom, Just because you and others started BSing off topic doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to respond to some of the pertinent earlier posts that are on topic and important. If you unlock the thread, I will bring up an old post that is relevant and restart the conversation on topic, and if it goes off topic, then you can hammer that person and have them start a new thread on whatever it is they want to talk about, but I think the original thread is important and has important information on it and it shouldn't be locked. There's no excuse to lock any thread. BK Bill and Scott, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. --Thomas

Mr Scully, Sorry, Tom. I really do appologize. I just don't see how most of your extremely lenghty posts on this forum relate (except perhaps very tenuously/tangentially) to the assassination of J.F.K. And they are so darn time consuming to read and make sense out of and to try to augur the "connections" to the assassination which you evidently see! (It would be nice if you could arrive at some conclusions and state them in your posts.) Carry on! Best regards, --Thomas P.S. Now, what about the reverend O.B. Graham (Sr.)? I'm sure that Tom would like to talk next about O.B. 1 Kano-be, the force is with you Tom, I am your father. (emphasis added by Thomas "Tommy O'Pepper" Michael-William Mahon-Graves) That's wonderful, Scott! But I gotta ask: Which one? LOL! Google "Tommy O'Pepper" or, if you prefer, The Amazing Adventures and Misadventures of a Surfer Dude in Paris, etc. and you'll see what I mean. Warning: just like me, it's a piece of work in progress. LOL. --Tommy

Mr Scully, Sorry, Tom. I really do appologize. I just don't see how most of your extremely lenghty posts on this forum relate (except perhaps very tenuously/tangentially) to the assassination of J.F.K. And they are so darn time consuming to read and make sense out of and to try to augur the "connections" to the assassination which you evidently see! (It would be nice if you could arrive at some conclusions and state them in your posts.) Carry on! Best regards, --Thomas P.S. Now, what about the reverend O.B. Graham (Sr.)?

NY Times July, 1968 NY Times - 21 December, 1968 Dear Mr. "A Brilliant Mind" Scully, What does all of this have to do with the assassination of JFK? Could you possibly, occasionally, please, uhh.. "get to the point"? Or would that be too simple? It's too bad you can't come up with more than you did (on another thread) regarding The Reverend Oscar Bryant Graham (Sr.), who was the reverend at, and apparently the owner of, The Abundant Life Temple in Oak Cliff on November 22, 1963... [Hint: He's the guy Jim Garrison referred to as "Obie Graham" (as in O.B. , as in Oscar Bryant) and called a National States Rights type.] --Odd Tommy

Wow, that's a great find by Robert Howard. I wonder if she took care of J.A.'s orchids at the Queen Bee? Or maybe she provided "special services" at the Go-Jo-Enkanko Special Services Hotel? --Odd Tommy

Robin, Do you happen to know if Forrest V. Sorrels is in any of these reenactment photos? Thanks, --Thomas

John, The article that Mike Hogan posted says: "In addition to documents that point to the mob's and the CIA's involvement in the Kennedy assassination,..." (emphasis added) BTW, I agree with Cliff-- what's so implausible about the mob's being involved in the assassination, given Jack Ruby's many mob connections? --Odd Tommy

Thomas, LBJ coming out of Parkland. Top photo was altered by the TV program. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/lbj.png chris Chris, Darn, that's not the photo I was think of. The photo I was referring to shows a dude who looks a lot like Boris Pash in civillian clothes, accompanying LBJ somewhere... I thought it was at Parkland Hospital. Seems to me the "Pash" figure in the photo was wearing a dark-colored suit and hat and his face was "in profile" and he was looking down as he walked. Thanks, --Odd Tommy

Well, Bill, in JFK and the Unspeakable, James Douglas writes (on page 299), "Unlike all the other planes Vinson had hitched a ride on, the C-54 bore no military markings or serial numbers. Its only identification was on its tail--a rust brown graphic of an egg-shaped earth, crossed by white grid marks." (For this, Douglas cites Johnson and Roe, Flight From Dallas, page 23.) Then, on page 302, Douglas writes, "For the last year and a half of his Air Force enlistment, Vinson served as the administrative supervisor for base supply of the CIA's SR-71/Blackbird spy plane project at Site 51 (note: Site 51 is 40 miles north of Las Vegas, Nevada)." .... "While Vinson was working at Site 51, he saw a C-54 like the one that flew the second Oswald out of Dallas. On its tail was the same rust-brown graphic of an egg-shaped earth crossed by white grid marks, that he had seen on the C-54 he had boarded at Andrews (AFB near Washington, D.C.). An Air Force sergeant at Site 51 confirmed the source of the plane he was looking at. 'CIA,' he said." --here Douglas cites Flight From Dallas, page 68, as well as "Vinson's affidavit, page 43." --Odd Tommy For an interesting article about a CIA C-54 crash in Nevada on November 15, 1955, google "CIA C-54 Crash on Mt Charleston"

I just realized this had already been established; I don't have Pictures of The Pain heres a reference http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=226563 Robert, Please tell me: Which one of the 500-plus photos listed on the Mary Ferrell document you posted is it? Thanks! --Odd Tommy

Hi Thomas, I am pretty sure the man who exited Parkland Hospital in between President Johnson and Secret Service Agent Rufus Youngblood was Forrest V. Sorrels an Agent of the Secret Service's Dallas office. Zach Thanks, Zach I can't seem to find any photographs of Forrest V. Sorrels on the Internet. If you have any photos of him, could you please post at least one of them? Thanks, --Odd Tommy

OK, no response, so... next questions!! #3) Who was the person who evidently called the DPD and advised them to go search the A.L.T. for the murderer of J.D. Tippitt? Was that person ever identified or did they ever come forward? #4) Was the man who resembled Boris Pash at Parkland Hospital ever identified? (I think he was photographed leaving the hospital with LBJ.) -more to come- --Odd Tommy

--Odd Tommy expanded and "bumped"

Thanks for responding, Greg. It's interesting to know that the CIA (and the military) would use large cargo planes to transport (even small quantities of?) "unofficial" human cargo. Now, do you know if they used military-style cargo planes exclusively for such purposes, or did they occasionally use much smaller planes, perhaps even of civilian style? What I'm wondering about here, Greg, is the strategy and feasibility (sp?) and plausibility of the CIA's using such a large, conspicuous plane as a four-engine C-54 cargo plane to land on a flood plain of the Trinity River in the suburbs of Dallas, idling, making a half-circle turn on the flood plain, picking up a couple of passengers, and taking off again. Personally, I think it is perfectly plausible because in the aftermath of the assassination, Dallasites (assuming, of course, that they were capable of interpreting their perceptions and observations in a normal, "reasonable" way) probably would have been more suspicious of a small plane's landing on the flood plain and taking off again after just a few minutes than they would of a C-54's doing the same. But perhaps I'm not being reasonable here. I'm just thinking that a large military-style plane like a C-54 would have given the impression of being on an officially-sanctioned flight as part of a legitimate respose to what had happened a few hours earlier in Dealey Plaza. (Of course, another big reason for the CIA to use a C-54 was that it did have a 4,000 mile range...) Comments, anyone? --Odd Tommy

dupe

No takers? Hmmm. Interesting. I'm a bit surprised, actally. Guess I'll just keep bumpin' 'er back to page one until I get at least one constructive/informative comment... Now regarding the whistling question, I do realize that there are two basic possibilities: 1) Craig saw LHO get into the Rambler station wagon, and 2) Craig saw someone else (who looked a lot like LHO) get into the Rambler station wagon. either LHO (or an accomplice) whistled, or the Oswald look-alike (or an accomplice) whistled, So! (to paraphrase Purvis), given the fact that most of us here already think that Craig saw an Oswald look-alike, it doesn't matter to us whether or not LHO could whistle, especially it's nearly impossible to "prove a negative" anyway. So! Sorry for the stupid question! Now, what about Vinson's story about the LHO double and the C-54 cargo plane?? Thanks, --Odd Tommy

Question #1: Could Oswald whistle loudly? Background: Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig said he heard a shrill whistle and saw a man he later identified as LHO run down the grassy knoll from the direction of the TSBD and get into a light green Rambler station wagon that was coming slowly west on Elm Street. Personally, I can't whistle like that (but I can skip a stone over a pond LOL), and I'm wondering if any of Oswald's Marine buddies or any of his family members or other friends have ever said that he was able to whistle in the way Craig describes... Question #2: If the Robert Vinson story is true, I'm wondering why the CIA used such a large plane as a four engine C-54 cargo plane to fly the Oswald look-alike from the flood plain of the Trinity River in Dallas to Roswell Air Force Base in New Mexico. Was it because of the long distnce it ended up flying from Andrews AFB near Washington D.C. to somewhere over Nebraska, then turning south towards Dallas when Kennedy was hit at 12:29 PM and and picking up the Oswald double in Dallas and taking off again and flying to Roswell AFB? I looked it up and the total distance is about 2200 miles... Couldn't a smaller plane have accomplished the same journey? Thanks, --Odd Tommy

Harry, I agree. And I don't want another ex-governor of The Independent Republic of Texas for our President, either... --Odd Tommy

Scott, Thanks for posting those photographs. --Tommy

bump with comment: As to why JFK went to Dallas, read (online) "Why JFK Went To Texas" by Joseph Backes (1999)...