Thomas Graves

...and the first repeat: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3406&view=findpost&p=240027 ...and the second repeat: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3406&view=findpost&p=240038 and the third repeat: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3406&view=findpost&p=240046 Are you working at making this, and other threads unreadable? What part of this do you not comprehend? : ....and Mr. Graves, Do not respond with a repeat of your criticism of the length of my posts; I do not requote entire, legthy posts, so as to deface a page, as has happened in this thread. Tom, I love your lenhgty (Aw heck!, I can't spell any better than you, Tom!)... I love your long, discombobulated posts. They occupy me for days at a time. You know what they say: Idle Hands Are The Tools Of The Devil (--and all his friends and acquaintences through seven degrees of separation). --Tommy

OK, Chris. MY BAD. He didn't walk up the grassy right then. But he does look likeTJM because you know he is the right size and the right age and he is a white guy wearing the same color and style of jacket as TJM and he is walking faster than the people around him and he isn't really with anyone but he is loosely surrounded by a bunch of guys in suits and he appears to be carrying an umbrella in his left hand (and, you know, you did think you'd detected the curved end of an umbrella in TJM's left hand in the parking lot)... So now I'm starting to wonder.... Hmmmm... If he WAS an assassin or an assassin's helper up there in the "sniper's lair" or over in that old truck in the background... well, I'm wondering if he could possibly have walked, with his umbrella and all, a "circuitous route" from the TSBD or where-ever to the parking lot?? And, come to think of it, the TJM in the parking lot had to enter the parking lot from somewhere else, didn't he? Unless, of course, he was one of the shooters behind the picket fence. Hmmmmmm.. I'm beginning to think that maybe this whole case is just a bunch of coincidences! --Tommy I'm leery of disagreeing with Sean because, well, he's such a clever bugger whose opinions and insights usually end up being right on the money... but to these aging, though still glasses-free eyes, the guy in the Bell footage looks shorter and has a fuller head of hair. I can't be certain the jacket is an exact match, either. Interesting observation about his relatively short stature, Greg. I have the same feeling about the Tan Jacketed guy photographed from behind standing in the crowd on the Houston Street(?) curb as the limo goes by. To me he looks shorter that the TJM dude in the parking lot... --Tommy

A mid-1960s photo of the Cuban exile pilots and their ground crew while on their mission in the Congo. Zach Two observations from the photo: There's Louie Witt's umbrella on the left, and hey!, I think I recognize some of these guys from the Robert Hughes parking lot film! --Tommy Yes, I think it might be the Dealey Plaza team - complete with umbrella - (I'm counting the spokes), and Rip Robertson's Low Beam Team - this whole story is pretty fascinating. I think everybody knew that Che and the pro-Castro Cubans were in the Congo - along with Juan Almeida - the guy who Tom Waldron said was pulling off a coup in Cuba that resulted in the Kennedy assassination; - but I didn't know the pro-Castro Cubans were there with Rip Robertson, and beat the Commies, and probably used the same B-26s and Bay of Pigs vets, and well-trained, hopped up and ready to fight - so they gave them a fight. It's also relevant in regards to the deaths of Dag Hammarskjold and Patrice Lumumba and D'Lynn Waldron's inside version that Eisenhower wouldn't deal with those he believed were commies. It's also especially revealing that the Scrips Howard News Service severely edited DLW's texts so that the real back room dealings didn't get out - and there was a false portrait drawn of what was happening there. Firmly establishing the news network as a firm arm of Mockingbird - the SHNS also comes up in other similar cases - Seith Kantor and Hal Hendrix, the reports that Castro was behind Dealey Plaza and now this. That's three strike in my book. SHNS also has something to do with the Miller Center in Virginia, where they mistranslated the JFK tapes. BK According to Douglas Valentine, the CIA station chief who submitted a list of ten CIA-acceptable QJ/WIN candidates, including Charlie Siragusa of the FBN, to ZR/RIFLE's Bill Harvey in 1960 for him to choose from, asked Harvey to ask Siragusa if he knew any black guys from the West Indies who would be good to use in "the upcoming operation" (assassinating Lumumba?). Some experts think that Siragusa was chosen by Harvey to be QJ/WIN. If so, I wonder if any of these West Indians were used in Dallas... --Tommy

OK, Chris. MY BAD. He didn't walk up the grassy right then. But he does look likeTJM because you know he is the right size and the right age and he is a white guy wearing the same color and style of jacket as TJM and he is walking faster than the people around him and he isn't really with anyone but he is loosely surrounded by a bunch of guys in suits and he appears to be carrying an umbrella in his left hand (and, you know, you did think you'd detected the curved end of an umbrella in TJM's left hand in the parking lot)... So now I'm starting to wonder.... Hmmmm... If he WAS an assassin or an assassin's helper up there in the "sniper's lair" or over in that old truck in the background... well, I'm wondering if he could possibly have walked, with his umbrella and all, a "circuitous route" from the TSBD or where-ever to the parking lot?? And, come to think of it, the TJM in the parking lot had to enter the parking lot from somewhere else, didn't he? Unless, of course, he was one of the shooters behind the picket fence. Nahh. Probably just a bunch of coincidences. --Tommy I'm leery of disagreeing with Sean because, well, he's such a clever bugger whose opinions and insights usually end up being right on the money... but to these aging, though still glasses-free eyes, the guy in the Bell footage looks shorter and has a fuller head of hair. I can't be certain the jacket is an exact match, either. Hey Greg! Thanks for the "bump" (I was needing it.) and the input, too. Maybe we can find some more photos or footage of the little weasel. I wonder if the guy walking across the grass shows up in a Cancellare or a Murray? --Tommy

A mid-1960s photo of the Cuban exile pilots and their ground crew while on their mission in the Congo. Zach Two observations from the photo: There's Louie Witt's umbrella on the left, and hey!, I think I recognize some of these guys from the Robert Hughes parking lot film! --Tommy

About what, Tommy? What you done told me about in you last post, you know, something about some highly-respected "Researcher" starting a brand new time-and-energy-wasting thread on this here Forum? You were kidding, right? --Tommy

Fascinating stuff! I really want to believe that he's a shooter or an accomplice. What about the head size? If he was backed up a couple of feet from the window frame to make his face appear so small, would that much sunlight have been falling on it? Or is the size of his head correct as it is, right up near the window? --Tommy After I processed the image, I immediately noticed that the "face" had a resemblance, including moustache, to the face of Roy Hargraves. Probably my eyes playing tricks on me again. [...] --Tommy P.S. Well, I guess this eliminates Hargraves as a TUM suspect. Hargraves probably used Hemming's scoped 30.06 breakdown Johnson for the job.

Great, Lee! What have you learned? --Tommy "The Lazy "Researcher" O'Pepper That a certain high profile researcher, who it is claimed is searching for the truth, thinks it a better use of our time to look into yellow paint than it is trying to corroborate the story of the man who says he was pumping an umbrella up and down right next to the President when he was shot and who then disappeared for 15 years. And much, much more... Nicely put! Hey, I'd make a great "straight man," wouldn't I! (Drop me a line whenever you want me to "set you up" for your brilliant, succinct, elegant, and utterly destroying critique of another "Heavyweight Researcher"! --Tommy I think this whole thread has been a "set up"... And the man that set it up has now started a new one to talk about the same issue. You gotta be kidding me! You're joking, right? --Tommy

Yes Great, Lee! What have you learned? --Tommy "The Lazy "Researcher" O'Pepper That a certain high profile researcher, who it is claimed is searching for the truth, thinks it a better use of our time to look into yellow paint than it is trying to corroborate the story of the man who says he was pumping an umbrella up and down right next to the President when he was shot and who then disappeared for 15 years. And much, much more... Nicely put! Hey, I'd make a great "straight man," wouldn't I! (Drop me a line whenever you want me to "set you up" for your brilliant, succinct, elegant, and utterly destroying critique of another "Heavyweight Researcher"! --Tommy

OK, Chris. MY BAD. He wdidn't walk up the grassy right then. But he does look likeTJM because you know he is the right size and the right age and he is a white guy wearing the same color and style of jacket as TJM and he is walking faster than the people around him and he isn't really with anyone but he is loosely surrounded by a bunch of guys in suits and he appears to be carrying an umbrella in his left hand (and, you know, you did think you'd detected the curved end of an umbrella in TJM's left hand in the parking lot)... So now I'm starting to wonder.... Hmmmm... If he WAS an assassin or an assassin's helper up there in the "sniper's lair" or over in that old truck in the background... well, I'm wondering if he could possibly have walked, with his umbrella and all, a "circuitous route" from the TSBD or where-ever to the parking lot?? And, come to think of it, the TJM in the parking lot had to enter the parking lot from somewhere else, didn't he? Unless, of course, he was one of the shooters behind the picket fence. Hmmmmmm.. Nahh. Probably just a bunch of coincidences. --Tommy

I agree 100%. Witt has nothing to do with being a witness. Why did the man not come forward in 1963 or 64? He was merely the means by which TUM could be dismissed. Maybe he was looking for his petroleum jelly? (you know, to lubricate his umbrella with?). --Tommy

Yes Great, Lee! What have you learned? --Tommy "The Lazy "Researcher" O'Pepper P.S. Don't mind me. I'm just envious.

OK Kathy. Thanks. Will do. --Tommy

Chris, You know, someone on the JFK Assassination Forum has posted a clip from the Bell film showing someone who looks a lot like Tan Jacket Man walking quickly up the grassy knoll towards the parking lot after the assassination carrying what might very well be an umbrella in his left hand. It was posted by Sean Murphy and it's on the "Hughes Parking-Lot Man in Bell Film?" thread. Have you seen it yet? I suppose I could post the link on this thread again, but what the heck, I don't think I will because I might as well as encourage everyone to either 1) read my earlier posts on this thread, or 2) go to JFK Assassination Forum and find Sean's post yourselves. You might even find something I haven't seen yet there!... --Tommy

Fascinating stuff! I really want to believe that he's a shooter or an accomplice. What about the head size? If he was backed up a couple of feet from the window frame to make his face appear so small, would that much sunlight have been falling on it? Or is the size of his head correct as it is, right up near the window? --Tommy

The way I read it is that Evan is deleting old attachments. These are photos and diagrams within some posts. It does not say that posts will be deleted. Many times, going through old threads, I have found attachments already gone, and these are not due to the forum removing them. There is limited attachment space for each member, and sometime, if one wants to put up a new attachment, one has to remove another one to make room for it. It is much better to use an outside imaging source like Photobucket to post photos. That way nothing is lost. It sure would be nice to be able to see again Larry Florer's high school graduation photo which James Richards posted for me (because I didn't know how to do it) five or six years ago which proved that Ted Shackley didn't dye his hair black and get himself arrested in the Dal-Tex building supposedly looking for a phone and calling himself "Larry Florer". The guy arrested looking for a phone was a real person named Larry Florer who had graduated from Highland Park High School in Oak Cliff. I didn't delete that post, and I doubt that James Richards did either. Thanks, --Tommy P.S. No, I don't still have it on my hard drive. It's a long story.

Hi David, Thank's for the reasoned and polite response. You're right, I did think you'd written what, it turns out, Ron Ecker had already posted. Sorry about that. As regards a better-quality clip showing the black guys' movements as well as the "late" arrival from the right of a well-dressed Latino, check out the "Hughes Parking-Lot Man in Bell Film?" thread on the "JFK Assassination Photographic & Film Evidence & Discussion and Debate" part of the JFK Assassination Forum. There's lots of good photographic stuff on Tan Coat Man and the goings-on in the parking lot there. --Tommy

I respectfully disagree. Having viewed the cropped, slow-motion version (above), as well as the un-cropped normal-speed version, I think that: Blue Coat man, seeing TJM turning to leave, instead of standing still or moving a bit to his right to get out of TJM's way and let him pass by unhindered, actually takes half a step towards TJM and leans towards him right as he's passing by. That wasn't a very nice thing for a complete stranger to do in such a crowded place was it. ) Notice how TJM quickly but gently "punches" BCM in the midsection? Was TJM just giving his Latin Lover, into whose eyes he, unfortunately, can't stand to look, a little "love punch"? Well, I suppose it's possible, just like it's possible that TJM is one of them Pickpocket Contraries I was a-telling DVP about. But it's more reasonable to assume that BCM has just opened his jacket pocket, with his out-of-view right hand, for TJM to put the black object into. It's also interesting how TJM clenches his teeth and makes those muscles pop out on the side of his face. Darn!, I knew I should have had that tooth extracted last month! Nah, imho it's more likely just an example of an Operative giving a potentially dangerous action his intense concentration in a crowded public place. You say that there is no eye contact between TJM and BCM. But would eye contact between true "Professionals" be necessary or even desirable during such a highly-visible hand off? I would think that Operatives in this situation would try to avoid direct eye contact as much as possible. Actually, they do look at each other for a couple of seconds-- TJM stares at BCM's midsection (the handoff target area) through his whole turn, while BCM gazes wistfully? at TJM's face. You suggest that TJM starts leaving because Long Coat Man shooed them away. Why would LCM do that? Those bystanders weren't interfering with the investigation. Do we see officials shooing bystanders away in any of the other films or photos taken that day? I think the police would have wanted all of the potential witnesses or perps to hang around a bit longer so they could be questioned/interviewed/interrogated. Hey, a helpful bystander might notice something and bring it to the attention of the investigators/searchers. The only incidences of "cops" or "persons of authority" shooing people away after the assassination ("Ya don't come up here now, ya hear? You just might get yourself kilt or something") was done by unidentified Mysto-Cops (who also seemed to enjoy kicking people, pointing their guns at them, and taking their cameras. You suggest (and then dismiss) a possible conspiracy scenario which incorporates the "fact" that TJM had been looking for BCM and "found" him in the parking lot. Well, I think TJM knew in advance exactly where to "find" BCM because it was all planned out ahead of time by Professionals with a capital "P". TJM and BCM and LCM were also consummate pros (as evidenced by their lack of eye contact, the almost undetectable hand off itself, etc.) Hey, I would have expected nothing less than the very best of the "crew" that Angleton and Harvey, through their FBN-based mafia contacts, would employ to hit the most powerful man in the world. You know, David, you really do have to take into consideration all the other things that are going on in this clip (un-cropped version) to make any sense out of any part of it. Kinda like playing chess, I reckon. Let's see. Hmmm... Long Coat Man gives a signal to TJM (perhaps even a signal acknowledging that he has received a signal from TJM), and then all kinds of people go into action. Hmmm... Take, for example, the black adolescent in the white shirt and tie and long light-colored raincoat (who was looking at Long Coat Man for the signal, too) and the black guys in front of and to the left side of TJM start moving and following TJM, and the black dude in the leather jacket and wearing a cap makes an arm motion to someone else off screen to the right to "come on". The three "suits" ("Who are these guys, anyway?") in the foreground walk close together in a probable attempt to shield the hand off from Robert Hughes' camera. Meanwhile,an unseen-until-now Latino wearing a dark sport coat and white shirt appears and walks up close to BCM.... And now for the $64,000 question.... If there was no hand off, then what happened to the rectangular black object that was in TJM's left hand before he "punched" BCM in the stomach? Thanks! ---Tommy bump edited and bumped --Tommy bumpkin "Well, everyman's gotta believe in something. I believe I'll go have a cigarette..." (attributed to Tommy O'Pepper, 1993)

Question: Does anyone on this thread think they're going to actually convince anyone else on this thread to change their mind about anything related to the JFK assassination? I'd rather watch wrestling on TV and I don't even have a TV. Oh well, might as well as bump it up to the top spot again. It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it. --Tommy P.S. Wow! I just noticed that two heavyweights are writing new posts for this thread as I write this! Greg Parker and David Lifton!

Sure. Why not?

I respectfully disagree. Having viewed the cropped, slow-motion version (above), as well as the un-cropped normal-speed version, I think that: Blue Coat man, seeing TJM turning to leave, instead of standing still or moving a bit to his right to get out of TJM's way and let him pass by unhindered, actually takes half a step towards TJM and leans towards him right as he's passing by. That wasn't a very nice thing for a complete stranger to do in such a crowded place was it. ) Notice how TJM quickly but gently "punches" BCM in the midsection? Was TJM just giving his Latin Lover, into whose eyes he, unfortunately, can't stand to look, a little "love punch"? Well, I suppose it's possible, just like it's possible that TJM is one of them Pickpocket Contraries I was a-telling DVP about. But it's more reasonable to assume that BCM has just opened his jacket pocket, with his out-of-view right hand, for TJM to put the black object into. It's also interesting how TJM clenches his teeth and makes those muscles pop out on the side of his face. Darn!, I knew I should have had that tooth extracted last month! Nah, imho it's more likely just an example of an Operative giving a potentially dangerous action his intense concentration in a crowded public place. You say that there is no eye contact between TJM and BCM. But would eye contact between true "Professionals" be necessary or even desirable during such a highly-visible hand off? I would think that Operatives in this situation would try to avoid direct eye contact as much as possible. Actually, they do look at each other for a couple of seconds-- TJM stares at BCM's midsection (the handoff target area) through his whole turn, while BCM gazes wistfully? at TJM's face. You suggest that TJM starts leaving because Long Coat Man shooed them away. Why would LCM do that? Those bystanders weren't interfering with the investigation. Do we see officials shooing bystanders away in any of the other films or photos taken that day? I think the police would have wanted all of the potential witnesses or perps to hang around a bit longer so they could be questioned/interviewed/interrogated. Hey, a helpful bystander might notice something and bring it to the attention of the investigators/searchers. The only incidences of "cops" or "persons of authority" shooing people away after the assassination ("Ya don't come up here now, ya hear? You just might get yourself kilt or something") was done by unidentified Mysto-Cops (who also seemed to enjoy kicking people, pointing their guns at them, and taking their cameras. You suggest (and then dismiss) a possible conspiracy scenario which incorporates the "fact" that TJM had been looking for BCM and "found" him in the parking lot. Well, I think TJM knew in advance exactly where to "find" BCM because it was all planned out ahead of time by Professionals with a capital "P". TJM and BCM and LCM were also consummate pros (as evidenced by their lack of eye contact, the almost undetectable hand off itself, etc.) Hey, I would have expected nothing less than the very best of the "crew" that Angleton and Harvey, through their FBN-based mafia contacts, would employ to hit the most powerful man in the world. You know, David, you really do have to take into consideration all the other things that are going on in this clip (un-cropped version) to make any sense out of any part of it. Kinda like playing chess, I reckon. Let's see. Hmmm... Long Coat Man gives a signal to TJM (perhaps even a signal acknowledging that he has received a signal from TJM), and then all kinds of people go into action. Hmmm... Take, for example, the black adolescent in the white shirt and tie and long light-colored raincoat (who was looking at Long Coat Man for the signal, too) and the black guys in front of and to the left side of TJM start moving and following TJM, and the black dude in the leather jacket and wearing a cap makes an arm motion to someone else off screen to the right to "come on". The three "suits" ("Who are these guys, anyway?") in the foreground walk close together in a probable attempt to shield the hand off from Robert Hughes' camera. Meanwhile,an unseen-until-now Latino wearing a dark sport coat and white shirt appears and walks up close to BCM.... And now for the $64,000 question.... If there was no hand off, then what happened to the rectangular black object that was in TJM's left hand before he "punched" BCM in the stomach? Thanks! ---Tommy bump edited and bumped --Tommy bumpkin

[quote name='James H. Fetzer' date='02 December 2011 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1322853265' Dang! Readin' this here whatchmacallit? "thread?" is more dang fun than a dad-gumm barrel o' them-there monkeys I done seen down there at the gaal-durn zoo! --Tommy O'Pepper

Beats the heck out of me, Tommy. Why don't you ask Mr Simkin? He ought to know.

Greg Burnham: Months ago, I asked, more than once, as I recall, if you believe we went to the moon. You replied that you could not provide an answer, because you had not had the time to give the matter adequate study. Perhaps the time has come for you to do so, before holding forth with multiple opinions on other matters in the Kennedy case, such as whether Steve Wittt was in Dealey Plaza, as he testified. So, Mr. Burnham—you who say you took Kennedy and what he stood for so seriously: Did we go to the moon, and multiple times? Or is all of that a fraud, and a vast media conspiracy? Inquiring minds want to know. And I do look forward to your response. DSL Great work jim, 9 links and only 2 work... David, Maybe he forgot to test them right after he posted them. "Dadgummit! All nine of them little linky things was a-working a couple a days ago!" --Tommy