Thomas Graves

Is it possible that the Oswald-Odio introduction is a part of period anti-Castro activity, but not strictly a part of the assassination planning? If not, it seems like an act of desperation, a flailing to create a confusing association for Oswald. To what end? What was wanted from Odio, and from an Oswald-Odio connection? Would an established connection bolster the image of "Oswald" as an extrapolitical nutter, willing to shoot either Castro, Walker, Nixon, or Kennedy? Putting Oswald in the company of two plotters of any stripe is enough to quash the plot's usefulness to an anti-conspiracy investigation. What, if anything, was planned for the case of an investigation intended to establish conspiracy evidence? Again, desperation is suggested, unless the Oswald-Odio introduction is just an infiltration exercise outside assassination plotting. Arguments against? Huh? --Tommy

bump; emphasis added by Tommy P.S. Gerry Patrick Hemming said that Bernardo de Torres ("Leopoldo") and Angelo Murgado ("Angel") accompanied LHO to Silvia Odio's house. He also said that BdT was run by Charlie Siragusa. P.P.S. Professor Alan Block thinks that Siragusa was QJ/WIN.

James Jesus Angleton William Harvey George White Charlie Siragusa Sam Giancana Santo Trafficante Carlos Marcello ....? --Tommy

According to Michael Cain, during 1972 and 1973 Cain was involved in the smuggling of drugs, diamonds and emeralds from Mexico to the US for Sam Giancana. The two men also opened a casino in Beirut. They also planned to build casinos in Tehran and Malta. In December 1972 Cain spent time with Giancana and Phyllis McGuire in Honolulu. In January 1973 he contacted William Roemer and told him that he had fallen out with Giancana and wanted to make contact with the FBI in Mexico City. The agent reported back to Roemer that Cain "wants to prepare reports of everything he knows about Giancana and his associates" and "that he would be able to furnish sufficient information to get an indictment for Giancana within the year". Richard Cain's specialty was bugging telephones and doing phoneline taps. Wonder if he could have been working for However, I am not convinced this row really happened as by April they were back working together. Apparently, Sam Giancana was upset when he heard about Cain's death. He told friends he was like a son to him. However, he had been in no position to protect him from the mafia. Michael Cain argues that one of the gunman was Butch Petrocelli, who was himself murdered six months later. His mouth and nose was covered with duct tape, to keep him from screaming while his face was melted with a blowtorch. The other gunman is believed to be Harry Aleman. He is also believed to be the killer of Sam Giancana. He is currently in prison for other offences. Richard Cain was a made man in the Giancana outfit who protected Sam Giancana's interests from within the Chicago Police Department. He was a Spanish-speaking Mafia/CIA phone tapping specialist and he was working for the Mexican government in Mexico City as recently as August, 1963. You know, phone tapping as in LI/ENVOY which was staffed by and monitored by Mexico's corrupt, CIA-sponsered DFS. LI/ENVOY was part of William Harvey's super secret CIA-NSA intercept program, "Division/Staff D," as was Bissell's ZR/RIFLE assassination project. I'm starting to wonder if it was Cain's (or David Christ's) voice on the Mexico City phone calls instead of Oswald's. Question: Where was Richard Cain during late September-early October of 1963? If he was in M.C., he might even have been the guy who impersonated Oswald at the Cuban and Soviet embassies... --Tommy bump

According to Michael Cain, during 1972 and 1973 Cain was involved in the smuggling of drugs, diamonds and emeralds from Mexico to the US for Sam Giancana. The two men also opened a casino in Beirut. They also planned to build casinos in Tehran and Malta. In December 1972 Cain spent time with Giancana and Phyllis McGuire in Honolulu. In January 1973 he contacted William Roemer and told him that he had fallen out with Giancana and wanted to make contact with the FBI in Mexico City. The agent reported back to Roemer that Cain "wants to prepare reports of everything he knows about Giancana and his associates" and "that he would be able to furnish sufficient information to get an indictment for Giancana within the year". Richard Cain's specialty was bugging telephones and doing phoneline taps. Wonder if he could have been working for However, I am not convinced this row really happened as by April they were back working together. Apparently, Sam Giancana was upset when he heard about Cain's death. He told friends he was like a son to him. However, he had been in no position to protect him from the mafia. Michael Cain argues that one of the gunman was Butch Petrocelli, who was himself murdered six months later. His mouth and nose was covered with duct tape, to keep him from screaming while his face was melted with a blowtorch. The other gunman is believed to be Harry Aleman. He is also believed to be the killer of Sam Giancana. He is currently in prison for other offences. Richard Cain was a made man in the Giancana outfit who protected Sam Giancana's interests from within the Chicago Police Department. He was a Spanish-speaking Mafia/CIA phone tapping specialist and he was working for the Mexican government in Mexico City as recently as August, 1963. You know, phone tapping as in LI/ENVOY which was staffed by and monitored by Mexico's corrupt, CIA-sponsered DFS. LI/ENVOY was part of William Harvey's super secret CIA-NSA intercept program, "Division/Staff D," as was Bissell's ZR/RIFLE assassination project. I'm starting to wonder if it was Cain's (or David Christ's) voice on the Mexico City phone calls instead of Oswald's. --Tommy

According to Michael Cain, during 1972 and 1973 Cain was involved in the smuggling of drugs, diamonds and emeralds from Mexico to the US for Sam Giancana. The two men also opened a casino in Beirut. They also planned to build casinos in Tehran and Malta. In December 1972 Cain spent time with Giancana and Phyllis McGuire in Honolulu. In January 1973 he contacted William Roemer and told him that he had fallen out with Giancana and wanted to make contact with the FBI in Mexico City. The agent reported back to Roemer that Cain "wants to prepare reports of everything he knows about Giancana and his associates" and "that he would be able to furnish sufficient information to get an indictment for Giancana within the year". Richard Cain's specialty was bugging telephones and doing phoneline taps. Wonder if he could have been working for However, I am not convinced this row really happened as by April they were back working together. Apparently, Sam Giancana was upset when he heard about Cain's death. He told friends he was like a son to him. However, he had been in no position to protect him from the mafia. Michael Cain argues that one of the gunman was Butch Petrocelli, who was himself murdered six months later. His mouth and nose was covered with duct tape, to keep him from screaming while his face was melted with a blowtorch. The other gunman is believed to be Harry Aleman. He is also believed to be the killer of Sam Giancana. He is currently in prison for other offences. Richard Cain was a made man in the Giancana outfit who protected Sam Giancana's interests from within the Chicago Police Department. He was a Mafia/CIA phone tapping specialist and he was working for the Mexican government in Mexico City as recently as August, 1963. You know, phone tapping as in LI/ENVOY which was staffed by and monitored by Mexico's corrupt, CIA-sponsered DFS. LI/ENVOY was part of William Harvey's super secret CIA-NSA intercept program, "Division/Staff D," as was Bissell's ZR/RIFLE assassination project. I'm starting to wonder if it was Cain's (or David Christ's) voice on the Mexico City phone calls instead of Oswald's. --Tommy

I was just theorising that it may be the same "Hatman" figure, as he has become commonly known, that you discovered in Moorman. It's interesting that both Bond4 and Moorman5 show a hat being worn there. Isn't that where Malcolm Summers says he encountered a well-dressed man who had a pistol and was wearing a hat? I wouldn't be surprised if it was Long Coat Man or one of his Long Coat-Wearin' colleagues. --Tommy

Bill, There have been some possible sightings of both of them. Cancellare_7 for Blue Coated Cuban-Looking Guy and the Bell film for TJM walking across the grass on the south side of Elm Street. The Bronson film possibly shows TJM standing in the crowd on Houston Street(?) with his back to the camera as the limo passes by. I highly suggest people take a look at the thread Hughes Parking-Lot Man in Bell Film? (among others) on the JFK Assassination Forum. I wish I'd starting going to that forum a long time ago (in conjunction, of course, with the good old JFK Assassination Debate)! --Tommy

Fascinating, Tom. Keep up the good work. --Tommy

Yes, David, it would be nice if Christian would weigh in on this. --Tommy Big Frame-by-frame Breakdown of Tan Jacket Man In The Parking Lot clip (plus the film clip itself). Great work by Greda Dunkel at the JFK Assassination Forum! http://www.iimmgg.com/image/fc9a54c65c1b3241a5de760d5ce1a9de --Tommy [...] edited and bumped bumped again because I want everyone to be aware of Greda Dunkel's link

Prior to the Long coat/ TJM/Signal, the IBM looking guy with glasses seems to be in more of a hurry to take his 2 friends in front of TJM Nice catch, Ian. But we've got to be careful. Members who think it was just a coincidence will start thinking that we're Conspiracy Theory Nuts or something. LOL --Tommy Thomas, I don't necessarily think the actions you have alluded to, are coincidences. But, your original discovery that TJM hands something off with his left hand is still in doubt to me. Did TJM have more than one item in his left hand when he made the exchange? Did he receive something in the transfer? What ends up in his left hand? Why risk an exchange with multiple items in hand? At the beginning of the clip, the item in hand appears dark, is a shadow causing this? When in the end, a lighter object is what I see. Just some troubling questions for me. chris Chris, They are troubling questions for me as well. Maybe we will never know the answers. I do know one thing for sure. Something "fishy" is happening. The fact that Blue Coated Cuban-Looking Man takes a half step towards TJM and leans towards him, as well, has got to be more than just a coincidence. Also interesting is the fact that another Latino (in dark sports coat and tie) walks up close to BCC-LM towards the end of the film clip... --Tommy

Kathy, I'm not sure what kind of car the green one is, but I know it's not a Rambler because it has those fins sticking out to the side. I do know that on the right side of the photo in the background there is a Rambler station wagon with its four headlights on and a Long Coated Man passing by its driver's side. --Tommy

Lee, Just think-- If there weren't so damn many problems with this case, it migh even have been solved by now! The very fact that there are so many "problems" suggests to me that there was a very large and nearly-perfect conspiracy. The conspirators (before, during, and after the assassination) were very good at obsfcating, distorting, and, in many cases, conjuring up the "facts" of the case so that we would run around in circles like a dog chasing its tail (or a shadow of its tail!) for nearly fifty years now! I'm optimistic, however, because I feel we've made some progress during the past couple of weeks. I know I have. --Tommy

Yes, David, it would be nice if Christian would weigh in on this. --Tommy Big Frame-by-frame Breakdown of Tan Jacket Man In The Parking Lot clip (plus the film clip itself). Great work by Greda Dunkel at the JFK Assassination Forum! http://www.iimmgg.com/image/fc9a54c65c1b3241a5de760d5ce1a9de --Tommy [...] edited and bumped

Yes, David, it would be nice if Christian would weigh in on this. --Tommy Big Frame-by-frame Breakdown of Tan Jacket Man In The Parking Lot clip (plus the film clip itself). Great work by Greda Dunkel at the JFK Assassination Forum! http://www.iimmgg.com/image/fc9a54c65c1b3241a5de760d5ce1a9de --Tommy Prior to the Long coat/ TJM/Signal, the IBM looking guy with glasses seems to be in more of a hurry to take his 2 friends in front of TJM Nice catch, Ian. But we've got to be careful. Members who think it was just a coincidence will start thinking that we're Conspiracy Theory Nuts or something. LOL --Tommy

Yes, David, it would be nice if Christian would weigh in on this. --Tommy Big Frame-by-frame Breakdown of Tan Jacket Man In The Parking Lot clip (plus the film clip itself). Great work by Greda Dunkel at the JFK Assassination Forum! http://www.iimmgg.com/image/fc9a54c65c1b3241a5de760d5ce1a9de --Tommy

Frantz, Here's a capture and enlargement of one frame, compliments of Chris Davidson: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/2-2.png Please visit my thread "Tan Jacket Man Secretively Hands Something To Blue Coated Cuban-Looking Guy In The Parking Lot" to see more images and links to images. If you can, please look at the slow motion film of this incident. The real issue is whether or not Tan Jacket Man handed off a small black object to Blue Coated Cuban-Looking Man. (Anyone recognize the coat-and-tie-wearing Latino dude at he far right in the above photo?) Thanks, --Tommy

I don't think I've seen the third photo. Is there a link or can you post it? Hi Ron, Here are the other two photos. These are on Robin Unger's great website. Murray Scan ( Higher Resolution ) -- The two men are seen behind and to the right of the women crying next to the man in the hardhat, presumably looking up at the "sniper window." Cancellare Credit: ( Lee Forman ) Ebay Purchase -- The two men stroll through the grass on the right. There are many interesting people in this photo. Zach I agree, totally. Has the man in the dark sport coat and tie and sunglasses walking by himself with one hand in his pocket on the right side of the photo about three feet from the near curb ever been identified? (whew!) --Thomas

Christian, When you get some free time (LOL), would you please apply your process to the photographic "captures" (stills), taken from the Robert Hughes film, which show Tan Jacket Man apparently handing off something to the guy I call "Blue Coated Cuban-Looking Man" in the parking lot? Chris Davidson has done some work on it and believes he's found the curved end of an umbrella handle in TJM's left hand immediately after the putative "hand off". I'm convinced that the handing off of a small back object from TJM to BCC-LM did take place, but so far I've been unable to convince anyone that I'm right... Thanks, --Tommy P.S. Keep up the good work! P.P.S. Anyone else out there want to take a shot at it? (John Dolva?)

connection problem... dupe

connection problem... dupe

About what, Tommy? What you done told me about in you last post, you know, something about some highly-respected "Researcher" starting a brand new time-and-energy-wasting thread on this here Forum? You were kidding, right? --Tommy I was talking about two different researchers and I never mentioned anything about "highly respected." Lee, Points taken. I should have said "a not-very-highly-respected but nevertheless high profile researcher". And that it's an unbelievable ("You're joking, right?") shame that anyone would start a time-consuming new thread that serves as a soapbox for him or her to verbalize a lot of malarkey and encourage others to do the same.,, --Tommy

Yes, David, it would be nice if Christian would weigh in on this. --Tommy

[quote name='Thomas Graves' date='04 December 2011 - 06:40 AM' timestamp='1322977202' According to Douglas Valentine, the CIA station chief who submitted a list of ten CIA-acceptable QJ/WIN candidates, including Charlie Siragusa of the FBN, to ZR/RIFLE's Bill Harvey in 1960 for him to choose from, asked Harvey to ask Siragusa if he knew any black guys from the West Indies who would be good to use in "the upcoming operation" (assassinating Lumumba?). Some experts think that Siragusa was chosen by Harvey to be QJ/WIN. If so, I wonder if any of these West Indians were used in Dallas... --Tommy bump