James DiEugenio

No, no. As I recall it, Wayne was one of the very few people running AWAY from the scene. One or two witnesses thought this was suspicious. And they thought they saw a piece of a metallic object wrapped in a poster he was carrying so someone yell to stop that man. Someone tackled him and he was then arrested by security guard. To say the least, Michael Wayne is a very suspicious character.

Sandy: Sometimes FC is cognitively challenged. You know, all that critical thinking gets to you. He ignores all the things I said that make this documentary not trustworthy. And then he says trust it anyway. David Josephs explains why the two girls on the bus down cannot be taken at face value. And I linked to his essay showing why. Everyone knows that in the declassified HSCA interview Duran said that the man was about 5' 5" tall. And I already noted that. Now, because this show does not include this information and essentially goes by the WC version, FC wants us to buy into it. You know, that critical thinking of his.

No, not quite that long. But it was well over 600 pages. But I did actually write an intro that is billed on the cover. Had to go through it three times until Lisa approved the last version.

BA: There were three people who taped it. One was Len Osanic. He played one of his tapes, that of David Josephs, about ten days ago. I think he will be playing them one by one over time. Max Good also taped it, he may put his on Vimeo. I will let you know if he does. PS: Robert, that article was written by John Newman in 2003.

First of all, this was not a 2013 Frontline documentary FC. It was a repeat of the 1993 PBS documentary Who was Lee Harvey Oswald? This documentary was produced by its two lead consultants, Gus Russo and Dale Myers. And if that is not enough, how about this: Dale Myers always said that they did not go into this with a point of view. They were going to let the chips fall where they may. HA HA HA! Well when the Frontline producer Mike Sullivan died, Myers noted his death and finally spilled the beans on his own BS. He said Sullivan had decided at the start that Oswald was the chief and only suspect and that is what they would use as their investigative guideline. So how can one trust a guy like that, plus Mr. Single Bullet fact Dale Myers, and Russo? The only thing this show really did for the good is that it showed the photo of LHO and Ferrie at the CAP cookout. The picture that Ferrie was frantically looking for in the days after the assassination. So he could lie his head off to the FBI about not knowing Oswald. But Russo and Myers and Sullivan left all that out. This show marked two milestones. First, that PBS was now in the pocket of the Power Elite, at least on the JFK case. If you recall, PBS later went on to do that horrendous Cold Case Nova program. Which tells us about their funding problems ever since the Reagan years. And second, with it, Russo and Myers now proved they could be trusted by the MSM as cover up artists and they went on to future employment for anniversary specials e.g. Peter Jennings and Tom Brokaw. I mean c'mon, a jerk like Epstein who says that Oswald joined the Marines so he could get a gun? I mean, when you are getting your butt hand to you, you get desperate right FC?

There is a reverse angle to that picture which Gil Jesus always shows. DVP does not. The point is this about the WC and the lie about the autopsy photos. The Commission tried to keep this a secret. Not even the staff lawyers knew about it. (Although Specter did see one or two photos from Elmer Moore who ended up being Warren's assistant.) But not only does it belie what Ford said, it also belies the complaint these guys would always offer: well we did not have the autopsy materials. Yes they did. McCloy was one of the worst on this. But he knew they did. The other thing is, they would blame the Kennedy family on this issue, when in fact the deed of gift had not even been signed at that time. In reality, the Secret Service had control of the materials. Now, one thing that was accomplished by doing this trickery is that it made it easier for Specter to complete his cover up on the medical evidence. We know from the Law book that Specter almost automatically threw out anything he knew would scuttle the Single Bullet Fantasy or the two shots from the rear scenario e.g. the Burkley death certificate, the testimony and reporting of SIbert and O'Nneill. Well, by keeping the autopsy materials away from him that made his job job much easier. As the photos above suggest.

I guess I have a different take on this than most people here. I personally do not think that Hoover was a part of the plot myself. The actual plotters would know upon past performance that he would willingly go along with this. For more than one reason. 1. Since Oswald was an FBI informant, he would have had to cover up who Oswald was. The late reporter Jim Phelan was a lying, two faced FBI toady, but in an unguarded moment he once told writer David Chandler that he was in Hoover's office a couple of days after the assassination and got the distinct impression that Hoover was ordering all FBI internal files on Oswald incinerated. 2. No Attorney General ever made Hoover do the things that RFK did. Including going along, however halfheartedly, with his civil rights program. Within days of the assassination, Hoover ripped out Bobby's private line into his office. 3. Since Hoover was good buds with LBJ, and he saw that Johnson was using the whole atomic holocaust excuse to keep everything under wraps, he realized heck, the fix is in. Swim with the tide. 4. Hoover did not give a damn about JFK personally. Which is why, that Saturday, he was at at the track. After all, he knew he was going to be fired in a Kennedy second term. 5. Hoover was an expert at faking evidence and getting his agents to go along with both that, and presenting perjured testimony in high profile cases. In The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, I spend about three pages going through examples of this kind of flim flammery, which dates back to the Palmer raids. (See pages 237-40) Recall what Nixon said about the Hiss case: we built the typewriter. That is not all the FBI did in that case. There are three strong indications by Hoover himself that he understood what he was doing with the cover up. There are two that come from from private interviews with personal acquaintances. (Ibid, p. 246) Plus the marginalia he wrote up about how the CIA had handed him a snow job about Oswald being in Mexico City. But there is also what FBI agent Bill Turner said while working on an article about the JFK case. Some agents still there gave him some documents and Turner easily understood that the fix was in. He told me there are three steps in any FBI inquiry: collection of all relevant leads, the following through of those leads to their ultimate ends, and the garnering of all info into a report that did not adjudicate. Turner said it was obvious that step 2 was not done in this case. And without that, you could not perform step 3. But he said what made that worse was the fact that in this instance, the FBI actually did decide on a verdict anyway! To him that was the dead giveaway that this got the OK from on high. Even the WC was shocked by this. As Turner told me, FBI agents do not act like this unless Hoover and Tolson wanted them to.

Ron: What about the most important part of the book? My introduction!?

Its hard to believe how much baloney that DVP can get into one post. The Warren Commission did have the autopsy materials. In one of the executive sessions, McCloy asks about this point. Rankin replies that they have them for the Commission only in a room off the hall. This point is also acknowledged in the McKnight book. (This is the kind of research that this guy does.) All of this makes this lie even worse.

Let me also add, as bad as David has shown to be Oswald's alleged ride down to Mexico City, the journey back is, in my view, even worse.

David is demonstrating why Duran was so dangerous to the official story. I think this is why she was arrested so soon after the murder. I also think that this is why Echeverria was not going to let the WC interview her in MC. He basically blew them off when they asked to talk to her. It has taken all these years, and all these declassifications to even get the broad outline of what happened in Mexico into some kind of defined portrait. But finally it appears that the CIA turned over the job of manufacturing a phony LHO trail to Ochoa and Echeverria. It was a trail so diaphanous that the FBI could not touch it since that would have meant upsetting the whole apple cart.

In that vein, here is a priceless story. When RFK was hitting up corporations for money for his Bed Stuy restoration project, he called this one business executive and asked for some big bucks. They guy said, words to the effect: Senator, if I went into my board room this afternoon and said we are making a six figure donation to renovating the Bedford Stuyvesant area because Bobby Kennedy asked me to, they would have me committed. True story. Can't you just hear RFK chuckling after that?

Pretty easy. Compare what Hernandez did with the witnesses he polygraphed who indicated a conspiracy--Serrano and Fahey-- versus what he did with Wayne, who was really a suspect. I mean how do you get more suspicious than that guy? And then Wolfer becomes president of Ace, and then Hernandez retires four years later and runs Inter Con. BTW, that company has contracts with many municipal entities in Los Angeles, like court houses and ticket paying kiosks and windows. Did she add where Hernandez was living last? San Marino, which has a higher per capita income than Beverly Hills. Try and find an apartment house there. Hernandez did well after covering up the not so open and shut case.

John thinks its Markel. And Markel had volunteered his services to kill Lumumba. But then when Justin Odonnell agreed to supervise the CIA operation the whole modus operandi changed. So Markel was not used.

That is interesting Karl. Since Rocca worked so closely with Jim A, I would have thought he leaned toward a KGB plot.

Every once in awhile I have to thank Davey. Please, enough is enough.

FC was losing the argument. he throws in one reference to 9-11 and now we have a free for all on that subject on a JFK forum. Nice going FC.

In other words, the only extant picture we have to go with the visa app is this one?

Paul: I think that the WC discounted the Odio story for that reason. It was too much of a live lead. It would have gone back to New Orleans.

Ron, to get back on subject, Phillips started smoking 2-3 cigarettes when Dan presented him with a chart showing that each one of the people who reported that there was a Castro or Soviet connection to Oswald in MC e..g. Alvarado. It turned out each of these people was some kind of propaganda asset to Phillips. (Fonzi, The Last Investigation, p. 293)

Did the DPD also have the visa application? I am trying to figure if there is any possibility that the application was ever with another photo? Did we not get this from Cuba?

Yes Denny, that is accurate. I think the real story is the opposite. There was no LHO in MC, and he was at Odio's. BTW, isn't FC a real piece of cake. He does not know that the whole equipment malfunction excuse was used by Phillips. It was later exposed in the Lopez Report as a deception. This was one of the reasons why Danny and Eddie drew up a bill of indictment for Phillips. Always nice to see FC side with a perjurer.

So that is in block letters also. Hmm So David, is that the only picture with LHO in sweater and tie that ever accompanied the visa application? Do we know that for a fact?

And to me, that is just so incriminating. Because now we have the immediate photo bank check forms which were just declassified as far as I know in October of 2017. They literally say, words to the effect, no picture of Oswald. Now, with no picture of Oswald, and no audio tape of Oswald, what are we supposed to think?

FC: I guess you are asleep at the switch again. The title of this thread is Oswald was not in MC. I was looking for the Visa Application in full if David has it. I wish he would post it.