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Everything posted by Cliff Varnell
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Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
On the day before the BOP landing, JFK put the kibosh on US air strikes in support. Harriman-protege Bissell bitched about it to Lovett-selected Sec of State Rusk. Rusk offered to connect Bissell directly to the Boss. In Denial, pg 204: While purely speculative, any telephone dialog which could have occurred between Bissell and the president would have had to cover some very dicey issues in respect to Kennedy’s orders — including the fact that the complexity of the amphibious landing, the Navy landing craft involved, and the quantity of tanks, trucks and a massive amount of cargo had actually precluded any real chance of completing the landing and withdrawing all ships (including the command LCI’s) by dawn. The true extent of the remaining Cuban air threat would have also had to be disclosed, no doubt raising further questions of the plans for resupply of the beachhead over the longer term, which involved extensive flights out of the Nicaraguan base, something which would almost certainly demonstrate American involvement. The issue of the contingency plans for guerrilla action or even re-landing the force, directed as backup options by the president, might also have been raised by President Kennedy. If that sort of dialog had occurred there is certainly a possibility that the president might have aborted the landing, as he had continually reserved the right to order. At the point in time when Bissell and Cabell determined not to talk to President Kennedy the landing force was still some two to two and a half hours from its scheduled deployment off the transports. </q> Looks like it was a lot more important for Zapata to proceed than succeed. For Bissell, anyway. And Joe Kennedy? “Lucky thing they were found out early.” -
Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
In Denial, pg 52: <q> The dramatic failure of the CIA’s thirteen-month Cuba Project immediately brought into question the planning, practices, tools and the decision making associated with American covert operations in progress around the world. </q> The 1956 Bruce-Lovett Report: <q> [T]he increased mingling in the internal affairs of other nations of bright, highly graded young men who must be doing something all the time to justify their reason for being. ... Busy, moneyed and privileged, [the CIA] likes its "King Making." responsibility (the intrigue is fascinating -- considerable self-satisfaction, sometimes with applause, derives from "successes" -- no charge is made for "failures" -- and the whole business is very much simpler than collecting covert intelligence on the USSR through the usual CIA methods!)... Should not someone, somewhere in an authoritative position in our government on a continuing basis, be . . . calculating . . . the long-range wisdom of activities which have entailed our virtual abandonment of the international "golden rule," and which, if successful to the degree claimed for them, are responsible in a great measure for stirring up the turmoil and raising the doubts about us that exist in many countries of the world today? . . . Where will we be tomorrow?” </q> https://cryptome.org/0001/bruce-lovett.htm#schlesinger -
Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Perhaps he got a better offer — one he couldn’t refuse. -
Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Larry, your work is vastly appreciated. My critique of the JFKA Critical Community does not extend to you. The “street” in me can absolutely see in the BOP an operation to take out Allen Dulles. Joe Kennedy soon after the BOP: . "I know that outfit, and I wouldn't pay them a hundred bucks a week. It's a lucky thing they were found out early." https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/bay-of-pigs-invasion-kennedys-cuban-catastrophe/ <quote on> That the United States had been behind the operation was soon reported by the press and revealed in the United Nations. Unaccustomed to setbacks in what had so far been a charmed political life, Kennedy was devastated by the Bay of Pigs disaster. An adviser who peeped into the White House bedroom as the operation was failing observed JFK crying in the arms of his wife Jackie. He called his father for advice every hour, yet did not receive the paternal support he had anticipated. “Oh hell,” Joseph Kennedy told his son,“if that’s the way you feel, give the job to Lyndon [Vice President Johnson].” <quote off> Joe Kennedy thought it was a lucky thing. He would have known... -
Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Doesn’t the dirty end of the incompetence stick also point to Foggy Bottom, the Pentagon, the National Security Council and the Oval Office? Rusk bitched about the size of the project right up to the meeting where the plan was green-lit and he went along. Bissell did well after the BOP. His wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Bissell_Jr. As a face-saving exit from the CIA, John F. Kennedy offered Bissell the post as director of a new science and technology department. This would leave him in charge of the development of the Lockheed A-12, the new spy plane that would make the U-2 obsolete. Bissell turned down the offer and in February 1962 he left the Central Intelligence Agency and was replaced as head of the Directorate for Plans, by Richard Helms. Bissell became head of the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) in 1962. IDA was a Pentagon think tank set up to evaluate weapons systems. Later he worked for United Technologies in Hartford, Connecticut (1964–74), which supplied weapons systems. He also worked as a consultant for the Ford Foundation. </q> -
Morley: CIA Resentment Toward JFK After BoP
Cliff Varnell replied to Benjamin Cole's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Looks like Richard Bissell actively sought the failure of the BOP. Why would he ignore the lack of air cover after the D-Day-2 failure to take out Castro's Air Force, and ignore the lack of preparation for a “popular uprising” — both required for success? Tapped for Skull & Bones during his senior year at Yale, Bissell turned them down. He started his gov’t career as a protege of W. Averell Harriman (Skull & Bones, Brown Brothers Harriman). During Eisenhower’s second term, Joe Kennedy and Robert Lovett (Skull & Bones, Brown Brothers Harriman) tried to get Ike to fire Dulles. https://cryptome.org/0001/bruce-lovett.htm Harriman was a big supporter of Dulles, having once hired both Dulles brothers as “his lawyers,” according to Harriman’s biography. Upon JFK’s election, Joe advised his son to give Lovett any cabinet post he wanted. Lovett wanted to stay in the “kitchen cabinet” and recommended Dean Rusk for State, McGeorge Bundy (Skull & Bones) for National Security Advisor, Robert McNamara for Defense, and C Douglas Dillon for Treasury. Are we to believe Joe Kennedy and Robert Lovett forgot about their desire to get rid of Dulles after taking power? I’m convinced the murder of Patrice Lumumba in the Congo three days before the Inauguration cost Dulles Harriman’s support. Looks to me like the real object of the BOP was to get rid of Dulles, not Castro. -
Okay. From the ARRB testimony of James Sibert, emphasis added: <q> But when they raised him up, then theyfound this back wound. And that's when they started probing with the rubber glove and the finger, and - and also with the chrome probe. And that's just before, of course, I made this call, because they were at a loss to explain what had happened to this bullet. They couldn't find any bullet. And they said, 'There's no exit." Finck, in particular, said, "There's no exit." And they said that you could feel it with the end of the finger - I mean, the depth of this wound. </q> Paul O’Connor’s statement to William Matson Law: <q> O’Connor: So we used a malleable probe and bent it a little bit and found out that the bullet entered the body, went through the intercostal muscles--the muscles in between the ribs. The bullet went in through the muscles, didn't touch any of the ribs, arched downwards, hit the back of the pleural cavity, which encases the lungs, both front and back. It bounced off that cavity and stopped. It actually went down and stopped. Went through the ribs and stopped. So we didn't know the track of the bullet until we eviscerated the body later. That's what happened at that time. We traced the bullet path down and found out it didn't traverse the body. It did not go in one side and come out the other side of the body. Law: You can be reasonably sure of that? O'Connor: Absolutely. </q> O’Connor never claimed a bullet was recovered from the back wound. There is value in repetition — JFK suffered two wounds in soft tissue with no exits and no bullets recovered from those locations during the autopsy. One trick pony? Better that than a horse’s ass.
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O’Connor said a bullet was removed from the back or throat wound? Okay. Why don’t you provide the quote? The assertion is yours — back it up, dude. Since the back wound was probed and found shallow, when during the autopsy was a bullet removed from the back or throat? I’ve made a well supported case that W. Averell Harriman was the CEO of the assassination. I’ll be more than happy to stand corrected if you climb off your high horse and provide the O’Connor quote. Thanks for the lecture. How about a quote from O’Connor? How many times was he shot in the head? Once? Twice? Thrice? Have at it, Bugs. Show some integrity and provide the O’Connor quote. You’re projecting. Please provide the statements of these individuals regarding a bullet recovered from the back during the autopsy. I was discussing the very possible use of blood soluble rounds in the JFKA. It’s a scenario suggested by the autopsists during the autopsy. That technology was developed at Fort Detrick for the CIA operation MKNAOMI. It’s the only hard lead in the case.
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There was no bullet recovered from either the back or throat wounds. Where did he say a bullet was recovered from the back or throat? I’ll leave the head wound(s) rabbit holes to others. You’ve clearly mis-understood, David. I thought it was clear I was referring to the shallow wounds in soft tissue in the back and throat.
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There’s the pooh-pooh! I knew ya had in ya, Ben. You have to witness bash—they didn’t confirm your Pet Theory. Dr. David Mantik verified the authenticity of the cervical x-ray, which shows a hairline fracture in the right T1 transverse process and an airpocket overlaying the T1/C7 TPs. Consistent with the Autopsists Scenario of a high tech ambush.
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That’s Ben Cole making faces and doing a pooh. This is what I find mystifying. All I do is point out statements in the historical record — interviews with FBI guys Sibert and ONeill — reporting what the autopsists said the night of the autopsy. What does that have to do with me? I’ve seen this for twenty years. There’s a theory in the historical record directly relating to the murder — and I own that because I point it out?
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Ron Johnson Floats JFK Assassination Conspiracy Theory
Cliff Varnell replied to W. Niederhut's topic in Political Discussions
Biden voted against the first Iraq War, opposed the NATO operation in Libya, pulled US troops out of Afghanistan, curtailed the Bush/Obama/Trump drone bombing campaign. I find the blanket demonization of Democrats ahistorical. -
Ron Johnson Floats JFK Assassination Conspiracy Theory
Cliff Varnell replied to W. Niederhut's topic in Political Discussions
126 House Democrats voted NAY in 2002. -
Pro-Trump counties continue to suffer far higher COVID death tolls https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties-continue-to-suffer-far-higher-covid-death-tolls Biden Counties Continue to Have Higher Vaccination Rates Compared to Trump Counties, As the Omicron Variant Surges Across the U.S. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/biden-counties-continue-to-have-higher-vaccination-rates-compared-to-trump-counties-as-the-omicron-variant-surges-across-the-u-s/
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"Evidence" that was never identified
Cliff Varnell replied to Gil Jesus's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Okay! Now that that’s been settled for the umpteenth time, let’s reiterate: JFK had a shallow soft tissue wound to the right of T3, and a soft tissue wound in his throat no exit. What kind of firearm leaves shallow wounds in soft tissue? I’ll give my favorite charity (Tami the Street Sheet Lady) a buck for every time this question is asked at any of the events surrounding the 60th.