Cliff Varnell

Another trivia question: how many times did the Russia-hacked-the-DNC-e-mail story make the cable news cycle over the last 70 days of the 2016 campaign?

No, that was the Podesta e-mail drop on Oct. 7. William is correct: Comey re-opened the phony Clinton e-mail investigation on Oct. 28, and for 11 straight days cable news featured Trump bashing Hillary, Trump surrogates bashing Hillary, TV pundits bashing Hillary, and during commercial breaks Trump ads bashing Hillary. Isn’t the Deep State supposed to have been opposed to Trump? The fact is they installed him.

I have a trivia question for you: over the last 11 days of the 2016 prez campaign one story totally dominated the cable news cycle — Fox, CNN, MSNBC. Do you know what that story was?

HSCA Appendix to Hearings - Volume XII You lose the ability to read when you’re under stress? Typical Trumper. All insult no point. I’ll accept your apology. All I said was I have an old friend who went Q. The “ether of your imagination” has the best of you. How would you know what the US media says?

More all cap shrieking. https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0006a.htm http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html?m=1 Desperation is an odiferous perfume, is it not?

And like all Trumpers you just make stuff up. I never said anything about Louis Witt. Rosemary Willis backs his account: she said Witt was more pre-occupied with his umbrella than watching the parade. Free Louis Witt! The “ice bullet” scenario started with Humes, Boswell and Finck the night of the autopsy when they were at a loss to explain a shallow back wound with no bullet. If you don’t know who they are, look them up. My bets are on Black Dog Man. Willis testified to the HSCA that the figure behind the pergola wall was “conspicuous” and then “disappeared in an instant.”

The first shot hit him in the throat, after which he acted paralyzed. Occam’s Razor: he acted paralyzed because he WAS paralyzed, consistent with the blood soluble flechettes developed at Fort Detrick for the CIA. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_1_Colby.pdf https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

You’re familiar with a video, but unless you’ve spent time in the area you really don’t know it.

Civilian casualties were down 85% under Zelensky. The claim of Zelensky conducting genocide is a lie. So when the people fight back they take 85% fewer casualties? How does that work? You don’t know anything about me. All I did was state a fact and present the receipts. No, I said people like you could do us all a favor and STFU about places about which y’all know dick. Like Berkeley. In one post you’re a stickler for accurate quoting — but in this post you range far afield from what I wrote. I was agreeing with Ben’s characterization of Berkeley as the home of many unorthodoxies. Ben cited an example, and I cited an example. Any problem with that is all yours. If you aren’t familiar with a place and it’s people you could do us all a favor and STFU.

Oh no, no you told me not to, remember? Had to go down to the Henderson Public Library in disguise so they wouldn’t throw me out like last time.

I think the folks reading this thread can see I didn’t say anything about Azov. They quoted, without attribution, Lula denouncing Zelensky’s genocide in the Donbas. Are you so suffused with confirmation bias you can’t follow your own cite? It shows civilian casualties greatly reduced under Zelensky. So said the “reluctant fan” of Putin’s mass slaughter.

https://throughtheoswaldwindow.com/articles/dr-david-mantik/ Mantik: No bullet struck JFK in the back—or in the throat. The Single Bullet Theory is nonsense. The (superficial) back wound was likely caused by metallic shrapnel. On the subject of JFK’s back wound Mantik and Speer take turns driving the Clown Car. JFK had a shallow wound in soft tissue between his Third Thoracic vertebrae and the upper margin of his right shoulder blade. SS SA Glen Bennett described seeing the shot, in the location of the bullet holes in the clothes. No 6.5mm Full Metal Jacket bullet is going to leave a shallow wound in soft tissue. The night of the autopsy, Humes & Co. wondered if JFK was hit with a high tech round. Sadly, the US Gov’t, the Mainstream Media, and the JFKA critical community lack the guts to follow up an obvious lead.

The claim that Zelensky conducted genocide in the Donbas prior to Putin’s invasion is a lie. https://www.promoteukraine.org/un-releases-data-on-donbas-war-casualties/amp/ Emphasis added: The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights unveiled the data on Donbas war casualties from 14 April 2014 to 30 June 2021. “The total number of casualties related to the conflict in Ukraine is 42,500-44,500 people,” the Office said in response to an information inquiry from Radio Liberty. The casualties are categorised as follows: 13,200–13,400 people killed (at least 3,901 civilians, about 4,200 Ukrainian servicepersons, and about 5,800 Russian-backed militants) 29,600–33,600 people wounded (7,000–9,000 civilians, 9,800–10,800 members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and 12,800–13,800 occupiers) In general, over the years of the war, civilians have accounted for 25-26% of the killed and wounded. The UN also notes that this ratio has changed significantly over the years: from 33-34% in 2014 to 4-5% in 2019-2021. As a reminder, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported 42,000-44,000 casualties in Donbas for the period from 14 April 2014 to 10 February 2020. </q>

Naw...just having fun. He’s right about Berkeley, I want to emphasize what he said. A friend of mine from the Berkeley punk rock heydays went QAnon around 2019 — she’s half-Black, half-Jewish and full Trumper. People change, it happens. So those claiming that a guy like DePape couldn’t possibly be QAnon don’t know what they’re talking about and could do everyone a favor and stfu.

Oh, that was you... Hi Ben, long time no viddy droogie! As I tried to explain to you at the time (in the 80’s amirite?) much confusion arises from the contradictory definitions of “anarchy” and “anarchism.” anarchy ăn′ər-kē noun 1. Absence of any form of political authority. 2. Political disorder and confusion. 3. Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose. anarchism ăn′ər-kĭz″əm noun 1. The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished. 2. Active resistance and terrorism against the state, as used by some anarchists. 3. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority. </q> In practice, Anarchism is non-coercive cooperation within a collective composed of equal individuals pursuing the same goal without anyone acting as the “leader” — the opposite of “Anarchy” 3rd definition. Here’s an example: https://924-gilman.tumblr.com The 924 Project was founded by the very authoritarian Tim Yohannon, but after he left it was run by an all-volunteer collective. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/924_Gilman_Street I’m amused by the right-wing trope that someone leading a “hippie” lifestyle could NOT be MAGA. Hippies — anti-establishment MAGA — anti-establishment Not too hard to figure out, is it?

I'll re-phrase: "Why do you assume Diem would have invited such a commitment?" "Today's World Report: Truce Moves Reported In Viet Nam," New York World-Telegram & Sun, (Friday), 25 October 1963, p.6:* "LONDON - The government of South Vietnam and Communist North Viet Nam are apparently making exploratory contacts that could lead to a truce, diplomatic sources said. There was no official confirmation…Diplomatic sources said the current moves were believed to be aiming at some sort of truce arrangement with possible wider ramifications." <quote off> Ellen J. Hammer, A Death in November, pg 156: <quote on, emphasis in the original> When [Diem and Nhu] had first claimed that Americans were active behind the scenes in the agitation spreading in Saigon, they had sounded paranoid – a favorite word among Americans for Diem and Nhu that summer. But who could disbelieve [David] Halberstam, with his excellent sources in the Central Intelligence Agency, when he reported that the CIA had been openly sending its agents into the pagodas and making daily contact with Buddhist priests and “other participants in this crisis”? These agents were acting under orders – and they did not go to the pagodas to discuss the finer points of Buddhism. <quote off> The Ngo Brothers were well aware of the American hand in the generals' plots. To think that the Ngos *wouldn't* seek a way out by negotiating with the North is absurd on it's face. "Politics make for strange bedfellows," no? In the late 80's and early 90's I dated the daughter of an officer in Nhu's secret police. Her family was Buddhist. She adamantly denied there was strife between Catholics and Buddhists, and she insisted the C.I.A. agitated the whole crisis. Not if we're discussing whether or not Diem would have chosen to throw in entirely with an untrustworthy ally. Are you familiar with the man's career? Apparently not. An uninformed opinion. Who negotiated the Vietnamese peace deal in 1968, which Nixon torpedoed right before the Prez election? From Spanning the Century: The Life of W. Averell Harriman, by Rudy Abramson, pg 624: <quote on, emphasis added> Some of Averell's friends, including [Roger] Hilsman, who had heard Bob Kennedy muse about the possibility of Harriman as secretary of state, thought there was still a chance that Averell might yet get the Foggy Bottom job he long coveted. But that had been before the notorious coup cable [243 authorizing Diem coup 8/24/63]. Though the President had avoided criticism of Averell in the episode, Harriman knew Kennedy's confidence in him was shaken. After working his way to the seventh floor, he was suddenly viewed as a problem. Almost overnight, he looked ten years older. Privately, the President and the attorney general talked of finding a way to rehabilitate him, to find a job that would get him out of the Vietnam business. There was a need to put more emphasis on hemispheric matters, and the President thought that one way to solve two problems might be to create a new post of undersecretary for Latin American affairs for him. As deeply as the administration had involved itself in the machinations against Diem, Kennedy still appeared stunned when the long-anticipatred coup ended with the assassination of Diem and Nhu on November 1. The United States could technically claim that it had been a Vietnamese affair; but the administration had conditioned the atmosphere, beginning with the Harriman-Hilsman cable to Lodge. <quote off> Harriman sacrificed his long cherished Sec of State job to maintain a militarized So. Vietnam. Think he wouldn't sacrifice Kennedy? Just as well, since you lack the knowledge base to discuss the career of W. Averell Harriman.

What makes you think such a commitment would have been possible with Diem in power? There were reports Nhu was negotiating with the North. Regime change prevented the best chance for peace. And was thus more significant. And that decision was entirely up to Americans? I suspect Averell Harriman headed a cabal determined to take control of the world's heroin market. He negotiated the partition of Laos and the overthrow of Diem -- and the murder of JFK, I suspect. He needed to restore aid that had been cut off in September, sending a message to the generals to stand down. Averell Harriman out-played him. Getting rid of Diem was *the* key event in the evolution of the Vietnam War.

Regime change is the far greater intervention, no? Did MacArthur approve of what Kennedy green-lit in 'Nam?

That would have been news to the Ngo Brothers, that JFK didn't green-light direct American intervention in Vietnam.

A "JFK fanboy" is one who lets their love of JFK blind them to JFK's primary responsibility for the Bay of Pigs debacle, and the overthrow of Diem in Vietnam. Yes, JFK was out-manuevered/betrayed by aides both times, but that doesn't change where the buck stops. I dunno what happened to Marilyn. I wasn't there, I swear.

Ellen J. Hammer, A Death in November, pg 278: <quote on, emphasis added> On Thursday, October 31, General Don went to Gia Long Palace and talked with both Diem and Nhu. He inquired about the petition he and General Dinh had given Diem in September, asking for cabinet posts and policy changes. He was told that since everything had resumed to normal there was no need for changes… General Don was busy on Thursday with last-minute preparations for the coming action. That was the day [activist professor] Buu-Hoi went with two Buddhist monks to see Ngo Dinh Nhu. They asked him to intervene with Diem to set free “all Buddhist dignitaries, laymen and students still under detention,” and Nhu “promised to obtain from the president a favorable answer to this request.” The news was announced in an official press release. It would be a banner headline on the front page of the Times of Vietnam the next day. This was awkward news for the generals. The Buddhist issue, which had been slipping away ever since the arrival of the mission from the United Nations [Oct. 24], seemed to be disappearing before their eyes, and a convenient excuse for their coup with it. <quote off> James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable, pgs 201-2 <quote on> In Saigon on Friday morning, November 1, Ambassador Lodge and Admiral Harry Felt, Commander in Chief of the Pacific, met with President Diem, as rebel troops were gathering outside the city… “Tell President Kennedy that I take all his suggestions very seriously and wish to carry them out but it is a question of timing.” This was the response from Diem that Kennedy had been waiting for, and Lodge recognized it. In his comment on Diem’s statement, Lodge cabled: “If U.S. wants to make a package deal, I would think we were in a position to do it. The conditions of my return [to Washington] could be propitious for it. In effect he said: Tell us what you want and we’ll do it.” A milestone had been reached. Diem had finally responded to Kennedy in a hopeful way through a reluctant ambassador, and Lodge had conveyed the message to Washington with a supportive comment. However, Lodge buried Diem’s message to Kennedy near the end of his report. Moreover, he did not send the report on his breakthrough conversation with Diem until 3:00 PM, an hour and a half after the coup had started. He also chose to send this critical cable by the slowest possible process rather than “Critical Flash,” which would have given it immediate attention in Washington. As a result of Lodge’s slow writing and transmission of Diem’s urgent message to Kennedy, it did not arrive at the State Department until hours after the rebel generals had laid siege to the presidential palace. It was too late. <quote off> "Today's World Report: Truce Moves Reported In Viet Nam," New York World-Telegram & Sun, (Friday), 25 October 1963, p.6:* "LONDON - The government of South Vietnam and Communist North Viet Nam are apparently making exploratory contacts that could lead to a truce, diplomatic sources said. There was no official confirmation…Diplomatic sources said the current moves were believed to be aiming at some sort of truce arrangement with possible wider ramifications." <quote off> Ellen J. Hammer, A Death in November, pg 156: <quote on, emphasis in the original> When [Diem and Nhu] had first claimed that Americans were active behind the scenes in the agitation spreading in Saigon, they had sounded paranoid – a favorite word among Americans for Diem and Nhu that summer. But who could disbelieve [David] Halberstam, with his excellent sources in the Central Intelligence Agency, when he reported that the CIA had been openly sending its agents into the pagodas and making daily contact with Buddhist priests and “other participants in this crisis”? These agents were acting under orders – and they did not go to the pagodas to discuss the finer points of Buddhism. <quote off> James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable, pgs. 184-5 <quote on, emphasis in the original> Kennedy’s main State Department advisers on Vietnam, Averell Harriman and Roger Hilsman, and his White House aide, Michael Forrestal, were all just as dismayed as Lodge was by the president’s decision to send McNamara and Taylor to Vietnam [on late September ’63 fact-finding mission]. When Harriman learned about it, he phoned Forrestal to say he and Hilsman thought the president’s proposal was “a disaster” because it meant “sending two men opposed to our policy” of promoting a coup. Forrestal glumly agreed. But Kennedy had made his decision. The coup that his closest State Department advisers on Vietnam and his Saigon ambassador regarded as their policy, and that they had manipulated the president into endorsing, was not in fact his policy. <quote off> Roger Hilsman: Buddhists bit – tasted a little bit of political blood. Bit harder – tasted more political blood -- and then finally began to use American television. None of them spoke English but their signs were all in English. https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24909-max-boot-gets-booted-on-lansdale-in-vietnam/page/5/ Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5: <quote on, emphasis added> Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.” Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.” The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.” At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal. According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance. <quote off>

Impeccable! Here's Myers, emphasis added: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2.htm The President's clothing confirmed the path of the bullet: a small hole in the back of his suit coat (threads pushed inward) approximately 5.3 inches below the top of the collar and 1.96 inches to the right of the middle seam (7HSCA83), a corresponding hole in the President's shirt located 5.75 inches below the collar and 1.3 inches to the right of the midline (CD205, p.153-54) (photographs taken seconds before the shooting show the suit coat had shifted upward on the President's back, accounting for the discrepancy between the wounds in the body and the holes in the clothing), a slit-like bullet hole in the front of the shirt (threads pushed outward), and a tear on the left side of the tie knot where the exiting bullet grazed the tie knot. (ARRB MD28) </q> The bullet hole in the shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar; the defect in the jacket 4 &1/8" below the bottom of the collar. The jacket was elevated 1/8". Elm St photos show JFK with a normal amount of shirt collar visible at the back of his neck, indicating the bottom of the jacket collar was in a normal position just above the base of his neck. Can Myers or any of the other LN cultists replicate 2+" of shirt and 2+" of jacket elevated entirely above the top of the back without pushing up on the jacket collar right above the base of the neck? Isn't such a claim utterly, obviously idiotic? Anyone afflicted with that degree of confirmation bias is a danger only to themselves.

Allen and John Foster Dulles were Harriman's lawyers before they went into Gov't., according to Rudy Abramson's biography of Harriman Spanning the Century.

Averell Harriman -- WASP-capo-di-tutti-capi

The place to start with that imho is the fact that Prescott and George HW Bush were proteges of W. Averell Harriman, as were Robert Lovett, McGeorge Bundy, and Richard Bissell. They all got their starts with Harriman projects: Lovett and Prescott with Union Bank, GHWB with Dresser Industries, Bissell and Bundy on the Harriman-run Marshall Plan.