Chris Davidson

Still the same LOS from Bronson, just extend the shooter back to near the carport. (Sorry, didn't pick up that perspective from Bronson initially.)

The LOS to JFK is now the North side of the Stemmons sign.

The bullet that hits JFK approx 4.2ft farther down than extant Z313, travels between Doris Mumford and Gayle Newman who are 7ft apart from each other.

The shot is approx 186.25ft away.

Slight change in perspective as it's farther down the Annex Rd.

On 1/23/2018 at 2:31 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The XP-100 was initially introduced with a 10¾" barrel set into a nylon stock with an unusual center-mounted grip. Chambered in .222 Remington in early prototypes, the short barrel produced significant noise and muzzle flash. Subsequently the case was shortened to reduce powder capacity to a volume more suited to the shorter barrel of a pistol. The resulting cartridge, the .221 Fireball, produced factory loaded velocities of over 825 m/s (2,700 ft/s) from the short barrel, and accuracy rivaling the parent .222 Remington, one of the most accurate cartridges made.

1frame/18.3 = .0546... sec  x 2738ft per sec = 149.617ft = see graphic above

Personally,

I think it looks more like this type of muzzle.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TFvyjnpHuIcbLuhapYXcjEx0Nn5WqStf/view?usp=sharing,

On 2/2/2018 at 8:33 AM, Chris Davidson said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZh5FUEcE9k3vKAAzIgRlW9URBCsfZbc/view?usp=sharing

I don't believe that's a dog muzzle.

18 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

 

Shortcutting this, the accommodation for the 15.25ft horizontal /10" vertical drop might look like this.

Average speed change 2.24mph

Instantaneous speed change 3.74mph

Total speed change 5.98mph

5.98mph = 8.79ft per sec x 1.73 sec (see Myers above)= 15.20ft

Myers frame rate for Towner = 22.8fps -18.3fps = 4.5fps over 167 frames

167/22.8 = 7.32sec     167/18.3 = 9.12sec

Difference = 1.8sec

The limo traveling 14.94mph from z168-186 is BS.

This is a direct reflection of the 10.2ft adjustment being made at the approx z133 splice.

JFK plotted from z133-z149 = 19.125ft traveled = 14.88mph (21.8736ft per sec), which by no coincidence, is quite close to the target 14.94mph.

Myers gives us a 15 frame total between the end of Towner and Z133 = 15/18.3 = .8196...sec.

The distance difference between Towner end and Z133 = 7.75ft.

At 21.8736ft per sec in .8196 sec the limo travels 17.9276ft

This is 17.9276 - 7.75 = 10.1776ft = 10.2ft pushed farther down Elm = move of z207shot to Station# 3+81.3(1st shot listed on FBI/SS plat Dec 63).

The orange colored CE884 (embedded in the WC final plat May 1964) can be thought of as an "instantaneous" change. (Path Switch among others)

The first two entries z168-z171 reflect the reduced speed(frame removal) of the limo at extant z313 + 4.2ft =  3.74mph. 

Within the first second of time (z168-z186) the average speed is listed as 18frames@21.6ft traveled = 14.94mph.

14.94 - 3.74 = 11.2mph

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313. 
This was found to run elapsed time from the film standpoint which runs at 18.3 frames a second, runs for a total of 8.3 seconds. 
This distance is 136.1 feet, and this can be calculated then to 11.2 miles per hour. 

Andrej,

I would agree that Baker reaches the curb some 30 seconds after the last shot.

I do not agree with your assumption that everyone reacts the same way and therefore no-one moved(maybe they did, maybe they didn't) within that time period. Thirty seconds can be an eternity in terms of movement.

As for Baker:

The time it takes for Wiegman panning back to the TSBD after the head shot, until the Hester sync = 21seconds.

Bell films Wiegman filming the Hesters. The sync point between Bell and Wiegman is Hester stepping up onto the Colonade.

Bell continuously films afterwards for 1.3 seconds and  picks up Wiegman starting to rise for his  run down the knoll.

Gerda’s dual-sync of Couch/Darnell shows both Wiegman and Baker in there respective runs.

There is 3.5 seconds of missing footage from the Wiegman sequence.

Take those 3.5 seconds and apply that to Wiegman after we see him start to rise in Bell and to
Baker before we see him in Gerda’s dual-sync.

Baker’s run to the curb equals 4 seconds.

This total = approx 29.8 seconds.
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vobiYYwTLsuR63NZ0vX9ytxXNjlW4g8D/view?usp=sharing

On 1/31/2018 at 11:09 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The time difference between the extant z313 shot and my shooter is 4 extant Bronson frames.

Bronson filmed at 12 frames per sec.

Convert 4 Bronson frames into Zapruder frames:

18.3/12 = 1.525 x 4 = 6.1 Zframes

6.1 Frames + 7 (difference in sync frames) = 13.1 extant Zframes

13.1/18.3 = .715 sec = Donald Thomas shot 3+4

One last item in terms of dealing with the approx 57 frame span adjustment average, is the last two entries on CE884.

Z255-z313 = 58 frames

The 13.1frames missing from z313 til the next shot when added to the z255-z313 span = 71.1 frames

That is 48.9ft + 4.2ft more = 53.1ft

71.1/18.3 = 3.885.. sec

53.1ft / 3.885 = 9.297 mph

Myers average for the motorcade down Houston St. was listed as 9.3mph.

JFK plotted limo speed in the last 1.09sec of Towner = 9.34mph

Backend to frontend and frontend to backend.

In Myer's work, the matching frame span occurs as he works backwards from z175 to his beginning point at Z118

He no longer gives distances (incorrect anyways)after z175.

His span from z118-z175 = 57 frames matches the span from z161-z217.66.

His 10.2ft distance difference (actually 10.1776) is created between the Towner end and the Z beginning, when properly plotting JFK's position within the limo and realizing the true distance between the Towner end and Z beginning is only 7.75ft.

In other words, his limo slows at that point to: 18.3/15 x 7.75ft = 6.43mph

10.1776/3.294 = 3.089... x 18.3 = 56.54 frames

The public version of CE884 (white in color) reflects the average speed change of a 10.2ft adjustment from z161.

It rears its ugly face in the first two entries of z161-z166 = a vehicle speed of 2.24mph = 3.294ft per sec

If one wants to locate where the early investigation (FBI/SS Dec5, 1963 plat) utilized this 10.2ft adjustment, look no further than CE884(public version).

10.2ft/3.294ft per sec = 3.096... sec x 18.3fps = 56.666.... frames

Added back to the start of the data at z161 + 56.66 = z217.66

Z217.66 lies between z207 and z222 on CE884. (I did not use z210-z222 as my average because the frame numbers 208/210 were switched via the WC among the two CE884 versions)

Z222@ Station# 3+85.9 - Station# 3+81.3 (1st shot changed location from extant z207) = 4.6ft

Average limo speed per frame from z207-z222 = .9866...ft per frame

4.6ft / .9866... = 4.662 frames

Z222 - 4.662 frames = z217.338

Added on edit: If you are concerned with the 15.3ft vs 15.25ft, please consider the difference in the overall frame total.

10.15ft/3.294ft per sec = 3.081...sec x 18.3 = 56.388.. + 161 = frame # 217.38

A little more insight:

The 15.25ft horizontal change to go with that 10" vertical drop.

    .9ft - West/Shaneyfelt path change

10.2ft - 1st shot change from z207 to Station# 3+81.3

  4.2ft - Distance between extant 313 approx simultaneous shots

15.3ft

On 2/1/2018 at 8:12 AM, Michael Cross said:

Chris, it's hard to discern what leg is moving from the vid you posted.  I assume you think the moving leg doesn't match in the two films?

Michael,

Yes, that is correct.

On 1/31/2018 at 11:09 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The time difference between the extant z313 shot and my shooter is 4 extant Bronson frames.

Bronson filmed at 12 frames per sec.

Convert 4 Bronson frames into Zapruder frames:

18.3/12 = 1.525 x 4 = 6.1 Zframes

6.1 Frames + 7 (difference in sync frames) = 13.1 extant Zframes

13.1/18.3 = .715 sec = Donald Thomas shot 3+4

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZh5FUEcE9k3vKAAzIgRlW9URBCsfZbc/view?usp=sharing

14 frames @ 4.2ft = .3ft per frame

The 7 frame adjustment arises between both CE884's.

The speed adjustment arises on the May 1964 final plat ( orange colored).

On the May 1964 version the entry is z168-z171 = 3 frames.

The distance traveled = .9ft

The distance per frame = .3ft which matches the first sentence.

Or, in terms of mph, 18.3fps/3frames = 6.1x .9ft = 5.49ft per sec = 3.74 mph = 1/2 of 7.47mph = plotted speed of limo from z301-z313.

Car slows down, more frames are created, remove excess frames, car speeds up.

The limo travels 4.2ft over 14 frames = 18.3/14 = 1.307 x  4.2ft = 5.49ft per sec = 3.74mph

Sam Kinney the driver of the Queen Mary can attest to that:

The extant Zfilm(z301-z313) shows the limo travel (18.3/12 = 1.525 x 7.2ft = 10.98ft per sec / 18.3frames) = .6ft per frame = 7.47mph

At .6ft per frame, 7 additional(non synced) frames = 4.2ft

From Z313, the limo will travel 7 standard Zframes + 7 non-synced frames for a distance of 4.2ft.

I'm quite sure this is what gave Tom Wilson his "4 feet farther down the road" conundrum.

Listen again:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T_L-ofjszZmZnMK9raiElwQfYA9YjZqx/view?usp=sharing

Using the extant Zfilm, the limo travels 7.2ft for the last 12 frames.

The time difference between the extant z313 shot and my shooter is 4 extant Bronson frames.

Bronson filmed at 12 frames per sec.

Convert 4 Bronson frames into Zapruder frames:

18.3/12 = 1.525 x 4 = 6.1 Zframes

6.1 Frames + 7 (difference in sync frames) = 13.1 extant Zframes

13.1/18.3 = .715 sec = Donald Thomas shot 3+4

To begin:

The difference in sync is 7 frames. An example would be the leg position from(z328-z335). 

This coincides with the CE884 (7 frame) change. 

2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Remember, according to Z, he is in a continuous trot even after the Bronson film ends.

What happens to the running man's orientation (in Bronson) if I flip the film horizontally?

 

It looks like this.

What leg is moving forward when Jackie wraps around.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H1HqVLW9uOQt6J3W2bBOeLP5CvFgiqzn/view?usp=sharing

56 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Recommend studying running mans step's and Jackie's hand movements in both films.

I'll tie this into some upcoming math. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UmaS63O6fMSB5EQP5pa7fLRNY76A2Wwt/view?usp=sharing

Running man(Z background). If you don't see him, look closely at the Bronson film between the tree branches, he is almost directly above himself in both films.

His moving legs are easy to spot.

In Z, when Jackie does her wraparound (using right hand), running man has his left leg extended out front.

In Bronson, he starts stepping with his left leg (last leg seen before branches obscure) as Jackie begins her hand wraparound. 

Remember, according to Z, he is in a continuous trot even after the Bronson film ends.

What happens to the running man's orientation (in Bronson) if I flip the film horizontally?

Recommend studying running mans step's and Jackie's hand movements in both films.

I'll tie this into some upcoming math. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UmaS63O6fMSB5EQP5pa7fLRNY76A2Wwt/view?usp=sharing

On 1/30/2018 at 11:57 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Michal Cross,

My apologies, that example is wrong. 

I will delete the link.

I should have used a stationary object for limo movement.

Something like this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gy5kpaCREtkFoiQO7oRuyzlRblfbhimg/view?usp=sharing

Better yet, in a little while, I'll show the same concept comparing one of the other films to Z.

In other words, the backgrounds not syncing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is more like it:

Recommend the study of the running man's steps and Jackie's hand movements in both films.

I'll tie this into some upcoming math. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UmaS63O6fMSB5EQP5pa7fLRNY76A2Wwt/view?usp=sharing

Added on Edit: I'm going to move the rest of these followup posts to the "Shooter Location" topic.