Chris Davidson

Where's Truly in the Bell clip?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_lDfJUgbVKK2r0bRe08Tu3BaQfQhraXa/view?usp=sharing

Paul,

I'm quite familiar with the Towner film.

In order for 8 different films to sync through the assassination, Dale Myers said there were 7 frames missing from that Towner splice you describe.

Myers frame rate for the Towner film was 22.8 fps, so 7/22.8 = 3/10 of a second.

Do you believe Truly's description of the limo actions approaching the abutment, occurred in the elapsed time of .3 seconds?

Chris

On 12/19/2017 at 12:23 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Paul,

Do you believe the films or his testimony?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

Paul,

I'll just refer back to my original question. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bm1jEI__dsn8Rdgb6aUoGBRjgoVGCCvc/view?usp=sharing

Paul,

Truly is much too precise in his description of the limo location while turning.

If he would have generalized and only said it made a wide turn (subjective) then I could cut him some slack.

If you believe the Towner film is unaltered, the limo never touches the far right lane.

The back end of the Impala ? is parallel with Elm St within the center lane.

Paul,

Here's a pano with Truly included.

Yes, I know that's from a recreation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_lDfJUgbVKK2r0bRe08Tu3BaQfQhraXa/view?usp=sharing

4 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I decided to plot the trajectory of the supposed bullet hole in the windshield in Altgens 6. I would think if it is not a bullet hole the trajectory would likely point to some implausible location for a sniper. it might point up in the air or into the ground, or somewhere on the lawn that was photographed and shows no shooter. I  heard it had been calculated to originate from the commerce St underpass but I wanted to use multiple photographs of JFK to see just how accurately it can be plotted. plotting the vertical and horizontal angles I found it leads to the top of the hill in the South corner of the plaza next to the parking lot and about 20 ft East of the railroad tracks. There are two interesting things about that location. First it allows for an almost level shot if the shooter is crouched or prone at the top of that hill. Secondly the shot occurred at the point when  the limo came the closest to pointing directly at the sniper location, about 16 degrees from driving straight at the sniper. 
  When first plotting it out I included the 4 degree slope of the plaza. using 4 degrees the shot could have come from the Commerce tunnel. But then I measured the angle of the limo at the location of the throat shot and although it does not look like a 46 degree angle ,it turned out the limo was moving across the 4 degree slope at a 46 degree angle. Just like a skier that goes straight down a hill is at a steeper angle than someone going across the slope, the limos angle was only 2 degrees from front to back. the other 2 degrees would manifest as the limo leaning 2 degrees from side to side but the grade of the road corrects that. (if the limo was on Main street and sideways in the road, it would have a 4 degree lean side to side while from from to back to front it would have zero angle. So applying a 2 degree lean from front to back moves the shooter location to the top of the hill. The location of JFK's throat was hard to pin down so I gave it a 5 inch box in which it could be positioned. that allows for 4 degrees of variance. Each degree translates to about one and a quarter inches per degree at JFK's neck and 14 feet at the sniper location. The Commerce tunnel is at the edge of that box but the top of the hill seems like a better location as it has a quick exit through the parking lot behind it, a level shot, and minimal tracking of the target as it is movings towards the sniper at the moment of the neck shot. 
 But there is one thing about the windshield theory that  is a problem. it is hard to find a position for Connelly and JfK where the bullet does not pass through Connelly's head. if the shot did happen through the windshield it would have comes very close to JC's head. He never said he felt a round pass by is head which is strange. 
 There is always debate about JC's reactions and whether it indicates he was struck by the same bullet as JFK. But if he reacted to a shot passing right by his head, how could we separate that reaction from his being hit by a round. Besides JC's lapel flipping up and down there is no movement that could not be attributed to the bullet passing by his head.

Chris,

Something like this:

BTW, that is not my description.

41 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ron,

Thanks for getting back to the theme of this thread -- ROY TRULY --

If ANYBODY can show anything in his testimony which proves that Roy Truly was deliberately fabricating, this thread is the place to post it. 

It's  nonsense just to imply, like James Di Eugenio, "We all agree that Roy Truly was lying, and we don't need to explain why to anybody."

By the way -- just because Roy Truly was terrified about the JFK Assassination fallout until he died -- THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT ROY TRULY LIED UNDER OATH.

Just because Roy Truly's wife refused to discuss the JFK Assassination -- even with family members -- THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT ROY TRULY LIED UNDER OATH.

So -- ANYBODY -- what else have you got?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Do you believe the films or his testimony?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

The view depicted from atop the County Records building( from John Orr's presentation) looking down over Elm St, superimposed over an actual photograph.

https://ibb.co/jtZFZm

On 12/16/2017 at 10:56 PM, Micah Mileto said:

https://imgur.com/a/TbNJ5

 

 Where's the discussion about this?  

 

 

The base distance from z273 to County Records Building Annex corner (Photo)= 256.25ft

The rooftop = 80ft.

The elev change = 430-420.06 = 9.94ft

The angle needed for this shot to the street is 19.35 degrees = 19 degrees 21min 

The parallel scenario set forth by the WC (6th floor SE window) is thru Shaw's testimony who states somewhere around z236.

If one will look back at CE884 data for z235, the angle set is 19degrees 26min.

The angle change in CE884 for z235-z240 = 25 minutes or 5 minutes per frame.

So z235 (19deg 26min)- 5min (z236) = 19deg21min which is a match.

Hi Jorma,

I think you are on the right track in not requiring the known location of the microphones.

I was asked to watch Donald Thomas' latest video awhile ago and apply it to the extant Zapruder film.

Here was my response:

Brad's previous inquiry:
The speed of the limo factors into the acoustics analysis recently presented by Donald Thomas:
In his lecture, Mr. Thomas relies on the FBI/WC speed of JFK's limo at slightly over 11 mph. If your research presents the analysis that this speed is not factual, does it not also indicate the audio analysis of Dr. Thomas is based on untrustworthy data?

Brad, I did get a chance to watch the Don Thomas video. Thank you for supplying the link

Here's what I came up with. I'll do it in small bits.

Thomas has the recording motorcycle at approx Z161(Station#3+21.7)while the extant Z313(Station# 4+65.3) headshot occurs.

That 321.7ft starts where the "Houston St corner building aligns onto the street". Edited should say "crosswalk" not corner building. A two foot difference between them.

In other words, take the last Hughes frame of McClain in it, and that's your starting timing point also. Close enough.

In Hughes, from the time "JFK in limo" is aligned with the TSBD corner until McClain hits the starting timing point is approx 6 seconds.

This means, McClain is the distance traveled by the limo in those 6 seconds + the distance from starting point to the TSBD corner, behind the limo.

Remember, there is the Elm St turn to traverse when arriving at the TSBD corner aligned spot on Elm St.

Brad: Part 2

In the background at extant Z233,the front end of the first blue impala convertible aligns with the last wall hole, from Zapruders LOS.

At that point, it has traveled 99ft from the starting point (McClain crosswalk).

McClain in Hughes is actually trailing the 2nd blue impala convertible. The one directly behind the first.

The cars are 17.5ft in length.

At Z233, most likely, the farthest McClain can be up Houston is 64ft. 99ft-35ft(17.5 x 2) = 64ft

Originally, he needed to travel approx 319.7ft from starting point to Z161 location.

At Z233, 80 frames until Z313, he needs to travel 319.7ft-64ft = 255.7ft to get to Z161 location.

80/18.3 = 4.37seconds.

255.7ft/4.37seconds = 39.8mph average.

I have stabilized versions of the background from Z133-Z255 approx where the background drops out. McClain does not appear farther up Houston in that span. Baker does, just briefly trailing the 1st blue convertible.

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Huh?

 

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But, according to David J.'s diagram (below), that bullet would have blown out the left side of JFK's head.

 

 

 

How would you manipulate Jackie's head position to recreate JFK's at z312?

The grid (area between the two upper photos)would be a likely location for a extant 313 shot. 

This area opens up the gap between Nellie and Jackie for a direct LOS to JFK.

Picture the truck-bed as the rear seat location for the Connally's and Kennedy's.

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Frasier does not see the limo until DC....  any and all cleaning would have been done between 12:40 and the following day...
He was there late at night and into the next morning....   even in this image, do you see any blood from a right to left shot from the front?  I don't even see smudges...

Probably finished the outside first(most visible), put the top on, then worked the inside.

Higher and more eastwardly.

The farther east along the south knoll the better.

Also, a little higher would be more beneficial.

If in the upright position, the top of JFK's head is 52.78", at extant z313 = 39.24", 13.54" lower.

Disregarding Jackie's position, the sewer LOS would look something like this.

Richard,

Is the sewer close enough to your position?

I didn't put the "x" there.

I did include the red arrow.

On 12/8/2017 at 2:52 PM, Michael Walton said:

Pat - what are your thoughts on this. The only thing that does make me wonder is the line has to go upward to get it to come out as a tangential wound.  And I think you are right with that BTW and I also think Kemp was too:

Somehow that shot had to have taken place because the open cranium wound does show beveling - meaning an outshoot.  It's just mind-boggling for me though to figure out *where* exactly you'd be able to get it off.  Chris D showed elsewhere that it'd be very hard to get from the underpass and there were people there too.

 

In case it was forgotten, this is what was presented.

This would be very close to the previous posting.

The limo approx 7ft further west and we'd see the back seat occupants. Imo

This is approx where "JFK within the limo" would be for a sewer shooter using the extant Zfilm and the previous FBI/SS documentation.

Note the yellow curb stripe on both. 

2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

You all might want to check the sewer plans which have been posted and discussed here many times - the size of the feeder channel connection to what is a storm drain in the street would be pretty relevant to  your discussion as well as the size of the cement casing behind that drain entry....

Could someone lift off/recover the manhole lid , climb in and wait?

22 hours ago, Roger DeLaria said:

Any photos showing 1963 pavement level before the add-on, giving a much wider opening? I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo somewhere showing older and newer pavement put on top.

I found this.

Lightened it a bit.