Chris Davidson
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Posts posted by Chris Davidson
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13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
This thread needs to back up and re name itself. It's not shooter location. It's shooter's locations. Maybe one from the TSBD, another as a additional look back and up distraction. At least one from Dal-Tex, possibly two. Trouble is two came from the front. First throat shot and the final back and to the left. Then again Ms. Fister's work deserves consideration.
Ron,
Next time I'll name it "Anyplace but the 6th floor window".
This is some of Fiester's work.
I've added my LOS (thin red lines) to it.
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18 hours ago, David Josephs said:
But he was shot from the front Chris....
And there were people between your shooter and JFK... if you're talking just past the pole.
??
David,
The opening is
behindbetween umbrella man and the Stemmons sign.McKinnon(I believe) is leaning against the lamp-post which opens that up along the same LOS.
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1 hour ago, David Josephs said:
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is frame 210 and has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 893 and represents the 10-inch adjustment for the difference in the height of the car as compared with frame 207.
and here he gives it all away.... the rise/run on Elm is 1'/18.3'. A 10" drop in vertical height equates to 10"/12" = x/18.3'. x = 18.3' * .833333 = 15.25'
For Shaneyfelt to make the correct adjustments for the stand-in and the height of the re-creation limo everything must move down Elm 15 feet. Of course that change makes everything related to frame numbers and distances completely worthless....
David,
I find it easier to show what a true measurement would look like compared to the 10" BullSh- - the WC tried.
Look no further than z207-210-225 = Curly, Moe and Larry.
Z210-z225 = 15 frames/14.9ft traveled and elevation change of .82ft
Converted using 10" as the elevation change would equal a distance of: (10/12) .833... / .82 = 1.0162... x 14.9ft = 15.14ft
btw, remember while working with decimals and whole frames, there will be a difference of a 18.3/18 =1.0166...
Which, in this instance gives you the approx distance difference.
And, the appropriate rifle angle change for that 10" elevation change would be reflective of z207 and z225.
One result of this being an attempted compression of data melding two shots into one.
Now, move the path of the limo 1.1ft (z161-z166) in a southerly direction (what was the lateral difference between JFK and Connally within the limo) and you'll probably arrive at the magic bullet location from the magic rifle location up in the 6th floor SE window.
People don't seem to realize that 10" vertical (such as a rifle barrel moving up and down or a shot location on JFK - higher/lower) does not equal 10" moved down Elm St.
If a car moves 10" lower down Elm St, that car better move 15.25ft. No easier way to say it.
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25 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:
These higher rungs of government ( especially the military and black budget agencies and their think tanks ) can be very organized, efficient, and intelligent. And they can keep secrets.
From my simple, less than higher education working person's point of view, which is all I have had to draw and depend on to get me through 60+ years of living in this often tough world, I have seen many conspiracies exposed in every level and area of government. Conspiracies that if suggested before they were exposed would be met with derisive criticism of those suggesting these including calling them whacky and nuts as the writers Lance mentioned like Bugliosi constantly did also.
Crooked cops, judges, mayors, back room real estate and rezoning deals and pay offs, sex scandals, killings thought to be random later found to be perpetrated by organized crime, you name it.
Conspiracies happen every day, all around us, all the time.
To think that the JFK, RFK and MLK killings couldn't have been carried out by corrupt and powerful groups and conspiracies involving them versus lone nut crazies who just got lucky is to me as irrational as Lance labels CTers.
Nicely stated.
An excerpt from Salandria link:
Salandria: I suggest that Specter and the Commission - at least part of the Commission and certainly Specter - had a pre-determined predisposition to arrive at certain inferences irrespective of what the evidence was. And you consider that lacking in integrity. Well I think that's one way of looking at it.
But I think that if you put yourself in the role of Specter at this time - and so far as I can empathize with that kind of position - he took a job. He conceived himself as working for a governmental organization which in turn represented the President and had a specific task. And within that framework, he worked. And in that role he saw himself. And in that role he did a job which he considered a good one, and which was entirely consistent because he had an assignment. And that assignment was - I'm afraid had to be - that there was one assassin, one gun, stationed in the rear of the Texas Book Depository building. And that therefore no matter what the evidence, the ultimate inference would be that. That's how I see Specter's role here. In a certain context, he has integrity. He served his employer.
He thinks he served the country. I think he served the government. -
10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:
We have to be more specific than that.
The windows are not seen on the official WC (Position A photo used) reenactment.
But, fortunately for us, there is other footage from a different vantage point that gives us that WC-Position A match.
The checkered pattern is the key.
High-Low
If the white background building was demo'd between 11-27-63 and 5-24-1964, that would explain the difference.
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7 hours ago, David Josephs said:
The point being made is that the windows on that building are not seen during the reenactments.
We have to be more specific than that.
The windows are not seen on the official WC (Position A photo used) reenactment.
But, fortunately for us, there is other footage from a different vantage point that gives us that WC-Position A match.
The checkered pattern is the key.
High-Low
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34 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
As you look at Towner Chris...
Right about at this moment does it appear to you that the limo "SLIDES" to the left as opposed to turning to the left...
I used that position to show the red curb where Truly stood... Towner give no impression of what Truly states: where the limo must almost stop and turn sharply left to get back to the middle....
David,
Setting aside the "slide" question for a moment, Bart pointed out Truly's position within Wiegman.
That position matches(close enough)Truly in Bell and Towner.
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My movie frame taken from the pedestal on the right side.
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3 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
The "parameters" are Truly's lie versus the Towner film.
Truly's lie is that the Limo slowed down noticibly and turned hard to clear the abutment.
The Towner film, which is not filled with lies, misdirection, obfuscation, prognostication, manipulation, deceit, criminality, prevarications, paid-endorsements, preconceived notions and absurd theories ......... all show that the limo swiftly rolled through the turn.
Michael,
Thank you for stating that succinctly.
I do believe we are missing more from the end of Towner's film than we have.
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3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:
Chris,
It's good to have a video -- yet that video still falls short, on three counts:
1. It's not a limo
2. It's not a controlled parade, where the cars have a right to hog the road
3. The film was not taken from the spot where Roy Truly was standing.
Only when those three conditions are met can we even come close to the parameters involved.
Regards,
--Paul TrejoPaul,
Plenty has been provided.
It appears no conditions will satisfy your expectations.
Our discussion is over.
Chris
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On 12/29/2017 at 11:48 AM, David Josephs said:
If the limo did not travel thru POSITION A there would be no reason to include it in the analysis... but they did.
THIS is what the turn looked like - how they were able to fix the TOWNER film is something we need to keep looking at...
It must be remembered that the limo was almost 22 feet long... that's over 2/3 the width of the lane...
Ask yourself - why did the FBI add and then include position A... if the limo never drove thru it?
(edit: Would have turned? Shaneyfelt claims Station C is where the limo WOULD have turned... no just turned...
if the turn started after C, Truly's curb recollection is more than plausible...
David,
Listen to the Tina Towner clip while viewing the side by side frames.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wUpvU6b28UGTslP54m6GVGi6QUCzR_eo/view?usp=sharing
The side by side is before JFK
the limoreaches Position A.
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2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:
Paul,
The pedestrians in the crosswalk would be approx 20ft from the abutment.
One just has to picture the white trucks arc path intersecting the pedestrians.
The analogy would be the 56 chevy? making the turn.
The outside left turn lane from Houston onto Elm, would be more indicative of a Truly path, in relationship to the abutment.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cK1h20oqrGCfE_gEeNuowaMiwxTpNXxM/view?usp=sharing
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Maybe the WC listened to Truly's description (limo turning onto Elm St) and plotted it (Position A) accordingly.
Then again, Position A's path to where the limo is shown at extant Z133, as opposed to where the other films (Towner, Bell) show its path, would add more time/distance/frames to the equation. So, at another point, more time/distance and frames could be subtracted.
Think Myers.
Same result as Truly's long-winded description.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1589sGWXKv9W_793F4fYQZ-iCqOhNcmxG/view?usp=sharing
Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct.
Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct.
Mr. SPECTER. Could the marksman then have taken a shot at the President at any prior position and have struck him with the point of entry on that spot, on the base of the President's neck?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. I don't quite understand the question.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any prior position, that is a position before position A, where the marksman from the sixth floor could have fired the weapon and have struck the President at the known point of entry at the base of the back of his neck?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. No; because as the car moves back, you lose sight of the chalk mark on the back of his coat.
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Paul,
The pedestrians in the crosswalk would be approx 20ft from the abutment.
One just has to picture the white trucks arc path intersecting the pedestrians.
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3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:
Chris,
Everything you say here is merely a repetition of what Roy Truly says -- the difference is that you are projecting your CT onto it.
They are excerpts from Truly.
Again -- the phrase you seize upon is this one: "pulled back to the left." You suggest that this means a backward motion. IT DOESN'T.
I haven't seized upon any specific phrase. You decided to single these out and emphasize them.
Also, this phrase, "had to almost stop" doesn't mean anything like, "he stopped." It just means the driver slowed down.
That's your interpretation.
Chris' Statement: The limo reduced its speed from 9.3mph to 6.6mph
Chris' description: The driver slowed down.
If the JFK limo driver had not (1) slowed down; and (2) turned more sharply to the left; then he would "probably have hit this little section," BUT HE DIDN'T HIT IT.
You forgot: "perceptibly".
You added: "sharply"
The limo was 20ft from the abutment.
Nor does the TOWNER film show how close the JFK limo driver came to that little abutment there.
Sure it does. I just explained the distances involved. Maybe a plotted graphic will help.
Nor did he STOP. Nor did he move BACKWARD at any time.
I never said he did.
Your CT is projecting onto Roy Truly's testimony, and then accusing him of LYING.
With the exception of the estimated speed into the turn, nothing Truly described occurred.
Yes, I would call that a lie.
Regards,
--Paul TrejoPaul , my responses are in blue.
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Elm St. is 40ft wide.
40/3 lanes = 13 1/3ft per lane
Limo = 76.8 inches wide = 6.4ft
Limo driver side (Towner film)= 1ft from south lane stripe.
13.3 +1 =14.3 + 6.4 = 20.7ft
Limo passenger side is approx 19.3ft from the abutment.
20.7 + 19.3 = 40ft
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PONpZwHzjfWg3nNDUM399hGgFwpVSDpJ/view?usp=sharing
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38 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:
If Baker was seven cars behind JFK, still on Houston yet to make the dogleg turn onto Elm when the last shot was fired, given the speed of the parade at that point it likely took him close to a minute to get to the point where he ditched the bike. Say 30 seconds. If the WC estimate is from the time he got off it that's getting up to 2-2/12 minutes to get to the second floor. Then question Oswald, then go up to the third, on to the fourth. Then they were seen After Adams and Styles went down. I guess what I'm still getting at is The WC is BS, they had no investigative power, relied on the FBI thus Hoover for such, were stonewalled by Angleton and the CIA And were stymied from within.
Ron,
Baker is between the blue chevy convertible's(Hughes film). The lead one is in the background at Z233.
Plotting the front end of it puts it at 96.25ft down Houston St.
Minus 17.5ft for car length and another trailing 10ft for Baker.
At extant Z233, Baker is 96.25ft - 27.5ft = 68.75 down Houston St.
If first shot was at Z223 = another 10/18.3frames = .546 x 13.47ft per sec = (9.3mph= average speed of motorcade down Houston)= 7.35ft
At z223, Baker is approx 68.75 - 7.35ft = 61.4ft down Houston St.
z313 - z223 = 90zframes = 4.91seconds
4.91 sec x 13.47ft per sec (9.3mph) = 66.13ft
z223= 61.4ft + 66.13ft = 127.5ft down Houston at Z313.
Corner to Corner Houston St = 200ft
CRB Corner to Baker's ultimate parking location if he followed the motorcade path around the Elm St turn = 82ft
So, at z313, Baker must drive 200 - 127.5 = 72.5 + 82 = approx 155ft to park his cycle.
If he maintains the 9.3mph(13.47ft per sec) motorcade speed for his final 155ft, it will take him 11.5seconds to get to his final destination.
Obviously, if he heard a shot earlier than z223, then his distance traveled after z313 would increase.
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Paul,
The limo enters the intersection at 9.3 mph, slows down to 6.6mph and incrementally climbs to 7.1 then 7.9 and back to 9.3mph.
came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour.
swung out too far to the right,
came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment
he slowed down perceptibly
pulled back to the left
get over into the middle lane
he had to almost stop
probably have hit this little section
Chris
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On 12/25/2017 at 4:17 PM, Michael Walton said:
Chris I can only go by what I see in the film and also the Bell film. Although Bell is not as clear as Towner it does not appear that he slows down. It looks like he just glides along at a consistent speed. I understand that that's what Truly said. All I can say is perhaps he misremembered what he saw because the film does show it differently.
Yes,
The Bell and Towner films(overlapping in the Elm St turn) complement each other quite nicely (limo speed-as they should) when you apply the correct FPS for both and plot them using Robert West’s plat.
The point being, the Elm St. turn is a perfect location to hide distance/time/FPS for whatever adjustments were needed later.
Truly tried with his (add some more time) testimony.
Myers tried with his multi-film(limo tires-inside diameter) sync project.
The WC tried with CE884(2.24/3.74mph) and the Z film start/splice at Z133 along with the (Willis photo sync).
The Towner splice (aligned JFK with the TSBD corner).
"From what Tina and Jim Towner told me over the years, they had no knowledge of how or when that splice was made. What is known is that the film was developed for them by The Dallas Morning News within a few days of the assassination; available records suggest the film was never seen by investigators until the HSCA. The only other time the film was out of the Towner’s possession was when LIFE magazine borrowed it from them in 1967 for publication in their November issue about Kennedy assassination photographers."
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y_nfcpz4km0-C2OdyUcJddc5epTgTvdL/view?usp=sharing
Stabilize the Towner video, realize the speed of the limo around the corner was 7.8mph, view Truly directly across from Towner filming, locate the film splice and listen to Truly:
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. -
Paul,
I never presumed Myers was correct and have shown that he was wrong.
If it wasn't .3 seconds, how long (in your opinion) would it take for Truly's limo description to play out?
"WHY LIE ABOUT SOMETHING SO TRIVIAL?"
What might be trivial to us obviously wasn't to Truly, otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for his long winded, detailed description(not appearing in any extant films) of the limo approaching the abutment on Elm St.
Since "timing" appears rather important in this case, I would start there.
Chris
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Thanks Bart.
I see the hat movement.
Shooter Location
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Aerial Frame