Joseph Backes

I wouldn't bother with Mr. Baer. He's a disgusting xxxx. His JFK Declassified TV show a ridiculous lie after lie.

NO.

A few thoughts. Kathy Cunningham lives, or lived, in Ocala, Florida. I met her briefly a few times in the 1990's just before and during the early days of the ARRB. I think you made a slight error in your writing. I don't think Andy Purdy was a doctor. He was at an early 1990's COPA conference in Washington, D.C. I thought he was a HUGE jerk. If you have a RIF # for this it would be easy to find, if MFF had it. If you know of some text from the doc then do an advance search on MFF.

I don't understand why people like or read The Epoch Times. They are an extreme Right-wing group of grifters who are extremely loyal to Trump. Some background on them. They were the largest pro-Trump spender on Facebook. Segment from The Rachel Maddow show, from August 21, 2019. The Epoch Times and the ridiculous One America News Network are both owned and operated by Herring Networks. When Rachel Maddow explained how OANN is literally Russian propaganda they sued, and lost. In fact the judge ordered them to pay for Maddow's fees in defending herself. John Oliver on OANN. I don't think we need them.

Oh dear, oh dear, people just don't pay attention. What is all this noise about Oswald getting to Mexico by car being new to anyone? RIF # 104-10015-10359 was first released in 1995 and the bit about the car was right there, unredacted. I mentioned it in my review of the Third Batch on John Kelin's old website, "Fair Play." The text of those reviews is on the Assassination Archives and Research Center now. These were 39 CIA documents. The Third Batch.

The whole issue of how did Oswald got to Mexico City was investigated by the FBI. There was a set of documents on the FBI's investigation of this released during the days of the ARRB. By chance I ran into Dr. Jerry Rose at Archives II while I was there to get some documents too. I copied my stuff on the photocopier. No one does this anymore. It's amazing how technology and the whole culture of researchers scan and use digital cameras now, even cellphone to copy docs. Anyway, at one point I asked him if he found anything interesting. He was amazed at the amount of material on this. The FBI could not figure out how Oswald got there. The main problem seemed to be the lack of accurate documentation from the Mexican authorities. The bus he allegedly used was a hopeless mess.

No, you're not missing it. They didn't bother with that this time.

No, you did not read that right. It's not your fault as Vincent Palamara is a terrible writer. I like Vince. I do. He is a great asset and a great researcher. He just cannot write. He cannot write a sentence to save his life. He’s always interrupting himself before he finishes a sentence to add new information that often has nothing to do with the idea that he started the sentence with. It’s maddening. He cannot limit himself to one idea per sentence and then stopping that sentence with a period. No, no, no, he has to shove brackets, parenthesis, footnotes, endnotes and the kitchen sink in. He cannot stop and then start a new sentence. If the story is Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a bail of water Vince would give you Jack’s complete life story, personal and professional background, names of teachers he had, where they lived, where they got an education, where Jack grew up, who lived next to Jack, how they’re related to various mob, and political figures, and insert hundreds of brackets and parentheses as he tells those stories only to interrupt himself a few hundred times as something will spark a memory of many other things none of which have anything to do with Jack before he goes back to the original story he wanted to tell, if he ever does, picking it up if we're very lucky with the “and Jill,” part. Somewhere Sam Kinison screams, “UGH! UGH! UGHHHHH!!!!” Palamara wants to talk about how several key figures in the JFK assassination have Army Intelligence backgrounds. But, he makes a word salad instead. "General Marshall S. Carter, His Brother When General Charles Cabell left the CIA after the Bay of Pigs, Nelson Rockefeller was advising the new CIA Director, John McCone, who owned a million dollars worth of stock in Standard Oil in California [James Hepburn, "Farewell America", p. 321]." Now I defy you to figure out what the hell Vince is trying to say here. Clifton Coleman Carter ( not the LBJ's aide ) had a brother, General Marshall S Carter. What does this sibling relationship between these two men have to do with Nelson Rockefeller advising CIA director John McCone? Nothing. Yet, Vince makes a link. Why? Because without explicitly saying so Vince wants to say there was a conflict of interest. So, in a rare moment of clarity Vince writes that Rockefeller recommended McCone hire General Marshall S Carter as CIA Deputy Director, which McCone did. Then Vince writes "My footnoted comments: *as was Secret Service advance agent Winston G. Lawson, a former CIC agent in the Army stationed at Fort Holabird, MD [4 H 318] Huh? What do you mean Vince? That Lawson was advising McCone? Vince does not explain what a CIC agent even is. And before Vince can explain what he means he’s off telling you that Winston Lawson worked in the Army at Fort Holabird. And before he can finish and support that idea he has to tell you that Lawson's time at Ft. Holabird was at about the same time as Richard Case Nagell. And before he explains who in the hell Richard Case Nagell is ( Yes, I know who he is but he should be explained to the reader ) Vince has to tell you that Louis B Sims also worked at Ft. Holabird. And he doesn’t explain who in the hell Sims is or why he’s bringing him up. And he continues as though there is a well written narrative flow here on the topic of people with Army intelligence backgrounds with this: "In addition, a Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer, who taught Army Intelligence, rode in the pilot car with Jack Puterbaugh, DNC advance man from the Agriculture Department [billy Sol Estes, Henry Marshall, Orville Freeman...Mac Wallace], although Whitmeyer was not scheduled to ride in the car in the first place [RIF#180-10074-10396]! **along with James Jesus Angleton, Ray Rocca (later, CIA liaison to the Warren Commission), and Paul J. Paterni (Deputy Chief of the Secret Service who inspected the limousine on the night of 11/22/63, as well as investigated LHO's income tax check, among other things [see KAC journal Spring 1998 issue---article by author entitled "The Secret Service: In Their Own Words"] Again, what the hell is Vince talking about? The Agriculture Dept links Billie Sol Estes with Henry Marshall, Orville Freeman and Mac Wallace. Orville Freeman was the Secretary of Agriculture under JFK and LBJ. The Agriculture Department is the link. Not Jack Puterbaugh. And no, Billie Sol Estes, Henry Johnson, Orville Freeman and Mac Wallace were not in the pilot car. Do you see how Palamara did not properly introduce the idea of people with Army Intelligence backgrounds? And he brings up people without clearly explaining how and why he moves from one person to another? He cannot simply say where Jack Puterbaugh came from and leave it alone. No, no, no, oh the Agriculture Deparment, that means I must bring up Bille Sol Estes. And then without explaining the link is Army Intelligence background he brings up James Jesus Angleton, Ray Rocca, and Paul Paterni as though they're in the pilot car too with those five guys from the Agriculture department. So, since Palamara brought it up let's quickly explain Billie Sol Estes. The Billie Sol Estes scandal is best summed up on Wikipedia.“In the late 1950s, Estes was heavily involved in the Texas anhydrous ammonia business. He produced mortgages on nonexistent ammonia tanks by convincing local farmers to purchase them on credit, sight unseen, and leasing them from the farmers for the same amount as the mortgage payment, paying them a convenience fee as well. He used the fraudulent mortgage holdings to obtain loans from banks outside Texas who were unable to easily check on the tanks. "At the same time, United States Department of Agriculture began controlling the price of cotton, specifying quotas to farmers. The program included an acreage allotment that normally was not transferable from the land it was associated with, but which could be transferred if the original land was taken by eminent domain. "Estes worked out a method to purchase large numbers of cotton allotments by dealing with farmers who had been dispossessed of land through eminent domain. He convinced the farmers to purchase land from him in Texas and transfer their allotments there, with a mortgage agreement delaying the first payment for a year. Then he would lease the land and allotments back from the farmer for $50 per acre. Once the first payment came due, the farmer would intentionally default and the land would revert to Estes; in effect, Estes had purchased the cotton allotments with the lease fees. However, because the original sale and mortgage were a pretext rather than a genuine sale, it was illegal to transfer the cotton allotments this way.” Estes like a typical grifter claimed his prosecution was political. And again from Wikipedia, " “In 1962, after information came to light that Estes had paid off four Agriculture officials for grain storage contracts, President John F. Kennedy ordered the Justice Department and FBI to open investigations into Estes' activities and determine if Secretary of Agriculture Orville L. Freeman had also been "compromised" (Freeman was cleared).[3] Congress conducted hearings on Estes' business dealings, including some that led to Vice President Johnson, a long-time associate of Estes.[4] "In 1963 Estes was tried and convicted on charges related to the fraudulent ammonia tank mortgages on both federal and state charges and was sentenced to 24 years in prison. His state conviction was later overturned by the United States Supreme Court in Estes v. Texas, 381 U.S. 532 (1965). His appeal hinged upon the alleged impossibility of a fair trial due to the presence of television cameras and broadcast journalists in the courtroom. He prevailed by a 5–4 vote. Estes was paroled in 1971. Eight years later, he was convicted of other fraud charges and served four more years.” None of this is necessary or relevant to the fact that Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer rode in the same car in the motorcade with Jack Pauterbaugh. Now to the heart of the matter, the two Clifton C Carters are two different men. If you bother to learn the middle name you're not going to be confused by this. Actually, there was a 3rd Clifton C Carter, he was a Brigadier General. He was the father of Clifton Coleman Carter and Marshall Sylvester Carter. This Clifton Carroll Carter is really the first. He was born in Kentucky on July 12, 1876. He died 20 Sep 1950 and is buried in Arlington. Clifton Carroll Carter is the father of Clifton Coleman Carter and Marshall Sylvester Carter. Clifton Coleman Carter was born in Fort Monroe, Hampton City, Virginia on 15 Dec 1903. He died 7 Jan 1967 in Naples, Florida. He too is buried in Arlington. Marshall Sylvester Carter was born 16 Sept 1909. He died 18 Feb 1993. He is buried at Arlington. These three Carter men have nothing to do with Clifton Crawford Carter, the LBJ aide. Clifton Crawford Carter, the LBJ aide was born on 2 Aug 1918 in Bryan, Texas. So far I have found nothing to indicate Clifton Crawford Carter was ever involved in Army Intelligence or the OSS.

Do you know the RIF of this document? Thanks

Mervyn, Hello, I cam across a document today 180-10106-10047. It is an HSCA interview summary of Lewis E Hopkins and Charles F Davis. They ran an international travel agency, Travel consultants, Inc. located in the Trade mart in New Orleans. LHO booked passage on board the SS Marion Lykes which took him from N.O. to Le Have, France. According to Hopkins LHO came in on Sept 18, 1959 and paid cash for his ticket. Perhaps you already knew this. Also, I have to conclude that de Vosjoli is a con-man, especially after Jim Dieugenio's research into how the book "Farewell America," came to be. See - Chapter 12, of Destiny Betrayed, second edition. HSCA - Lewis E Hopkins - Charles F Davis Jan 4 1978.pdf

Yeah, that sounds right. We have to be grateful we got what we got from normal, amateur photographers. Think of all the different types of camera and film that was used. Photography is a difficult skill to master. I'm glad it was in the analogue era. I've collected a few of the camera types, the specific make and models that the more well known films and photographs were taken in. I think Elsie Dornan, if I got that name right, also did not look through the viewfinder. She took film looking out a window in the TSBD. I kind of wish I could somehow go back in time and tell them how to use their cameras properly. or even to tell the professionals. Imagine if Altgens took a photo right around the time JFK's head exploded. He said he was about to but froze at the horror of it. Imagine that image and what might be visible on the grassy knoll. I think the images have told us all they can. It's best to spend the time reading the documents. Joe

Well, first of all LBJ wasn't in a limo. It was a 1964 Lincoln 4 door convertible. A 1964 model would be introduced in October of 1963. You know, I don't think there is one of LBJ's car leaving Dealey Plaza. The best you're going to get is Willis 6. Randy Owen has a great photographic timeline site. It's a little bit tricky to use. You have to click and hold on the little scroll button otherwise it'll speed through nearly the whole thing. There is a film near McIntyre's position beyond Dealey Plaza where children are seen waving at the approaching motorcade who were unaware the assassination had just happened. I can't remember the name of the film. It's in color. It might show LBJ's car. It's the Jack Daniel film.

I think Col. West was talking about the ROTC program. That's the Reserve Officers Training Corps. I went to a high school that had a junior version of this. If I went to a college that had a ROTC program and took those courses I could have entered the U. S. Army as an officer. My high school had a junior high, which is the 6th and 7th grade level. So, I had 6 years of JROTC. That was enough of that nonsense for me. I've read where the ROTC really started much earlier than people think. Wikipedia has an entry on it. However, it wasn't really what we think of it today, I would argue, until WWII. My maternal grandfather was drafted to go into WWI and trained in Pennsylvania. That program was called the Student Reserve Corps of the Army. Fortunately, this was in October of 1918 and the war ended on Nov 11th, 1918. So, he never left Pennsylvania. I don't think there was much of a focus on anything like a ROTC program after WWI and before WWII. Joe

I'm still not seeing anything about Stuart Reed been in military intelligence. Maybe there's something in the more recently released files. I find only 3 docs for Stuart Reed in the NARA JFK Database. 1.) 124-10002-10140 - Open in full in 1992 2.) 124-10245-10444 - Open in full in 1992 3.) 124-10013-10447 - Open in full in 1992 None are available on the Mary Ferrell site. If you do a name search for Stuart Reed there are some hits. A CIA doc, which is a copy of an FBi doc, then a FBI doc, and some others. I've seen Stuart Reed's middle initial as H, L, and J. These all appear to be the same Stuart Reed. He's Stuart L and J Reed in FBI documents, and Stuart H. in an article in The Third Decade. The correct middle initial seems to be L. Okay in this item mentioned by Dennis Morissete above it says Stuart served for 30 years with the Secretary of the Army's office of personal management. So, this still isn't military intelligence. It's intriguing. Worthy of further research.

Jim, Here's how. SA Henry J. Oliver learned that a photography store in Dallas, Dyna Color Corporation, had 35mm slides from Stuart J. Reed. That led to his daughter, then an address in New Orleans, then that he had set sail for the Panama Canal Zone where he worked. Joe

Jim, according to this document the FBI went out to the ship he was on which left New Orleans and was on its way to the Panama Canal or to the Panama Canal Zone where he worked and spoke with him. It's rather amazing considering how much in Dallas they ignored.

So, these are the Stuart Reed photographs. So, I'm not aware of Stuart Reed being with military intelligence. Was he?

Hello, Jim DiEugenio mentioned on Len Osanic's "Black Op Radio" show, show #954, aired August 29, 2019, that there was a guy from military intelligence taking photographs of the bus Oswald was supposed to be on and the street the Texas theater is on. Does anyone have more information on this? Thanks.

Ed, What are you quoting from? Where did you get this? And do you have more information about this woman and her death? Thanks.

IDIOTPANTS who has been banned from this forum has stolen a post from this thread, the first one made by David Lifton in this thread, and posted a reply to David Lifton on its blog. It's pathetic what it ( I can't us a male or female pronoun, "it" is much better, makes you think of something less than human ) will do to get around from being banned. It thinks it is now talking directly to David Lifton, as though Lifton would visit its blog. It even uses all caps to shout at Lifton. It goes through all the BS talking points, 1.) Lovelady is not sitting in a chair in the squad room of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, he was not there, 2.) the film may have been shown on WFAA-TV without Lovelady, 3.) because people didn't have VCRs or Tivo back then we can't really know what was televised. 4.) Lovelady was embedded into the film at some later date IDIOTPANTS thought the title of "A Year Ago Today," meant that they had a year to embed Lovelady into the Buck film. 5.) The Buck film was heavily edited. 6.) All online versions of the film are different from each other. It cannot comprehend that it is watching the Buck film from various documentaries which start and end the Buck film at differing times. It claims it cannot match a single frame between the differing Buck films. 7.) No reason for Lovelady to be in the squad room. No matter what you tell it it will always repeat "No reason for Lovelady to be in the squad room." Well, we all know that no matter what it will recite its lies, endlessly. And that's why it was banned.

From Tom Blackwell via Facebook: I am sad to report that John Judge passed away overnight - - He served on the staff of several Members of Congress, including Dennis Kucinich and Cynthia McKinney. He organized the Coalition on Political Assassinations, and continued the tradition of Penn Jones to conduct a Moment of Silence at Dealey Plaza in Dallas each November 22 (until this was interrupted by Mike Rawlings in 2013).

I don't think we need to compare and contrast Newman and Prouty, and think one is better than the other. John Newman showed us a lot of documents. He got a lot of documents on Vietnam declassified prior to the JFK Act. Prouty was there and added valuable information and context. I'm glad we had them both. I wish we had more guys like John Newman or Prouty. What I find remarkable about John Newman is his evolution from someone who did not think there was an institutional plot within the CIA to kill JFK to one who fingers James Jesus Angleton as being a key member of such a plot. If you watch his presentations in a chronological order its very interesting. And there were documents that he would show during a presentation where the public had the same access to them as Newman had. I had many if not all of the documents he would show during a presentation. But he could read, for example, and show us how to read the CIA's Record and Routing sheets. Documents that the HSCA asked for and the CIA said no. It's fascinating to see all the initials and all the compartments within CIA that were reading reports on Oswald when they told Mexico City in October of '63 that the latest info they had on him was a State Dept report from May 1962, this was when Oswald was still in Russia. It was great to see the hard evidence, from the CIA's own files that they were lying to their own subordinate station in Mexico City. If John's presentation was part of a movie or a play this was a show stopping scene. I hear gossip that he's still an active researcher and is working on a book "JFK and Cuba." I hope that's true. Joe

And about getting the name right, its Joe Backes, not John. I think Mr. Katz is real. And it would be a shame if he decides to not open up and tell more of his story because he got angry about some comment on a forum. He, like John Newman before him, should be welcomed for the possibility of us gaining a lot of information. John Newman was treated with disdain by some people merely because he came from U.S. military intelligence. I think John Newman's contributions to the JFK researcher community has been tremendous. I hate to think where we would be now if he never came forward and told us about JFK and Vietnam. John set a high bar of excellence in his work and his many presentations. I would like to see Mr. Katz give a presentation. I think there's a lot we could learn from him and vice versa with the documents we have. Joe

More on Jack R Dougherty, from - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SomeUnknownUSHistory/conversations/topics/541 It was rumored that anti-Castro Cubans received military training at the ranch at James R. Dougherty Jr. near Beeville, TX and that he was a member of a Minuteman group. Dougherty Jr's lawyer father formed the oil company of Hewitt and Dougherty, which operated over a wide area of South and West Texas. His father also fought in the Mexican American war. And there's this: ( from this - https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fdo22 ) DOUGHERTY, JAMES ROBERT (1871–1950). James Robert Dougherty, attorney, oilman, and philanthropist, the son of Robert and Rachel (Sullivan) Dougherty, was born in San Patricio, Texas, on August 27, 1871. He was certified to teach at the age of sixteen and took a position in Webb County. Two years later he enrolled at Saint Louis University, after which he attended the University of Texas in Austin. He studied law in the offices of Lon C. Hill and James B. Wellsqv and was admitted to the bar on March 4, 1895. He went to Beeville to practice law, and later his brother, J. Chris Dougherty, joined him to form the law firm of Dougherty and Dougherty. James Dougherty helped to establish the legal precedent of private ownership of minerals in the beds of nonnavigable rivers. He dealt in livestock all his life. He developed a silver mine in Durango, Mexico, in 1916. He was instrumental in discovering a number of South Texas oilfields, including the Tom O'Conner, Greta, Pettus, Flour Bluff, Refugio, Dougherty, and several others. With Dr. W. E. Hewit, he formed the oil company of Hewit and Dougherty, which operated over a wide area of South and West Texas. Dougherty spoke Spanish fluently and was a student of Latin, Greek, and French. He furnished capital to a publishing company in New York for translations from Latin and Greek. He was elected first lieutenant by a company of volunteers during the Spanish-American War. He married Genevieve Tarlton on April 24, 1911, and they had four children. He was a member of the board of regents of Texas A&I University at Kingsville for ten years and a member of the boards of regents of Incarnate Word and Our Lady of the Lake colleges in San Antonio. A decade before his death, he and his wife established the Dougherty Foundation as an aid to youths for obtaining an education. Dougherty was a Catholic and a fourth-degree Knight of Columbus. He was made a knight of the Order of St. Gregory the Great (1947) and of the Order of Malta (1948), as well as of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre (1948). In 1937 the Doughertys donated $12,000 to finance the construction of a new St. Joseph's School in Beeville. Later they built the James R. Dougherty, Jr., Recreation Center in memory of their son, who was killed in action during World War II. Dougherty died on July 8, 1950, in Corpus Christi and was buried in Beeville. BIBLIOGRAPHY: Grace Bauer, Bee County Centennial, 1858–1958 (Bee County Centennial, 1958). Grace Bauer (Lillian Grace Schoppe), The History of Bee County, Texas (M.A. thesis, University of Texas, 1939). Beeville Bee-Picayune, July 13, 1950. Fort Worth Star-Telegram, November 29, 1964.

I think Allen Dules corresponded with a Jack R. Dougherty. See - Byrds, Planes and an Automobile Our boy in the TSBD was a Jack E Dougherty.