Kathleen Collins

Ed,

The "approximate position of JFK's eyes"???

Are we not looking at JFK in profile?

Are not the dots (from right to left) at the approximate positions of JFK's right eye and top of right ear?

Are you suggesting that we are seeing a full-face image of JFK in this frame?

Charles

The dots do not line up with either of Kennedy's eyes. Ed is more visually astute than we. Ed is pulling our leg. Right?

Even Armstrong couldn't prove Norton was Lee Oswald. I guess my enemy expected me to sneak around Avon Park or collar Ralph Geb in person. I don't have the means to do so, which he well knows. I would hope someone would

pick up this research, someone with investigatory skills and a publisher behind him/her.

Kathy Collins

Don't waste your time citing John Armstrong as any kind of expert. Did you know that he once used

that right wing nut who once worked for Sen. Strom Thurmond, Colonel Philip J. Corso as a cited and reliable authority

until Corso started claiming he personally attended Alien Autopsies at Area 51. Corso claimed that this info was being

withheld by the U.S. Government and he was going to produce an alien cadaver as proof of his thesis. Needless to

say he only showed fuzzy 16mm films of what looked like an ET doll in a bed and he has forever been regarded as a

kook and a psycho ever since. Armstrong wisely stopped citing Corso as his primary source for one of his weaker

theories and that was the end of that. But can Armstrong ever live this down? Doubt it. Then the person who

did the artwork for Connie Kurtzberg's first book related the story of his walking tour of Dallas with Jack White and

John Armstrong which he described as "walking through downtown Jackson, Mississippi with a bunch of crackers hell bent on a racist, vituperative tirade". Those are his words not mine. So you see Kathy, you have to pick your

heroes and citations very carefully. Armstrong is also a White Russian with a Ukrainian background, I believe, and

he refuses to examine the obvious evidence about involvement with the White Russian community in Dallas with

Oswald which is as plain as the nose on your face. For obvious reasons, I might add. He wrote a book about White

Russians, Ukrainians and similar topics, you think he is going to drag them into the JFK conundrum? No way.

First of all, I thought I posted 2 photos of those boys on this site last night. Maybe I repeated them on my blog? Will have to check. No, I remember uploading them. Can someone tell me why they were taken off? Only Donald O. Norton was named, as he was a few years ago, photo and everything, in a local newspaper. The other man I did not name. Donald Norton is chubby. The other man looks healthier. I will direct forum members to my blog of early 2006.

thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com

I am very surprised to hear these things about John Armstrong. I didn't know he was a white Russian. So maybe now I've learned the real reason Armstrong never wrote a book on Donald O. Norton being Lee Oswald. Some people I know met Armstrong in person. They said they couldn't believe he could write a book with such detail and scope. Also, he wears a toupe. But there was some question as to if he was the real John Armstrong, or a front for someone else. Maybe an English scholar. Who knows? These are the things one picks up. Supposedly he is very wealthy from Real Estate. And now I remember he didn't want to be involved in any publicity dealing with the book once it was printed. Not even on blackops.

My inbox was full. Could someone, Kathy Beckett maybe, tell me why those photos were removed? You see, I personally don't know where these photos turned up -- not the ones I uncovered -- but originally. These redheads. How were they first related to Oswald? I would like Jack White to chime in.

I just realized something. I opened another thread last night for the adult photos. A little paranoia gets you somewhere.

Thanks for telling me these things, though I still believe the 2 red-headed boys are brothers about a year apart.

Kathy Collins

Ed, your photos, as usual, serve to explain how and who killed Kennedy. Priceless.

Kathy

Here are 2 photos. The B&W one is of Donald O. Norton from Avon Park, FL a few years ago. The color photo of the man with the beautiful dog is either Donald's brother, his twin or Donald himself. The color photo was taken in Canada.

Kathy

Charles,

For Heaven's sake!! I just put that in for fun--(note smiley face after I wrote it)

Cookies? How did you know? Been selling girl scout cookies all week!(BTW, we still have some available, for those interested)

Acuna matata just means "no worries". This was my way of telling her that it's ok. She happens to be a friend of mine.

Charles, thank you for sticking up for me. And Kathy Beckett, thanks for calling me your friend. Much appreciated.

I don't know what is wrong with that individual. After a long period of quiet he starts this. And I'm tired of having to ignore his unrelenting attacks because certain people on this Forum think he's great and long-suffering.

And for the life of me, I can't see any resemblance to Oswald in Donald O. Norton of Avon Park, FL. I take it John Armstrong started this. There must be something to it. I really would like to know what happened to Lee Oswald. One report says he left the TSBD via the back door and followed a path that opens on to Elm Street. There, someone picked him up and drove him to a little airport, where he might have gone to Cuba. But then there's the report that there were 2 Oswalds in the Texas Theater; one in the balcony and one downstairs. The one downstairs was observed sitting by various people time after time-- looking for his connection?

The man who owned a shop next door saw 2 cops arresting LHO (Lee) behind the building. And in front of the building it was a near riot as Harvey Oswald was being arrested. Also Lee supposedly shot Tippit, who mistook him for Harvey and would have killed him.

Kathy Collins

Here are the photos of the 2 teenagers. They look enough alike to be brothers.

Kathy

This concerns an attack upon my integrity and value as a Kennedy Researcher. It has come to

my attention that a person running a Kennedy website has called me "An individual who used

to belong to this Forum but doesn't anymore." He has posted that my Donald O. Norton

research isn't reliable. He says I merely typed in the words "Donald O Norton and Oswald" and

got my information from the Internet. It was a lot more challenging than that. I acted on a hunch.

It became known that Donald O.Norton was living in Avon Park, FL, running a charter boat and

fishing supply store. I found a business like this in Canada and northern USA called

"Red's" and I opened a Pandora's Box. Not only was this man a redhead, as is Donald O.

Norton of Avon Park, but he was practically identical to Donald O.Norton!

In the Donald O Norton posts of other reseaerchers, I found yearbook pictures of 2

red-headed teenagers taken, I believe, in the 1950s. These 2 boys -- their photos provided

possibly by John Armstrong long ago -- grew up, in my theory, to become DOnald O. Norton and

brother. I do not see a resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. It's a puzzle. I have not

solved it. One researcher emailed Norton in Avon Park. That was the end of that. And many

of you know John Armstrong is no longer interested in Donald O. Norton.

Following links from the fishing supply store, I came upon a picture that looked like the

other Donald O. Norton yearbook picture. He was not a redhead. As his picture downloaded,

the name Ralph Geb was beneath it. I looked up Ralph Geb on the Internet and found, to my surprise, that he was mentioned as having known Mac Wallace (of fingerprint fame) and having impersonated LHO shortly before the assassination. He does not look like LHO. But he looks like the yearbook picture of the man with the glasses. Was this a coincidence? A man named Ralph Geb, showing up on a site linked to the Canadian brother of the man we know as Donald O. Norton?

Fianlly I emailed the site and asked if that was Ralph Geb, "a family friend we haven't seen

in years." A week later the answer came, "No, that's Bill Dietz from North Carolina." Now

we know there's supposed to be a Donald O.Norton in the outer banks. And the name "Ralph Geb" was removed from the site -- at least on my computer.

My critic said I appear on several "venues" online and that I "operate" a blog. "Operate" -- like one would a brothel? I found his language inflammatory. He said I get my info from the Scandal sheets. This from a man who said to me that in the early hours of Nov. 23, 1963, Robert F. Kennedy, with his murdered brother downstairs in a closed coffin, "nailed Jackie" that very night. I countered with Kitty Kelley's statement that Jackie laid down next to Hugh D. Auchincloss and spoke about the assassination over and over and would not take sedation. I have other instances like this from this guy.

What made him do this, I don't know. But I don't care who reads this. I got as far as I

could re Donald O. Norton and Ralph Geb. Even Armstrong couldn't prove Norton was Lee

Oswald. I guess my enemy expected me to sneak around Avon Park or collar Ralph Geb in

person. I don't have the means to do so, which he well knows. I would hope someone would

pick up this research, someone with investigatory skills and a publisher behind him/her.

Kathy Collins

Then, again, is this actually J.D. Tippit himself?

Kathy

Here's another comparison with Tippit. I just added the sunglasses.

Duncan

It looks a lot like Tippit, especially the "widow's peak" hairline. So did Lee Oswald kill this man? Or is "Lee" Oswald really J.D.Tippit? It would solve the disappearance of "Lee" Oswald -- dead. And there was only one LHO: he went to Russia and "Harvey" came back and was killed by Ruby. But Mailer mentions there were 2 Oswalds at the Texas Theater -- I have to look at Harvey and Lee again about the theater. Tippit was dead by then. Neither looks like Donald O. Norton. My goal is to find out what happened to "Lee" Oswald.

Another problem: Could Tippit be BadgeMan? This is another theory, but I don't buy it.

Harvey Oswald was arrested in New Orleans for giving out fliers re FPCC. This is supposed to be his mugshot (unless it's Lee's). That's an awfully good picture of him; Harvey didn't have much eye appeal. If you put sunglasses on him, would he look like the Tippit gif?

In 1994 James Files provided this picture of himself and an unidentified man to Bob Vernon after conducting the on camera interview, that was later released as "Confession of an Assassin" by MPI Home video. James Files provided this picture after Vernon asked him if he still had pictures of himself from 1963.

Files went to his storage locker and pulled out the picture. Vernon was pleased and expressed his appreciation. He also asked: Who is the other guy? Files replied that he did not want to go in that. However Vernon asked why not and pressed on a little bit. Files eventually said something like: "Off the record, that's the guy who killed Tippit." I am not sure if Files intended Bob Vernon to publish that information on the Internet, frankly I don't think so, but since he has, the picture has been on the website www.jfkmurdersolved.com long before I came on the scene, and long before I had ever heard of James Files. But naturally the identity of this mystery man has intrigued me for years, ever since I first saw it. Also, since the picture shows James Files and a real man, I wondered why the man, or any of his relatives or friends, have never come forward to deny the allegation. Surely there must have been people who have recognized him, if not the man himself. And if he would not be the man who killed officer Tippit, you would expect people to come forward to deny the allegation, especially if it could be easily proven that James Files wasn't telling the truth. I have always thought that this circumstance alone adds weight to the veracity of James Files.

I have cracked my brains for years on who it could be. I have compiled lists of candidates, mob guys, undercover agents, cuban exiles, etcetera, most of which I could cancel out quickly because there are known pictures of most candidates and they did not resemble the man in the picture. I have asked around, and was sent on some wild goose chases, false leads and dead end roads.

Based on the information from James Files, http://jfkmurdersolved.com/tip.htm , we are looking for a tall caucasian man that

- was born and raised in America, and is maybe still alive.

- was from Chicago, as he was an acquaintance of James Files.

- was 25 to 35 years of age in 1963 (now 70 to 80 years of age).

- has no widely known connection to the Kennedy assassination.

- was in Dallas 11/22/1963

- was probably not called for the Warren Commision or the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

- was an undercover intelligence agent.

- worked for David Atlee Phillips.

- knew Lee Harvey Oswald, otherwise he could not have been sent to kill him.

- may have had a similar training as Lee Harvey Oswald

_________________________________

FWIW,

Seems to be missing a front tooth and to have really bad teeth. See enlarged photo in Duncan's post #10, too.

--Thomas

_________________________________

I believe in Harvey and Lee, that there were at least 2 men sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald. Could this photo of the man on the right be one of Lee Oswald? I'll state right away that he does not look like Donald O. Norton -- his nose is too slim. OK. Could he be the killer of J.D. Tippit? Witnesses describe LHO as the killer -- and I believe Lee killed Tippit. Are we looking at the birth Oswald? He seems to have a discolored tooth, like Lee had.

I believe Harvey was Russian, trained in English for 3 years. Robert Oswald said about his "brother" (paraphrase), "I was surprised at how much hair [Harvey] lost!" I guess that statement was to convince family, friends and acquaintances that Harvey had changed physically while in Russia.

Then, again, is this actually J.D. Tippit himself?

Kathy

In Secaucus, NJ late December 2006, shortly before noon, I saw a large airplane doing skywriting -- or practicing it. We were about to pull out of the parking spot, when I asked my friend if she thought it weird. She was virtually non-committal, but I was able to watch for a couple of minutes. He was at relatively low altitude. He made two O's, a K and a C. I think he was practicing. It was odd, but I wanted to report it here, this large plane making virtual sharp circles. The skeptics will either ignore or attack my sighting. I don't care.

I also recommend Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong.

Kathy Collins

Michael,

Does anybody know from Oswald's Marine records, what his blood type was?

Steve, if memory serves me I believe Oswald's military records indicated Type A.

This could get interesting.

You're right.

In CE 19H beginning on page 581, there is an Exhibit called the Donabedian Exhibit. It's a chronological history of Oswald's medical history while with the U.S. Marines.

On page 593, it gives Oswald's blood type as "A".

In volume 21 of the WC Hearings, there is the Price Exhibits, which are statements from the Parkland Memorial personnel.

On page 215 of volume 21, there is a statement from Bertha Lozano, R.N.

Describing the events of Sunday, November 24th and the treatment of Lee Harvey Oswald at Parkland, she wrote, "I helped, handing syringes to draw the blood, tubes for the blood, holding the patient's left hand along with Dr. J. Garvey, going to the Blood Bank with Dr. McGraw to register the blood, and obtain more O-negative blood."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=239

Now, she doesn't specifically say that the O-negative blood was for Oswald, but who else would she be getting it for?

Is it possible that the Oswald in the Marines had type "A" blood, and the Oswald who died on a Parkland Hospital operating room had type "O-negative"?

Steve Thomas

I understand that if someone needs a transfusion -- and this was an emergency -- the medics can substitute O blood for other blood types. FWIW.

Kathy

Although I understand the situation, John Judge checks in to set the record straight on his count. BK

JOHN JUDGE: I saw this as part of an exchange between you and Kathy Collins about Donald Norton on some Education Forum site. To set the record straight, Mae did not think Norton was an "Oswald impersonator" or someone "pretending to be Oswald".

He did not say he was Oswald, SHE did. She believed he was Oswald and he looked exactly like the young Marine with the chubby face who went to Russia. Someone else came back with Marina apparently, since she only knew one Oswald, unless she is lying about that as well. Marguerite told Mae the Oswald in the Dallas jail was not her son. She would not announce that I assume to protect her real son, but she did make a stink about his intelligence role in Russia. Mae and I believe we met a living Oswald pretending to be Don Norton, not the other way around.

Using Norton's name and repeating his interview with Ed Butler in New Orleans were clues for us. Norton was a suspect interviewed by Garrison.

These stories get so distorted over time by people who know nothing or have some hidden agenda.

My house mates clearly recognized that the visitor was Oswald when they saw his actual photo in Executive Action shortly afterwards. They had been skeptical at first having only seen the Dallas Oswald and not having studied the case or the photos closely ever.

Cuban intelligence chief Felix Rodriguez told me that his KGB handler and trainer in the Soviet Union told him in the late 1960s that Oswald was still living in the Soviet Union. By the early 70s he was back in the states, and we saw him in Ohio.

Norton didn't "pretend" to be anybody, it was clear to Mae and later to me that he was the real Oswald using Norton's name. He may still be using it in Florida, since the photos are similar.

I found the link to the Garrison investigation looking in my JFK books for the name Norton.

JJ

Mr. Judge, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the man who came back to the US with Marina was a Russian-born citizen. You only have to hear the voice of a man stumbling over English words to a Russian friend. His accent is weird and sounds British. In 1963 the same man did a few radio programs and it was the exact voice of the Russian. His English was much better. His name was Harvey Oswald, and perhaps Alek Hidel.

I've done research on Donald O. Norton. He looks nothing like the 2 LHOs. And I don't believe his hair is dyed, having been a redhead myself for many years. I would like to meet his CIA hairdresser! I also agree with Bill that the N. Carolina Outbanks Norton is the same man who lived in Avon Park, FL. The last we heard of Lee Oswald, he got on a plane to ... Russia, via Cuba?

Kathy

As most of you know my research centers around potential conspriators rather than the actual moments surrounding the death of President Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963.

With this disclaimer I would like to ask those of you who have researced those "moments" of death in Dealey Plaza,

"Do you believe that it is possible that Oswald could have been "A" shooter on that fateful day?"

Jim Root

As I guess some people around here know that I'm a Harvey/Lee-er. Lee Oswald shot from the 6th floor window to get Harvey in trouble, as they resembled one another.

Norman Mailer did theorize in his book, Oswald's Tale, that Oswald might have been a shooter, either alone -- or not at all; or unknowingly, separate from another killer(s); or as part of the conspiracy totally. In other words, Mailer couldn't figure it out. He left the whole mystery unsolved in that large tome of a book.

But I, too, have to admit, that at the time I read Mailer's book, I believed Oswald was up to no good, shooter or not, and therefore, a punk. I agreed with Mailer. I've come a long way since then in my beliefs about the Assassination.

So someone did theorize that Oswald could have been A shooter -- with others, say, on the Grassy Knoll. Knowingly or unknowingly.

Kathy

My concern is that even publicly talking about the asassination of Obama could be like a "self-fulfilling prophecy" if some nut wants to do something to: (a) call attention to his "issues" (ala the Va Tech killer); or ( simply go out in a "blaze of glory" and become infamous.

I really think the topic ought not even be discussed. We can only hope that the Secret Service is taking the guarding of ALL candidates very seriously and the staff of each candidate is also doing so. I think any serious candidate probably ought to have his or her own intelligence apparatus--not for spying on other candidates but just to attempt to identify threats.

I agree. I hope I'm wrong.

Kathy

Kathleen, presumably all presidential candidates are in danger of being shot by wackos or others.

But I can assure you that in the very unfortunate event that Obama is assassinated (and frankly I don't think it is a good idea to even talk about it) it will not be by anyone who killed JFK. Which is why this thread is irrelevant.

I am not sure why you think oil barons would want to kill Obama but the oil barons of today were all youngsters when JFK was shot.

I agree with you that it's a harsh thing to have to talk about, but I feel he is in danger. This afternoon he was running better than Clinton in Iowa. Today Oprah Winfrey is going to appear with him and endorse him. He is really going to be bigtime. Clinton and Obama are running a tight race. Like I said, if Obama gets close to beating Hillary or the Vice Presidency, he's in trouble. About the Clintons, I was told by a respected source that there were 200 political murders carried out during the Clinton reign. I don't know how true that is, but the Clintons are pawns in the hands of the rich oil men in Texas, including the Bush family. So maybe Hillary has an "in." Having Obama as her Vice President would assure her that no one would try to knock her off.

Guiliani: I remember the zeal he evinced when he arrested someone as the chief prosecutor before he was mayor. Such as, Bess Myerson, Leona Helmsley and many people. Now someone is making allegations about him. Do we really hold proper elections in this country anymore? This is going to be some race. And it will be won by whomever the multi-oil-billionnaires will select as their puppet.

Kathy

The people who killed Kennedy are most likely dead.

Including "the big fish".

So no, your terrible thoughts re Obama have nothing to do with the Kennedy case unless you believe in ghosts.

You're in dreamland, Tim, if you think that man isn't in danger.

Kathy

Another topic having absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zilch to do with the Kennedy case, except that Sorenson likes Obama,

It has everything to do with Kennedy. You can't see that?

Kathy

I apologize in advance if I brought this up before. I believe I wrote about it on my blog. It's about Barack Obama.

If Obama ever gets close to the Democratic Convention, I predict he will be killed. The oil barons don't want a black man as their President. Particularly, when he was brought up in the Islamic faith. No way will he ever get near the office of Presidency or Vice Presidency. He'll die in a small plane crash, a helicopter crash, a car accident, someone will shoot him, poison him, he'll choke to death or they'll dose him with dioxin like they did Yuschenko of the Ukraine.

I notice his supporters are predominantly white. This will not sit well with this country's old moneyed class. He will never get near the White House.

That is my read on things.

Kathy

Just for a laugh.

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Kathy Collins

I say let Robert Oswald take a DNA test and compare it to Harvey's daughters. He was not the brother of Alek Hidell (Harvey). And everything he says is BS. Let him take a lie detector test.

Kathy

In his excellent book "Breach of Promise" Prof McKnight identifies one exhibit to the WC as the most damning evidence against Oswald as Kennedy's assassin. I can see why he says that.

For people who have not read the book, what do you think would be the most damning evidence against Oswald? It's not the backyard photos. Merely because Oswald had his photo taken holding the M-C (assuming arguendo the photos are legitimate) does not mean he used it to shoot at anyone.

The most "damning" evidence that Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy was his stupidity. Didn't he think it odd that Kennedy was going to pass by the TSBD? And his "friends," Ruth Paine and husband, and DeMohrenshildt were CIA and he wasn't suspicious of them?

Harvey was so set up it was comical. The appearances in Mexico at the Cuban and Russian embassies. The pictures, supposedly of Oswald in the backyard, holding an edition of The Daily Worker and a rifle -- to prove he was a communist and was going to kill somebody with the rifle. Then his wife said she took those pictures of him at his insistence -- his own wife is incriminating him. Plus, the story always went that he left his wedding ring on the dresser for Marina to find. Only there's a photo of a wedding ring on his left hand when he was taken into custody. Even his lookalike, Lee Oswald, was framing him by shooting out the 6th floor window. How dumb is this guy? I think Harvey was a Russian citizen of Hungarian descent. The voice on the tape from Russia in 1960 is the same voice heard on 2 radio shows and the same voice of the man arrested as Lee Harvey Oswald here in America. I think his name is Alek Hidell and the real Harvey Oswald went over to Russia.

Of course, this doesn't damn him at all. There is nothing that damns Harvey Oswald as the killer of President Kennedy.

Kathy

Kathleen wrote:

And the rest of the SS were out cleaning the crime scene, under LBJ's edict.

Now, come on, Kathleen. "The rest of the SS"? You mean Samuel Kinney, Bill Greer, Ray Kellerman, Paul Landis, Jr., Thomas Johns, Forrest V. Sorrels and others were ALL involved in "cleaning the crime scene"? Is this what you REALLY mean?

And what is your proof that anything like this was done in Dallas under the order of LBJ?

Watch Nigel Turner's "The Guilty Men." Also his former lawyer wrote a scathing book about him. Below see photos of the Secret Service Men cleaning the limo crime scene, as Johnson ordered. There are other photos in Best Evidence by David Lifton.

Kathy

Let's make one thing perfectly clear.

The lunch did not consist of chicken bones.

The bones were left-over after the meat on the bones was consumed!

Are you kidding? You mean - you're saying - you're trying to tell me that Bonnie Ray's nickname of "Insinkerator" - pulverizing chicken bones - is - isn't - you mean - it's not - it's not true?!?

Oh ... My ... Gawd. This sheds a whole new light on things, doesn't it.

To imagine someone put whole chicken legs onto a couple of slices of bread - or peeled the meat off the bones before making a sandwich of it ... and here all this time, I'd thought the man was someone who bit soda bottles open (after all, no evidence of a church key, right?).

I'm devastated. Deflated. Derailed. Deranged. Debunked. But mostly just deranged ....

Where's that emoticon with the balloon flying around at when ya need it most?

I've been trying to look this up, but have had no luck. Weren't there 2 employees of the TSBD on the fifth floor, and didn't they report later that they could hear the shell casings hitting the floor from above on the 6th floor? (I wish I had a citation for this -- maybe Harvey and Lee.)

James Worrell near the corner of Elm saw a rifle at the 6th floor window before the motorcade arrived. I guess he couldn't tell anybody because he was afraid of getting shot? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. How could he not know Kennedy was going to be killed? And according to Harvey and Lee, it was Lee Oswald, hoping onlookers would think it was Harvey.

Kathy

Early 20th Century:

James Joyce, Dr. Chekov and Eugene O'Neill.

Kathy

I would be interested how many members believe the man with the seizure in front of the TSBD had anything to do with the plot?

If the incident had anything to do with the plot, what was it intended to, or what did it, accomplish?

I believe it did have something to do with the Assassination. It served to distract people, so the other "actors" could get in position. For instance, Lee Oswald (of Harvey and Lee) entered the TSBD and went up to the 6th floor. He did shoot out the window at Kennedy's back, in an attempt to frame Harvey. Since we don't have Lee's account, we don't know how the murder weapon got there for him to use.

Kathy