David Andrews

Like I just read in a Robert Morrow post from 2010: CIA director William Colby to NY Times editor Abe Rosenthal in 1975 "New York Times editor Rosenthal asked CIA Director William Colby if the CIA ever killed anybody in this country. Colby replied, “Not in this country.” When asked who the CIA had killed Colby said, “I can’t talk about it.” Colby said, “Sometimes intelligence operations are high-risk, and sometimes they fail. Then, the question is not whether the CIA is some rogue elephant, which it never has been, but rather that we Americans made a mistake through out constitutional system.”" (Underscoring added.) [John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee, p. 968]

George, you're just not going to find anything but a consensus against Files here. We went through the Files thing ten years ago, when Dankbaar was an active poster.

1) Money; 2) Notoriety; 3) Not dying in jail or being homeless after; 4) Wim Dankbaar Don't fall for convicts.

James Files ought to get out more, y'know? Would do wonders for his disposition. Not to mention his depositions.

Who is Angirton?

I've forgotten - has Dino Brugioni given an opinion on the Oswald backyard photos? (He's in the Che documentary.)

Both Nosenko and Golitsyn false defectors, sent to bollocks Angleton.

Keywords: Dallas, gambling, betting wire, bookie, Jack Ruby, Carousel, Ocean Drive, Edmond O'Brien? My sole contribution to the thread was to mention a movie on DVD that I coincidentally saw that weekend, 711 Ocean Drive (1950) with Edmond O'Brien, in which the star built up the Mob's telephone bookie wire to new heights of moneymaking. I brought it up because there was some question on the thread as to whether illicit telephone lines were ever used to transmit betting info - and here was an example in 1950s pop culture. Early posters on the thread were suggesting that the Dallas bookie line was used to transmit assassination communications. Here's a description of the film, at least: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042176/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_101

Delete, please. .

I believe Tosh Plumlee when he says that the CIA (high-command) had nothing to do with the assassination. If JFK was a compartmentalized op run by ex-Director Dulles from his home and his office at The Farm (as David Talbot suggests), managed by Helms and Phillips, using Angleton's patsy (Oswald) and executed on the ground by the likes of David Morales, how the heck would Tosh the pilot have privy knowledge of high command intentions? Because somebody made him assurances? Somebody made Oswald assurances, too. Persons who try to make distinctions between official CIA ops and rogue ops, and former and current personnel, haven't been reading enough about CIA, and aren't taking into account the establishment that Dulles - with Harriman and Lodge on the diplomatic side - were accountable to. Anyone at CIA selected to manage or execute the assassination would have been of like mind with Dulles and his backers, and either accountable to or cooperative with the others in the op chain. Was the drug-fueled Contra war run by rogue operatives? Was the 1960s-1970s opium trade out of Vientiane a rogue op?

James Files is a non-starter as an assassination participant. Go down that road, and you're being directed away from the real authority.

Is there not another live feed without a lens change? I hope it shows that T. H. White was substituted for Ruby.

The video apparently was taken down - I hope Jackie or Greer did it!

I severely doubt that Charles Nicoletti was a shooter, and always have as long as that proposition has been around. Nicoletti's reported rifle experience consisted of deer hunting in the woods outside of Chicago. Whoever was firing, Fletcher Prouty was correct: professional-quality shooters were needed. Anonymous ones as well.

The section responsible would be considered a rogue unit within the agency. I suggest it was a compartmentalized section run by Dulles, Helms and Phillips.

T. H. White's Arthurian books were popular paperbacks when I was a kid, thanks to J. R. R. Tolkein. John Birch was "once" his own young man, missionary, soldier, and spy; and posthumously the "future" hero of the right wing, as their "first casualty of the Cold War." Nobody knows how Birch would have looked on an organization like the JBS (under another another name, of course, had he lived), but his parents were happy enough to donate his name to Robert Welch's movement, having obvious reasons to hate communism. Their vocal suspicions that the US government tried to cover up the circumstances of Birch's killing and of his last mission inside China are reminiscent of Marguerite Oswald's crusade for her own son. The last chapters of Terry Lautz's recent John Birch: A Life (Oxford University Press, and non-JBS affiliated) are a short history of the JBS, and make useful comparisons of the JBS with other American anti-communist movements. I'm reading those chapters now and will post anything related to the assassination-era climate. P. S. - Does anyone know of a good book-length history of how the US "lost" China to the communists? Several years ago I saw a review of a promising book on our post-WW II China policy decisions but have since lost the reference. Just try searching for that on Amazon, which has more China books (including mine) than China has Chinese.

Michael, take a look through the back Forum threads for discussion about a telephone gambling wire service (horses, maybe boxing or sports) figuring into Dallas and the assassination characters. I remember that I posted on that thread, if it will help you search it.

I spoke at length with one reserve DPD officer who described to me that the DPD routinely monitored locations known to be homosexual hangouts, made lists of names and provided them to FBI and the Army if military personnel were involved - just SOP, nobody thought anything about it in those times. It was assumed that homosexuals could be blackmailed and were therefore security risks. Speaking of which, was Edwin Walker never called on this during his service career? (That would be pre-DPD, of course.)

Mike - A must-read book here is Alfred McCoy's The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia. EDIT - Varnell beat me to it. Doug Valentine's work may also be of value.

A lesser known anecdote illustrates Phillips’ hatred of JFK. By 1966 he recruited—under the alias of Harold Benson—a high official of the Cuban Ministry of Construction, Nicolás Sirgado, who had been entrusted since 1962 by the CuIS to penetrate the CIA. Castro honored him at the memorial service for the victims of the 1976 Cuban passenger jet bombing in Barbados. After retiring in 1991 with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, Sirgado appeared in the Cuban TV documentary ZR Rifle (1993). He remembered that Benson “told me [about having] seized the opportunity to urinate on Kennedy’s grave, since he considered Kennedy a damned Communist.” https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/antonio-veciana-with-carlos-harrison-trained-to-kill-2

"then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves." If you Google up "metal file boxes," you'll see these narrow portable models popular in the 1960s, with a handle on the top that swung down for storage, and a key lock on the front. My parents had several in the house. Six or seven would fit n the big 'ol trunk of a 1950s-1960s car. Here's the exact brand we had, Porta-File. That thin wire handle was painful to the palm: Everybody tried to peel the stickers off to make them look professional, but the glue always trolled them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Porta-File-TANISH-Metal-Box-NO-KEY-Hamilton-Skotch-Corp-/132135956496 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-RETRO-Vintage-PORTA-FILE-GREY-Metal-Box-Hamilton-Skotch-/272614063027?hash=item3f79107bb3:g:~eYAAOSwx6pYq1GJ

Bobby Baker's 2009 Senate Historical Office interview. Highlights in the article, full transcript on page 3. Lock up the kids while reading - even if they're thirty-five. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/11/sex-in-the-senate-bobby-baker-099530?o=0 "[Kennedy] made a big speech about Algeria. I don't think many in the Senate knew where Algeria was located." * * * "The biggest disaster in the history of this country was [Robert] McNamara. Henry Ford was my good friend and he said, 'The best thing that ever happened to me was getting rid of that b*****d.' "

From the first post, the only foreknowledge story I don't know is Herbert Philbrick's. Can anyone fill in details?

There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle. What about the controversial rifle stamped "Mauser" that Roger Craig witnessed, or the mysterious second rifle glimpsed in the Alyea film?