David Andrews

I do know that EGL retired in the interim between his failure to secure the Saigon ambassadorship and the assassination date. But these guys never "retire," they just acquire new patrons. BTW, I saw the Corrs open for the Rolling Stones in 1999. Big percussion!

In the past, there has been speculation on that the famous photo taken in DP may have been one of Maxwell Taylor. I believe it is Lansdale. An important marker for identifying Lansdale from behind may be the size and shape of his head, and perhaps the length of his arms in the photo. I think this because I suspect, from looking at EGL photos, that he may have been a victim of acromegaly, a disorder of the pituitary that releases human growth hormone. Effects include elongation of the facial features, a high forehead, a "lantern jaw," and enlargement of the brows and nose (these last not relevant to Lansdale). Tallness is accentuated, and long arms and legs develop. I am wondering if there is a physician among us who could compute the height of Lansdale's head, especially from the top of the ears to the crown, and compare it to the head seen from behind in the DP photo. Also worthy of investigation would be the deformed left hand that Prouty saw in the picture, and described as "claw-like." A symptom of acromegaly? Not knowing Lansdale, it's hard for me to peg the DP photo hand to Lansdale's hands in any photo. Remember also that Prouty and Krulak agreed that the DP unsub in the photo showed a drooped right shoulder that resembled Lansdale's. Perhaps a doctor, or an expert in human recognition software, could develop measurements of Lansdale and the DP unsub to compare the right shoulders. IMO, Max Taylor had a round, compact head, rather resembling that of the actor Clark Gable. Lansdale's seems to have considerable height above the ear. Caveat: I sometimes get my hair cut with very short sides, and my head always appears "taller" above the ears for it. BTW - are there any innocent reasons for Lansdale to have been in Ft. Worth on the 21st, so that his appearance in DP on the 22nd might be argued to be a fact-finding mission?

Looking at Duncan's video, I remember the FBI/Hoover-released demurrer about the throat wound: that it happened as JFK turned to wave at someone behind the limo. Is it possible that this is adapted from a report from an eyewitness on the street (FBI or other)? The shot seems to affect JFK just after he turns his face back toward the camera after waving back. His face seems still turned perhaps ten degrees to his right when the hit registers.* Is it possible that the FBI "fabrication" about his looking backward is actually a time-adjusted confirmation of what we see happening here? *What does the facial position tell us about the source location of the throat shot?

I read something about the LAPD allowing the suit Bobby Kennedy wore at the Ambassador to be displayed in Vegas recently, as part of some law enforcement-themed hotel exhibit (maybe for a cop convention), and the Kennedy family complained, so it was removed.

The alternate story, presented in several works, is that Monroe was drugged and gang-raped on film by several men - mob types - and that the film or photos were developed back in Hollywood by Sinatra personally. Was this the ultimate insurance policy against her crossing the Kennedys? Against crossing the mob's remaining interests in the Kennedys?

Read the testimony of his supervisor, Bill Shelley. He was earning a living. WHAT A RADICAL CONCEPT! MILLIONS & MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of PEOPLE DO THE SAME THING EVERY DAY. Not everyone is a trust fund baby Ray, I don't have enough evidence to accuse Oswald or exonerate him, though I believe he was set up to be the patsy. However, this is a guy who "earned a living" by going to Moscow, then running a phony FPCC chapter in New Orleans. Can we take his employment at TSBD to be innocent? What was his mission there? Was he asked to be a double-agent, reporting on the newly created TSBD operation? What did a guy knowledgeable in cover operations (from Cuban gunrunning, etc.) think was going on at TSBD - a supposed book depository newly opened in a location that could have been prime office space. Dick Russell offers some hints, reliable or not, gleaned from Richard Case Nagell, in The Man Who Knew Too Much. I'm asking, can we get any closer to Oswald's purpose for working at the TSBD? Or for leaving work after the assassination? I thing it's important not to be ingenuous or doctrinaire about Oswald's purposes. Not doing so is to be investigative, not accusative. Without definitive evidence, a one-dimensional view of Oswald is like insisting that Bacon or the Earl of Oxford wrote Shakespeare's plays and poems. I'll stay off this thread, because I can't say either way. You say one way. What do others think? Let's start a neutralist thread.

What exactly was he doing in the TSBD? Can we establish any reason for him being there other than that being his cover job? Did he believe his job placement was innocuous? This is, supposedly, a guy who once shared office space with Guy Banister. Or do I have the wrong Oswald? What did he believe he was doing there?

This effort should include organizing at the state and local levels. It should include electing to the US House of Representatives individuals who cannot be purchased by the multinational corporations and special interest groups. Where do we find such persons today? The Founding Fathers' consensus - even Jefferson's, to a degree - was that faction should be avoided by choosing candidates for office from among those with a financial stake in the nation and the manner of its development. In effect, they wanted landowners, the proto-special interest group. After all, the reason Aaron Burr was mistrusted in his lifetime is that he was a player and a speculator, an urban mover rather than a rural squire, and as such showed himself willing to shift allegiances. Where do we find candidates today who are, and will remain, innocent of corporate interests, and especially of banking or investment ties? (The latter associations being the betes noir of many early statesmen, and of several presidents.) How many house reps voted for the banking and stock market deregulation that cost us all so much?

Aw, Glenn - you joined too late to catch this old thread-killer of mine...LHO as Bobby Darin. Surely, as Sinatra said, this deserves a Reprise: "What about Jenny Diver! - Hup! Hup! Hey-ey, Suki Tawdry! - Ho! Look out for Miss Lotte Lenya! And ol' Lucy Brown! - Hee! Oh, the line forms - on the right, babe..."

I keep a dish of salt handy when I read/hear Prouty, just in case. But I take him seriously on the Lansdale ID in Dealey Plaza. Is Charlie Harrelson really smiling with relief as Lansdale passes him, though? Would Lansdale know such a lowlife? If Lansdale and Harrelson didn't know each other, could there have been some sort of quasi-Masonic high sign flashed, as imagined in JFK? Is there any military connection through which Harrelson might have worked under Lansdale?

Jim, I'm just generalizing an actual modern cover-up over to a hypothetical modern situation (assassination), and mostly for BK's amusement. Am I far out of line, intellectually? Oswald was the only guy who didn't escape on 11/22/63, unless you count Tippit and Ruby, and a lot of witnesses later. I think Peter Dale Scott would back me up here. I wish I could pull him out for you, like Woody Allen did Marshall McLuhan in Annie Hall

With all respect - I believe it depends on who sanctions the killing.

Again, remember Jim Marrs' remark in Crossfire, that Kennedy was killed by s Centrist coup, one that united groups of various political stripe that opposed him. It is difficult to imagine that some of the authorities who facilitated the assassination and covered it up would be loyal to any one ideology, even if they were committed to the ending that occurred.

Apart from studying networks, there is comparison of what we might call career paradigms in CIA service of the anti-Castro period. My point: we may be able to learn things about what Bush was or wasn't up to by examining the acts and involvements of that older, wealthier supplier of ships and materiel - William Pawley.

Absolutely. Texas "small oil" couldn't make a move, or enlist CIA-DIA-SS, without support of the biggest of Big Oil, which helped create the Federal Reserve. All presidencies from FDR on down ought to be evaluated in relation to the Rockefellers - esp. those where assassination politics were used, and a successor waited in the wings: Nixon (impeached), Ford (attempted assassination), Reagan (attempted assassination). G. W. Bush? Obama?

Not to mix it up here again - but the SS (in the persons of Kellerman, Roberts, Youngblood, Rowley) engaged in enough suspicious activity to be considered an independent, if not autonomous, faction in events. Why does any SS agent have to be CIA, rather than hooked into the plot from within that faction?

Here's the link to an AUDIO ONLY multi-part upload on YouTube. The Carson estate probably has the video locked down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-za5aMy4w UPDATE: This is not the version I listened to within the last year, in which the audio ran all the way to the Three Tramps photo and the cutoff of the interview. This Von Pein upload ends before the famous cutoff... If I can find complete audio again, I'll post the link.

Carson opposed having Garrison on his show, and did as much as he could to diminish him that night - possibly because of JG's notoriety and smeared reputation, and aside from any pressure from NBC and its owners. It was NBC that insisted that Carson have JG on. But when Garrison pulled out the Three Tramps photo, Carson's immediate concern and primal fear might have been that he and NBC could be sued by the subjects in the pictures. So cutting the presentation at that point may have been for legal worries rather than conspiracy cover-up. The complicating, unexpected photo was probably the straw that snapped the whole enterprise for Johnny.

That the last shot sounded "different" is one of the things favoring a shot from the storm drain. A shot from there would also leave a gunpowder smell at street level. Jack Which we cannot at this time rule out, either. If I had my preferences, I'd call it all rifle work. But I cannot have my preferences. New insight into old inquiry comes out when you least expect it. The other night, I watched an episode of the documentary series Mobsters on the Biography channel. The episode was about Anthony Spilotro, immortalized (under another name) by Joe Pesci in the movie Casino. In it - during a segment on Spilotro's Chicago days - mention was made of Sam Giancana found dead with one slug in the back of the neck, and the rest in the mouth, not stitched around the mouth in the supposed Mob "message to stoolies" pattern we've all read of repeatedly. Two crime scene photos, purportedly of Giancana on his basement kitchen floor, seemed to bear out the narration - blood behind the head, no "stitching" pattern around the mouth. It was so unexpected. I'm trying find the photos to verify it. We weren't there. We don't know. The "record" is insubstantiable. Until such time as we can substantiate it.

Jim, none of this comedy refutes any point that I made. It is, in fact, the sort of business that your detractors might use against you.

I hear you, Jim. But - We weren't there. We don't know. The photo/film evidence is highly suspect. So, Horne is within his rights of commentary, and I'm keeping an open mind. I am just not willing to rule it out, based on the evidence available. I do not insist - cannot insist - on Greer as fact. But I defend Horne's right to mention the possibility, though it is obviously not an issue on which consensus can, or should, be sought at this time. Consider the statements of Austin P. Miller and Hugh Betzner, and of Ralph Yarborough, who originally claimed to smell gunpowder inside the car. Moorman and Hill on a gun pulled in the car? Devil's Advocate? From personal experience, it is extremely hard to place a pistol shot accurately with one hand, much less under those conditions (left hand, moving car). BTW - do we know what kind of pistols SS were carrying in the motorcade? Ever been researched by Palamara or other?

Not to propagate the Greer theory, but Clint Hill's comment to the WC that the last round fired sounded different, like a pistol shot, has always intrigued me. Delivered where Hill's comment was, it sounds not unlike a veiled revelation. For insurance purposes? To direct later investigation? I'll only note that I can see, based on film experience and researchers' commentary, that enough alteration has been made to the Z-film that Greer can't be formally and authoritatively ruled out. Not until another Z-film or similar film emerges. We may think it improbable, but Horne is essentially within his rights of commentary as the case stands.

Well - at least people can look at alternate theories on the internet while visiting. Maybe Robert Groden could have signs made listing good websites to check out - I'm only half-kidding!

What did Jim Bishop have to say on that score?

Oh, I'll be looking at this in some detail tonight. Any 9/11-related surprises? The purported JB link in your post #5 isn't working.