Dean Hagerman

That was interesting post David, thank you

I hope Jim will come on and tell us his true feelings

I hope that Jim is not one of the Holocaust deniers

If he claims to be then I can not back him up any longer on any issue

Dean, my friend, you appear to be a nice guy, but I'm afraid you're a bit, well, naive.

I note the operative phrase of your post (used twice) is "I hope."

Yes, hope is something we should all have. But excessive hope can have its frustrating downside.

Whatever Fetzer's "true feelings," and whatever that term means (as applied to this situation), remember the old adage: Actions speak louder than words.

In a future post, I will set forth the words and actions of many of Fetzer's co-developers at the Rediscover 9/11 site. As will be manifestly obvious, they are mostly anti-Semitic Jew haters, and holocaust deniers. And of course Fetzer knows who these people are, and what they represent: They are his close associates, at that site; and his own webmaster (Lola Heavy) is the webmistress of that site.

Let me tell you a story about "true feelings" and how appearances can be deceiving. I am harking back 45 years, and it is almost comical, but here goes.

In 1965, when I had been in Los Angeles for about 3 years, and working on the U.S. space program (yes, Project Apollo, to go to the moon, a goal I believe we did indeed achieve, and more than once) and at a time when I was attending UCLA, I was waiting for the main elevator on the lobby level of the main UCLA library, when the doors opened, and one of the most attractive blonds I have ever seen exited. (Play music from Twilight Zone. . ) I froze, promptly did a 180, thought of some reason to start a conversation, was successful, and within a week had made plans for a "first date"-- to attend a concert of the L A Philharmonic.

This beauty was pursuing a graduate degree--and so I assumed that she was intelligent as she was attractive. Why not? Was she not enrolled in the Ph.D program of a major university? And don't we assume certain basics, when a person has academic credentials?

As I drove downtown on the Santa Monica Freeway towards the L.A. Music Center, she said (in a low voice that indicated she trusted me to provide accurate information--and remember, this was BEFORE I became well known as a JFK researcher), "David, I must ask you something." . . PAUSE. .and then she posed her question, one which was apparently very much on her mind; and, as befits such a query, she asked in a most serious vein: "David, is it true that Jews have horns?"

This lady was pursuing a Ph.D. in Communications Science at UCLA. She came from a small town in Ohio, and this is what--apparently--she had been taught. She was not joking, and in asking me about the condition of my own forehead (as well as asking me to provide confidential information about the foreheads of other Jews I have known) she might as well have been asking me a private medical question (or maybe she had spent too much time examining MOSES, by Michelangelo). I concealed my amazement, and answered that no, that was not so for me, and not for anyone else I knew.(I probably turned to my right, so she could get a good look at my forehead).

That was our last date, but she went on to win a Ph.D in communications, and I suppose, is still teaching somewhere in the U.S.

What were her "true feelings"? I have no idea, and after that incident, I didn't care.

Let me provide what is possibly a more reliable indicator of Fetzer's "true feelings," and again--this goes back to "the company he keeps," and the old saying, "Birds of a feather. . "

As you may know, Fetzer was recently part of a conference in London, in which two of the main persons were himself and his former cohort Kevin Barrett, another who believes that 9/11 was an "inside job," and an Israeli/Jewish neo con operation. Just two weeks ago, one of the contributors on an Internet discussion group pertaining to terrorism, an 9/11, wrote the following, a few days before this London conference where Fetzer and Barrett were to appear. The poster--another holocaust denier, who views the holocaust as "the holohoax"--was urging his associate to attend the conference, take some pictures, and post them on the net. Then, addressing the matter of Jim Fetzer's attendance, he expressed his displeasure with Fetzer, who was clearly too "liberal" for him, and in these terms:

QUOTE:

Fetzer pisses me off on his whole, [and] most probably pretended, ignorance of the holohoax issue, big time, but [Kevin] Barrett [another who, as just noted, also believes Israel was complicit in 9/11] is cool. Both Fetzer and Barrett are very hip . . . and by now pretty much consider 9-11 to be an Israeli operation." UNQUOTE

So this is the buzz, the real "insider talk" when it comes to Fetzer, and gives you a sense of the kind of folks that come to hear Jim Fetzer, Ph.D, Distinguished McKnight Professor, etc etc. come and "educate" them on these issues. Then commenting on a third speaker, this same poster then said that "I don't know about Atzmon but as of right now he seems like a cool Jew. . ."

". . .a cool Jew. . " A neat phrase. I never heard my rabbi use it, but oh well. . .In any event, rest assured he was not talking about jazz musician Benny Goodman.

So this is the world Fetzer now inhabits; or, to revert back to my satire, the duck pond in which he swims; or, shall I say, paddles around.

Anyway, you are of course free to ask Fetzer to exit the duck pond for a bit, dry off, and tell you of his "true feelings". You are certainly free to approach him, and exhort him, saying, in effect, "Jim, say it ain't so!" and "Jim, you're not one of them. . . . are you?"

Let me give you this "heads up": For the record, Fetzer has been careful never to say he DIS-believes the holocaust; just that, like everything else he propounds, its an issue that people have the right to discuss and debate. In other words, like a patriot who wraps himself in the flag, Fetzer, when he exits the pond, wraps himself in a towel that reads "intellectual freedom." That's his mantra. His license to drive at 150 MPH on the superhighway that is the Internet.

Is it possible that 2 + 2 = 6? Well, probably not, but shouldn't we have the right to debate it?

Fetzer likes to blast Thompson for being excessively agnostic--and maybe he is. But here's an interesting question. If you had to make a choice, with whom would you rather hitch a ride, if you needed to get downtown--someone who drives at 35, when the speed limit is 50? Or someone who goes at 150 MPH, and drives a car with no brakes?

Welcome to the world of Jim Fetzer. Just about everything is "debatable" and he just loves the attention that comes his way by defending the implausible, and often the absurd.

DSL

7/22/10; 2:45 AM PDT

Los Angeles, CA

I say "I hope" David because if Jim came right out and said that the Holocoust never happened, or yes Dean im anti-semitic

Then I would have said Jim I cant back you up on anything at all

The hope part is because I hope that at this day in age there is no reason what so ever to be anti-semitic, and I never saw Jim as having those kind of thoughts

However (trust me I am not naive) im sure that there are millions of anti-semitic people in the world, but im sure only a small part of those people would admit publicly to it

Thats why I asked Jim if it was true, I believe him

Thanks for all the info Jack

Im going to read and watch tomorrow

If you think of any more info post a link or just post it in this thread and I will read it

Have a good night Jack

Jim like I stated before I didnt believe you were anti-semitic

I just wanted to see you say that you were not

It is difficult to even converse with people who are not familiar with the latest information on 911.

Forget the latest info, im not even familiar with the old info

I dont think 9-11 was an inside job at all, just like Pearl Harbor was not an inside job, and just like the Apollo moon landings, I know that in 1969 Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon

So the bottom line is that because of my obsession with history I know alot about these subjects, but I have never looked into them as being conspiracys because I believe that we landed on the moon and that 9-11 was a terrorist attack and that Japan snuck up on us at Pearl Harbor

I am a CT on only two subjects of which I know for sure that both were a conspiracy

1. Kennedy assassination

2. Lincoln assassination

Bill

Just so you know I was being sarcastic about McAdams sending him over here to fill up my inbox (im sure the guy just kept hitting send because the message wouldnt go through)

I need to start putting spoilers with (sarcasm) and (just a joke) in my posts from now on

That was interesting post David, thank you

I hope Jim will come on and tell us his true feelings

I hope that Jim is not one of the Holocaust deniers

If he claims to be then I can not back him up any longer on any issue

I have no problem with that Craig

However I am a very busy with work, so you need to give me some time to look into it Craig

I have studied Betzner more then any other still photo, however my studies had nothing to do with JFKs suit

Cliff feel free to contact me through PM with your thoughts to get me going

That is very sad.

I'll tell you what's "sad." Getting 17 messages from you over a 16 minute period. I've just had notifications to my private e-mail telling me that you sent 17 messages to me. Don't blame the software because I've messaged people yesterday and today on the forum and it's fine.

In fact the messages have the same content but have two different subject headers, "That's all" and "I'm done", so you're obviously just trying to fill mine and Dean's EF Inboxes.

Please, live up to your message "subjects" and sling your hook away from me? I've had my fill dealing with creepy, weird people on this forum.

17!

This guy is out of control

And im with Lee on this, no way its the forum software sending messages over and over because I recieved two other messages yesterday and they only sent one time and my replies were sent one time

What are you trying to do? Fill up mine and Lee's inboxs so we cant get any important "CT" messages?

This guy is using some backwards tactics for sure

McAdams gave him his mission as follows, find two outspoken CTs and fill their inboxs up so they can not talk with other CTs, if we keep this going we will shut down the CT network!

Let me add here that I have great admiration for Gary Mack's honesty and desire always to be reasonable, fair and objective, as well as helpful,

Thank you Cliff and Craig

Im gonna go with Cliff on this one

How in the world could JFKs jacket bunch up that much in such a short (and I mean super short) period of time?

Was JFK doing jumping jacks between Towner/Croft and Betzner that not only was missed by every cameraman but by every witness as well?

Craig common sense says that kind of fold/bunching cant just "happen" out of the blue

And like another member said JFK was not wearing some cheap suit, it was a tailored form fitting expensive suit

No way its going to just bunch up like that from JFK waving his hand

I will take a look Len, but again from what I know about Jim I just cant see him having those kinds of anti-semitic leanings

I would not have said a word about your emails because I dont share emails and as you can see I did not post what you said to me, nor would I post what you said to me because I agree that emails are private

However I recieved 9 of the same email from you, of course its either a bug or you kept hitting send over and over

Bottom line is that you can have any views that you want, but dont come in here guns blazing claiming to know more about the assassination then anyone that posts on this forum

Thats just an insult to pretty much all of us

I would love to debate you just to show you up and make you feel like you know very little about the assassination

Any time my friend

And please debate Jim DiEugenio first because I have no problem with the fact that Jim knows more then I do, so let him spank you first and I will clean up what ever Jim leaves behind (Trust me it wont be much)

Cliff (and Craig) I have a quick question

At what point between all the photos taken on Houston showing the back of the jacket and then up to Betzner through Towner and Croft did JFKs jacket happen to bunch up so much?

I am not at all saying I disbelieve either you or Craig

I have been trying to find an explanation of when this fold happened, I have tried to read back through the threads on the subject but its just to much for me to find

Please tell me when you think this fold/bunching happened because the amount of time between Croft and Betzner is so small

I might be seeing this the wrong way and if thats not your position I apologize, its just that I have not been following this debate between you and Craig very closly and now im interested

Who cares when it happened Dean, that is really meaningless because SOMETHING is creating the artifact seen in Betzner. It's there, no need to speculate HOW or WHEN it happened because by Betzner...it has happened.

The only question with any merit that remains is WHAT CAUSED the artifact.

How can you say that when or how it happened is meaningless?

You know thats important, you cant ignore that Craig

Cliff (and Craig) I have a quick question

At what point between all the photos taken on Houston showing the back of the jacket and then up to Betzner through Towner and Croft did JFKs jacket happen to bunch up so much?

I am not at all saying I disbelieve either you or Craig

I have been trying to find an explanation of when this fold happened, I have tried to read back through the threads on the subject but its just to much for me to find

Please tell me when you think this fold/bunching happened because the amount of time between Croft and Betzner is so small

I might be seeing this the wrong way and if thats not your position I apologize, its just that I have not been following this debate between you and Craig very closly and now im interested

The way the evidence proved the guilt of Sacco & Vanzetti. The way the evidence proved the guilt of 'The Guildford Four.' The way the evidence proved the guilt of 'The Birmingham Six.' The way the evidence proved the guilt of Abraham Bolden. The way the evidence proved the guilt of Elmer Pratt.

The way the evidence proved the guilt of Joan of Arc?

Hey Lee have you ever looked into "The West Memphis 3"?

If you have not then please do, if you think Sacco and Vanzetti and the rest of the people you posted about got railroaded just wait until you read about the WM3 (unless you already know about them)

I've never looked into them Dean although I have heard about them. I'll have a little gander online and see what's available...

Thanks - Hope you're well

Im good Lee, I hope you are doing good as well

Im sure you will find the WM3 case very interesting

This guy is out of control

He just sent me 9 emails telling me how he is done with me!

No joke, 9 of the same emails!

Stop sending me emails right now

I must say, that even with this being considered you come across as being incredibly arrogant

Any arrogance I have ever shown on any forum is put to shame by this guys amazing arrogance

No matter how much I know about the assassination this forum alone is filled with researchers who know much much more then I do

To Hagerman, yes, you can smile, since in fact, it is not that I know as much as you, but a lot more than you.

I have researched the Kennedy assassination thoroughly for twenty years and have compiled an extensive library

Well guess what Frank, according to the points you are trying to make im positive you do not know "a lot" more about the assassination then I do

See I have researched the assassination thoroughly for 22 years and im positive my massive assassination library puts your small bookshelf to shame

But since you have no idea who I am I can forgive you for thinking the way that you do

You would curl up on the ground and weep like a 2 year old if you saw what books I own

I have so many rare and exspensive books on the assassination that I myself shake my head in amazement when I look over and see all my babies lined up perfectly, row after row

It brings a tear to the eye

Come on Len, are you trying to say that Fetzer is an anti-semite?

If thats what your trying to say I think you are way off base

The way the evidence proved the guilt of Sacco & Vanzetti. The way the evidence proved the guilt of 'The Guildford Four.' The way the evidence proved the guilt of 'The Birmingham Six.' The way the evidence proved the guilt of Abraham Bolden. The way the evidence proved the guilt of Elmer Pratt.

The way the evidence proved the guilt of Joan of Arc?

Hey Lee have you ever looked into "The West Memphis 3"?

If you have not then please do, if you think Sacco and Vanzetti and the rest of the people you posted about got railroaded just wait until you read about the WM3 (unless you already know about them)

I do not claim to know better than them.

Well which is it Francois?

I know as much as anybody here.

JFK Interview ostensibly addresses "Lone Nuts" and the "son" of one, Craig Lamb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txIismezLAo&feature=player_embedded

That voice is perfect!

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=lm0SCspDOjQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Sacco+Vanzetti&source=bl&ots=IcxrRKjzyo&sig=5uRL4AqoBXD5uHm8dwKAOn8Ayz8&hl=en&ei=4TEvTKGDE47JcZLaqdAD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

I wish to know what type of Anarchists these two men were. Libertarians, syndicalists. There are a number of flavours but most references to SnV just say Anarchists. The above book seems to shed more light on it but does not appear to be definitive. Their own descriptions seems to indicate a syndicalist flavour.

John, Sacco and Vanzetti were Insurrectionary Anarchists and also involved in Anarchist Communism

Both S and V followed Luigi Galleani

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Galleani

I have studied the Sacco and Vanzetti case for years

I have so many thoughts on the case it would take months to post them all