Dean Hagerman

I do not believe people having affairs would want their picture taken together.

Depends.

If it's a "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" type of affair your belief may be right. If the two people are in love I would say the likelihood of a photograph increases and depends upon the people involved.

I understand that JVB claims she was "in love" with Lee and vice-versa.

Good call Lee

Hey Dean do you remember Scott Peterson?

Remember all the pictures of him and Amber Frye when they were having an affair?

I would love to hear what you have to say about that since I answered all your questions for you and you ignored all my answers on the first page of this thread

Jim

Ask me a series of questions about alteration, the films, the photos, the double head shot, Betzner, Altgens, Zapruder or any area of the assassination that I find important and have studied and I promise I will give you long detailed answers that will show you my "intellectual resources"

Like Jack said Judyth is not important even if she is telling the truth

I have read tons of Judyths posts and emails back in the day Jim

I have felt this way for a long time

Dean

You must have stunning powers to be able to tell so much based upon so little. I think the principle that motivates your answers is simple: if it undermines Judyth's story, accept it; if not, reject it. This is a very sad commentary on your intellectual resources, Dean. You need to have GOOD REASONS both for accept and for rejecting. I am sorry, but you have offered no GOOD REASONS for rejecting Anna Lewis, for denying that she knew Oswald, for doubting that they had an affair, or for any of your other claims. You would even reject a photograph of them together on the grounds that it MIGHT HAVE BEEN faked. I am astounded that you would expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim you could tell that she is a fake FIVE MINUTES into "The Love Affair"! You are operating beyond the bounds of reason, alas, where discounting logic and evidence is the opposite of what I stand for in relation to JFK research.

Here it goes Dean

Q. Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

A. Yes

Q. Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

A. No

Q.If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee

A. Dont believe Anna Lewis for even one second

Q.Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

A. No

Q. If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

A. I do not believe Anna Lewis for even 1/10th of a second

Q.Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

A. No way in hell

Q. If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans

A. Change of pace? Wanted to go to Tulane instead of Florida? Road Trip?

Q.Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

A. Explain what? She was a good science student? Ok I believe that Judyth was a good science student

Q.Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

A. I dont believe Judyth ever touched a prisoner let alone did an experiment on one

Q. Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses"

A. A picture or film of Judyth and Lee together

Q. Did you disbelieve JVB from the start?

A. No, I believed Judyth until about 5 minutes into her segment on TMWKK then I didnt believe her

Q. Explain why you participated at all

A. Because I didnt want to see what happened to Martin Shackleford happen to Jim, a researcher I respect more then he will ever know

Judyth is telling a fairy tale

I hope this helps you understand my position Dean

Dean

Here it goes Dean

Q. Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

A. Yes

Q. Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

A. No

Q.If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee

A. Dont believe Anna Lewis for even one second

Q.Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

A. No

Q. If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

A. I do not believe Anna Lewis for even 1/10th of a second

Q.Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

A. No way in hell

Q. If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans

A. Change of pace? Wanted to go to Tulane instead of Florida? Road Trip?

Q.Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

A. Explain what? She was a good science student? Ok I believe that Judyth was a good science student

Q.Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

A. I dont believe Judyth ever touched a prisoner let alone did an experiment on one

Q. Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses"

A. A picture or film of Judyth and Lee together

Q. Did you disbelieve JVB from the start?

A. No, I believed Judyth until about 5 minutes into her segment on TMWKK then I didnt believe her

Q. Explain why you participated at all

A. Because I didnt want to see what happened to Martin Shackleford happen to Jim, a researcher I respect more then he will ever know

Judyth is telling a fairy tale

I hope this helps you understand my position Dean

Dean

Even if her stories were 100% true, they are insignificant.

This is where I agree with Jack 100%

How does a very short affair with LHO and Judyth, as well as Judyth claiming to meet all these strange people come into play with helping to solve the assassination?

I dont need Judyth to make me believe Oswald knew Ferrie, I already believe that!

I dont need Judyth to tell me that Oswald knew Bannister, I already believe that!

I dont need Judyth to tell me that Ferrie knew Shaw, I already believe that!

I have photographic proof that Oswald is in fact circumcised

The autopsy photograph I have leaves no doubt that he is

Add this with the autopsy report and we have a for sure strike against Judyth that she had no idea and just guessed that he wasnt

If she had as she said a hot and heavy love affair she would know for SURE if he was or was not circumcised

She said he was NOT

We know for a fact that he WAS

Produce the photo.

Kathy C

Kathy I have the photo, trust me

I will not post it on this forum for obvious reasons and I will not email it to anybody until I have a chance to view some other photos

Please wait, that is all I can say

Very interesting

Early Judyth, excerpt from an e-mail ... from October 2000.

Subj: Re: test

Date: 10/6/00 3:49:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Americanwebworks

To: Dreitzes

CC: Howpl

(.........................)

i am not interested in maing any money or peddling a book. I got an

agent hoping to get the book i wrote--which put everything down in

detail before i talked to anybody, and then had a professor keep a

truncated version of it in caseanything happened to me--that shows i

have never deviated from my account from the first. however, if people

ask me something, i will add information. For exakple, Debra Conway

asked me intimate questions about Lee, since she knew information from

things i never knew existed. Example: was lee circumcized? (no). The

pointnis that whatever i might not have thought to put down, if

somebody asked, i emailed them .....

(.......)

God bless you,Dave,

Judyth V. Baker

Per Oswald autopsy report:

The penis is circumcised.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H26_CE_3002.pdf

Circumcision comment is third to last comment in second paragraph.

Barb :-)

I have photographic proof that Oswald is in fact circumcised

The autopsy photograph I have leaves no doubt that he is

Add this with the autopsy report and we have a for sure strike against Judyth that she had no idea and just guessed that he wasnt

If she had as she said a hot and heavy love affair she would know for SURE if he was or was not circumcised

She said he was NOT

We know for a fact that he WAS

The point was made

I understand it

I have exchanged PMs with Jim about it and he accepted my apology

Thats all, I do not like homeless people because of what happened to me, I was not born hating homeless people

Use this Dean.

Free Screen Capture Software

No software needed. On a PC just hit control>PrtScn

Open a new document in Photoshop and hit paste.

Done.

I cant believe I didnt remember this but Duncan gave me a link to dowload an awesome (IMO) software called Photoscape and it has a Screen Capture option that works great

I used it to capture all the images

Thanks for the tips

admitted acting as judge, jury and executioner against a homeless person - who was inebriated I might add, and therefore unlikely to be able to defend himself against such a spineless attack. [/color]

Please show me the post in which I claimed to "attack" a homeless person Greg

Dont accuse me of something I did not say

I think you need to go back and read what I wrote very slowly

All I did was tell him to please not use that type of vulgar language in front of my wife and other customers

I would say this Greg

If I was going through Jury selection on a Trial for lets say a Homeless man who killed another person I would make sure the Defense knew about my feelings and my past dealings with Homeless people so that the Homeless man would get a fair trial by having me not sit on the Jury

I believe everybody deserves a fair trial, and I would be man enough to make sure that I was not on the jury to sway another juror with my feelings about Homeless people

Im not trying to drag this on Greg, I just want you to know I have strong feelings about alot of things, getting a fair trial no matter who the accused is one of those things

Now do you see why I have a strong opinion Greg

If you say yes I see why you have a strong opinion I promise I will never bring up the subject of Bums again

You have my word

Yes, I see why you have a strong opinion [about bums].

However, Jim's friends are NOT "bums" -- Jim never identified them as "bums" -- So, let's continue this thread about Judyth and her credibility and admit ALL evidence--even that which comes from formerly homeless persons (not bums), or from Mormons (not polygamists), or from Catholic priests (not pedophiles), or from Germans (not Nazis), etc, etc.

Thank you

Lets move it along

Jim im sorry I called your friends Bums, I was feeling defensive torwards your insults and should not have said that about them

Please dont insult me and I will not speak to you in a harsh way

Dean,

If you will re-read my post you'll note that I acknowledged your right to your own opinion. But, we're not talking about your SPECIAL 3 YEAR LONG circumstances! We are talking about individual human beings (Jim's friends) whom you know nothing about aside from what Jim has told you. Therefore, what you claimed to be necessarily true about Jim's friends is demonstrably a false statement. Your judgment of them is not necessarily accurate. This is logically inescapable, and--as such--it is therefore a false statement.

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

MonK:

Your point is well taken but I think these criticisms of Dean are exaggerated. Any of us, rightly or wrongly and probably wrongly, would be more skeptical of the testimony of a homeless person. A common jury instruction is that the jury can consider the demeanor of the witnesses and the manner in which they testify. This started with Jim criticizing that Dean was not impressed with the demeanor of watching Judyth. Jim attacked him and Dean then became defensive. He can judge things as he wishes and he would not be alone in his observations of Judyth or his skepticism of homeless people being the sole substantiation of points made by Judyth. Dean has been a valuable contributor and participant in the forum. I believe this is a diversion from the isues and we should move on.

Doug Weldon

Well said Doug, I am feeling like I have to defend myself against Jims attacks on me, maybe I should let it go

Im willing to move forward

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

Did I miss something Greg?

I have not nor would I ever call you a name

Well then, you still might consider me "cool" as opposed to "uncool"-- I guess?

Let me elaborate on what I said in order to make my position clearer. Dean, I don't claim to know what your 3 year long experience with homeless people was like. But, I have no reason to doubt that you are telling the truth about your personal perception of them. If you thought I was saying that your reportage of your Seattle Homeless experience was untrue--I apologize. That is NOT what I was saying.

That is what I got from part of your post

Thank you for clearing it up

Greg

Maybe this will help you

I lost income because of Bums

Do you know how many customers walked away and did not order when a bum came in asking for money

Do you know how many customers walked out because I had to either drag one outside myslef or scream in their face to get lost

You know what the Seattle Police told me Greg? "You dont have to call us, just remove them from your property, if they take a swing at you then call us"

They didnt care, they didnt want me to call, in fact an officer told me to drag them outside real rough and they wont come back

I am not making that up

I lost money every day

I lost money every day

I LOST MONEY EVERY DAY

Now do you see why I have a strong opinion Greg

If you say yes I see why you have a strong opinion I promise I will never bring up the subject of Bums again

You have my word

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

Did I miss something Greg?

I have not nor would I ever call you a name

I think what happened here is Dean stepped in it when he said something (however true) not politically correct. So now he'll have to pay for it forever.

Kathy C

I tried to stay out of this, but I can't! Kathy, are you serious? What Dean said was demonstrably UNTRUE. He is entitled to his opinion and to any biases or prejudices that suit him. However, his right to an opinion, based on his own personal biases/prejudices, does not render fallacious conclusions "truthful" in any event. Could his judgment of Jim's friends be true? No--at least not as stated. As stated his assertions are totally unsupported. By his own admission, the experience he had in one special circumstance is now tainting his judgment of this totally new and separate circumstance. He is judging the two as if they are one in the same, but they are not.

Adding insult to injury, it is less than credible for him to attempt to portray his position as a strategic move to demonstrate to Jim "how it feels" -- sorry, but "that dog don't hunt" --

To quote Dean from an earlier post: WEAK.

Wow

Greg you said "one special circumstance"

3 years Greg!

Let me say it again because im sure you missed it by the sound of your Weak attempt to make me feel bad

3 years Greg!

Every day

All day long

You know how many customers I lost because of Bums?

How would you feel if a worthless Bum called your wife a whore in front of you Greg? (Dont worry Greg I caught that very Bum all alone in my parking lot stumbling drunk one late night with nobody around but him and I)

How would you like cleaning their horrid stinking clothes out of the bathroom everyday?

How would you like cleaning up their piss and vomit?

How would you like trying to help them and they refuse work and laugh at your offer?

Dont tell me what I say is UNTRUE

What I say is truth, what I say happened to me every day for 3 straight years Greg not "one special circumstance"

I really thought you were a cool guy Greg but now I see because you view homeless people differently then I do that Im wrong

Of course Fetzer insults me over and over and you say nothing about it

Is any description of the two men available?

The wanted persons in this are both slender white males about 30, 5-feet-10, 165, carrying what looks to be a thirty-thirty or some type of Winchester. They look eerily alike.

One left in a light colored rambler station wagon being driven by a Mexican or a Cuban. The other boarded a bus.

"The prints lifted from the thirty-thirty match those of Malcolm Wallace" said securtiy guard, Gary Mack. Curator Mack has been moonlighting as a security guard since interest in the "Oswald done it all by his lonesome" shrine has diminished during the recent recession. According to sources, lack of interest is more due to disappointment in those seeking the truth than it is due to the recession.

JF said:And they are far more intelligent, better educated and interesting than you.

Hagerman is joining Vicklund and Junkkarrinen in my killfile. FYA it is the 'ignore user' option in 'your controls'

Go hide from all the "bad" people Pamela

There but by the grace of God do any of us go.

Im an Athiest, so your god giving gift to the homless does nothing for me

I tried to help them they didnt want to work

Im not giving them something that I worked hard for

This is what my experience with homeless people have been

I am going off my experience, everyday for 3 years, I doubt most of you have had that kind of time spent with homeless people

I do not believe all homeless are like the ones I delt with however...

I will not change my views on them, I will never give a homeless person a dime, I will never give a homless person anything

If you dont like that then im sorry but how do my views on the homeless translate into my views on the assassination Pamela?

Can you possibly be this dumb?

As dumb as your homeless friends?

Nope

Dean, please - you certainly must realize that not all of the homeless are drunken bums. There are a lot of homeless people out there who are decent, upstanding people who have fallen on hard times.

Todd

You know I realize this, im not that dense

I just want to let Jim know how it feels to act like a complete jerk towards someone because they dont agree with them, even if that person has backed them up and thought of him as his voice in the assassination community

That makes no sense. How exactly do you think your anti-homeless ranting could possibly make Fetzer (or anyone else for that matter) feel how it is to be a complete jerk?

Read the first post on this page

Use this Dean.

Free Screen Capture Software

Duncan

Thank you, but will a screen capture be abel to give me the same quailty as saving the hard image?

I will give it a shot

Not only have your previous posts displayed a complete absence of moral

character and gross insensitivity to the plight of others less fortunate than

you, but your intellectual failings are manifest. You draw an inference from

stereotypical claims about homeless in Seattle to two persons I admire (for

extremely good reasons) in London and trash them without even reflecting

upon what I told you about them.

Todd and everybody

Please read this

Now look back at how Jim has treated me in this thread

Think very hard about Jims words

Think very hard about the Pot calling the Kettle black

It feels like crap to have someone you care about get talked to like that doesnt it Jim?

Now put yourself in my shoes before you respond and call me a stupid brute

Can you possibly be this dumb?

As dumb as your homeless friends?

Nope

Dean, please - you certainly must realize that not all of the homeless are drunken bums. There are a lot of homeless people out there who are decent, upstanding people who have fallen on hard times.

Todd

You know I realize this, im not that dense

I just want to let Jim know how it feels to act like a complete jerk towards someone because they dont agree with them, even if that person has backed them up and thought of him as his voice in the assassination community

Can you possibly be this dumb?

As dumb as your homeless friends?

Nope