Dean Hagerman
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Posts posted by Dean Hagerman
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I only ask that you do more than just take the images at face value especially when referred to as PROOF.
Who referred to the Turner image as PROOF?
You have no idea of what you are talking about, I am interested in the photo because it shows Jack and Larry on the bumper of a car standing behing the fence
This is important to me because of what Skinny Holland saw (Puff of smoke, mud on the bumper, footprints) and I have never seen a picture with anyone standing on the bumper behind the fence
I know that the Turner picture is not a re-creation as Jack has told you over and over yet you keep thinking we have to compare the Turner image to the Moorman image to see if the sizes fit, I could care lees about your GIF, it is useless! The Turner picture is not accurate!
Why dont you go to Dallas with 3 friends and do an accurate re-creation yourself? You keep asking why it hasnt been done in 40s years, go do it yourself
I dont need that for me to back the Badgeman theory as I have for 20+ years
“You keep asking why it hasnt been done in 40s years, go do it yourself”
It HAS been done.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/badgeman.htm
…specifically at…
Todd I cant save those pictures
Can you Email them to me?
I think I gave you my Email addy before but I will PM it to you just in case
Thanks Todd
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It was my intention not to post again, but I am making an exception for you.
Your mediocrity has astounded me. And now you compound it with ignorant
remarks about two admirable human beings you know nothing about? You
had better hope you never fall on hard times, Dean, because you wouldn't
last a day on the streets of London. The disappointment, alas, is all mine.
She and Declan are tough as nails, having spent 2 1/2 years sleeping on the streets of London.
So now you have homeless bums backing Judyth up? LMFAO
Why in the world would anybody think sleeping on the streets of London is something to brag about?
Jim I cant believe you are using homeless people to back Judyth up
Do you really expect anybody to care about what two bums think about Judyth or the assassination?
I cant believe it, I am so disappointed
How do you know how long I could last on the streets of London?
Do you have any idea of what type of man I am? From the looks of it I could bench press your homeless friend 100 times without breaking a sweat
The answer is you dont have a clue, so dont ever say that I cant last on the streets of London like your worthless homeless bum friends
You couldnt stay away from this thread if you tried Jim
Go ahead and post a reply that your broke bum friends who love Judyth could beat me up because I know nothing about hard times and couldnt last a day on the streets of London
I know what type of "man" you are. Out of the tens of thousands of posts on this entire forum these last two of yours are, on one level the most disgusting I have ever read, and on another level the most pathetic I have ever read. I hope everyone on here sees the type of "man" you are from these comments you have made.
Your simplistic child-like mind reduces all homeless people to something that you believe is beneath you. What you are actually suggesting is that the 107,000 homeless veterans that are currently living on the streets in your own country are "wortheless...bums." You obviously wouldn't give the time of day to these "worthless" people who fought and served for their country. Your simpleton child-like mind reduces all human-beings to the most childish of labels. It avoids the fundamental questions as to why so many people end up on the streets each year. You label homelessness with the same child-like labels you attach to your "mediocre" self.
You equate "worth" with "materialism." A homeless person is "worth" very little in materialistic terms so you then equate this to mean that the person is "worthless." They are "worthless" because external circumstances have changed their social and economic status, and that, in the Hagerman worldview is about all there is to sum up the true character of a person.
Here's a label for you Dean. You are a MORON. How about going and benchpressing that?
I have spent many hundreds of hours in the company of people who have found themselves homeless. And your comments disgust me. You wouldn't last a week on the streets of London or any other major world city before you were balling your eyes out and crying for your mother. Benchpressing does not make you fire-proof. Benchpressing does not make you stab-proof. Benchpressing does not make you weather proof. And benchpressing does not make you a "man."
For many of the people whose circumstances forced them onto the streets, this limitation, loss, and failure has turned into their greatest teacher. It taught them to let go of false self-images, and superficial goals. It gave them depth, humility and compassion. It made them true human-beings.
I wish I could show more compassion for your stupidity...
...but I can't.
If ever you'd like to spend a week on the streets of London, up against the 1100 ex-British Service Personnel who are also there, let me know and I'll make arrangements for a "real bench-pressing, wwe watching, homophobic, beer drinking, meat eating, thick-as-two-short-planks, moron of a man" to join them. I'll also let them all know that you think they're "worthless" before you arrive with your cardboard box.
You once accused me, in another act of gross stupidity, of not caring about the JFK assassination. One can't help but wonder why you care who killed him. His politics are quite obviously contrary to your own. You seem devoid of any sort of social conscience or any basic understanding of social issues.
Please save this to your computer.
Cry me a river
All you had to do was ask me why I have an opinion of homeless people
My wife and I were buisness owners in the Capital Hill district of Seattle for 3 years
90% of the homeless people lived in that area
I had to deal with them every day, at first I wanted to help them, they would ask me for food, I would tell them to clean my parking lot spotless and I would give them a meal
Guess what they said Lee?
"No way thats to much work!"
Every time! Not just one bum Lee, every single bum!
They would stand outside begging my customers for money, no matter how many times I told them not too
They would come in so piss drunk that one of them urinated on a table in front of my dining customers
One of them called my wife a whore because she would not give him free food
I could go on for hours Lee
They dont want to work
They want money to drink and hope they get free food after they are drunk
You have no clue Lee, I spent 3 years dealing with Bums every day
EVERY DAY
I have the right to have an opinion on them Lee, you are the one that has no clue about the lifestyle of a Bum, I have seen it in action I know how they think, I know what they want, I know the scams they pull.
You see Lee you have no idea who I am or what I have done, you just guess, how stupid do you feel now?
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And they are far more intelligent, better educated and interesting than you.
How is that? Maybe they have 260 IQs?
Im smart enough to have never been a homeless bum for 2 1/2 years
I told you its impossible for you to stay away from this thread
Keep insulting me, it makes you look far less intelligent, far less educated and far less interesting then you really are
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Who was the publisher?
Mother Goose Publishing?
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Looking good so far Mike
I got your back
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I just realized something Dean! Nobody has ever considered the possibility that Jack IS Badgeman! Are you just trying to protect him? Lol --jk of course, but I couldn't resist...I've long suspected Jack was involved!
Greg you know im trying to protect Jack!
Shhhhhhhh dont tell David Josephs he might complain about the fact that nobody has done a Moorman re-creation to see if Jacks height matches Badgeman in the last 40 years
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I only ask that you do more than just take the images at face value especially when referred to as PROOF.
Who referred to the Turner image as PROOF?
Maybe if you read the original post instead of jumping all up and down like a little kid you'd see that Jack did: "This photo proved to Nigel that the people sizes and approximate locations matched Moorman." Another way of saying this is that the photo was PROOF to Nigel that Moorman's people were correctly sized
You have no idea of what you are talking about, I am interested in the photo because it shows Jack and Larry on the bumper of a car standing behing the fence
This is important to me because of what Skinny Holland saw (Puff of smoke, mud on the bumper, footprints) and I have never seen a picture with anyone standing on the bumper behind the fence
Once again it is you who does not know what he is talking about. The footprints on the bumper were not related to badgeman at all but to the image of the person in my post... farther west and along a different portion of the fence. Better to keep quiet and be thought a fool....
I know that the Turner picture is not a re-creation as Jack has told you over and over yet you keep thinking we have to compare the Turner image to the Moorman image to see if the sizes fit, I could care lees about your GIF, it is useless! The Turner picture is not accurate!
Why dont you go to Dallas with 3 friends and do an accurate re-creation yourself? You keep asking why it hasnt been done in 40s years, go do it yourself
so you've seen no more proof that these images are real than anyone else save Jack (and GMack) who in this thread swear the images are there but are still skeptical about their origin. Plus I don't need to go there as the photo Jack posted was taken from Moorman's location with people standing right behind the fence - saying that does not represent badgeman doesn't change the fact that is really does and can be used by people like Nigel Turner to PROVE Moorman photographed an assassinfiring a rifle
I dont need that for me to back the Badgeman theory as I have for 20+ years
it's more than obvious you do not need to prove what you believe to be true - you need only believe it. The Lone Nut Theory and Single Bullet Theory work that way - they are believed to be true regardless of the evidence or the proof against such nonsense.
Thanks for your close attention to my posts and taking the time to show me the error of my ways.
But don't take my word for it, Jack makes it plain as day:
"BUT...the figures ARE in the Moorman photo. I CANNOT EXPLAIN WHY THEY
DO NOT MATCH. Among the possibilities are that the images are not genuine."
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It was my intention not to post again, but I am making an exception for you.
Your mediocrity has astounded me. And now you compound it with ignorant
remarks about two admirable human beings you know nothing about? You
had better hope you never fall on hard times, Dean, because you wouldn't
last a day on the streets of London. The disappointment, alas, is all mine.
She and Declan are tough as nails, having spent 2 1/2 years sleeping on the streets of London.
So now you have homeless bums backing Judyth up? LMFAO
Why in the world would anybody think sleeping on the streets of London is something to brag about?
Jim I cant believe you are using homeless people to back Judyth up
Do you really expect anybody to care about what two bums think about Judyth or the assassination?
I cant believe it, I am so disappointed
How do you know how long I could last on the streets of London?
Do you have any idea of what type of man I am? From the looks of it I could bench press your homeless friend 100 times without breaking a sweat
The answer is you dont have a clue, so dont ever say that I cant last on the streets of London like your worthless homeless bum friends
You couldnt stay away from this thread if you tried Jim
Go ahead and post a reply that your broke bum friends who love Judyth could beat me up because I know nothing about hard times and couldnt last a day on the streets of London
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Robin,
You are correct. She was there long before Phil Willis ever arrived.
We should all refrain from calling her Mrs Willis.
thanks
chris
Good call Robin and Chris, I fixed my post
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I only ask that you do more than just take the images at face value especially when referred to as PROOF.
Who referred to the Turner image as PROOF?
You have no idea of what you are talking about, I am interested in the photo because it shows Jack and Larry on the bumper of a car standing behing the fence
This is important to me because of what Skinny Holland saw (Puff of smoke, mud on the bumper, footprints) and I have never seen a picture with anyone standing on the bumper behind the fence
I know that the Turner picture is not a re-creation as Jack has told you over and over yet you keep thinking we have to compare the Turner image to the Moorman image to see if the sizes fit, I could care lees about your GIF, it is useless! The Turner picture is not accurate!
Why dont you go to Dallas with 3 friends and do an accurate re-creation yourself? You keep asking why it hasnt been done in 40s years, go do it yourself
I dont need that for me to back the Badgeman theory as I have for 20+ years
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She and Declan are tough as nails, having spent 2 1/2 years sleeping on the streets of London.
So now you have homeless bums backing Judyth up? LMFAO
Why in the world would anybody think sleeping on the streets of London is something to brag about?
Jim I cant believe you are using homeless people to back Judyth up
Do you really expect anybody to care about what two bums think about Judyth or the assassination?
I cant believe it, I am so disappointed
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She has a black sleeve on, then a gap which shows her skin, then her black gloves start.
Jack and Chris are right, this is what I see, the woman in black waving with her black sleeve back exopsing her skin with black gloves on
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Not trying to be difficult Jack
Well you are being difficult
How many times does Jack have to tell you that this photo was not an exact re-creation of Moorman?
I got it through my head the first time Jack posted the picture that it was simply taken by Nigel Turner to satisfy his decision to use the Badgeman theory in his program TMWKK
Thats what it is, why do you keep trying to make it into something that its not?
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Very nice, I agree with you Duncan MW has something in her right hand, I think I posted the wrong smiley, I could not find the one with the big eyes, I was trying to say im following you keep going.
If that smiley means something bad thats not what I wanted it to show
Im behind this study all the way
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In 2001, Judyth wrote the following reply to David Lifton on an email group. Draw your own conclusions.
Jack
..........
Subject: My boring life, Lifton says, must have needed something, so i
invented 1963.....
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:03:11 EDT
From: ElectLady63@aol.com
To: [16 addresses redacted]
Stop inventing a story to make your past more interesting than it actually
was.
(aboive line copied from David Lifton's latest newsgroup email about me)
===This is a background about my "boring" life, just for the record. A
little compressed, leaving a lot out, but it would take all night
otherwise.
Odd that David Lifton should say I'm trying to zapp up my
past..........not that i notice much response anymore to what he is
saying.
Still, he knows so little about me He thinks I am trying to generate some
excitement to make up for my appartently boring past. Here are only a few
highlights (I leave out eating at Napoleon's favorite inn in Bordeaux,
translating ancient Egyptian from papyri found on mummies, and making a
telephone call that caused an armed man to be captured who threatened
Reagan's life at an airport, and lots of other stuff that will bore you to
tears...but....for your entertainment: ).
Just beginning in 1966, when helped found the zoo in Austin, Texas, and
Willa Gibbs befriended me, wrote my first novel. This exciting lady had
lived alone in Arabia (later inspiring me to backpack alone across Israel)
and wrote several best-seller books such as the Twelfth Physician, Tell
Your Sons, and Seed of Mischief. She got me interested in God again, and
also got me into anthropology.
At the same time, was marching for peace, writing for underground
newspapers, and got arrested by the FBI in a raid for writing subversive
material, against the vietnam war, but we were all let go (my family knows
about this from day One).....marched and supported Cesar Chavez sometime
in the next few years, too....one of my anti-war friends was shot and
thrown into a freezer. It was Texas, after all.
Spent the summer of 1967 in Saltillo, Mexico, where painted the mountains
and wrote the novel 6 Foot 7 (about Hemming and Lee and betrayal and all
that, but that's a no-no to bring up, sorry...)( it was therapy.) Had
wonderful adventures there, enough to write a book (might sometime)
In 1968 had a baby. Ended up having five babies, being a newspaper
reporter, getting a degree in anthropology, getting my back reconstructed
and learning to walk again, living in interesting places, excavating
archeological and fossil sites, entering into secret (now banned) blood
rites in Mormon temples, working on the skull of Wanda (a pliocene whale)
at the Museum of Science and Industry in Tampa before hundreds of
onlookers, and of course living in Norway, where was also a newspaper
reporter.
in 1969, had joined the Mormon Church along with husband to start my life
over. Rose through Mormon ranks and met most of its leaders--very hard to
do---and got inside the machinery of that religion, being a state and
regional official in different areas of function, including publicity and
achiving historian. What i wrote became the final version of the church's
history of its members and its official activities in a wide section of
Texas. Can i recount historical events accurately? Mormon Apostles, Stake
Presidents and Bishops thought so.
Had hundreds of friends, maybe a thousand friends. Now think of it as
penetrating to the very heart of LDS secrets as a Temple Mormon, who later
exposed Mormonism's controlling patriarchy,narrow-mindedness and fakery to
the world here and overseas: I proved the falsehood of certain documents,
at the same time receiving death threats--and people were bombed and
killed at this same time in Utah over such documents.
In between, served on Bicentennial Commission in Stafford, Texas, and
designed the city's bicentennial memorial garden there for that event.
Also got my name on the monument there, for civic service, as an honest
newspaper reporter: That's how was appointed to the Commission in the
first place.
My kids were voted most popular, played with state champion-to-be football
team, and were valedictorians, their blushing single mother so thrilled.
I served in Bradenton as tutor, counselor to women, a state-trained child
abuse investigator, and made some rescues of children that could be made
into a movie, including a shotgun shoved against my chest, etc. .
Previously, I'd rescued, and caused to be rescued, dozens of starving
pregnant mares and got new laws passed in state of Texas against animal
abuse...and founded FBC
Humane Society.
Got mafia bordellos raided, making them very mad at me, about the same
time......and on the side, interviewed Don Hull, former FBI, at now-Sugar
land airport, where Dave Ferrie had a plane waiting to try to get special
somebodies to Laredo, in November 1963, but oh, i am not to mentiuon that,
either....sorry...
Interviewed the Sugar Land state prison's head warden, too, who was slain
shortly afterward by a rebellion only days later. Had interviewed some of
the prisoners who murdered him.
Uncovered mafia headquarters in Houston region and my son was there
with me. owned my own art studio and designed cards for Neiman-Marcus,
Sakowitz, Foley's and Houston Heritage Society. Sold art prints that went
worldwide, and created artwork for ARCO and other big oil companies.
Wrote roadshows for teenagers to perform in and directed teen roadshows in
Texas area. Wrote music for roadshows. Was manager of two political
campaigns, one won (County Commissioner) , the other (State
Representative) came in second in field of eight.. Since then got a
master's at UCF, created a new dog breed, ----and reopened the old wounds
of my past.
Have painted portraits of racehorses for millionaires and advised surgeons
in New York hospitals how to stop abdoiminal adhesions from forming. made
mice get cancer from cigarettes in record time and received national
attention and support for those efforts. Was kidnapped while trying to
become a nun, by my own Catholic parents. They took my roommate's clothes
by mistake in their haste--size DD bras, etc. She, i suppose, had to make
do with mine.......
Traveled to so many places I've lost track. Just like Lee, ironically, I
lectured men of the cloth --but they were monks in California---and just
like Lee-- again ironically--- had to learn Russian. Met so many people
from so many cultures. Even designed Norwegian sweaters for a factory in
Stavanger, found a viking ship site there, and a Norwegian stone ship
grave.
In Oslo in 1986 I attended Elie Weisel's (sp?) Nobel peace prize
ceremonies, for the newspaper The Saga. So many wonderful people there!
When i asked for excommunication from the LDS church, eighteen friends
accompanied me as witnesses: only the truth could be written down at the
church high council's court.
And there was a dramatic flight a year after, from Norway, that Josiah
could tell you about, as Mormons tried to stop me from leaving Robert. The
control he had over me was enormous, and all the protestant friends who
had been with me through the excommunication thronged the airport there,
to make sure the Mormons --there were at least fifteen or twenty of them
there--- couldn't stop me from boarding the plane. They tried.. Josiah
will tell you it was one group pressing against the other. But I got on
the shuttle to London, the Mormons running to buy tickets so they could
stop me in London. No more room on that shuttle, so I went into the air,
leaving them all behind. They vowed to come after me as i waited for my
flight to New York, but a storm arose, and the next shuttles were
canceled.
I Made my way with Jim and Sarah to Florida. And finally got two more of
the five children. Robert very bitter, sued us five or six times, but at
least was free. My Mormon family had done such things as buried my contact
lenses and destroyed my clothing so i could not go to a different (they
saw it as evil and radical) church. It was really rough at the time, the
control that was over me by Robert. I have sent some of you his "I am your
lord and master" "revelation" from God. There were many such edicts from
the Lord to the Servant.
He had been directing every little detail, as you know, down to writing
letters to me listing every single thing I could spend, and how, and what
i could or could not do. . I rebounded into fundamental christian
churches, and became sought as a speaker on radio and television and
elsewhere against Mormonism. All under fake names, because of my past,
culminating in 1963.
I've invented a new process for getting magnesium out of seawater, created
new uses for organic limolenes that take the place of phosphate-based
cleaning compounds, and wrote a three act play with original music with a
co-author, that was presented to celebrate the sesquicentennial of the
Mormon Church. Helped write lessons to improve the spiritual, cultural
and emotional levels of women in the church. Helped design LDS social
services publicity events, and LDS commercials and convention/fair booths.
Also broke up a witch's coven and uncovered its head warlock. Sent police
and a Mormon bishop to rescue, I am not kidding, a crippled virgin from
their midst, Judy Devries, who was going to be burned alive in a telephone
booth. . My family will verify this, too. Happened on Hazard St. near the
Diablo Club in Houston.
I'd like to finish excavating the Stelly Mound complex here---(older than
Poverty Point) and would be possibly the oldest in Americas, if we can get
it radiocarbon dated again. Had the excavation begun three years ago and
need to return to it.
I want to ride horses, breed those American Cream dogs, go back to Norway
and Egypt and do more archeology, work in cancer research again, and of
course, i love teaching drama and poetry at university here, as well as
English composition.
To end this long email, have attached a sample of writing one of my
students expects me to read. Every single word is numbered--she didn't
want to write one syllable past her 500 words! I don't think anybody would
believe me if i tried to describe this writing, so you just look and judge
for yourself this great challenge before me of interpreting it!
I have wonderful friends. One only 39, a petroleum engineer who has been
so much more than a friend. IHave always felt loved by many dear people,
but also have chronic pain--and chronic other pains, such as Mr. Lifton.
Could have taken the matters of 1963 to my grave. But made the commitment
after being pinned to the wall, so to speak, by Martin, and there i stand.
get a life, Lifton advises.
if he only knew.
-j-
I read that email a long time ago and I laugh harder now then I did back then
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Awesome pictures Stephen!
Thanks for posting them, they are now saved to my computer
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"The photo was Nigel's attempt to prove to himself that the images in Moorman were APPROXIMATELY CORRECT."
But the point is that the images in Moorman are not "APPROXIMATELY CORRECT" for adults standing between the fence and the wall.
In the comarison photos, Moorman is enlarged much more than the Turner photo is.
What we need to see is the Moorman photo and the Turner photo scaled so that the retaining wall is the same size and fully visible as such in each photo.
A better scaling comparison can be found on this old thread, page 5.
Thanks for the link Duncan thats a great thread!
Man Duncan you and Bill Miller went after each other like the world was going to end
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I would take their studies to the bank. JVB? Account overdrawn.
I agree with Jack
I respect DiEugenio's work
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Dean:
I hate the condescension heaped upon you in this thread.
Thank you very much Stephen
Please keep posting in this thread, I love reading your posts
Dean
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David,
Citing Dean Hagerman on Judyth could hardy be less appropriate. His
understanding of this case is about as superficial as it comes--like yours!
Jim
You have no idea how much time I have spent reading Judyths posts and emails years before you ever made this thread
How do you know my understanding of this case?
Because I havent read or watched what you asked me to?
Guess what Jim? I just watched all of your Youtube vids, I did what you asked me to do, and your vids made me doubt her story even more!
Her claims are so far out there that every thing she says makes me howl with laughter
I cant believe a man as smart as you let her reel you in
When you find out that Judyth is full of it I will not accept an apology from you for calling me names and saying my research of the assassination means nothing
You have gone to far Jim, I have never insulted you, in fact I have always offered support, you however took it that I had joined a cult and gone crazy because I dont believe this woman
Jim you are going to regret the fact that you ever became involved with Judyth, just like Martin Shackelford
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Can you think of a person who has been brought to trial almost fifty years after the alleged act of murder?
John List
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Hi Dean,
Is this who you meant?
John Emil List (September 17, 1925 - March 21, 2008) was an American murderer. On November 9, 1971, he murdered his mother, wife and three children in Westfield, New Jersey, and then disappeared. He had planned everything so meticulously that nearly a month passed before anyone noticed that anything was amiss. A fugitive from justice for nearly 18 years, he was finally apprehended on June 1, 1989 after the story of his murders was broadcast on America's Most Wanted. List was found guilty and sentenced to five terms of life imprisonment, dying in prison custody in 2008 at age 82. (Source: Wikipedia)
According to this source, John List was brought to justice 18 years after his murders.
Also, his crimes had nothing to do with national security nor is there any doubt that he killed those he originally planned to kill.
Dean Hartwell
I was wrong about the time frame I thought List killed his family in the early 60s not early 70s and his trial was not until the 00s
I was wrong
And I was only trying to answer the part of your question that I quoted, as you can clearly see I did not quote any other part of what you were asking
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Can you think of a person who has been brought to trial almost fifty years after the alleged act of murder?
John List
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Jim
I have just finished every video you posted with Judyth
I promise you I watched them with an open mind
I feel the exact same about Judyth after watching them Jim
She is not telling the truth
Just listen to her fantastic stories about meeting Hemming and him just telling Judyth about all of his activities like its no big deal
Just listen to her talk about David Ferrie and the fact that she was at his house for Parties and all this research, I mean come on there is no way in hell any of it is true
Jim I did what you asked, the videos have no evidence that Judyth and LHO were lovers
All they are is Judyth telling fairy tales
Badgeman people sizes and locations
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Ok
Its hard to compare without using my editing software, and if I dont have the pictures saved to my computer I cant do that
Thats why I asked
Dean