Dean Hagerman

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

It's called a "typo", Dean. I fixed it. Thanks for catching it. Let me know what you find.

Good call

Im almost done with the videos

On another note I am half way done watching the Judyth Youtube vids that you posted Jim

I will report back when I am finished

She has an IQ of around 260

Jim

Out of all of the statements you have made about Judyth this is the most absurd by far

260!

Say this out loud Jim.... Judyth has an IQ of 260!

Holy cow Jim

I dont care what you say Jim there is no way in hell that Judyth has an IQ of even over 200

Let me list some IQs for you Jim

Sigmund Freud IQ 156

Stephen Hawking IQ 160

Garry Kasparov IQ 190

Bobby Fischer IQ 187

Bill Gates IQ 160

FDR IQ 147

Hermann Goering IQ 138

Paul Allen IQ 160

And lets finish with what is in my opinion the highest possible IQ

Marilyn Vos Savant IQ 228

No way Judyth has an IQ of of anywhere close to 260, that is the most absurd thing I have ever read in my life

How can you even type something like that Jim, you know that an IQ that high is impossible!

There's nothing "hysterical" about my posts.

In my opinion, there is no chance in the world she is fabricating, fantasizing, or making these things up.

Jim

I will take the time this morning to watch all of the Youtube videos that you posted

Can you read that last line I quoted and ask yourself if you are being fair to the "Cult" (Myself, David, Jack , Doug, Barb, Glen etc By the way who is the Jim Jones/Marshal Applewhite of this Anti Judyth Cult? )from this lat statement you dont seem to have any room for other opinions ?

From frame 157 thru 160 there appears to be a major camera shift and film damage, at the point when Betzner has raised his arms up to his face.

I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame.

The difference in frame count between these two occurances is:

Approx 33 frames.

chris

I have always placed Betzners photo taken at Z-188 and I have always used the Betzner/Hill/Zapruder line of sight like what Jerry said

I have studied Betzner alot in the last 5 years

At a later frame the woman has taken her right hand down away from her face and her left hand is still up by her face

She couldnt have had a camera as you can clearly see in this frame I just posted

I still think her hands are to high to be yelling at her sister (If it is Linda Willis) but the more I look at it the more I think that is what she was doing

Interesting thread Duncan

Its hard to tell but I have to agree with Duncan that her hands are way to high to be yelling at her sister to come back

I will study this with my pictures and films

I would like to compare the Mary-Ferrie-Vary/Lee SECRET BIOLAB with the Manhattan Project

when it comes to "secret government projects".

The atomic bomb was developed in TOTAL SECRECY which involved thousands of people at

universities, major companies and government offices. So an important government project

CAN be done with complete secrecy.

But according to JVB the CIA secret bioweapon lab was SO SECRET that it had to be done

"off the record" in a New Orleans apartment with a freaky homosexual former airline pilot,

a teen-aged girl, and a former defector to Russia...supervised by a little known doctor...and

the doctor had to be killed later by a linear particle accelerator because "she knew too

much"...but the teen girl was allowed to survive for a half century.

And the "secret kitchen lab" remained "secret" despite the frequent delivery of large cages

of monkeys of all sizes. Few things would attract as much attention as having a "monkey

house" in the neighborhood.

Jack

Perfect was to sum things up Jack!

Jim please read what Jack just wrote and ask yourself this, Is Judyth's story absurd?

The only answer is a huge YES

MY PSY OPS EXPERT OFFERS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON STEPHEN ROY

NOTE: Apparently I was not the only one who thought that 20 years of research does not appear to

have produced any publications. I find that extremely odd. Why not? If he has something to say, it

would the obvious thing to do as a form of confirmation of his findings. Here are some reflections by

my psy ops expert on aspects of intel ops that may have escaped his notice but interest the forum.

Jim, let me respond to Steven Roy, self proclaimed expert on David Ferrie. I understand that he hasn't published his research findings. But maybe it is out there. And if he has massive findings of twenty years of research, what good is it if not published and shared?

Of course I know the cia was started after the national security act was passed and was considered an extension of the ivy league and wall street "oh so social" Donovan boys (OSS). But alas where did the name "company" come from?

Is Steven Roy aware that there was a well defined wall street based intel agency that had cooperation with the highest level in the federal govt and military for many years since the late 1800s? Could he seriously think that David Ferrie was a normal person? All his behavior at the time of the JFK Assassination as well as before screams "mind control".

Is Steven Roy familiar with intel various "special little boys program", the "finders", MK Ultra, MK Search, Slammer, etc. and all the other "special child" procurement programs used over many years? Ever heard of Russel Trust, Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove, Rush River Lodge. This is where many serious ops were planned. It is a known fact that the initial planning for the Manhattan project took place at bohemian grove in the redwood forest of california not too far from San Francisco as did the planning for the Hoover Dam project. Essentially, like it or not almost all intel within the USA has been run by the shadow govt, i.e. private extra-governmental corporate bodies. This is where the control lies and all done under the guise of "national security" so that its acts cannot be easily challenged or even laid bare to the public for scrutiny. The term company is also now used to represent the CIA which is really there to service the wall street bankers and their associated defense contractors and this term reflects the constant practice of the cia setting up proprietary corporations and cutouts from which to make money for black ops and to provides cover for operations.

The OSS evolved from the private intel group associated with Sullivan and Cromwell Law Firm which evolved from the folks who owned and controlled United Fruit Company since the late 1800's. Can you spell "dulles brothers as in Allen and John Foster". This United Fruit Company was a front for a massive intel apparatus at the time which was called "the octopus" and also folks referred to it as "the company" representing the United Fruit Company related intel system (these terms were used interchangeably for that intel system, which later associated with and used wealthy rightwing Texas oilmen, defense realted companies like Brown and Root of LBJ fame, and cuban exiles under castro). Later on this organization apparently went nazi and merged with the Averil Harriman railroad faction who was also nazi based (Union bank trading with the enemy scandal).

Some informed researchers claim that US intel is still run by this same wall street corp. based faction that financed the nazis and the bolsheviks too. This group has demonstrably shifted under apparent complete nazi control since WW2, due the apparent fact that the top nazis won the war and had a very successful escape from Germany to successful exile status under operation paperclip, while the german people lost the war. Does one think it is a coincidence that dodd brought back the nazi gun control laws from Nuremberg and had them translated by the library of congress so that they could be attempted to implemented almost word for word in US law. And where do you think the term "homeland security" came from. As many are aware several respected researchers found a connection between the JFK Assassination and the nazis brought to America after the war under operation paperclip (Mae Brussel hypothesized this).

And some believe that the nazis infiltrated and hijacked US intel in general or at least formed a long term permanent partnership with them (under the guidance of imported nazis Gehlen and Mueller). These same nazis brought with them advanced mind kontrol techniques and Dr. Joseph Mengele the "angel of death" and monster torturer of many death camp twins, who is alleged to have supervised their development and implementation in the USA. One of the methods used was to select and take captive gifted young boys who met special profiles that were vulnerable sexually, and then imprint sexual inversion on them to dirty them up and deviation amplify them. It was believed these folks made the best operatives and wetboys. Was Ferrie one of these special little boys, selected out and "processed" for duty? I would be very, very amazed if it turns out that Ferrie was not a special little boy and was not extensively mind controlled throughout his life by intel. It would certainly explain all his willingness and ability to train young boys like LHO and Barry seal at the civil air patrol under Gen Byrd who also owned the texas school book depository if I remember correctly. Barry Seal turned out to be one of the biggest US govt drug dealers in history. But of course this must also be pure coincidence. Can't be any intel conspiracy here now can there?

We have nothing with which to assess the authenticity of this alleged "Psy-Ops Expert," if he(?) actually exists. We know nothing about what qualifies his expertise in "psychological operations" or the intelligence/espionage/covert action milieu, or what qualifies him to pontificate on these and other matters. Given the peculiarity of how his words come to this Forum, I cannot completely disabuse myself of the notion that this might be a persona adopted by another person in an attempt to give his comments the appearance of an expertise he does not possess. If he is a real person, there appear to be two possible means of qualification: 1) He is a former intelligence employee of some sort (who would clearly be disaffected with intelligence today); or 2) He is an outsider who has read books on intelligence, who believes this qualifies him to offer judgments about these matters (and if so, is clearly one who is both fascinated and repelled by intelligence). To me, this person sounds more like an outsider than a former intelligence employee.

I have followed his "posts" in this Forum. At first, he made generalized comments about "psyops." He then graduated to specifics of the subjects of this thread. Next, he moved on to specific advocacy of certain books and people. Finally, he is now challenging specific people in this Forum. (In these last two stages, his views strikingly parallel those of his posting pal.) Throughout, his writings are peppered with jargon from intelligence books, and the peculiar use of transposed letters ("kontrol" vs. control). Hmmmmmm... And now, as we've seen, they contain mistakes, too.

First, to Fetzer: I'm not surprised that you find it odd that not all books can be churned out in, say a year or two. For my book, it's a part time endeavor, I am shooting for a high level of detail, and I am trying to get it all right. When it's done, it's done. In the meantime, I have helped other writers and TV producers, I've spoken at conferences and I've posted a lot of stuff to the internet. But I guess you find that sinister.

Back to "Mr. PsyOps": The correct spelling of my name is Stephen. I have never proclaimed myself a Ferrie expert, just a specialist. My comments to Jim yesterday were sarcasm.

"The Company" is a euphemism used by CIA professionals to hide references to CIA from prying ears (in oral communications) and prying eyes (in written communications), and CIA was founded well after David Ferrie's adolescence. You can spin it as applying to earlier American Intelligence, but by all accounts, is was a confusing mismash of small, independent and competing agencies, into and including World War II. That's why it was centralized in 1947. I'm quite familiar with the history of intelligence in the US. My collection of intelligence books number more than 2000. If you are also an "outsider", my knowledge probably equals yours.

Was Ferrie a normal person? Certainly, his earlier life would be classified as rather ordinary. You seem to be buying into the cartoon image of Ferrie as all-evil. Tell me what behavior at the time of the assassination "screams mind control."

No, I'm not familiar with the "special little boys program." Is that the one where some NON-"company" group recruited Ferrie as a boy in the 30s, then kept him on ice to be used in an assassination plot 30 years later? Tell me ANY evidence which supports this.

Ferrie did not train Barry Seal. Ferrie was in one squadron (briefly) and Seal was in another, in another city. No link has ever been shown between them, and this includes Hopsicker's book.

The rest is just your musings about how you think everything is connected together, how some evil cabal controlled everything for years. Even if bits are true, the whole picture you present is extreme over-reaching.

I'm sorry, Mr. Psy-Ops. You made mistakes in your claims about Ferrie, for which you should own up. I'm not going to make the error of others on this thread, and disregard everything you say because of a few mistakes, because of the rambling and opinionated nature of your writings or because your anonymity renders your credentials invisible. I'll read what you have to say, accept what is true and challenge what is not.

Very good post Stephen!

Im 100% positive there is no "Psy-Ops expert" if there was why wouldnt we be givin his name at least?

Mr Psy Ops is too scared to post all on his own, he has to have Jim hold his hand and post for him like a small child

QUOTE: "The actual location was not where Lee and I expected to go to a hotel, only to meet . . . we were going to then go explore Chichen Itza, which was supposed to be relatively close, and ruins, all of which we believed from a book [sic] we read together was in Quintana Roo . . . we were going to go to a fine hotel...maybe that was a joke of Lee's...and we were going to get a Catholic priest to marry us." UNQUOTE

((DSL comment: Attention All Readers Please Note: Lee, an atheist, and married to Marina, loving his daughter June, and happily expecting the birth of his second child. . . was planning to go off with this lady “to get a Catholic priest to marry us” ?! - - -Oh pleeez.))

Jim

How can you possibly defend this crazy statement that Judyth made?

How can you contradict the evidence that LHO was sending Marina back to USSR and, oh, by the way, left his wedding ring on the bureau on 11.22.63?

That means nothing, maybe his ring was bothering his finger and LHO took the ring off to rub his finger and forgot to put it back on

It has happened to me, it has happened to my wife

QUOTE: "The actual location was not where Lee and I expected to go to a hotel, only to meet . . . we were going to then go explore Chichen Itza, which was supposed to be relatively close, and ruins, all of which we believed from a book [sic] we read together was in Quintana Roo . . . we were going to go to a fine hotel...maybe that was a joke of Lee's...and we were going to get a Catholic priest to marry us." UNQUOTE

((DSL comment: Attention All Readers Please Note: Lee, an atheist, and married to Marina, loving his daughter June, and happily expecting the birth of his second child. . . was planning to go off with this lady “to get a Catholic priest to marry us” ?! - - -Oh pleeez.))

Jim

How can you possibly defend this crazy statement that Judyth made?

MY PSY OPS EXPERT REPLIES TO DEAN HAGERMAN AND GREG BURNHAM

I'll respond to a couple of questions and clarify some issues. First, to respond to Dean Hagerman, who says I am a lame psyops expert. He wants to know why I can't post myself, and am I afraid. First, I read the background posts and looked at some materials to give my opinion on what the issues are from a psyops perspective as a favor to Jim Fetzer because he asked me if I would do that. I have no desire to join the forum.

My goal is to help Jim by bringing clarity to any psyop related issues of the Judyth Vary story. I am not afraid of Dean Hagerman or anyone else on the forum and I could care less what anyone thinks of me. Nor do I have anything to prove to anyone at this stage in my life. I suggest that Dean settles down and relaxes. I have not made any personal attacks on him. If he doesn't agree with my impressions, that is fine, so what, he is entitled to his beliefs, and so am I. I have attained all the success in life I wanted to and have nothing to prove. I suggested to Jim that my name be withheld so as to not draw attention away from the important issues at hand since I would appear to some who try to fully research my background as a shadowy figure and it would quickly become a rabbit hole and a waste of time. This is not the issue at hand and would detract from the Judyth Vary story and the discussion about it on this forum. But if you or anyone else can make a good argument that I am incorrect in my assertions from a psyop perspective, then email it to Jim and he will send it on to me, or post it here, but also include a suggestion for a better, more reasonable and plausible explanation. I think most posters on this forum would like to see truth distilled out of any such issue as this, especially with the possible serious long term effects these issues may have for American Society. All good truth junkies need a fix of plausibility every so often.

Jim Fetzer has known me for many years, knows my bona fides including educational and professional credentials for certain and knows personally at least one very experienced individual that I have associated with. Jim knows that I have extensive knowledge of psyops and that is why he asked me for my impression on this. I suggest that as with any other information or arguments posted that they be evaluated point by point for their reasonableness and plausibility, rather than fixating on the person stating those points. My impression from a psyops perspective are best evaluated on their own terms, point by point and each person can choose to agree, disagree and state what evidence they have for doing so if they want to. If folks think my input is worthless, then just don't read it.

As I stated before I do not know all the details of Judyth Vary's story and am not competent to evaluate it as to whether it is factual at any point, since that would require a long term detailed examination of the available evidence. What I do know is when something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck. This whole controversy around Judyth Vary's story appears to me as the footprints of a very sophisticated psyop associated with an illegal domestic deep cover black op, with several interwoven side ops. I have explained how these ops are typically constructed to incorporate means to discredit important witnesses and aspects of the op later. Have you ever wondered why David Ferrie was selected by the company as an adolescent and later treated to lose all his hair, sort of pushed over the edge into absurdity (i.e. "dirtied up" to create his deviation amplification)? Things were likely done to him to make him angry, sexually confused and dysfunctional and easily discreditable. This smacks of mindkontrol. Can you say intel's "special little child" mind kontrol program?

Maybe many things were done to create false tracks and leads to later create a rich cover-up for this op. Whatever the overall goals were, it sure seems reasonable that there was a deep cover black op going on involving professional intel agents such as LHO, David Ferrie and others involved with intel such as Ochsner and Inca. In any of these deep cover domestic ops, considerable planning goes into creating false leads, side ops and ways to generate deniability, massive discrediting of actual players and any witnesses who later talk. Intel had become very specialized even during the late 1950's and 1960's and was easily capable of setting up and running an op that would later generate a massive web of confusion and discrediting of any witnesses or players involved. And look at the web of confusion that was constructed around Lee Harvey Oswald long before the JFK Assassination.

And Mary Sherman's strange death smacks of intel cover-up and so far Ed Haslam's suggested explanation of how it occurred seems the most reasonable and plausible. Is it a fair assumption to make that Judyth Vary was drawn into a very sophisticated deep cover cover op that was at least peripherally involved with the JFK Assassination? Yes this is a reasonable conclusion.

And to answer Greg Burnham's question about disassociation as a gift that allows survival [in a victim of psyops].

This is a very astute, very important question and shows sophisticated insight into how psyop victims respond to stress and also how mind kontrol victims also can respond to stress. Yes, Greg is correct with this assertion and this has always formed the basis of psyops and Mengelian/Nazi mind kontrol imported after WW2 and still used extensively to this very day by intel all over the world. And it may explain how much of the confusion has arisen in all the disputes and contoversy about the specifics of Judyth Vary's story. Some continuing psyops are designed to freeze dry a person while creating enough stress to force certain mental compartmentalizations, and this is especially so if a TI has been subjected to any prior sophisticated mind kontrol or psyops before. Another interesting thing related to this point is that it is not uncommon to find some rapid WCAs and LNutters cover-up op or assets to have themselves been mind kontrolled to varying degrees, as I have found in the past.

It is reasonable to believe that Judyth Vary was brought into a very sophisticated and serious deep cover covert op at least peripherally associated with the JFK Assassination due to her association with Ochsner and likley association with trained deep cover intel op LHO and intelligence asset Ferrie. Jim Fetzer knows for sure that I am well informed about this because he has seen documentation on this from me.

I think it is a fair assumption that Judyth Vary was brought into a sophisticated deep cover intel op and used for several functions which so far may not be altogether clear. It is even possible she could have been brought in to set up a false cover or to function as a discrediting agents to protect the op. Who would ever believe her anyway. Even if some, much or all of her story was true, it is just too incredible for most to accept any of it without very thorough and complete documentation. And of course there could have been certain disconnects built in with what she was led to believe and what is documentable for or against. The fact that there is so much disagreement about her story on the forum suggests that she was and still is the byproduct of a very sophisticated deep cover black op, and this result smacks of the success of those that constructed and carried out this op and maintained it's cover-up over the years. And maintaining a cover-up can involve a controlled leak, depending on the overall goals of the op.

One more thing. LHO was a trained intel op with a history of using sex in his work and being treated for an STD he obtained in the process. It isn't much of a jump to believe that he seduced Judyth Vary and had a fling with her. Ops specialize on eliciting confidence in their marks. But that being said, that in and of itself doesn't mean that LHO didn't fall in love with Judyth Vary and didn't start developing "role distance" with his professional intel role, or starting relizing he was set up. And consider this, LHO may have been a mind Kontrol victim himself, MK Ultra style. Many deep cover professional intel ops are. A substantial amount of research on what MKUltra ops were exists on the internet and in declassified documents and records from Congressional Hearings, especially the Sec. of Energy Leary Hearings. It is a well known fact that almost every deep cover black op done domestically since the mid 1950's has at least to some degree involved Mengelian MK Ultra Mind Kontrol in some of the players. The possibility of mind kontol in some of the players may be something in this whole Judyth Vary story issue that needs to be further investigated. This of course if true only makes her story even more important.

my psy ops expert

Jim

Who is this stupid lame Psy Ops expert you are posting for?

Why cant he create his own account with his own name and post his thoughts under it instead of you doing it for him?

Is he scared?

Why dont you post his name?

Until you post his name or until he posts his lame "Psy Ops" reports on members of this forum himself then how do you expect anyone to care about what he has to say?

Ask your friend to do a Psy Ops report on my lemming like research

Weak

You really are a child at heart, aren't you, Dean? I know I hurt your feelings, but this is just ridiculous.

Arguments have to be evaluated on their own merits. If you study it, you might learn something. Why

don't you critique his arguments, if you think they are mistaken? That might be an interesting exercise.

my psy ops expert

Jim

Who is this stupid lame Psy Ops expert you are posting for?

Why cant he create his own account with his own name and post his thoughts under it instead of you doing it for him?

Is he scared?

Why dont you post his name?

Until you post his name or until he posts his lame "Psy Ops" reports on members of this forum himself then how do you expect anyone to care about what he has to say?

Ask your friend to do a Psy Ops report on my lemming like research

Now I am a child? What are you going to call me next? 1st I am a Lemming, now I am a child

Why dont you be a man and tell this idiot to post his Psy Ops garbage himself

my psy ops expert

Jim

Who is this stupid lame Psy Ops expert you are posting for?

Why cant he create his own account with his own name and post his thoughts under it instead of you doing it for him?

Is he scared?

Why dont you post his name?

Until you post his name or until he posts his lame "Psy Ops" reports on members of this forum himself then how do you expect anyone to care about what he has to say?

Ask your friend to do a Psy Ops report on my lemming like research

I should explain that his has nothing to do with whether or not you ultimately believe in

Judyth. That is a conclusion that each of us had to determine for themselves. My point

is that, unless you have considered the evidence that I have identified, ...... you don't have the right to have

an opinion about Judyth--at least, not one that qualifies as "rational".

I cannot believe that Jim Fetzer wrote the above.

So nobody has the right to have an opinion unless it meets the teacher's criteria?

Jim, you were a teacher too long. You are no longer talking to "students".

I cant believe it either Jack

I was shocked when I read that

Wow

Jack I have never seen that picture of you Larry and Ken standing on a car bumper behind the fence!

The sizes look real good to me, in fact when I saw the picture the hair on my arms stood up because it was that close

I have always believed in your (and Garys) Badgeman theory Jack

This picture is great and further cements Badgeman as fact in my view

Thanks Jack I saved the image to my computer

Dean

Great work Chris, im with you so far, keep going bud

Mr. Fetzer-

I do not know Dean Hagerman but I suspect that- outside of the Judyth Baker issue- he and I would not agree about much concerning the assassination. But I wanted to mention that I read his posts very differently than you apparently do. I do not see him as a lemming, blindly following the opinions of others to fit in. Rather, it seems to me that throughout this thread he has thought for himself and painfully come to the conclusion that someone he has respected has feet of clay. He has done his best to express his concerns to you, Mr. Fetzer, and you have either ignored them or tried to lecture him as if he were a child. He deserves better.

Thank you very much Kevin

It hurts that a researcher I not only looked up to but based my research for the last 12+ years on not only said im a lemming and follow everybody else, but that I have done no research and basicly am not allowed to have an opinion

Thats great Jim, all the admiration I had for you, all the times I defended you, and all the praise I gave you is now gone

Thank you for showing me the real you, I used to think of you as the leader of the alteration cause of which I was a supporter of

Now I think of you as a nobody to me

I hope it made you feel good to insult me, just remember this, I have always stood behind you, and now I can see that standing behind you means jack sh*t to you, you are the only researcher ever that I have seen treat his supporters like his critics

Thanks, David. I find the most incredible of the items you list is that JVB was unaware

of the Garrison investigation back in 1967. Every newspaper and magazine and TV

newscast carried details daily. I even bought 3 month subscriptions to the New Orleans

Item and the New Orleans Times-Picayune to get fuller coverage. At that time the

assassination was fresh in everyone's minds, many of the players were still alive, and

even the grocery story tabloids had front page coverage every week. Knowing about

the CONTROVERSIAL Garrison trial was unavoidable. Garrison was even a guest on

the Carson Tonight show.

Someone who had personal acquaintances with David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay

Shaw, Lee Oswald, Reily Coffee, et al had to be living on another planet to be UNAWARE

of the Clay Shaw Trial. UNBELIEVABLE!

Jack

Jack

This is a great point!

Jim did you miss this? If you did could you please forward it to or make her aware of this post please?

You are on the ball Jack

Jim keeps saying that you should stop because you are discrediting yourself, you are not discrediting yourself in any way in this thread

The only person I see being discredited is Judyth, and Jim is it odd to you that only a small handful of people support Judyth in this thread while a huge number of researchers and students of the case do not believe her in this thread?

Do you wonder why that is?

It is because the affair with LHO NEVER happened

NEVER

If it did happen and Judyth can prove it to me (and I mean really prove it not all this garbage that she has posted for us to take as facts) then I will never post on any JFK forums for the rest of my life

That is a promise from me to you Jim

Come on guys

I like both of you

Its ok and in fact healthy to disagree with theories that you think are bogus

Why dont you guys start all over fresh and battle each other in a civil manner before someone goes to far

Dean,

I wish that could be the case. It can not. This is how Robert reacts to anyone who does not agree with him. Its a common tactic of Roberts.

No worries though. I have already well proven my points, and they have yet to be refuted.

On another note. I saw your post at Duncans place, and absolutely want your help! The new site will not be limited to just the LN thinking, it is for both sides. All I ask is that it be ballistically sound, if it is an article in that direction, if it is not about the shooting or ballistics, that it be accurate and provable. I want a site, for all of us, that keeps our integrity high, and the standards to match.

Please feel free to contact me for now at jfk22nov63@aol.com

I look forward to working with you on many an adventure!

I think its a great idea Mike and would love to contribute to your new website

Come on guys

I like both of you

Its ok and in fact healthy to disagree with theories that you think are bogus

Why dont you guys start all over fresh and battle each other in a civil manner before someone goes to far

RIP Aubrey

I first read about Aubrey in David's masterpiece "Best Evidence"

But what really made me a fan of and a believer in Aubrey was his apperance in TMWKK

I believed every word of Aubrey's story after seeing him talk about the events he was involved in the November 1963

It made me believe that much more in David Lifton's book

Dean,

I haven't wanted to address you about this, but your performance on this thread

has been less than mediocre. When you compliment Jack for his ignorance with

regard to basic information about the case, I find it inexcusable. I want to think

you are a serious student of various aspects of the assassination. But, as I see

it, your posts here continue to demonstrate that you haven't a clue! I'm sorry.

Jim

But Jim...Mary Sherman died at home in her apartment. If the LINEAR ACCELERATOR was located

in the Public Health Hospital, how could it have been responsible for her death?

Have you read the reports of her death?

Boom-shaka-laka

Since Jack and I are both huge Basketball fans I figured that my favorite saying would be approprite for Jacks smackdown

Jim

If you cant see that I was trying to be funny while backing Jack up at the same time then I dont know what to think

I am a serious student Jim, if you cant see that then im sorry, in fact if we were talking about lets say the Zapruder Film or something that you and I agree on I dont think you would question my ability on the subject

In fact I only know the basics about Judyth and her story, I have told you this over and over, and in your opinion I need to know EVERYTHING about Judyth to make a post in this thread thats up to your standerds

Well lets move to another subject that I know all about and I promise you will see me in a different light

But Jim...Mary Sherman died at home in her apartment. If the LINEAR ACCELERATOR was located

in the Public Health Hospital, how could it have been responsible for her death?

Have you read the reports of her death?

Boom-shaka-laka

Since Jack and I are both huge Basketball fans I figured that my favorite saying would be approprite for Jacks smackdown