Ray Mitcham
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Posts posted by Ray Mitcham
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8 hours ago, Rich Pope said:
First, I'll set-aside your poor spelling and grammar mistakes. I understand typing skills don't equate to intelligence.
Secondly, if you had read his book, you will see Roffman shows several changes to the parade route even making the point, "Neither Oswald nor any Dallas resident could have known the exact motorcade route, for conflicting accounts were published."
I'll take his expertise over yours any day of the week.
In addition, Marina Oswald wrote a narrative which indicated her husband wasn't even interested in President Kennedy's visit to Dallas. Being his wife, I'll take her point of view over yours any day of the week as well.
Your verbal masturbation in the last post was long-winded and easily refuted.
It ill becomes somebody who criticises another poster for using bad grammar, to then mix tenses in his own post. "Secondly, if you had read his book, you will see...." and "Your verbal masturbation in the last post was long-winded and easily refuted. " is a totally over the top insult.
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11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Here is a film of it. The shot at 2:27 is really memorable and has symbolism to it that no one realized at the time.
I remember watching the film some years ago. Left me with so much sadness. And I'm not American.
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2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
3.01 [35] Richard Diamond: THE SPORT ( aka “The Larry Forsythe Case”) 15Feb59 written by Richard Carr directed by Alvin ...6K views1 year agoI thought the above text was the link. Not sure how to do this.Maybe clicking on the picture of the newspaper will take you there?Joe, just copy the address at the top of the Youtube page and post it here.
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21 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Joe:
Where is the link?
Here you go, Jim..
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On 4/27/2018 at 10:11 AM, Thomas Graves said:
Adrej,
You seem to be avoiding my point that it is impossible for a person who has normal, equal-length legs to stand reasonably safely and comfortably with one foot on a landing, and the other foot on a step that is 7 inches below the landing, and keep their shoulders parallel with the landing.
-- TGRubbish. I've just tried it and my shoulders stayed level, because my weight was on the lower leg not on both. Try it yourself.
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Brilliant, Ernie. Thanks for your trouble.
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Dougherty's Warren testimony is a load of contradictions.
He thought the shots happened before he had his lunch, which was at twelve o"clock.
"Mr. BALL - And it also says, this report from Mr. Johnson, states that you told him that just prior to 12 noon you and five other men were working on the sixth floor. Were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; we were working on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was getting some stock off of the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - You weren't helping the men lay floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - To what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - The first floor."He thought that the East Elevator had buttons, then he thought it was the West one which had buttons.
"Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you take?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you see, there's one on this side and one on this side the one on this side is the one I took.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side," doesn't mean much when it's written down.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I know it.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me whether it was the east side or the west side elevator?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - East side.
Mr. BALL - Is it the one that you punch a button on?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.Mr. BALL - I believe that is the west side, isn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I believe it is.He said he asked Eddy Piper if the President had been shot, then denied he had asked him.
"Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes."
Mr. BALL - You didn't say--did you say, 'Has the President been shot?"---you told the FBI agent that you went down to the first floor and you saw a man named Eddie Piper and asked him if he heard a loud noise.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I asked him that too.
Mr. BALL - And Piper said he had heard three loud noises and told you that somebody had Just shot the President; is that right?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - Who mentioned the fact that the President had been shot first--- you or Eddie Piper?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL - Did you say anything to Piper about the President being shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - When you talked to Eddie Piper, did you know that the President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't know that at the time.
Mr. BALL - When is the first time you heard that the President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - When Eddie told me that.
Mr. BALL - Eddie told you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.He said Shelley told him that he saw Oswald with a large package, when Shelley never said that in his testimony.
"Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.Shelley to the W.C.
"Mr. BALL - On the 22d of November 1963, did you see him come to work that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, he was at work when I got there already filling orders.Dougherty was either completely stupid or a paid dis-informant.
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Thanks for posting David's posting, Douglas. Makes you realise how lucky you are to be in good health.
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1 minute ago, Ron Ecker said:
Right. Thanks.
If I'm still around in 10 years or so, I'll probably ask the same question again.
I hope I'm still around to answer, Ron.😀
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46 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:
OK thanks. It certainly looks like a shirt, but I couldn't make sense of Lovelady's shoulder. I can see now where what looks like the top of Lovelady's shoulder (such as it is) is the darkness of Shelley's coat, which makes the shoulder look more straight-down than it is.
Lovelady was standing like this, Ron.
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2 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:
YOU are the one inventing these scenarios, not I. YOU are the one claiming to know things NOT IN EVIDENCE.
I'm fairly certain that I haven't mentioned exactly what my position is on Prayer Man.
If you want to "solve" the assassination based upon speculation, have at it. Then you and Mr. Trejo can start your own fact-free Miseducation Forum, and run it any way you choose.
As for me, I'll stick with the evidence we can see.
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To me, the blackened area looks like the reflection of the shadow of Air Force One's body. You can see the matching slit of light caused by the shadow of the tailplane (horizontal stabiliser) and the shadow of wing.
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Please accept my apologies, Trygve. I should have spelled your name correctly.
I wasn't criticising your comments just suggesting what may have happened.
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2 hours ago, Trygve V. Jensen said:
Did it exit? - If so; where ?
Edit; Hi Rick btw.
Who said it exited, Trigve? Look at the tracheotomy, does it look like a normal one to you or a butchered attend[mpt to get at a bullet?
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LBJ was aboard Air Force One quite some time before the Kennedy clan got aboard. LBJ was there when the coffin with the President in was loaded. What on earth could he have been up to whilst he was on there?
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3 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:
Mike Rago status aside, I've always found it difficult (and strange) that no pictures of Zapruder standing/filming on that famous pedestal exist. I've tried to find evidence of him in the many stills taken and published (similar to the umbrella man and his companion) but have never seen any photographs.
For a guy who took one of the most infamous and controversial movies ever made, he disappears from the entire scene very quickly. And unlike others who told of having their cameras seized in the aftermath, he escapes with a movie camera no less. It is an interesting question to pose.
Hi Gene, Zapruder can be seen standing on the pedestal in the Orville Nix film @ 25 second mark.
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7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Thanks Ron, and now I can finally state the question I wanted to ask.
These pics are in the WC volumes.
The FBI took them fairly early in the proceedings.
If one reads the WC testimony of Wesley and his sister, I do not recall one question based on the obvious contradictions the pics make with her story.
Does anyone else?
The obvious question is why?
But beyond that, this is my complaint with the first generation critics: I don't recall any of them asking about this either. They just accepted the testimony of both. And they proceeded to do what Ray is going, ask questions about the length of the bag. Instead of the much more serious question: How the heck could Linnie have seen Oswald through the car, the slats, and another car?
Agreed, James. Sorry for helping DVP to derail your thread. Linnie Mae is said to have seen Oswald through the narrow slats shown in the photos, and behind Frazier's car which is almost impossible to discern through the slats. Certainly throw a lot of doubt over her testimony.
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34 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
I would have thought the difference between the words "noticeable" and "noticed" would be readily apparent to anyone familiar with the English language. But, I guess I was wrong. Ray has no idea that the two words are not the same.
Lmao. It would be noticeable, David. i.e observable.
Note what I wrote.
"Try cutting apiece of timber to 34.8" long and hold it in your hand and ask somebody to stand behind you to see if it is noticeable."I said nothing about it being noticeable to Oswald. Do try to keep up, son.
Anybody walking behind somebody with a package sticking 12" above his shoulder would certainly have been noticed.
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16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
That's not the point. Such a protrusion above the shoulder probably would have been "noticeable", yes. But just because it COULD have been seen, does that mean Frazier (who wasn't paying very much attention, remember) WOULD definitely have noticed it? Of course not.
Only in your mind, David. only in your mind.
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5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
I didn't say "no attention at all", I said "virtually NO ATTENTION at all".
Slightly changes the debate when all the info is given, eh Ray?
QuoteAnd you can prove he "would have noticed" that, eh Ray? How do you think you can prove this? Especially since you know that Frazier admits that he didn't pay much attention to Oswald as they walked toward the TSBD.
Does "I didn't pay much attention to the package" somehow translate to "would have noticed" a particular protrusion in your world?
Nope. Just like you can't prove that he didn't pay "virtually any attention at all" to the bag.
Try cutting apiece of timber to 34.8" long and hold it in your hand and ask somebody to stand behind you to see if it is noticeable.
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11 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
Wesley Frazier quote....
"Like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all."
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Therefore, given the fact that Frazier was paying virtually NO ATTENTION at all to Oswald as the two of them walked toward the building, tell me again, Ray, WHY Frazier would have had no choice but to see (and make a mental note of, for future reference) the part of the package that was likely protruding above Lee's right shoulder?
Funny how "didn't pay much attention to the package" morphs into "NO ATTENTION at all", in the mind of a Felucca.
"Mr. BALL - What did the package look like?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long.
Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back.
Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?
Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.
Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it?
Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches."Doesn't sound like NO ATTENTION at all to me.
Walking behind Oswald, Frazier would have noticed a package sticking up 12" above his shoulder.
A Wall Street Coup?
in JFK Assassination Debate
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Ron. I have permission. If you give me the link I will copy and post for you.