Ray Mitcham

Thanks for the bump, Thomas. (I had to put my sunglasses on to read the post.) Don't know what your beef is, as I believe the girls were on the South side of (the original) Elm Street, i.e the North side of the new, Freeway access, Elm Street. p.s. my surname is spelled Mitcham, not Mitchum.

As there are two Elm Streets, the original and the new underpass road, I agree with the idea that the girls were right when they said they were on the South side of the original Elm Street. Didn't one of the Chism couple say that they were standing on the South side of Elm Street, when they were obviously on the North side of the new underpass?

If you believe Shelley and Lovelady, then you have to believe it took Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles ten minutes to get from the fourth floor to the first for them to be seen by the two men. TEN minutes !!!! But wait, where did Shelley say he saw Vicki? "Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Vickie Adams?Mr. SHELLEY - I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.Mr. BALL - You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?Mr. SHELLEY - It was after we entered the building.Mr. BALL - You think you did see her after you entered the building?Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; I thought it was on the fourth floor awhile after that." It's a no brainer. Shelley and Lovelady were lying.

Mr Holmes : Then he said when all this commotion started, “I just went on downstairs.” And he didn’t say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, “I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about.” … Mr Belin : Where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting? Mr Holmes : He said it was in the vestibule. Mr Belin : He said it was in the vestibule? Mr Holmes : Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part. Mr Belin : Did he state it was on what floor? Mr Holmes : First floor. The front entrance to the first floor. The above conversation is for those who don't know the difference between a vestibule (definition: "a lobby, entrance hall, or passage between the outer door and the interior of a building"----Vestibule or Vestibulum can have the following meanings, each primarily based upon a common origin, from early 17th century French, derived from Latin vestibulum, -i n. "entrance court".) and a foyer"(definition:"a large open area just inside the entrance of a public building such as a theatre or a hotel, where people can wait and meet each other:)

Perhaps Paul can explain why Lovelady and Shelley didn't see Adams, when they returned to the TSBD.

When would a Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge depend on what the guy said? Whenever I have been measured and weighed for an official form it was always done for me.

Steve, that would account for the excessive number of DPD cars and personnel who allegedly turned up to catch a guy who had bunked into the Theater without buying a ticket.

You wrote "President Kennedy appears to be in some distress and Jackie seems concerned." Please show the visually impaired, how you arrived at this conclusion.

Other than an over active imagination, how do you explain you seeing JFK appearing to be in "distress" and Jackie seeming "concerned," when the photo shows nothing of the sort?

You can't tell what his expression is in that photo. You can't tell what Jackie is doing. Sorry, but IMO, you are imagining things, John.

Quote by John Butler" "President Kennedy appears to be in some distress and Jackie seems concerned." John, please enlighten me on how you can tell a. that JFK is " in some distress" b. How you can tell that "Jackie seems to be concerned" from that single frame.

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT THE STATE OF TEXAS COUNTY OF DALLAS BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket. s/ M. L. Baker SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963 /s/ Mary Rattan Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas My bolding. Note the description of the man he saw. It doesn't match Oswald's description..

That's exactly my point. You are reading into what Baker said about seeing a guy walking away from and turning back to him as being a guy behind a door with a window in it, behind which Baker saw him.It doesn't make sense. In Baker's first day affidavit, he mentions zilch about a doorway.

Bill, in Baker's first day affidavit, as you have quoted above, he stated that he saw a man walking away from the stairway. He called him and he turned back toward him. Nowhere in that statement does he mention any doors to any lunchroom, so how you can say "So unless there is another Lunchroom on the third floor with a set of doors (one having a 2 x 2 foot window in it), then Baker merely got the floor number wrong." escapes me. You are reading into Baker's affidavit something which isn't there.

Bill, do you not see that Baker changing his testimony from seeing a guy walking away from him and then coming towards him on the third or fourth floor, to seeing him thorough a glass window in a "vestibule" doorway on the second floor, is a major problem with his evidence? How can you rely on anything that Baker said subsequent to his first day affidavit?

Paul, which statement by Baker do you think he was being truthful about? His first day affidavit where he said he saw a man walking away from the stairs on the third or fourth floor, ("As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.") or his later Warren Commission statement where he said he saw a man inside the doorway on the second floor. (Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.)

It appears that there may be a problem with the software on the site. I along with others, seem to be having a problem with posting where previous postings and quotes appear for no reason. These then have to be deleted. Sometimes this is not possible.

I think like Calvery, you are going round in circles.

Robin, not to be nit picky, but she didn't exactly say she went outside. She said she went to the front entrance where she remained for two or three minutes.

duplicate post

No. That frame is nothing like Altgens6, John. Note the tree shadow in frame 170, which is just behind the limo, compared to the same tree shadow in Altgens6. It shows that the President's limo has travelled quite a distance down Elm Street in the second instance. p.s. Why do you believe that I am an LGT believer? I can assure you that I am not. I just don't like people getting things wrong.

Dorman film. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dorman+film+jfk Where are the above frames from?

At last you got something right.

Doh! So that you understand what happened. © Don Roberdeau. Altgens stood on the roadway to take Altgens6, then moved onto the grass, as the motorcycle cops approached, to avoid being run down. Shouldn't be too hard to understand.

He moved to get out of the way of the traffic cops, or is that too hard for you to understand. Maybe when you are old enough you might be able to shave too. p.s. Why do you believe my sacred cow is the Zapruder film?