Robert Mady

Allow me to condense the description so we have a better idea as to where the VP and VP follow-up vehicles might have been during shot number 1. The location of the Vice Presidential Vehicle: we were rounding a curve, going down a hill After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street The motorcade then made a left turn The location of the Vice Presidential Follow-up Vehicle: My car had just straightened up from making the left turn Our automobile had just turned a corner As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 of the way to the underpass at this time we were on a slight downhill curve to the right our car had just made the lefthand turn off Houston onto Elm Street and was right along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building

correction - initially posted Rich instead of Jacks... STATEMENT OF HURCHEL JACKS, TEXAS HIGHWAY PATROLMAN, MADE ON NOVEMBER 28, 1963. My name is Hurchel Jacks, Texas State Highway Patrolman. I was assigned on November 22, 1963, to drive the Vice President Lyndon Johnson in the Motorcade from the Airport to the Trade Mart through downtown Dallas. Just prior to turning off of Main onto Houston, I noticed it was approximately twenty eight minutes past 12 noon. We just turned from Main onto Houston, drove one block, and turned left. My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President's car at that time. At that time I heard a shot ring out which appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice President's car. SSA Taylor Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker--the sound coming from my right rear. Out of the corner of my eye and off slightly to the right rear of our car, I noticed what now seems to me might have been a short piece of streamer flying in the air close to the ground, but due to the confusion of the moment, I thought that it was a firecracker going off. As a matter of course, I opened the door and prepared to get out of the car. In the instant that my left foot touched the ground, I heard two more bangs and realized that they must be gun shots. Also at that instant, the car paused slightly and I heard something over the radio to the effect that something or someone had been shot. At that moment, the car picked up speed and I pulled myself back into the car. During the aforementioned I also noticed that ATSAIC Johns had completely jumped out of our car, and as we sped away, I believe he was knocked to the ground and left in the street. I recall hearing SA Kivett telling the driver to "go, go, stay right behind the car." During all of the aforementioned, I could see ASAIC Youngblood, in the Vice President's car immediately in front of us, jump to the back seat and cover the Vice President. SSA Kivitt Main Street and then made an immediate left turn on to Elm Street. The motorcade was heading slightly downhill toward an underpass. As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 of the way to the underpass, traveling between 10 and 15 miles per hour, I heard a loud noise--someone hollered "What was that?" It sounded more like an extremely large firecracker, in that it did not seem to have the sharp report of a rifle. SSA Johns The motorcade had passed through the downtown section of Dallas, and at approximately 12:35 p.m., CST, I heard two "shots," not knowing whether they were firecrackers, backfire, or gun shots. These two shots were approximately two or three seconds apart, and at this time we were on a slight downhill curve to the right. On the right-hand side of the motorcade from the street, a grassy area sloped upward to a small 2 or 3-foot concrete wall with sidewalk area. Clifton Carter The motorcade proceeded west on Main Street, made a righthand turn onto Houston and then swung around to the left on Elm, proceeding slowly at about 5 to 10 miles per hour. At approximately 12:30 p.m., our car had just made the lefthand turn off Houston onto Elm Street and was right along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a noise which sounded like a firecracker.

LADY BIRD JOHNSON Then almost at the edge of town, on our way to the Trade Mart where we were going to have the luncheon, we were rounding a curve, going down a hill, and suddenly there was a sharp loud report--a shot. It seemed to me to come from the right, above my shoulder, from a building. LBJ As the motorcade proceeded down Elm Street to the point where the assassination occurred, it was traveling at a speed which I should estimate at 12 or 15 miles an hour. After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street, I heard a sharp report. The crowd at this point had become somewhat spotty. SSA Youngblood The motorcade had just cleared the congested downtown area and made a right turn. I recall observing an illuminated clock sign on a building--the time was 12:30 p.m., which was the time we were due to be at the Trade Mart. The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds were beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of the small crowd of bystanders on the sidewalk- some tall buildings- a downhill grade ahead where the street went under what appeared to be a railroad overpass. We were about two car lengths behind the Presidential follow-up car at this time I heard an explosion--I was not sure whether it was a firecracker, bomb, bullet, or other explosion. STATEMENT OF JOE HENNRY RICH, TEXAS HIGHWAY PATROLMAN, MADE ON NOVEMBER 28, 1963. My name is Joe Henry Rich, employed by the Texas Highway Patrol, and I was assigned to drive the Vice President's security car November 22, 1963. As we came into the downtown area where the crowd was extra heavy, I was instructed by the Secret Service man to Stay as close to the Vice President's cars as possible and so that actually about the only thing I was watching was the car ahead of me. I was staying right on his bumper. We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street and that was when I heard the first shot. I noticed a lot of confusion up ahead of me, motorcycle policemen and in the President's car and the President's security car. Affidavit Of Ralph W. Yarborough The following affidavit was executed by Ralph W. Yarborough on July 10, 1964. …as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast, close by. I have handled firearms for fifty year, and thought immediately that it was a rifle shot. When the noise of the shot was heard, the motorcade slowed to what seemed to me a complete stop (though it could have been a near stop). After what I took to be about three seconds, another shot boomed out, and after what I took to be one-half the time between the first and second shots (calculated now, this would have put the third shot about one and one-half seconds after the second shot--by my estimate--to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots--these were my impressions that day),

What if we consider for a moment were witnesses in the motorcade were located when they heard the first rifle shot. Let us first consider the testimony from those riding in the VP car and VP-follow-up car.

Pat and Chris, thank you both for the input. I am going to post a response on 'Secret Service Agents Response' tread.

Brad, most people don't care about the assassination, most probably wonder why we are still bothering to investigate something 50 years old. I continue to pursue spreading this message because there are 'some' people who genuinely care to know the truth and are actively looking for it. If I can reach some of these people so the truth won't die with me, then a purpose will be fulfilled. It may take people much smarter than me to properly communicate this message to spread it effectively. As you can see, the assassination is absolutely simple to understand once the right perspective is understood yet it has taken almost 50 years to find the solution. Most people will never get the message because they have been utterly indoctrinated by news media, books and pundits that have successfully steered us away from the truth and built myths in our minds that become impossible to dissolve. Thanks for the posts Brad, I agree with your posts. Happy to have you joined in the battle.

Brad, I am not interested in who actually pulled the triggers, 'the trigger' as far as I am concerned had to be pulled by many powerful groups including THE MEDIA then HOOVER-FBI, NIXON-Republican Party and finally LBJ-Democratic Party. We will only identify these groups by their resistance to KENNEDY while he was alive because once they took control they most certainly would have altered our history where ever possible and covered their tracks. We trust media we trust pundits who look us in the eyes and are able to lie to us while smiling at us. Watch Walter Cronkite, he tells us the rifle was a Japanese rifle, then an Enfield, then a 30-30, then Mauser Argentine 7.65, the next day he looks us straight in the eyes again and with out flinching claims the rifle to be a Carcano 6.5, all without skipping a beat, without hesitation or commenting by saying WTF is up with this?. We need to stop trusting what we see on TV or read in books. I think a good rule of thumb is that if something is published it most probably has been preapproved for widespread consumption with few exceptions. Do not put trust in the JFK researchers just because they are published or are eloquent or made a video, they provided us with no solutions for 51 years, they either have had no clue or they have been deceiving us. I must add, there are some JFK researcher that I absolutely have trust in, that have devoted their lives to truth, so there are some gems in our midst.

Brad, you got it. The three rifle shots took about 3 or 3-1/2 seconds, KENNEDY had been fatally wounded by the first of the rifle shots at the same moment SSA realized an assassination was underway. The SSA did not stand down, they failed to understand the first noise caused an injury to KENNEDY's throat and did not determine the noise was a threat. HILL moving to the limo was too late. congratulations. Yes, MARY MOORMAN is a key to unlocking the assassination.

Pat and Chris thank you both for the information, looks like I have some homework for tonight Of course HUGHES second location is marked on the map that I posted, I should have asked my wife before I asked you Pat.

Pat can you indicate where HUGHES was located when he filmed the footage? HUGHES location does not alter the location of Camera Car #2 as seen in the back ground of the Zapruder film in Z-245. The approximate location proposed for Camera Car #3 can not be far off from what has been posted. And with absolute certainty according to the WC/R theory two shots from a high powered rifle had already occurred by Z-245.

Brad, take care in what you read, a great rule of thumb I believe is: evidence generated closer to 11/22/1963 and the moment of the assassination the more pure it is likely to be or unaffected by influence from government, media, faltering memories, fame and money. Information generated from witnesses coming forward more recently should be highly suspect. If you want to understand the assassination, you do not need to listen to anyone, go to the affidavits from 11/22 and 11/23, interviews created on 11/22/1963 and the photographic records, then the FBI reports oldest to newest, then finally to the WC testimony if you want the ultimate in fiction, this is all you need, do not listen to the pundits, they have not figured this out in 50 years, they have no clue, they have never had a clue.

Mark Knight, I want to thank you for reading the posts and the encouragement, from time to time it is gratifying to know that some people are understanding the message. Unlike Mr. Tom Purvis, I do not recognize evidence promoting any of the shots originating from the TSBD to be reliable or credible, nor was only three shots fired. Please post questions, comments or critical review whenever possible, it will help others and it will help me understand where you are in comprehending the assassination as well as help me continue to refine the truth.

Posted by Pat Speer on another thread Merriman Smith (11-14-66 UPI article found in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune. This version of the article was published in the 11-20-66 Washington Post as well.) ..."Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who raced from the follow-up car to the presidential vehicle to shield the fallen leader and his shocked wife, Jacqueline, heard only three shots.”... CLINT HILL claimed in SSA Report and in WC Testimony that after he heard the first 'firecracker' shot he ran to the limo, while he was running the second 'firecracker' shot occurred and resulted in causing the fatal head wound. I know of no other interview or publication where HILL admits to hearing three shots. Would it not be of significance to have known if HILL had confided in SMITH that he had heard three shots. SSA REPORT 11/22/1963 "when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker. The sound came from my right rear and I immediately moved my head in that direction. In so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential automobile and I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left. I jumped from the Follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile. I heard a second firecracker type noise but it had a different sound-- like the sound of shooting a revolver into something hard. I saw the President slump more toward his left." Testimony "Mr. HILL. Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left. Mr. SPECTER. Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us? Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot? Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car. Mr. SPECTER. How many shots have you described that you heard? Mr. HILL. Two. Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear any more than two shots? Mr. HILL. No, sir. This must be a gross error on the part of Smith or HILL admitted to SMITH that he also heard three shots from a rifle. It is known that all four reporters riding in Press Vehicle heard three shots, it would have been awkward for a professional body guard to explain there were only two shots or that he didn't hear a third. Most probably HILL claiming to hear three rifle shots is true. HILL would have not mentioned the very first shot that had been silenced to SMITH because this would have caused a problem with number of shots and timing of the assassination. HILL would have been bound to secrecy to maintain the WC/R story line. You might say oh Bob, HILL was taking action he didn't hear a third shot, give him a break. Remember HILL as depicted in Altgens #6 had yet to take any action, IF a second shot had come before Z-313 and the fatal head wound, HILL was basically standing around peering toward the limo, apparently doing nothing, why didn't he hear three shots? He did, he also heard a fourth, a silenced shot that occurred at ~Z-190 which caught his attention and caused him to look toward the gk and the limo, and that's the truth. If this part of SMITHs article is true (and we must consider that it is true), HILL heard three rifle shots, then it calls into question the SSA Report he signed and submitted as well as the WC Testimony as well as his descriptions of the shots he took unwarranted liberty in characterizing.

Here again is Camera Car #3, the Hughes image would have been taken around Z-245, and yet the occupants are preoccupied by antics on the sidewalk. Two high powered rifle shots have supposedly already been fired, yet the newsmen in Camera car #3 seem to be unaware of rifle fire and are still preoccupied by antics on the sidewalk. It should be clear that although they should be aware of two shots having sounded in DP, in truth they have not heard any shots...yet...because only the first silenced shot, 'firecracker' like sounding shot, has been fired and this was not detected by many witnesses. The first shot they will hear will occur as they approach the turn onto Elm, it will be from a high powered rifle, this will occur at ~Z-313.

Is this graphic explained adequately? The diorama supposedly illustrates the approximate positions of the vehicles at the time Altgens took #6. This diorama supposedly correlates to Zapruder frame z-255. (although we know based on evidence already presented camera car #3 is farther up Houston than is depicted, the cars traveling on Houston should be bunched closer together) You can see WC/R theory requires the news media vehicles would still be traveling on Houston when the first two shots occur, yet the descriptions from the National Press car describe their location to be either turning and along side the TSBD or having already completed the turn onto Elm with SN to their rear when the first two shots are heard. The only way the first shot can occur as the national press car is turning or has turned onto Elm is if the first shot they hear is from a high powered rifle and it occurs at Z-313. Any realizations happening from anybody yet? That the first shot that is heard from a high powered rifle is the cause of the fatal head wound, this scenario is absolutely in accord with the Assassination Four Shot Model, in that these newsmen along with virtually every witness in DP did not hear the silenced first shot that injured KENNEDY in the throat. The timing of the assassination is wrong as perceived by WC/R and all conspiracy theories, this is why the mystery could not be solved.

Pat Speer posted: Interesting BASKIN twice makes the claim that the first shot occurs when the TSBD is directly to the right of the vehicle he is riding in, then he claims in 1978 the first shot occurs when the press car is halfway down Houston. BASKIN is unequivocal there is not firecracker sounding shots. The three shots are all from a rifle. BASKINS notes a shot then two more or bham....bham.bham. BASKIN like SMITH and BELL place the first shot to occur after they had just turned the corner and the TSBD was on their right. BASKINs accounts also supports the Assassination Four Shot Model and is in direct opposition to the WC/R theory.

Pat Speer, thanks for the posting - Can you understand how these two testimonies actually supports the Assassination Four Shot Model and are in opposition to the WC/R theory? Pat, this analysis shows how the news media began immediately to spin the news to conform to the WC/R theory and to start to create myths to replace facts.

Pat Speer posted:

check this out: "There was not the slightest doubt on the front seat of our car that the shots came from a rifle to our rear (and the Book Depository at this point was directly to our rear). " What does this statement mean if the TSBD would have been to the front of the vehicle SMITH was riding when two shots from a high powered rifle were heard? Now imagine that the first shot SMITH hears is when his vehicle is turning the corner onto Elm at Z-313 and then two more shots follow as his vehicle straightens up and then comes to a stop...

Pat Speer posted : Note the points underlined. " This is a very crude map. It shows very approximate positions for limo, vehicle smith was riding in and Camera Car #3 that contained reporters from Dallas. Blue cars represent the relative positions of vehicles if the first shot is at Z-190 Yellow cars represent the relative positions of vehicles if the first shot is at Z-313 Now please reread the articles from above. Where was the car Smith rode in when he heard the first shot? Why did he mention seeing the assassination when he would have been unable to see the limo until the shot at Z-313 ? Substitute the word underpass for corner in the article 11-14-66 "Shots came from the rear", Smith was in a sedan, he was sitting in the middle, he could not determine very well where the shots came from could he?

The Z-245 shows the location of the first blue camera car at Z-245 The yellow line helps discern where the second blue car was located at Z-241 and Z-249 Second blue camera car contained Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas When they were looking toward the sidewalk in the Hughes film, two shots they claimed they heard, had supposedly already been fired, yet we can see that they are oblivious to this, plus by their own admission they claimed that these shots had not yet occurred.

Chris, there is not really any evidence to support that a shot occurred after KENNEDY's throat wound, until the fatal head wound. What you are seeing in the Zapruder film is CONNALLY is saying something to JACKIE, when he is done, he lays back on top of NELLIE, JACKIE then turns her attention to her husband, this happens simultaneously. What you might find interesting is to watch NELLIE and analyze her actions, where is her attention? Remember she claimed KENNEDY was wounded, then CONNALLY, NELLIE claimed then she was forced to reach out and pull CONNALLY who was stunned and not able to move onto her lap. Is this depicted in the film? Very nice gif, what software did you use?

Hughes film shows the camera cars moving up Houston until after about Z-249 Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas Are completely unaware that any shots have been fired as is every witness depicted in Hughes film. As I have tried to explain to you their testimony is unreliable and is thoroughly impeached by this evidence. The first shot from a high powered rifle did occur after the antics on the sidewalk, about 3-1/5 seconds afterward at about Z-313. If you can fully address the issue of timing incompatibility I will address your list of testimonies and statements.

Pat this is Z-frame 245 Capture from Hughes film with camera cars in approximate positions as seen in Z-245