Robert Mady

Kathy, sorry it has taken so long to post a reply. Thank you for reading the posts and for questioning what is being posted. The attempt was to show those interested that because of propaganda we accepted that ALTGENS 6 depicts a scene where two shots from a high powered rifle have sounded and that the SSA are seen reacting to gunfire. When ALTGENS 6 photo is analyzed what is evident is that testimony does not correlate to what is happening in this photo, not just some testimony virtually all testimony. Such as the reactions claimed by SSA and politicians traveling in VP car and VP follow-up car, should be evident in this photograph and they are not. This means the timing of this photograph is not what has been proclaimed.. Two shots from a high powered rifle have not yet occurred or even one shot from a high powered rifle. Absolute proof has previously been posted that the first shot made a soft pop or small firecracker like sound that can be seen to catch the attention of four SSA but they ultimately did not realize this was an indication of an attack on the President and that even JACKIE sitting next to KENNEDY did not realize an assassination attempt was underway, JACKIE did not hear this first sound or realize it had injured her husband. The first high powered rifle shot occurs around Z-313 which was the cause of the fatal head wound, then two more HPR shots followed, this IS the three HPR shots we have been convinced started with the neck wound and ended with the head wound. The problem is JFK researchers have been conditioned to believe otherwise and have not yet been able to recognize the truth even though no researcher has argued with the evidence that has been posted as proofs of the reality of four shot theory of the assassination. Kathy, the assassination consisted of four shots, first shot had a 'firecracker' like sound and caused the throat wound, this shot occurred around Z-190, second shot occurred around Z-313 and was a high powered rifle and caused the fatal head wound, this shot was heard by every witness in DP and then two more shots from a high powered rifle followed. This is the truth. The assassination consisted of four shots not three. That the last shot was not the fatal head shot, this was the first shot from a high powered rifle, essentially the media was successful in changing the timing of the assassination and the number of shots that occurred.

Altgens #6 iconic photograph depicts a moment in time while the assassination was progressing. We can clearly determine KENNEDY has been wounded by a bullet, his actions have drawn the attention of three motorcycle police, three SSA and JACKIE, we can see CONNALLY is turned sideways in his seat and three SSA are turned away from the limo. From this evidence we have been convinced that two shots have been fired and actions are in reaction to hearing these shots, yet there is not a bystander that has reacted, as a matter of fact we can easily determine that people are still watching the motorcade undisturbed by the sound of gunfire or unexpected noises, we can even see the hands of BREHM on the right, he is applauding the approach of the limo. We know from testimony that agents assigned to the VP went into action at the sound of the very first shot by exiting the follow-up vehicle as well as getting the occupants of the VP car to duck down, yet in this photo which was captured a long while after supposedly a second shot had sounded there is no discernable actions or reaction, as a matter of fact we can see LADY BIRD sitting and smiling in the back seat. We allowed ourselves to be persuaded as to what a photograph depicts but have never considered the entire content of what the photograph contains or whether or not it correlates to any other evidence. It is clear that this photograph does not depict the response to two or even one shot from a high powered rifle, rather it depicts a scene where there is a limited reaction to odd behavior of KENNEDY. We allowed the news media and the government to convince us of what we should be seeing without the benefit of looking ourselves. We will even use the conclusion provided to us proclaimed as truth to build our case of conspiracy using 'their' interpretation of what is depicted. We have been isolated into 'their' world of fiction which was conceived in deception and have not yet awakened to reality. Is it not time to wake up and see?

Paul it is apparently important to you to define who murdered JFK, for me James Douglass in 'JFK and the Unspeakable ' provides an overview that satisfied my curiosity. IMO - Powers that aligned against KENNEDY utilized the CIA to plan the assassination, elements of the mafia in Dallas were utilized as local support, the most capable snipers they could purchase took the shots. LBJ, NIXON and HOOVER at least agreed with the removal of KENNEDY from office by force. LBJ covered it up. HOOVER took care of the details. The exact cast of characters may never be known. What is important to me is to wake people up to the fact that citizens cannot trust government or its tool the media. That we lost our sovereignty when we allowed 'them' to murder Our President without consequences.

Paul, where was the limo during each shot? What was the sound like for each shot? What injuries were caused by each shot? Location of each shooter? How many shots ?

Pat, I posted three photographs of the VP follow up car illustrating back door open. 1 On elm where the left rear door is wide open where the motorcade stopped and the SSA are reacting to the first HPR shot they heard. 2 On Houston 3 Some where previous to entering DP

27:25 I have had enough Made for TV consumption... B.S. Jim Marrs points out in ALTGENS 6 that the SSA in VP follow-up car can be seen reacting to the shots. This is absolutely false, Mr. Marrs do you really understand what happened during the assassination? Marrs neglects to mention that ALTGENS 6 was taken at ~Z-255, which according to the WC/R playbook was over 3-5 second after shot number 1 and a second or more after shot number 2. Shame on you Marrs for insinuating that a shot had just been fired and photo depicts the agents immediately start to react. Proofs have been provided in another thread that the doors of the follow-up car remained open during the motorcade and absolutely remained open as the vp follow-up car entered DP and was traveling up Houston Street. Here is THE PROOF of when VP agents reacted to the sound of the first high powered rifle shot!

Jim Marrs, makes a remark at 15:20 concerning HOOVER (of all people!!!) despising bedroom antics of the KENNEDYS. I would like to know if there is any absolute solid evidence that KENNEDY cheated on JACKIE while President and with who. Books written after his murder claiming first hand knowledge or hearsay can be funded by CIA or get rich schemes at the expense of KENNEDYS integrity. I find it difficult, no impossible to believe KENNEDY would be so stupid as to have sexual affairs with the full knowledge that HOOVER had spies watching for behaviors that could be used for blackmail. KENNEDY had made enemies everywhere, he was not a stupid or careless person. I call B.S. 'JFK Assassination: Nothing but the Truth' - maybe more like nothing but B.S. Can anyone put up evidence or will we be able to dispense with the KENNEDY bashing that only diminishes his legacy. Is there anything of value in ''JFK Assassination: Nothing but the Truth" or is it primarily B.S.?

Paul, a quick review of SSA reports and you will quickly discover there is no consensus among the agents attached to KENNEDYS as to number of shots, type of sound each shot made, when shots occurred or wounds caused by shots. There is NO identification of location of origin for shots. TEN professionally trained body guards / agents were unable to identify location where "three" shots from a high powered rifle originated from. (TO THEIR CREDIT: NOT ONE OF THESE AGENTS CLAIMED ANY SHOT CAME FROM A BUILDING!) This is not ten incompetent men, this is ten competent men omitting and twisting evidence to attain support in a lie. Witnesses that were near the limo were able to identify the grassy knoll as the location for the shot that caused the fatal head wound, they also had no problem with the timing of shots, the sounds they made or results of the shots and identification of a shooter, some even indicated the locations of the limo at the time of various shots and the motion of the limo. Bystanders provided more valuable information concerning the assassination than government employees. Anyone doing a serious analysis of the assassination would do well if they did not consider the information provided by governmental or news media sources until they understood how the assassination occurred, then it becomes very self-evident as to how the truth was twisted by these two groups of witnesses.

In the simplest terms the assassination consisted of four shots, all of them coming from the right or JFK's side of the limo, from grassy knoll and monument areas, utilizing multiple shooters. The fatal head shot should be a wake-up call for anyone with even basic knowledge on the assassination. Although the Z Film depicts brain matter being projected forward we know based on multiple witness accounts that the brain matter was projected back and to KENNEDYS left, HARGIS could not have been sprayed as a result of a shot from the rear... Also if governmental and news media testimonies are disregarded, testimonial evidence is overwhelming that the shots came from the knoll and monument areas, this conclusion is supported by all film and photographic evidences.

Don, it must be the case that any news readers job is not to editorialize or openly dispute material placed in front of them to read, it is not the news readers that bear the brunt of criticism, it is the news media as a whole that aligned their industry with the conspiracy and cover-up efforts. RATHER is different, he saw the reality depicted in the Zapruder Film and made a conscious choice to boldly lie to the American Public to help sell the fiction of the lone nut theory, he sold his soul for some reason. It is also a fault of the American Public for blindly trusting that which appears on our screens to be truth! I believe to make excuses for the utter failure of the news media to present FACTS to the American Public is misguided sympathy in that a quick review of news casts show that they barraged the American Public with disinformation that without doubt was intended to confuse and confound us so that we could not understand what happened or what was happening. The news media in effect made sure that the American Public was neutralized to assure a smooth transfer of power, news media has maintained one continuous uninterrupted lie to prevent the truth from gaining effect. You are totally missing the reality of news media, the news media did not do a pathetic job they did their job and they did it superbly, results speak for themselves. You still are believing the news media is to disseminate news when in reality the news media primary function is to shape public opinion for the benefit of governmental powers and corporations.

Don, I currently trust information and conjecture from only a very few JFK researchers and Mr. Lifton is one of these people. Lifton proposed the alteration of JFK's body which must have been shocking at the time and I would guess he took a lot of abuse for publishing Best Evidence. He is a meticulous researcher and a fine writer and I am personally thankful for his contributions. I think he is a true American Hero for standing up and standing firm on what he uncovered. Lifton provided a gigantic leap in knowledge that was necessary to piece together the assassination mystery. Lifton mentions working on another book or two, I look forward to seeing them soon. I do wish he would address the questions posted.

Kathy You may excuse whomever you choose, to me the news media and entertainment industry has become the greatest enemy the American citizen has ever faced. IF you recall my focus on the news reader was on RATHER who knowingly with malice openly lied to the American public about what he observed in the Zapruder film while not disclosing vital information that may have resulted in demands from the American public for a full immediate disclosure. YES the news readers read the script, who was writing the scripts or where were the scripts coming from? You don't think ABC, NBC and CBS at various levels understood exactly what was really happening? The majority of the American public knew almost at once and with absolute certainty after OSWALD was murdered that KENNEDY was killed as a result of a conspiracy, but the news media could not comprehend this and continue to deny the reality of conspiracy even today. Sorry it is just inexcusable, The news media as we know must be dismantled in tiny independent segments with full autonomy from government and corporate corruption.

Paul, perpetrators...CIA / Mafia - LBJ / HOOVER ??? What does that have to do with understanding the mechanics of the assassination? It initially matters not who pulled the triggers in determining how the assassination occurred. What must be fundamental is to first determine how the assassination occurred, where the shots came from, wounds caused and where the limo was located during each shot, this realization gives a perspective that allows the perception to awaken to correlate almost all testimony with all photographic evidence, it promotes the ability to uncover how the truth was twisted to build the lies.. When the realization occurs on how the assassination happened the WC/R theory is no longer viable or defendable, I believe this realization will eventually force the government and media to admit their lies and force a fuller disclosure. You can not know how backward we have perceived the assassination until you realize the truth. It took me 49 years to go beyond the news media and Pundits misconceptions, lies, deceptions and befuddlements. The reason I was able to find the answer is because I continued to ask fundamental question that had no answers, so I went back to absolute basics and started analyzing the films photographs and affidavits from square one, like it was a new unknown event, I listened to what the witnesses said, instead of trying to maneuver what they said into a preconceived notion of the assassination. Testimony I had previously perceived as confusion became clear and corroborative with other testimony and photographic evidence, I was shocked to discover the truth was never hidden it had just been obscured. I realized that the lies and propaganda was so ingrained it had me locked into a single mode of thinking which prohibited me from looking at the assassination in any other way. This is how I see everyone on this forum and JFK forum, locked into a mode of thinking that has no resolution and does not square with the majority of evidence.

Kathy what follows is notes from first 30 minutes or so of NBC broadcast, this was shorthanded to capture the main points, I bolded the disinformation broadcast as truth. This disinformation mirrors CBS and ABC proclamations. This disinformation had a purpose and that was to confound and confuse the unsuspecting viewer, this was not three national news organizations temporarily out of control. Also note there is really very little good information, listen yourself and listen to exactly what they claim as truth. JFK - shot Mrs Kennedy - Oh no - HOW DID THEY KNOW THIS SO QUICKLY? shots - 2 JC - hit in chest Weapon - automatic SS - had no chance to return fire shots - 3 slumped shot before entering a triple underpass Man and women scramble on walk way limo was open catholic priests called reporters reached car at hospital Shots - fired at 12:45 shots fired as car was going under underpass shots - came as motorcade made its way thru huge crowds JC was seated on far side from JFK Shots - came from a window of building overlooking parade route Police fanned out around the area - no they rushed to rail yard! Police - witnesses saw man with a gun in the window <- BRENNAN and a ninth grader EUINS out of 4-600 witnesses in DP there are two that look to the window - BS The motorcade immediately speeded up - no it speeded up after supposedly three shots had been fired. They also neglect to announce the motorcade also slowed or halted as a result of the gunfire...even though every reporter in the motorcade would have known this as a fact! parkland shots - 3 shots - 4 shooter was a white man Policeman said it was a high powered rifle Pic shown of motorcade JFK - emergency room - Gov - operating room Police arrest man Shooter had a high powered rifle Arrested man says he can prove hes innocent Jean Hill interview WBAP Shots came from grassy knoll shots - 2 hit JFK Shot - more shots after JFK was hit <------------------ saw a man running on the grassy knoll Police arrest man weapon 30 30 JFK - last rites JC - shot in the shoulder blade in the back

Paul, details require context, the assassination is not understood even worse it is utterly misunderstood which leads to wild guess theories to explain the mysteries and the minutia. This hurts all efforts to bring the truth to light. Once the assassination is understood the details become self-evident. Case in point 1 frame Z-312 and subsequently there has developed an 11 shot wild kooky guess theory proclaiming to explain the assassination. The guess was wrong from the start but continued to compound out of all bounds of reality. IF it is not understood what happened, a researcher MUST start over and reanalyze the information from scratch, the evidence has always been available to discern the truth. There are 4 films of the assassination along with photographs and over 200 witnesses accounts, if you can't discern the truth from this evidence you are looking in the wrong direction, I promise you this is true!

Also of curious interest is BEVERLY OLIVER, she has a movie camera to capture the motorcade, although OLIVER has selected THE most advantageous location to capture the assassination, BUT she stands in a position where she is partially shielded by BREHM, why is she not at the curb like MOORMAN and HILL where she would have had a more unobstructed view? Was she concerned about stay bullets? BEVERLY safe behind BREHM? Supposedly Two shots fired from a 6th floor window with a rifle and here is BREHM, undistracted, applauding the President, wake up people your perception of the assassination is just WRONG! BEVERLY OLIVER is also somewhat hidden under a scarf (disguise) and she does not come forward to be identified as a witness or to claim her confiscated film for years. Seems like she realized the gravity of the situation after <being> where she should not have been, BEVERLY became scared and disappeared herself. Me thinks BEVERLY OLIVER knows more about the assassination than we know. Curious also is her connection to RUBY, everyone seems to be coincidentally connected to RUBY??? Add this Mr. SPECTER. Have you seen any other films of the assassination? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; I saw a black-and-white, but I didn't--I saw a black-and-white film. However, I didn't get enough out of it there to-- It is obvious to me that KELLERMAN blurted out this information without thinking, this was not supposed to be divulged, this is why he stumbles for words after letting the secret out. SPECTRE immediately changes the subject. Where is the honest published researcher demanding to know where this black-n-white film is? Who has asked KELLERMAN what he meant by this?

Brad, MARY MOORMAN and JEAN HILL were initially restricted access to DP by an officer but allowed to pass because of their affiliation with motorcycle police in motorcade per a TV interview with JEAN HILL. BREHM and his son can be seen in BRONSON video on Main and Houston just prior to the motorcade, they must have cut across also at the last minute. Not sure about BEVERLY OLIVER. But if you consider that MOORMAN, HILL, OLIVER and BREHM / son had been successfully restricted access to DP the path of exiting bullets originating from the knoll and monument areas would have been clear of bystanders. One of the necessary goals would have been to NOT injure bystanders because of the legal entanglements that could lead to unwanted revelations but also trajectories would be revealed. TONI FOSTER and many more witnesses can be seen rushing into DP in BRONSON Film just before the fatal head shot occurs.

Take care, do not be taken in by academics with tunnel vision that have continued to dissect 1 frame of the Zapruder film until all reality was lost from sight. I have listened to a litany of conjecture about 9, 10 or even 11 shots being fired and KENNEDY hit four times, absolute non-sense. These guys come off as know-it-alls when they actually understand very little about the assassination even thou they can be persuasive with their methodology and word play. IF you want to understand the assassination put the books down and most of the videos away, their messages will only lead you farther away from the truths. If they had a clue, it would be simple and logical. Just the idea of assassins firing 9, 10 or 11 shots is preposterous in that there could have been 9, 10 or 11 people injured as a result of this volley of fire. How 'they' going to pawn this carnage off on 1 guy with a Carcano? Plus this line of conjecture has snipers on virtually every roof top and bullets hitting all along the parade route. Why anyone gives this trash, time or real consideration is bewildering to me. This is the exact kookiness that prohibits the real possibility of uncovering and putting an END to the fiction produced by the WC/R.

Mark, if you are referring to 312-313 to indicate two shots to the head, that evidence must be considered highly questionable or simply ignored as false, it is evident that the Zapruder film has been altered to project images of KENNEDYs wounds being produced by shots from the rear. The absence of frames at that juncture of the assassination is the most plausible explanation for the forward head movement. We KNOW GREER was decelerating the limo prior to Z-313, we KNOW HILL began to move to the limo immediately after CONNALLY laid back on top of NELLIE, HILLS action followed immediately after frame Z-300, with GREER decelerating the limo, our President stunned by the first shot would drift forward while the rest of the occupants merely instinctively braced themselves, GREER did not slam on the brakes he slowed down to allow HILL to move to the limo. The perception that GREER hit the brakes as a result of the shot at Z-313 is inconsequential, the fact that HILL was moving to the limo prior to this must be considered to fully comprehend what was happening. Our perception that the SSA had heard two shots from a high powered rifle till this time is unfounded and unfortunately is a highly tenacious remnant of news media propaganda inserted into our consciousness since 11/22/1963 which has prevented understanding the assassination. The forward head snap is a false perception and out of context. The problem with the head movement is it is not taken in context of what was happening with GREER and HILL and the limo slowing prior to shot at Z-313. If you don't believe the Zapruder film was tampered with then you must have a plausible explanation for animated gif posted of the CONNALLY's movements between Z-314 and Z-323 and why Z-133 is not a start frame, just to name two anomalies out of many. This animated gif is frame Z-314 and Z-323 these frames are about 1/2 second apart, this animated gif changes every 1/2 second, this shows the impossible movements of the CONNALLYS between Z-314 to 323 It also demonstrates that the testimonies and interviews the CONNALLYS provided is mostly fabricated BOLD FACED LIES, this animated gif absolutely impeaches the CONNALLYs as well as the WC/R assassination theory.

About 9 minutes in Professor Fetzer claims "evidence" KENNEDY was hit twice in the head, where is the evidence that KENNEDY was hit twice in the head? Professor Fetzer mentions the limo slowing or coming to a halt and conjectures that the only reason for this was to allow time for shots, but the obvious reason was that CLINT HILL immediately after Z-300 started to transfer to the limo, this would have been coordinated with the follow-up vehicle and GREER was obviously slowing in response to allow HILL to board the limo to determine what was happening in the back seat and specifically what CONNALLY was doing laying down on top of NELLIE.

Paul, thank you for the reply, you have defined and refined the points extremely well, I agree with what you have posted. I had not considered that HOOVER could have put an end to the pro Castro Cuban connection, but he certainly could have done so and did. Excellent post, good food for thought!!! I tried the quote button, it does nothing, or the multiquote button for whatever reason my buttons broken.

Paul I just read Jack Whites post from 2009 in "Was Altgens 4 a message to Bobby?" Fletcher Prouty claimed 'coincidences' don't happen they are planned. Prouty's statement reinforces all of my points about the Cuban presence and association with the assassination, OSWALD activity in New Orleans, false CIA story of OSWALD visit to Cuban Embassy, OSWALD on the steps, the Cuban near Umbrella man, MAUSER - ARGINTINE connection to Castro so on.

Kathy, the paper is torn not bending, if you watch the entire clip this is evident. Jay Watson claims the copy is "torn off from UP' this would imply it was printed on the teletype machine. The crack about being blank is disclosing my total disdain for the propagandists who lied to us and continue to do so.

Paul, interesting points and I am in general agreement with how you stated the roll of the FBI vs hit team, deed verses cover-up. My point was the intention was to shape the assassination to incriminate Castro, this would have been done by the planners of the operation, HOOVER would be concerned with containing the investigation. The point is there is abundant evidence to show incrimination of Cubans in this operation and this was intentional, but it had no traction, I am proposing that we never witnessed this part of the plan in full operation because OSWALD lived too long. Obviously this is just conjecture. Side note It is obvious TO ME, the man with the umbrella and the Cuban were part of the operation, this is one of the best examples of putting a person who could be mistaken for Cuban in a position to be recognized and associated with the assassination. Not only is he at this location, he steps into the street and he is waving in an unaccustomed manner. This is unusual behavior and as such calls attention - INCLUDE -> standing near a man with an open umbrella!!! If I recall correctly, John Judge made the comment in one of his talks that Warren was absent most of the time during hearings and testimony and that Dulles ran the WC in his absence which was the majority of the time. On paper the commission operated under Warrens authority but in practice it was Dulles, the only information I have on this I believe came from John Judge, which I have great trust in. PS how do you quote another post???