Steve Thomas

Is this an area of research worth looking into? I vaguely remember in my past reading someone, (maybe Larry Hancock?) talking about the Cuban exiles connections, and also drug connections to Austin's BBQ. From: “A look back at Austin’s Barbecue” The Advocate. January 27, 2011 http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2011/01/barbecue-with-a-side-of-heart/ "Originally named the Bull Pen, the restaurant at 2321 W. Illinois opened in 1949. (It sat on the northeast corner of Hampton and Illinois," "In 1957, when Oak Cliff voted itself “dry,” co-owner Bert Bowman sold out his half interest to his business partner, Austin Cook, who changed the menu, the restaurant’s name and the hours of operation." "Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit moonlighted at Austin’s, working security on weekends. The Staff Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations reads “that he [Cook] had employed Tippit at the time of the assassination ‘as a deterrent’ to any teenage trouble from youths who frequented the establishment.”" "Due to a web of coincidental liaisons between Bowman and assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, the FBI interviewed Cook and many of the Cook and Bowman family members, with Cook telling the investigators that he never heard Tippit mention Oswald or Jack Ruby." "A man named Ralph Paul had purchased the restaurant Bowman opened after selling his share of the Bull Pen to Cook. Bowman’s wife stated she had known Paul since his 1951 move to Dallas and that at the time of the assassination, Paul was living in the lower level of the Bowman home. She reported that Paul was a close friend of Ruby’s and had expressed great concern for his friend after Oswald’s shooting. She also stated that Paul had brought Ruby by her home approximately four and a half years earlier, but that Ruby remained for only a short time." "Nothing came of the investigation." After Bert Bowman sold his half interest in the Bull Pen to Austin Cook, he opened another restaurant. He sold this restaurant to Ralph Paul. What was the name of the restaurant Ralph Paul purchased from Bert Bowman? Oswald allegedly shoots Tippit. Ruby shoots Oswald. Bert Bowman sells his half interest in the Bull Pen to Austin Cook who re-names it Austin's BBQ. After selling the Bull Pen, Bowman opens another restaurant. Ralph Paul buys this restaurant and lives in the Bowman home. Ralph Paul is Jack Ruby's best friend and business partner for years Tippit works part time at Austin's BBQ After Jfk's assassination, Tippit makes an unrecorded landline phone call from the Top Ten Record store. Tippit is killed Ray Hawkins makes an unrecorded landline phone call from a Mobil Gas Station at 10th and Beckley Hawkins arrests Lee Oswald. The handcuffs he uses to cuff Oswald are his own personal possessions and are later auctioned off for $250,000. Ray Hawkins has a permanent pass to the Carousel Club and visits several times. Austin Cook was asked by the FBI if Tippit knew Oswald or Ruby. Cook says no. Was Ruby ever asked if he knew Tippit? What do you think of the possibility that Tippit and Hawkins were calling the same person - --- Ruby --- to tell him that Oswald wasn't here, and they couldn't find him? What should they do? I think that the police officers' behavior in the Texas Theater was very suspicious. Three people; McDonald, Hawkins, and Brewer, said that Oswald was sitting by himself, and that Oswald was pointed out to them before they ever started down the theater aisles. Why did McDonald stop and frisk two other people before getting to Oswald? I think they were hoping Oswald would make a break for it and could be "shot while trying to escape." Steve Thomas

Chris, You might be thinking of Austin's BBQ. There is a slight connection between Ruby and Austin's though. Take a look at this site: http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2011/01/barbecue-with-a-side-of-heart/ "Originally named the Bull Pen, the restaurant at 2321 W. Illinois opened in 1949. (It sat on the northeast corner of Hampton and Illinois,..." "In 1957, when Oak Cliff voted itself “dry,” co-owner Bert Bowman sold out his half interest to his business partner, Austin Cook,..." "A man named Ralph Paul had purchased the restaurant Bowman opened after selling his share of the Bull Pen to Cook. Bowman’s wife stated she had known Paul since his 1951 move to Dallas and that at the time of the assassination, Paul was living in the lower level of the Bowman home. She reported that Paul was a close friend of Ruby’s and had expressed great concern for his friend after Oswald’s shooting. She also stated that Paul had brought Ruby by her home approximately four and a half years earlier, but that Ruby remained for only a short time. Nothing came of the investigation." Steve Thomas

It's interesting. I don't find anything in the literature about this Bar-B-Q place. Who owned it. Did they ever give an interview about what they saw... the comings and goings...? It's interesting. Steve Thomas

Just as a little side note (and not related to the topic of your thread - please feel free to ignore) CE 1673 in volume 23 of the WC Hearings page 144. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=176&tab=page shows the building at 1312 Commerce was owned by H.H. Nichols and Clarice Nichols. I wonder if Jack Ruby's girlfriend, Alice Nichols was related. Steve Thomas

Michael, I think the 1/2 part of 1312 1/2 Commerce meant that it was upstairs. The WC is full of stories about Ruby throwing people down the stairs. You might be interested in these photos: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/408701734911782916/ https://www.pinterest.com/perry_vermeulen/carousel-club/ It looks like the downstairs, or ground floor was a barbeque joint; the Real Pit Bar-B-Q Steve Thomas

I don't know much about photography, but I've always been struck by the fact that in the picture on the bottom left, the slats of the fence and the vertical post to Oswald's left are straight up and down. In the pictures on the top and the bottowm right, the slats in the fence and the vertical post to Oswald's left are slanting to our right. To me, it looks like "somebody's" picture has been pasted on a picture that was slightly cockeyed. Forget about Oswald falling over, that whole fencing and shed should have fallen over. :-) Steve Thomas

Andrej, Thank you. Steve Thomas

An Inventory of Texas State Guard/Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps Records at the Texas State Archives, 1938-1983, undated (bulk 1941-1945) These records are housed at the Texas State Library in Austin. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/30026/tsl-30026.html In January 1958, the TSGRC was reorganized as follows: an Active Reserve, a Ready Reserve, an Inactive Reserve, an Enlisted Reserve, an Honorary Reserve, a Provost Marshal Section, and an ROTC-NDCC [Reserve Officer Training Corps-National Defense Cadet Corps] Group. As the most important component, the Active Reserve was composed of a Corps Headquarters, one Corps Radio Unit, six Defense Group Headquarters, six Defense Group Radio Units, 30 Internal Security Battalions (about half of them strictly cadre units with officer personnel only), and 12 Radio and Rescue Detachments, with a total authorized strength of 10,000 officers and enlisted men. Members of the Guard would neither be liable for, nor exempt from, federal military service as a result of their membership in the Guard. Eventually 51 battalions were formed, each battalion containing a headquarters and a headquarters detachment, a service detachment, and a medical detachment, in addition to between four and eight companies. Up to fifteen air force squadrons, two battalions of field artillery, and several bands, were also authorized. In 1943 the 48th Legislature, by House Bill 585, changed the name of the organization to the Texas State Guard, and made a distinction between the active and the reserve militia. Battalion records, 1941-1947, They comprise the records of the 51 battalions of the Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard, plus records of the bands, unassigned companies, and air squadrons, 1941-1947. These records are both at the battalion/squadron level and at the company/detachment/flight level. The four Battalions in the Dallas area were the 19th, the 29th, the 35th and the 51st. The 29th Battalion was commanded by Major E.M. Dealey. E.M. Dealey would go on to become the publisher of the Dallas Morning News Battalion records, 1948-1971, undated, In addition to the quarterly strength reports, there are organizational files that include correspondence and memoranda, military orders (general, special, and field orders), reports of annual inspections, daily staff journals, battalion rosters, requests for reassignments, handbooks, etc. Much more voluminous, however, are the strength reports and organization files of the Internal Security Battalions and Security Units of the six Defense Groups of the Texas State Guard, mainly 1961-1971. The 1st Defense Group covered northeast Texas. As part of the 1st Defense Group, the 102nd Battalion comprised Dallas, Irving, Terrell, Kaufman (For records on the 488th, or documents mentioning any of the people mentioned in this thread, I think I'd look at the records of this 102nd Battalion). Administrative records, 1940-1983, undated (bulk 1948-1983), Types of records in these files include correspondence and memoranda; bulletins and circulars; articles; legislation and regulations; tables of organization; general orders and special orders; handbooks/manuals; station lists; assignment rosters Chronological files, 1941-1969 These records consist of chronological files dating 1941-1969. They include general and special orders from the Adjutant General's Department and the Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps; memoranda, circulars, and bulletins; chief of staff assignments and assistant chief of staff assignments (i.e., personnel assignments authorized by Col. Donald W. Peacock and Col. Weldon M. Swenson, respectively); station lists; and miscellaneous other records, for 1941-1969. Conferences Dallas Area Conference, [1963] Texas State Guard Association officers rosters, minutes, and programs; anti-communist publications; logs; (It makes sense to me that some, or all, of these people would have joined the Association). Steve Thomas

Andrej, (or anyone else for that matter) In his WC testimony, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm George Bouhe said, "... when I came in 1939, there were absolutely only three Russian-speaking people in Dallas and they were all married people, married to Americans, and so on. So I did not, so-to-speak, associate with any Russians that might have come or gone through Dallas from 1939 to about 1950. In 1950, approximately, a great avalanche of displaced persons came to Dallas from Europe. Among these were probably 30, 40, 50 people, native of what I would say of various parts of the former Russian Empire. By that I mean to say that they were not all Russian. They might have been Estonians, Lithuanians, Poles, Caucasians, Georgians, Armenians, and such, but we did have one thing in common and not much more, and that was the language. (Russian I would guess) It was a sort of constant amazement to me that these people, prayed God, for years before coming here while still sitting in various camps in Germany--they wanted to get to America, and if 1 out of 50 made a 10-cent effort to learn the English language, I did not find him." Does anyone know why there would be a sudden influx of immigrants from Eastern Europe into the United States in 1950? Steve Thomas PS: A regiment would have between 1,000 to 2,000 men. Without being in the same platoon, I'd be surprised if the SS Agent and Oswald knew each other.

I guess I'd add another name: Colonel Lawrence Orlov. Accompanied George DeMohrenschildt to meet the Oswalds for the first time in the Fall of 1962. A Record from Mary's Database: Record: ORLOV, LAWRENCE COL. https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=7127 Dallas oil man. Friend of George deMohrenschildt. Orlov and deMohrenschildt went to Ft. Worth in 1962 to call on the Oswalds. It's funny how a lot of these Colonels seem to be in the oil industry: Crichton, Logue, Castorr, Orlov. Steve Thomas

I think there is a very good possibility that Orlov knew the Paines. From the WC testimony of George DeMohrenschildt: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No, no; still active. I think it was in 1952--because I was not married---we still had the partnership. I was visiting Ed Hooker in New York at that particular time, and through him I met my next wife, my last wife. Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, who was she? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Wynne Sharples. Mr. JENNER. Tell me about the Sharples family. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. The Sharples family is from Philadelphia, Philadelphia Quakers. He is in the centrifugal processing business and also in the oil business. Mr. JENNER. Was the Sharples family wealthy? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Very wealthy. Mr. JENNER. Socially prominent? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Socially prominent. But not too interested in society, because they are Quakers, you know. But my wife is interested. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. We got married, I think, after her graduation immediately in the Unitarian Church in Chestnut Hills. Steve Thomas

Tracy, You're half right. The figure on the left is Jean-Rene Souetre. Nicknamed Robin des Bois (Robin of the Wood), he named his first born son "Little John". Steve Thomas

This is not apropos to anything, but I happened to stumble on it while looking for something else. Just for curiosity's sake: http://www.patriotfiles.com/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=1235&page=1 Steve Thomas

Next Trivia Question Who are these two people? Steve Thomas

It was petty theft wasn't it? And is the gerund, "losing"? Steve Thomas

Michael, Quoting someone named, Michael Clark: "The term is "Future Shock". While the term usually has more to do with the impact of accelerating industrialism on social psychology, I see, and am searching for, a comparable term that describes the planned, and actual, impact of the JFKA on the American and world psychology." "Future Shock" - that's a good term for it. PS: Thanks for the Cicero quote. Gorious banquet indeed. Didn't like Antony much, did he? Steve Thomas

Jim, I wasn't "deferring" to anyone. I was simply pointing out to Paul that the issue of "filing cabinets" or "little metal boxes" containing Cuban names has been addressed before, and where that information came from. As to their size, Buddy Walthers also said in his WC testimony, "then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. Mr. LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were? Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car..." It would be hard to imagine putting six or seven, two-drawer, or four-drawer filing cabinets in the trunk of your car. Steve Thomas

Paul, You might want to look at this 2014 thread from the alt.assassination newsgroup. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/z2VxKzrDLEg and read through Buddy Walthers' Report http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walther1.htm "Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall." and his follow-up WC testimony. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers.htm Steve Thomas Steve Thomas

George, The problem was that some people in the CIA were "running with it" even without a nod from JFK - ala Harvey's insertion of a ten-man team into Cuba during the Missile Crisis. God, what he could possibly have been thinking of? Steve Thomas

Michael, I was just reading something along these same lines just the other day - maybe it was Salandria? Whoever I was reading (and I'd hate to attribute it to anyone in particular in case I get it wrong), was saying that the conspiracy was so transparent that it was meant to be discovered. The damage came afterwards when the federal government failed to follow up and that said to the American people, "See, this can happen and there's "nothing you can do about it."" I mean, how can the HSCA determine that there was a 95% probability that there was a conspiracy, and the Justice Department just that lay there like some kind of foul smelling rotten egg? That's outrageous. Could you provide another line or two from Cicero's quote? I'd like to roll that around in my brain for a while. Steve Thomas

Larry, Whew. Several Things: 1) I don't mind if you babble. heehee You've taught me a lot over the years. 2) You might be interested in reading this article: https://libcom.org/library/strategy-tension at least the first 3 or 4 paragraphs. It echoes a lot of what you said in your post above, I think. You have to overlook the fact that he got the year of the Generals' Putsch wrong. This Guido Giannettini was no mere "journalist" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Giannettini 3) I agree with you about John Dulles. Between him and George Kennan they did a lot of damage. I remember reading about Kennan when I was a wee lad and thinking even then that he was pretty extreme. 4) Along with JFK's backchannel negotiations with Castro, I'd include his backchannel communications with Kruschev. Any chance that got out somehow? 5) What do you think of the Bay of Pigs veterans who came back and were incorporated into the US Armed Forces? I think I've read that some (if not a lot) of them were trained alongside of Green Berets at Fort Benning was it? Do any of them in particular factor in to how you see JFK's demise went down? Those guys must have been highly trained. Steve Thomas

Larry, "All these things are quite serious and is important to know about them; however in my view just because they exist does not mean that they were associated with Dallas." That was the intent of my original question. Earlier, you wrote, "All of which is my way of saying that that there is a real risk in approaching this case - and any major historical event - at the level Sanandria does rather than at the level a criminal investigator would. If you start at a very high level and with a pretty strong idea of what you are going to find, you are very likely to find traces of what you expected." In psychology terms, what do they call that? Projection? OTOH, should Dallas be viewed in isolation, or was it part of a historical trend? Was Dallas part of Serac's "armed struggle on a planetary dimension"? Steve Thomas

Northwoods was a set of hypothetical planning scenarios only as they related to Cuba. However, state-sponsored terrorist actions to sway public opinion was nothing new. Remember the Maine! (cried the newspapers). (If you believe that the Spanish ship didn't blow up the ship). (Which also happened to involve Cuba, but that's just a coincidence). I think the assassination attempt against DeGaulle in August, 1962 and JFK's assassination in November, 1963 are related. Aside from trying to keep Algeria as one of France's Departments, talk of DeGaulle being a communist and French Intelligence being infiltrated by Communists was one of the major reasons behind the General's Putsch in April, 1961. I think that the 1961 frustrations over the failed April, 1961 General's Putsch, the failed April, 1961 Bay of Pigs, and the failed April, 1961 coup in Laos boiled over and led to some serious planning for assassination as the only remedy left. With DeGaulle, there were attempts in 1961 and 1962. With Kennedy, it came in 1963. Steve Thomas

Clint Hill's Warren Commission testimony: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm We took the body from the hospital and departed the Parkland Hospital about 2:04 p.m. Roy Kellerman's original report: Between I p.m., and our departure from the hospital at 2:04 p.m. cst., a casket was obtained... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sa-kelle.htm An unsigned and undated statement from someone at Parkland. Price Exhibit 2 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf page 4. He left the Emergency Room, the President, at about 2 p.m. In an O'Neal ambulance. Shankles. Hospital Security Office. Price Exhibit 29 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf page 86 At about 2:00 p.m., we received word to clear a passageway through the emergency corridor of all personnel and within a few minutes the casket bearing President Kennedy's body was escorted out by Secret Service Agents and Placed in a hearse. Statement by Charles D. Gerloff Security Officer Dallas County Hospital District Price Exhibit 29 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf page 88 As the casket came out, Mrs. Kennedy at its side, I helped put it into the hearse and watched it leave at approximately 1:30 P.M. Statement by DORIS NELSON, R.N. Price Exhibit 31 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf page 92 At approximately 2:10 P.M. The President's body was taken out of the Emergency Room. Mrs. Kennedy was walking beside it,. All of the secret service agents left the area. Statement by J.C. Price Price Exhibit 33 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf page 113 of pdf file At the time the casket passed the cashier's office, I looked at my watch – the time was 2:20 p.m. I watched the hearse leave, then went back into the Blood Bank... So, what time did JFK leave Parkland? Was it 1:30? Was it 2:04? Was it 2:10? Was it 2:20? The two SS Agents agree down to the exact minute. This is probably based upon an official report that they both relied on when testifying. Was the one hour difference between Gerloff and Price because one was going on Central time and the other on Eastern time? Steve Thomas

David, I emailed you what I had. If you don't get this, let me know and I'll post it here. Steve Thomas