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Steve Thomas

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Posts posted by Steve Thomas

    J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Duke,

    There were definitely two and possibly three officers named Tippit (or Tippet), including one on the vice squad (Special Services Bureau), which seems like was always one of Ruby's targets to get to know; that one frequented the Carousel and Vegas clubs.

    The Tippit you speak of knew Jack in his Silver Spur days. I don't believe he was ever in the Carousel.

    Steve Thomas

    Angel Murgado (Angelo Kennedy)

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Gerry,

    Pat:

    We had flown the SAR in Charlie Bush's C-47 "Goony Bird" (Douglas DC-3 Mil/version). Davy was co-Pilot with Bush. Our routing took us from Opa-Locka, FL direct to the lawful P.O.E [Merida, Mexico]. RON'd there and flew to the island of Cozumel. 20 minutes after our landing at Cozumel, Ambassador Thomas Mann landed in the AM/Embassy-Mex-D.F. U.S.N. R4D-2 [uS Navy version of the C-47]. We flew on to Belize City, British Honduras the next day. RON'd there and then flew to Purto Barrios, Guatemala - where we were detained and flown to Guatemala City on a F.A.G. C-47. [more on that in the near term]

    Amb. Mann was accompanied by CIA/COS Win Scott, 2 WH-4 JM/WAVE -DDP Officers, and 4 Marine embassy guards "M.S.G.s" [who also were CIA assets], one of whom had spent 2 weeks with me in Havana after LHO's visit there during April 1959.

    If you see this, could you expand on LHO's visit to Cuba in April, 1959?

    Thanks,

    Steve Thomas

    LHO's SS number

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Dave,

    I think it is likely that Marina and/or the children did receive survivor death benefits after Lee's death,

    maybe someone can ask her.

    Btw. I could also not find any data for JFK there.

    I initially attributed the two SS numbers to Oswald's dyslexia, but I also know that there is some controversy with Oswald's tax returns being witheld, and the possibility that they might include unreported income.

    I wondered if people researching this angle should also be looking for LHO's tax returns under different SS numbers.

    Steve Thomas

    LHO's SS number

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    What does anyone make of this?

    In Box 6, Folder# 7, Item# 23 p.1

    http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

    There is a Louisiana Interstate Request for Reconsideration of Monetary Determination. (I thin Lho was requesting his undemployment compensation from Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall be reconsidered).

    The SSN number for LHO is given as 433-54-3937.

    Down below however, it says, "List other names or SS numbers under which wages were earned". In that box is written, "Claimant's wages were earned under SS# which is 433-54-3739." (Notice the transposition of the last four digits).

    In Box 6, Folder# 8, Item# 6, p.1

    http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

    There is a 1962 Federal Witholding state ment from I believe Leslie Welding for LHO which gives his SS number as 433-54-3739. There is a check mark next to LHO's SS number, as though someone thought it was important.

    According to the SS Death Index,

    http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

    There is no listing for a 433-54-3937 and a Dorothy Ellis of New Orleans, LA listed for 433-54-3739

    She was born in 1937 and died in 1997

    How could LHO be earning wages under that SS number?

    Does anyone know of other instances where these two SS numbers were used or transposed?

    Steve Thomas

    Oswald in Mexico

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Robert,

    Ron, are you familiar with this story it seems to provide a dimension to Oswalds Mexico City sojournings heretofore undisclosed.

    If you study the FBI's Cointelpro documents, one of the groups targeted was the Friends, because of their anti-nuclear stance.

    I once tried to find Ruth Paine's name in the Cointelpro documents coming out of Pennsylvania, but didn't find any.

    Steve Thomas

    How effective was U.S. espionage in the 60's?

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Jason,

    There is the possibility that at that point in time, Oswald was outed as an agent.

    I read once that Oswald was in the "hospital" for something like three weeks. Far to long for a simple botched suicide attempt. I got to wondering the other day if during that stay, Oswald was subjected to some of the same kind of treatment as Yuri Nosenko, and whether he could have stood up to it.

    Steve Thomas

    Chauncey Holt

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Hello Jack,

    Very good reasoning, Steve. One correction I think. Bowers from his elevated

    position saw the tramps in a GONDOLA car, not a BOXCAR. A gondola car has

    no doors, but an OPEN TOP and bottom trapdoor; it is used for carring grain, dirt,

    gravel, etc. Check it out. Now this poses a problem with Holt's story, since he

    claimed he and the other two were in a BOXCAR.

    Also...the false tramps were arrested far south of Dealey Plaza in a boxcar, according

    to the record. (IN THE VICINITY OF TODAY'S HYATT REGENCY HOTEL) Therefore it

    makes no sense that cops would MARCH THEM ACROSS THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS

    AND THROUGH THE PLAZA! A direct route would be north on Houston Street.

    All the fans of Holt and the false tramps overlook these details. Check it out.

    Jack ;)

    Yes, the accounts are inconsistent - which is why I think individuals confused details of the different arrests. Once upon a time I had started assembling notes on the arrest accounts and comparing them. I did this in the form of questions, one of which was:

    WHAT KIND OF RAILROAD CAR WERE YOU ON WHEN YOU WERE ARRESTED?

    Bill Bass (FBI) 6/15/92: “a grain car.”

    Marvin Wise 3/6/92: Wise was told that the three men climbed into a coal car.

    John Gedney FBI 2/26/92 “Gedney said that he thought they were lying on big sheets of steel on a flatbed railroad car when the police came over with guns, said don’t move and then arrested them and took them over to the Dallas City jail.

    Harold Doyle FBI 2/20/92 “They then got on a gondola, also known as a coal car, and were heading towards Fort Worth, when the train was stopped.”

    Doyle and Gedney’s arrest record: "These men were taken off a train boxcar in the rail yards right after President Kennedy as shot,"

    William Chambers: When questioned the three individuals said they were “on a freight car sleeping.”

    Another question related to the timing of the arrest:

    Lee Bowers in his testimony before the Warren Commission, vol VI, p. 288:

    Between 50 and a hundred policemen came up the slope within 5 minutes. “That’s right. Sealed off the area and I held off the trains until they could be examined, and there were some transients taken on at least one train.”

    From their arrest records:

    “These men were taken off a train box car in the rail yards right after President Kennedy was shot. These men are passing through town. They have no jobs or any means of making a living”.

    (According to the Dispatch Tapes of Channel 1, Marvin Wise reported his location at 12:38pm)

    12:38 DIS: 71, robbery of an individual, 2205 Cockrell. 12:38.

    At approximately 12:42pm, 71 reported his location as Corinth and Harwood:

    DIS: 71.

    71: Corinth and Harwood.

    DIS: Code 3.

    Many squads were being instructed at this point to proceed to Elm and Houston Code 3.

    He arrived and parked near the railroad tracks. He went to the TSBD and was assigned to the west side of the TSBD. . “He was sitting in his car and a man working in the railroad building waved at him. Wise and another officer (name forgotten) were told by the man that three men got into a boxcar about four or five hundred yards down the track. Wise, in company with Bill Bass, Roy Vaughn and Middleton (although Middleton denies that he was there) went to the boxcars and took the men of the boxcar”.

    Wise took the men over to the Sheriff’s Office, and while waiting to turn them over, asked the men for identification. Wise stated that he believes that two of the men had documented ID’s.

    He turned the men over to the Sheriff’s Office (Deputy name unknown), and went back to his radio”. He heard over the police radio that a policeman had been shot, and a little later heard that it was J.D. Tippit”.

    Notice the timing. The tramps have been picked up and are in the station when Wise hears about Tippit. (Tippit was shot at approximately 1:16pm)

    And yet, there is this transmission on the Dispatch tapes at 1:57 pm:

    1:57 Dallas Police Tapes

    1579. 61: 61.

    1580. DIS: 61.

    1581. 61: We have information from the agent out here at the T&P.

    Said that the train is stopped on the overpass, the

    Triple Overpass; that there was a person jump in the

    ninth box car from the front engine. Said he's hiding in

    the car.

    1582. DIS: Is the train stopped there now?

    1583. 61: I'm in behind the Texas Shool Depository. He has the

    train stopped. (voices) He said it is the ninth car from

    the engine, a gondola-type car; said he is hankered down

    inside.

    There is no way, of course to know if this person jumping into the ninth car from the front engine is one of those people supposedly sleeping in a gondola car or a freight car (see above).

    DID THE ARRESTING OFFICERS HAVE SHOTGUNS, OR JUST PISTOLS?

    When Wise reported to the sergeant in charge at the TSBD, “Wise was told to stop anyone who came out of the building and that he should get his [bOLD]shotgun[/bOLD] out of his vehicle”.

    “Wise exited the control tower; he and the four other officers ran to a coal car which was identified by an individual driving a locomotive engine alongside an adjacent track. Wise and Vaughn were the two officers who actually climbed up and then down into the car where they located three individuals. Pointing their [bOLD]shotguns[/bOLD] at the three individuals, Wise and Vaughn ordered the three to exit the car.

    FBI interview with Gedney 3/6/92

    “Gedney said that the officers that arrested them in the railroad yard had revolvers and he did not recall any of them having rifles or shotguns at the time of arrest. Gedney said that he was not sure if these were the same officers that arrested them in the railroad yard or not”.

    There are many other questions surrounding these men, such as, If they were told they were free to go, what were they doing in jail four days later?

    Were they, or were they not fingerprinted?

    “During the book-in, a thumbprint of the prisoner would be placed on each of the three copies”.

    (The Arrest Report on Investigative Prisoner contains no thumbprints)

    (Doyle says they were fingerprinted)!

    Gedney said that they were taken to the basement of the jail, and “may have been fingerprinted”

    It goes on and on.

    Steve Thomas

    Chauncey Holt

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Stephen,

    This leads into a third problem, the tramps are discovered well over an hour after the assassination holed up, as I said, in a boxcar, what on earth are these proto assassins playing at, surely once the job is done you get the hell out, once again I am forced to think that a car should have formed a part of their escape plans.

    I believe that the tramps were, in fact, arrested twice - once by the Dallas County Sheriff's Department, and later by the Dallas City Police Department.

    William Earl Chambers was interviewed on 3/3/92 by SA Gary Gerszewski of the FBI and Lieutenant Kenneth Lybrand, City of Dallas Police Department. William Chambers worked for the City of Dallas Police Department from October, 1954 until January, 1992.

    He was a Detective in the Forgery Division. He was at the Trade Mart when Kennedy was shot. Approximately 40 minutes later, he drove down to City Hall.

    In his FBI interview, it says, "After watching the individuals for a period of time, Captain Jones approached Chambers and told him, “take them into my office”. Once inside Captain Jones office, Captain Jones told Chambers, “find out which one shot the President”.

    “When questioned regarding the circumstances of their arrest, the three individuals indicated that they were on a freight car sleeping when they were wakened by officers with different colored uniforms than the ones worn by the officers who drove them down to the station."

    “They were briefly questioned by those officers who then told them that they better leave town. The three then boarded another boxcar and were shortly thereafter arrested by the City of Dallas Police Department”.

    (They were arrested twice. The first time, they were driven down to the station).

    “Chambers believes that the Officers who first interviewed the hobos were members of the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department, who at that time had uniforms of a different color than that of the City of Dallas Police Department. The hobos were then brought down to the station.

    Steve Thomas

    Bud Uanna

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Tim, Steve, et.al.,

    I encountered an Internet post on this gentleman by a Steven Uanna (his son).  The post refers to a website, www.securitysuperchief.com (administered by Steven Uanna) and states that the website contains an "important clue to the Kennedy assassination"--but, unfortunately, the  the website does not work!

    Try this website:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20040701200251/...superchief.com/

    He feels the same people who murdered JFK, murdered his father.

    Steve Thomas

    Harry Dean: Memoirs

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Lee,

    The man assisting Oswald, as well as the Asian looking individual seen at left - to the best of my knowledge have never been identified -

    From the WC testimony of Carlos Bringuer:

    Mr. BRINGUIER. [indicating.] See this guy, see this Japanese? He is from the Kasuga Co. here in New Orleans. He had the office in International Trade Mart.

    Mr. LIEBELER. And you pointed to the person standing immediately behind and

    to Oswald's right with his hands up behind his head?

    Mr. BRINGUIER. [Demonstrating.] That is right.

    RIF: 124-10167-10150

    FBI: 89-69-1609

    To: SAC, NEW ORLEANS (89-69) Date: 2/24/67

    From: SA Stephen R. Callender

    Subject: Assassination of JOHN F. KENNEDY

    AFO

    J. EHARA

    --------

    The above person appeared in photographs of OSWALD

    taken 8/16/63 taken in front of the International

    Trade Mart while OSWALD was handing out literature.

    89-69-1051 This reference is a 302 interview with

    JUNICHI EHARA of the Kasuga and Co. which was on

    12/2/63. He informed that on 8/16/63 he was leaving

    the building with John Alice and observed at least

    two persons passing out leaflets. One of these persons

    was later known to him to be Oswald and the other person

    he described as in his early 20's, 6', 200 lbs., (this

    second person is obviously STEELE), EHARA lokked [sic]

    at the photographs of persons in the front of the trade

    mart and identified himself, Alice and OSWALD in these

    photographs. He did not know any of the other persons.

    Steve Thomas

    Robert D. Morrow

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Tim,

    Once more Pat comes along with a post causing me to rethink my original carte blanche dismissal of Morrow.

    There was one aspect to Morrow's story that has given me pause - and that is the conterfeiting operation that he was involved in.

    In her WC testimony, Marina went to great lengths talking about a Mexican peso that LHO was supposed to have brought back from Mexico that had been drilled to accomodate a necklace or something.

    I have often wondered if the Mexican currency piece had something to do with the counterfeiting operation that Morrow talked about in his book.

    Steve Thomas

    ASSASSINATION RESEARCH 3/2

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    In case any members of this forum may not know, Chauncey Holt  identified himself as the third of the "three tramps" who were photographed being escorted through Dealey Plaza in the aftermath of the assassination.  Although some researchers have disputed his claim, I have investigated him thoroughly and am convinced he is "the real deal".  His review of CASE CLOSED, which is included in this issue of ASSASSINATION RESEARCH, should therefore be of special interest to everyone with a serious interest in this case.

    I was interested to read that Holt said he had been turned over to Deputy Sheriff Elkins.

    This coincides with what Elkins wrote in his after-action report - that a Dallas City Policeman turned three tramps over to him who had been picked up in the railroad yards.

    See Decker's Exhibit 5323

    Steve Thomas

    Questions for the Paines

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Tim,

    Also is there any truth to the rumor that Ruby was gay?

    Over December 4 - 6, 1963 Lt.Jack Revill and Lt. F.I Cornwall traveled to Fort Hood, Austin and Houston to interview some people. One of the people they talked to was Helen K. Smith aka exotic dancer, Pixie Lynn. On December 6th, she signed a sworn affidavit denying that she had been to any parties at which either LHO or Ruby had been present. She also denied knowing an alleged lesbian attorney named Barbara Welz.

    Her affidavit can be found in the DPD Archives, Box 5, Folder# 7, Item# 27. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm

    However, two months later, on February 5, 1964 a man named Travis Benkendorfer, a bartender at the Midnight Lounge in Houston, also signed a sworn affidavit saying that Pixie Lynn had told him on the night of the 22nd that she had been to several "swinging" i.e. gay parties at Jack Ruby's. Somehow the name of Barbara Welz, whome he described as a "popular lesbian in Dallas" came up and Benkendorfer was left with the idea that she had also been to some of Ruby's parties.

    His affidavit can be found in Box 18, Folder# 11, Item# 3

    http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box18.htm

    I guess Benkendorfer was the original source of information that led Revill and Cornwall to travel to Houston to talk to Pixie Lynn two months earlier.

    Then, you have the statement from Rose Charamie that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and that they were bedmates.

    Steve Thomas

    Jim Leavelle

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Carrie,

    [

    I really just got on here to find someone to give all of my research materials too. I don't need them anymore.

    I don't have room for 5,000 books, but if you can't find anyone to take your interview notes, I would take them.

    Steve Thomas

    Jim Leavelle

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Carrie,

    Or do you have a specific organization that you would suggest? It has to be non-profit. I am always open to suggestions!

    No, I didn't have a specific organization in mind, but one that does come to mind right now---

    Do you know where Mary Ferrell's papers are going?

    Perhaps Debra Conway at JFK Lancer would know.

    Steve Thomas

    Jim Leavelle

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Carrie,

    What I do have is 17 years worth of interview notes, about 5,000 books, Lord knows how many magazines and newspapers.

    Would you be interested in having any of these things that I mentioned? All I ask is that they aren't sold or misused.

    You've touched hisdtory in a way that not everyone can.

    Have you considered donating your material to an assassination information center?

    Steve Thomas

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