Jim Hargrove

According to this Find-a-Grave page, Roy Truly's wife Mildred was related to a rather famous family: Mildred W. Chenault Truly Rest in Peace. Daughter of William R. Chenault who was 1st cousin of famed WWII & CIA-affiliated Flying Tigers Gen. Claire Chennault. Her branch of the family spelled their surname with one "n" rather than two.

On August 9, 1963 “Lee Harvey Oswald” was arrested for an apparently violent confrontation involving his pro-Castro leafleting activities in New Orleans. Just two months after these so-called commie activities, the FBI took Oswald off the watch list, managed by its “WANTED NOTICE” cards, at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health. The WC didn’t even bother to depose the Division 5 guy (Gheesling) who apparently ordered the FBI's flash cancellation. “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been on that list for nearly four years, since the so-called “defection.” Now that he was taken off it, he’d no longer be under FBI and SS surveillance on 11/22. At the very same time the FBI was taking “Lee Harvey Oswald” off the watch list, the CIA was publishing several confusing things about him. Responding to a query from the Mexico City station, four CIA officers signed a cable giving lots of accurate biographical data on our boy but calling him “Lee Henry Oswald.” The three page cable expressed no security concerns whatsoever about Oswald and, in fact, indicated the Moscow embassy felt “life in Soviet Union had clearly had maturing effect on Oswald.” Nothing to worry about here! The Agency was giving him a clean bill of political health. This cable was signed by Jane Roman (Angleton’s assistant), William Hood (also close to Angleton), Thomas Karamessines (assistant to Helms) and John Whitten who, according to Jefferson Morley, was the only CIA officer of the four signers who suffered any adverse consequences for this troubling cable. Also in October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” This appears to have been a final test by the plotters to see if one “Oswald” could pass for the other in front of an experienced interviewer. Why? Because just four days after the second Oswald talked with Ms. Kittrell, a second Oswald began making provocative appearances at the Sports Drome Rifle Range and elsewhere in and around Dallas. Here are some of them: “Oswald” visits the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; On Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. Also on Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drives a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. On Nov. 6 or 7 “Oswald” visits the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and is referred to the shop where Dial Ryder works. On Nov. 15, “Oswald” goes to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applies for a job and asks how high the Southland Building is and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hikes on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduces himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discusses the President's visit, and asks to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” is already working). In recent years, some researchers have written that they believe much of the above can be explained by an internal mole hunt being conducted by the CIA. But are we certain of that? Or is it equally or more plausible that these documents are just what they appear to be: instruments to take the federal spotlight off Oswald so he could be framed for the assassination of JFK. If you are going to kill a sitting president in broad daylight, you simply must have a patsy to shut down any real investigation. Otherwise, that investigation will be relentless, and you will be caught. The mechanics for the set-up of the patsy appear to be right in front of our eyes. Does a “mole hunt” really explain it?

John, Speaking of boot camp (or right after, depending on who you believe)…. “Lee Harvey Oswald” was diagnosed with tonsillitis on 1/6/57, which is remarkable since the FBI told us he had a tonsillectomy about a dozen years earlier. Of course H&L critics want us to believe that this sort of thing happens all the time, but it mostly happens to “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Like, you know, when he loses two inches in height between the ages of 20 and 23, or when his adult front teeth grow back in his coffin.

That has fooled many people, including the at the WC. Compared to El Toro, the Santa Ana facility was tiny.

Looks like no one can seriously "explain" the impossibilities of the '59 passport, and so I'd just like to repeat my favorite example of all the Marine Corps evidence for two Oswalds, which is: Harvey Oswald traveled by ship to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. HARVEY Oswald Departed for Taiwan Aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105) on Sept. 14, 1958. Note "AKA 105" Under "Record of Events" near top left of this document: The Unit Diary below shows that HARVEY Oswald was in Ping Tung, Taiwan, on Oct. 6, 1958. Here’s a 1953 image of the ship Harvey Oswald took . Note the “K.A. 105” lettering by the bow. During this very same time Harvey was aboard the USS Skagit and stationed in Taiwan, LEE Oswald was being treated for V.D in Atsugi, Japan. From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital), located in Atsugi, Japan, show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital in Japan, are an obvious "smoking gun."

DJ, Thank you for bringing together all these USMC documents! Ever since I read H&L all those years ago, I thought the Marine Corps records were among the very best evidence of two Oswalds. It's just all over the place in those docs, which is remarkable since there was surely a serious effort to conceal them.

We believe that both Oswalds were at the TSBD that day, one leaving by the Nash Rambler wagon, the other by the bus and taxi. While Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald was downstairs, American-born LEE Harvey Oswald paraded around on the 6th floor and was seen with another man by Tom Dillard, Carolyn Walther, Ruby Henderson, etc. LEE may have been a shooter. But there were obviously other shooters. I doubt we’ll ever know their names. He didn't put it in the book as I recall, but John A. has told me that he doubts the other shooters were professionals. No contract killer, he speculated, would take the chance of murdering a U.S. president from the street in broad daylight. This was most likely done by someone who absolutely hated JFK, the most likely candidates being ticked-off Cubans. The usual suspects in the Agency probably handled them.

Sandy: My apologies, but Ron raises a crucial issue here, and I just have to discuss it, even though it is off the topic of the teeth. Ron: I have to disagree with your statement above. For more than a decade The two Oswalds run like a river through this story, including the months and the weeks leading up to the assassination, including the very day of the assassination, and I think they point DIRECTLY to the culprits behind JFK’s assassination. Sending a spy to the Soviet Union in 1959 was obviously an intelligence operation that had nothing to do with JFK. But people who knew about that operation were involved in diverting the Oswald Project from a patriotic spy case to the murder of JFK (see below). In May of 1963, Lee HARVEY Oswald, for no believable reason whatsoever, moved from Dallas to New Orleans. At the very time this Oswald was posing as a Castro-loving commie in New Orleans, LEE Harvey Oswald was working with Jack Ruby in Dallas, where he was seen by many witnesses. Read, for example, the FBI statement of Ruby-employee Odell Estes, who said he went on several weekend fishing trips with this Oswald, and saw him numerous times in the Carousel Club, at the same time the other Oswald was in New Orleans. (I couldn’t find the Estes statement on Mary Ferrell’s site, but I can post the whole thing if you haven’t seen it.) This, among other things, shows that Ruby was far more involved in the JFK hit than we previously thought. Just a couple of months later, with Lee HARVEY Oswald back in Texas, the FBI took Oswald off the watch list, managed by its “WANTED NOTICE” cards, at almost EXACTLY the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health. The WC didn’t even bother to depose the Division 5 guy (Gheesling) who ordered the FBI's flash cancellation. “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been on that list for nearly four years, since the “defection.” Now that he was taken off it, he’d no longer be under FBI and SS surveillance on 11/22. At the very same time the FBI was taking “Lee Harvey Oswald” off the watch list, the CIA was publishing several confusing things about him. Responding to a query from the Mexico City station, four CIA officers signed a cable giving lots of accurate biographical data on our boy but calling him “Lee Henry Oswald.” The three page cable expressed no security concerns whatsoever about Oswald and, in fact, indicated the Moscow embassy felt “life in the Soviet Union had clearly had maturing effect on Oswald.” Nothing to worry about here! The Agency was giving him a clean bill of political health. This cable was signed by Jane Roman (Angleton’s assistant), William Hood (also close to Angleton), Thomas Karamessines (assistant to Helms) and John Whitten who, according to Jefferson Morley, was the only CIA officer of the four signers who suffered any adverse consequences for this troubling cable. It was now no longer officially necessary for the FBI to monitor “Oswald’s” activities in Dallas. And the Secret Service would no longer be expected to investigate him prior to a presidential visit to Dallas. Although “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been arrested for a supposedly violent confrontation in support of Fidel Castro in New Orleans just two months earlier, the entire National Security apparatus of our Federal government now seemed to just stop worrying about him. What happened next, of course, has been documented by scores of writers and filmmakers for more than half a century. Someone who looked like the Oswald killed by Jack Ruby began making all kinds of appearances in and around Dallas. These appearances were clearly designed to attract attention. Here are just some: “Oswald” visits the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; On Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. Also on Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drives a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. On Nov. 6 or 7 “Oswald” visits the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and is referred to the shop where Dial Ryder works. On Nov. 15, “Oswald” goes to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applies for a job and asks how high the Southland Building is and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hikes on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduces himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discusses the President's visit, and asks to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” is already working). The set-up of “Lee Harvey Oswald” was almost complete. Could this have been accomplished if the FBI and the Secret Service hadn’t been put to sleep just a few weeks earlier? I’ll leave the events of 11/22/63 alone for now, but just look how much evidence there is that one Oswald got into a Nash Rambler on his way from the TSBD, while another took a bus and taxi. In what was surely a final test by the plotters to see if an experienced interviewer would be fooled into thinking one Oswald was the same as the other, both were sent to the Texas Employment Commission where they met with employee Laura Kittrell. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same, the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” This whole thing, I sincerely believe, was an intel operation created to provoke an invasion of Cuba and to retaliate against JFK for the Bay of Pigs failure.

I don’t know how Marine dentists and dental assistants would fill out their records. But I DO think the record below shows that a false tooth failed for the SUBJECT. I also believe that the FULL EVIDENCE shows one of the Oswalds lost a tooth at Beauregard School in New Orleans, but the Oswald buried at Rose Hill Cemetary CLEARLY did not. Just my opinion!

Sure, but what CIA accountant James Wilcott called "the Oswald Project" was already well underway in 1958, and the USG was not going to leave such obvious evidence, especially after 11/22/63. I intend throughout this debate to take your sister-in-law's professional opinion seriously, but despite what she says, there IS EVIDENCE OF A FAILED PROSTHESIS. I still think the FAILED PROSTHESIS evidence survived because someone at the FBI didn't realize what a prosthesis was.

And did you tell her that the kid who actually took the photo said the following under oath to the Warren Commission: Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.

Ron, I do think we should take seriously the professional judgment of your sister-in-law regarding the failed prosthesis notation, but I Sandy does raise some logical objections, at least from a layman’s point of view. I’m trying to get at least one other opinion from a professional dentist. But I have to say…. For twenty years now I have been amazed at the outrage presenting evidence for two Oswalds produces in a handful of critics. They often justify their hatred with rationales along the lines that “outlandish” theories will give all researchers a black eye, but in truth, anyone who says the Warren Commission Report is rubbish is branded by huge portions of the mainstream media. I have always been more interested in finding the truth than in currying favor with the masses or the mass media. Accusations of double Oswalds are widespread and nearly as old as the assassination. So where does all anti-H&L hate come from? It is interesting that your sister-in-law also thought the classroom photo does seem to show “a person who's missing at least one central incisor and it looks like portions of the adjacent teeth.” While they are proclaiming victory, will the H&L critics accept that professional opinion. Of course not! Even if our interpretation of the failed prosthesis notation turns out to be incorrect, there is plenty of evidence for two Oswalds, including two Oswalds in the Marine Corps at the same time. Thanks again for your interest in this.

Fair enough, Ron, but would you also ask your sister-in-law why the "FAILED 5-5-58” notation would be written in a box that states, “PROSTHESIS REQUIRED? (If ‘yes’, explain briefly)”? I’ve sent the full page and the detail to my dentist for a second opinion, but your interest in this is appreciated.

When a Marine Corps dental record indicated LEE Harvey Oswald’s prosthesis failed on 5/5/1958, Oswald was still several months shy of his 19th birthday. He was barely an adult. A couple of common-sense questions come to mind. How many teen-aged boys had false teeth in those days or any others, and, of those, how many had false teeth that failed while they were still teen-agers? I suspect the answer is not many. In wondering why a youngster would need a dental prosthesis in the first place, what would you think if you heard sworn testimony like Ed Voebel’s, describing a 9th grade fight this Oswald had with Johnny Neumeyer and his brother and the subsequent attack from a larger, older student a few days later that, Voebel thought, resulted in a tooth being knocked out. "I really became acquainted with him when he had this fight with this boy and we took him back to the boy's restroom and tried to patch him up a bit ..... The fight, I think started on the school ground, and it sort of wandered down the street in the direction naturally in which I was going .... it kept going on, across lawns and sidewalks, and people would run them off, and they would only run to the next place, and it continue that way from block to block, and as people would run them off of one block, they would go on to the next .... I think Oswald was getting the best of John and the little brother (Mike) sticking by his brother, stepped in too, and then it was two against one, so with that Oswald just seemed to give one good punch to the little brother's jaw and his mouth started bleeding … when that happened, the whole sympathy of the crowd turned against Oswald for some rea­ son, which I didn't understand, because it was two against one .... I don't remember anything that happened after that, but I think I just went on home and everybody went their way and then the next day or a couple of days later we were coming out of school in the evening and Oswald, I think, was a little in front of me and I was a couple of paces behind him and I was talking with some other people, and I didn't actually see what happened because it all happened so quick ..... Some big guy, probably from a high school--he looked like a tremendous football player-punched Lee right square in the mouth, and without him really knowing or seeing really who did it. I don't know who he was and he ran off. That's when we ran after Lee to see if we could help him.... I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip and a tooth was knocked out ..…” (Excerpted in Harvey and Lee, pp. 91-92] Being told that the victim's mother came to the school to take her child to the dentist, would you assume the need for a prosthesis came from this incident? The answer, of course, is most likely so. The assumption, according to the photo Voebel took, that LEE Oswald lost one or two of his front teeth in the attack, it would be likely that the child got a dental prosthesis, probably after the wound had healed a bit. So what is likely to have caused this prosthesis to have failed in just a few years? There could be any number of reasons, but the most likely seems to be that American born LEE Harvey Oswald, as opposed to Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald, was prone to get into fights, including in the Marine Corps. Here are descriptions of statements from three different Marines: Robert Demers told the FBI that Oswald got into fights with other Marines. Peter Frances Connor told the FBI that Oswald was a troublemaker and engaged in fights. The FBI indicated that Jerry Ellis Pitts, although he had little personal contact with Oswald, “bitterly resented anyone calling him by his middle name of ‘Harvey’ or the shortened name ‘Harv,’” and said that Oswald wanted fight with anyone who called him those names. (To John Butler: You were right. I forgot about Pitts.) The most likely reason that LEE Oswald’s false tooth or teeth failed so quickly is that he got into fights while in the Marine Corps. HARVEY Oswald did not get involved in fights. Just four months after the notation of the prosthesis failure, LEE Oswald began lengthy treatments for VD at the Atsugi, Japan Naval Hospital. At the very same time, HARVEY Oswald embarked on the U.S.S Skagit, traveled to Ping-Tung, Taiwan (1400 miles from Atsugi) and served there while LEE continued treatments in Japan. PROOF HERE.

I don't think so, Bart. In the documents you provided, Mr. Voebel did not mention a missing tooth, and why should he? He didn’t even mention that endless fight between LEE Oswald and Johnny Neumeyer, or the attack by the larger kid that Voebel swore he thought resulted in a tooth being knocked out. This fight is what started Voebel’s friendship with LEE, and yet it is not mentioned in your documents. And golly, if you’re so bored, why are you working so hard in this thread? Why are you here at all?

Oh, brother. Marina said she thought he was a native Russian because he spoke with a Baltic accent. (Fun fact: Did you know that Russia borders the Baltic Sea? St. Petersburg is a major Baltic port.) But, we all know Marina was in a difficult position, so let's look at some other evidence. This is from a post I made in 2017: Yale University Slavic Language Department Prof. Vladimir Petrov wrote that a letter supposedly written by Harvey Oswald was actually "written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English." And, of course, we're supposed to believe that, while reading Russian magazines with a Russian-English dictionary in his spare time in the Marine Corps, and while working full time in a factory in Minsk and taking only a handful of language language tutoring session, Harvey Oswald learned to write Russian like this: And, of course, we're supposed to assume that the H&L critics know more about Harvey Oswald's Russian abilities than his friend George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant who wrote the following in his manuscript entitled "I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY": Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian books and magazines . He said he didn't want to forget the language - but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian. As everyone knows Russian is a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif- icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly listened to Russian tapes and spoke to Russian friends . As a matter of fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as well as Lee did. No doubt we're also supposed to believe the opinions of H&L critics over the opinions of other Russian immigrants around Dallas who met Harvey Oswald and shared their thoughts: Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally surprised me ... it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know.... I said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English." Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the period of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely better than I would expect." Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I asked him if he was of Polish decent." And on and on.

Hi, Greg. Welcome to the forum! Like you, I have no dental expertise but I think the record is pretty clear that modern dental implant techniques were not developed until after Oswald was dead. Here is an excerpt from "The History of Dental Implants" at thedentalgeek.com (emphasis added): In the eighteenth century, forward thinking researchers began to experiment with gold and alloys, despite efforts these experiments often had poor results. In 1886 a doctor mounted a porcelain crown on a platinum disc; again yielding poor long-term success. The issue throughout time has always been that the body and the bone rejected the foreign bodies. For a successful dental implant, you need the replacement tooth to actually fuse to the bone. This is known as osseointegration. Modern dental implants are made out of titanium because it has special properties that give it a high success rate of osseointegration. In 1952, an orthopaedic surgeon unintentionally discovered these special properties. He realized he was unable to remove a titanium cylinder he had placed in a rabbit femur during a study of bone healing and regeneration. Upon realization that the bone had grown in such close proximity to the titanium cylinder that it had fused together, he continued to experiment further in both animal and human subjects. In 1965, Branemark, the orthopaedic surgeon, placed his first titanium dental implant into a live human volunteer. This was a pivotal moment in dental history and the process has been greatly improved over recent decades through research and a desire for perfection.... To Bart Kamp and Jerry Bojczuk: Obviously you don't care, but I plan to respect Sandy Larsen's request to just discuss the missing tooth evidence here. Would you like to discuss that?

John, You’re right that there are certainly some discrepancies in the timing of the leave. John A. has all the Marine Corps records at Baylor University, but the online portal was recently damaged by an update and I can’t use it at all. My inclination is always to go with John A., though. He went deeper into all of this than anyone. We agree that Robert was entirely in on the Oswald Project, though I think it was for entirely patriotic reasons. There’s a Garrison document somewhere that says, from memory, “If you want to know what I really think, it’s that Robert knew this returning ‘defector’ was not really Lee, and that why he had to take such a long drive the night of the assassination. He knew things were far more complicated than they seemed.” (I may have butchered that a bit, but the meaning should be about right). Sandy, John B put some earlobe graphics at the bottom of an early version of his tooth montage and I wondered if he should put it back in. On second thought, though, it’s probably better just to go with the teeth.

Maybe I can become a One Oswald LNer too! Let’s see.... All I have to believe is that a classmate who watched the fight and the clean-up attempt and who said he thought Oswald lost a tooth was wrong about that, even though Oswald’s mother had to come to the school to take him to the dentist. And the same fellow took a picture that sure makes it look like Oswald lost a tooth. And from the Marine Corps we learn that this Oswald had a false tooth that failed on 5/5/58! As a final step, all I have to believe is that the tooth grew back in the cadaver’s head while it was interred at Rose Hill Cemetery. Wow, becoming a One Oswald LNer is easier than I thought!

Ron, Ed Voebel said “I think” or “think” nearly a hundred times during his WC testimony. Here are some examples: "Yes. Well, I think one of them was in the same grade as Lee." "The fight, I think started on the school ground" "I think John was a little smaller, a little shorter than Lee." "Well, I think Oswald was getting the best of John" "but I think I just went on home and everybody went their way" "and Oswald I think, was a little in front of me" "I think that was what brought it all about. I think this was sort of a revenge thing on the part of the Neumeyer boys" "I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out" "I don't think he was that good" "I don't think he was a great pool player" "I think I met her one time" "I think the legal age here is 18" "I think in a way I understood him better than most of the other kids" "I think they have gotten worse" "I think we were in the same grade, I think we were." When looking at the detailed blow-ups of the missing tooth, remember that these are taken from a lithographic halftone reproduced in LIFE magazine. All those tiny little dots in the printed image can distort things a bit when enlarged. And, as you say, it hardly explains the notation of a failed false tooth in the Marine dental record.

H&L critics somehow have to deny what is right in front of their eyes, because the evidence for the missing tooth is game, set, and match proving there were two “Lee Harvey Oswalds.” Although there is lots of other evidence, none is needed beyond this. Here is a larger excerpt from Ed Voebel’s sworn testimony, in which he describes in detail the fight between LEE Oswald and Johnny Neumeyer which resulted in Oswald losing a tooth (emphasis added). Mr. JENNER. Tell me the circumstances of that, please. Mr. VOEBEL. Well, the day before, maybe a couple of days before, Lee had a fight with a couple of boys. Mr. JENNER. Do you know their names? Mr. VOEBEL. They were the Neumeyer boys, John and Mike. Mr. JENNER. John and Mike? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. They were classmates? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes. Well, I think one of them was in the same grade as Lee. One was older than the other one. The younger one was maybe a grade or two below Lee, and Lee was in a fight with John, the older one. Mr. JENNER. Let's see, if I have that straight now. Lee was in a fight with the elder of two Neumeyer brothers; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Right. He was in a fight with John Neumeyer. The fight, I think started on the school ground, and it sort of wandered down the street in the direction naturally in which I was going. Mr. JENNER. Was it a protracted fight? Mr. VOEBEL. Protracted? Mr. JENNER. Yes; did it keep going on? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, it kept going on, across lawns and sidewalks, and people would run them off, and they would only run to the next place, and it continued that way from block to block, and as people would run them off of one block, they would go on to the next. Mr. JENNER. That was fisticuffs; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Right. Mr. JENNER. Were they about the same age? Mr. VOEBEL. Oswald and John? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. VOEBEL. I don't know; I guess so. Mr. JENNER. How about size? Mr. VOEBEL. I think John was a little smaller, a little shorter than Lee. Mr. JENNER. Do you know what caused the fight? Mr. VOEBEL. No; I don't. I don't remember that. Mr. JENNER. But you followed this fight from place to place, did you not? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Why, were you curious? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; and well, it was also on my way home, going that way. The fight traveled my route home. Mr. JENNER. All right, what happened as this fight progressed down the street? Mr. VOEBEL. Well, I think Oswald was getting the best of John, and the little brother sticking by his brother, stepped in too, and then it was two against one, so with that Oswald just seemed to give one good punch to the little brother's jaw, and his mouth started bleeding. Mr. JENNER. Whose mouth? Mr. VOEBEL. Mike Neumeyer. Mr. JENNER. The little boy? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. Mike's mouth started bleeding, and when that happened, the whole sympathy of the crowd turned against Oswald for some reason, which I didn't understand, because it was two against one, and Oswald had a right to defend himself. In a way, I felt that this boy got what he deserved, and in fact, later on I found out that this boy that got his mouth cut had been in the habit of biting his lip. Oswald might have hit him on the shoulder or something, and the boy might have hit his lip, and it might have looked like Oswald hit him in the mouth, but anyway, somebody else came out and ran everybody off then, and the whole sympathy of the crowd was against Lee at that time because he had punched little Mike in the mouth and made his mouth bleed. I don't remember anything that happened after that, but I think I just went on home and everybody went their way, and then the next day or a couple of days later we were coming out of school in the evening, and Oswald I think, was a little in front of me and I was a couple of paces behind him, and I was talking with some other people, and I didn't actually see what happened because it all happened so quick. Some big guy, probably from a high school--he looked like a tremendous football player--punched Lee right square in the mouth, and without him really knowing or seeing really who did it. I don't know who he was, and he ran off. That's when we ran after Lee to see if we could help him. Mr. JENNER. He just swung one lick and ran? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; that's what they call passing the post. He passed the post on him. Mr. JENNER. Passed the post, what's that? Mr. VOEBEL. That's when somebody walks up to you and punches you. That's what's called punching the post, and someone passed the post on Lee at that time. Mr. JENNER. You think that might have happened because of the squabble he had with the two Neumeyer boys a day or two before? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think that was what brought it all about. I think this was sort of a revenge thing on the part of the Neumeyer boys, so that's when I felt sympathy toward Lee for something like this happening, and a couple of other boys and I--I don't remember who they were, but they brought him back in the restroom and tried to fix him up, and that's when our friendship, or semi-friendship, you might say, began. We weren't really buddy-buddy, but it was just a friendship, I would say. Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out. As Bart Kamp showed in the previous post, Mr. Voebel told the FBI “that he was taking photographs for inclusion in the Beauregard Yearbook and had been stopping in various classrooms, unannounced, and taking pictures of the classes in session. He stated that OSWALD’s clown-like attitude in the photograph appeared spontaneous on the part of Oswald and was not posed at the suggestion of VOEBEL” Here is the famous photo, and some blow-up details, as it appeared in LIFE magazine As if this wasn’t enough proof, Sandy Larsen discovered confirmation of the missing tooth in a Marine Corps dental record indicating that the PROSTHESIS “FAILED 5-5-58.” Here is how www.medicine.net defines “Prosthesis:” Prosthesis: An artificial replacement of a part of the body, such as a tooth, a facial bone, the palate, or a joint. A prosthesis may be removable, as in the case of most prosthetic legs or a prosthetic breast form used after mastectomy. Can there be any doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald lost at least one tooth at an early age? H&L critics have to try and create doubt, because the body exhumed in 1981 clearly had these teeth intact. Below is a high quality copy of an ORIGINAL exhumation photo Marina Oswald Porter handed to John Armstrong during one of their meetings in the 1990s. Finally, here’s a handy photo montage John Butler put together. The top row shows one Oswald (Harvey) with all his teeth intact. The bottom row shows the other Oswald (Lee) with missing teeth. Two clearly different sets of teeth for two different Oswalds!

But since Mr. Voebel swore under oath that he thought "Lee Harvey Oswald" DID have a tooth knocked out, the above is pretty irrelevant, don't you think? How inconvenient for you that Mr. Voebel also took a picture of "Oswald" with a missing tooth.

Didn't Mr. Parker once claim that liquid sealant was a prosthesis and that the sealant was the "prosthesis" that failed? After his little Amen Corner was done congratulating him for this outstanding analysis, he probably thought better of things and withdrew the silly argument, as well he should.

Sandy, Marina said he spoke with a Baltic accent and that she didn’t realize that he was a foreigner. But this gets complicated because Marina was trying to hide the fact that she spoke English (Robert Webster said she spoke good English but with a heavy accent). If Marina said “Oswald” spoke English, she would have to admit that she did too. It’s almost funny. Both these spies were trying to hide the fact that they could speak each other’s languages.

John, From H&L: November/December-Lee Oswald in Fort Worth (November 15 thru December 11, 1958) On November 19, Marine Corps records show that Lee Oswald took a 30-day leave, but there is no indication where he stayed during his leave. According to Robert Oswald, Lee spent some of his time in Fort Worth and they hunted with .22 rifles at his in-laws (the Mercers) farm. Robert said, "I recall this to be in the early fall of the year­ perhaps September."96 Robert Oswald's memory was a bit off. Lee Oswald's leave was from November 19 to December 18, 1958. Robert Oswald continued, "I recall two times that we had this type of light hunt­- ing out there at that farm, at the same place. One time was during a leave that he had from the Marine Corps. I don't recall any game at that particular time that we shot. I know we did handle the rifle and fired maybe target practice, something along that line."97 Robert took a photograph of Lee holding a rifle during one of those leaves. He published a photograph of his husky, thick-necked brother between pages 96 and 97 in his book, Lee. 58-27 -- (From Harvey and Lee, pp. 208-209) Note also that LEE opened a bank account at the West Side State Bank in Fort Worth on Dec. 8, 1958.