Andrej Stancak

17 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

I took the new James Poser and scaled him down at 96.5% (2.5inches too tall) to match the existing Oswald height.

Is Poser the correct height now or do I need to upscale Oswald to Poser's height?

Just to be clear, does the measurement via the checkered path(30 inches mentioned) equal your leg length (not the inseam) for Oswald?

Thanks, Chris for the new overlay. As far as the leg length is concerned, yes, the 30 '' interval corresponds to the leg length measured by the method recommended on the cyclist webpage.

However, I was puzzled by the necessity to downscale James Poser to match Lee Oswald's body in the NO PD picture. Could you please try to overlay the figure below - I have calibrated the measuring stick and found about a half of inch difference over the 8 feet stick compared to the Sketchup tape measure. Also, I changed the focal length of Sketchup camera from a very wide angle to a standard focal length. I wonder if you still need to downscale James to match Lee Oswald in NO PD picture.

If this problem continues, it could be due to "taping" the ruler onto a 2D photograph. The ruler on a 2D picture, of course, suggests it has been mounted on the wall. However, Lee stood an inch or two in front of the wall and his body had a depth. Thus, although Lee's body is perfectly aligned to a 5'9'' height in the 3D picture, actually, due to perspective and depth, his height would not be 5'9''. I am not sure if he would be taller or shorter than 5'9'', this may depend on the view angle of the camera.

Chris:

Here we go with some realistic measurements of James Poser's body. The top picture is the overall figure. Strangely enough, James Poser has white hair after importing from Poser, therefore, the next picture shows the top of his head so that it is possible to check that his body height was 5'9''. The final picture is a detailed view of James Poser's inseam region. I read the height of his inseam as 2'6'' or 30''. 

44 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Andrej,

Instead of creating more work for yourself, is it possible using the scale I supplied, and I'm assuming that the bottom of your lower block is the ground, can you tell me how long Oswald's leg is?

  

Chris:

I am not working with absolute dimensions of human bodies until I get the mannequins into Sketchup, however, I can do it easily if the purpose is only to measure the length of the inner leg (just ignoring that the guy is triangulated and the colors are weird...). Do you want to know how long is his leg in the James Poser mannequin in the left-hand panel of your composite when this mannequin is 5'9''?

4 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Andrej,

I"m assuming the bottom of the lower block to the top of the upper block represents 69 inches.

The splice into 8th's should provide the approx mid-point in height for 69 inches. (My inseam is half my height. I'm 72.5 inches tall.)

The inseam on the mannequin appears to be approx 28 inches representing somebody who is 69 inches tall. (See bike link previous posting)

That seems quite low.

If you were to place the bottom of the lower block even with the tip of Oswald's shoe, the distance to the inseam on the mannequin now becomes 32 inches, much closer to the shortest inseam mentioned in the bike forum response for someone who is 69.5 inches tall.

 

 

 

 

Chris:

I fully agree that the "inseam" in Lee Harvey Oswald is very low. The point is that we do not measure the inseam height as you, myself or people on the cyclist forum would do by measuring the inner length of their legs (from the sole of the foot or from the ankle). We cannot do it on the NO PD photograph because Lee Oswald wore pants which were not tailored to copy his legs; instead, they create a bag and move his pants "inseam" very low. I can lift his inseam but cannot simulate the hanging pants in Poser, and actually, what matters is how Lee looked with his pants on. My original mannequin had inseam close to 50%  and the hight of inseam was suggested the Poser program. Poser had it certainly right, however,  a mannequin with shorter legs than an average man fitted the Darnell still much better. I took it as one more hint that Prayer man could be Lee Harvey Oswald. 

I will prepare two more mannequins by pushing the inseam in two steps (about 2 and 4 inches ) higher and would be grateful if you could have a look and say which would be the best. However, I assume that I am not modeling Lee Oswald's true inseam height (because I cannot measure the length of his inner leg)  but rather the  "pants inseam", the one we see in his NO PD photograph and which is much lower than his true inseam.

What I also can do is to model a reasonable inseam (e.g., 32 inch) and then sculpt his pants to drag a portion of the pants down to reproduce his NO PD figure. However, this can only be done outside Poser.

Thanks for taking time to analyse the inseam problem, I really appreciate. I am postponing the final export into Sketchup, which is a lengthy process, till agreed what height of the inseam would be optimal.

Chris:

I have not evaluated or measured the height of inseam in my model or in Lee Harvey Oswald because wearing loose slacks precludes seeing the perineum which is a prerequisite for measurement of inner leg length. We cannot have precise measurement of the height of inseam from the photograph I posted. However, I was able to align the approximate "inseams"  on the pictures above by drawing horizontal lines which cross through the homologous points on the Poser mannequin and Lee Oswald's figure. The line which is the closest to inseam is the horizontal line between the one crossing the waist and  the one crossing the knees.

I am not sure why did you draw the 8-division lines. The second blue line from the top should delineate the face but it does not. Thus, 7 1/2 works better than 8 because the height of the head (if known) can be used to extrapolate the body height in absence of clear view of the full body. Do I miss something?

6 hours ago, John Butler said:

Consider a head size variation of 1 inch caused by thick hair or thickened hair to cover incipient balding.  Let's say the wrong measurement makes the head 1 inch larger.  How does this translate to the body.  The person being measured becomes 7.5 inches taller if you are using a 1:7.5 ratio.  Oswald, if Prayer Man is Oswald, then he could now become 6'6.5" as a top height.

The top of Prayer Man can be seen in the Darnell still I used, and it is crossed by the yellow line in my drawing. 99% of human bodies fit with 7 1/2 ratio. As you could see, I have checked if Oswald's body fitted the 7 1/2 rule and it did (this is the picture with Lee Oswald taken by the NO PD). I did not make Prayer Man a dwarf. He was a tall man because he stood effectively on the second step and yet he reached to Buell Wesley Frazier's shoulder line. I have measured this height in my 3D model. The 7 1/2 ratio method does not give any absolute height value at all, it only shows where to would Prayer Man's feet reach if the 7 1/2 rule applied. It is a simple and approximate method, yet it provides one more independent clue that Prayer Man stood on the second step (with one foot only as my 3D reconstruction shows).

I see no signs of alterations of Prayer Man or of anyone else in Darnell.

My measurements did not make Prayer Man a dwarf unless you want to say that a man 5'9''  can be labeled a dwarf.

18 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

The more exact you are, the better.

For instance: What is the distance of the combined gaps?

In the meantime, I have prepared a better version:

And the Darnell still:

The revised figures are shown in http:/thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com .

4 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Your story above is actually pretty good and kudos to you for writing it. Still, it just seems too far-fetched that all of this planning would have been ruined by allowing Oswald to lurk out there.

The story has been largely suggested by Mr. Walt Brown in his excellent book "Treachery in Dallas" (Carroll and Graf Publishers, 1996), I have added few details to this scenario. The scenario is internally consistent and it does not object any known evidence pertaining Lee Harvey Oswald's movements. I will elaborate the story with accurate quotations and data in the future.

My statement "He travels to his rooming house, ...." avoids the disputes about whether Oswald travelled via the bus-taxi route or was taken by car right there on the Plaza which dispute is of lesser importance than the scenario itself. 

While it appears incomprehensive that Lee Harvey Oswald would pop up in the doorway, I find it very logical and consistent with what he was doing from his young age of 15 or 16. Whatever he did had two ends. He read Marx and communist literature, however, he never seeks close collegiate relationships with members of communist or socialist party. He is handing over pro-Castro leaflets which are stamped 544 Camp Street, the office of Guy Banister. There are many more examples to his actions which are often difficult to read. 

Addition: I may not have answered the seemingly unexplained courtesy of Lee Harvey Oswald when he offered the taxi to an old lady. Lee Oswald assumed he had some time until his name would eventually pop up in the news. He had to be in the Texas Theatre at a certain time (after 1PM? ) at which time the rifle was not even discovered, and therefore his name could not have perspired. It would eventually happen, however, not sooner than maybe in the evening. If not the Tippit shooting, finding the rifle and the name A.J. Hiddell would still not connect to Lee Harvey Oswald. Another investigation would be necessary to link Hiddel with Oswald. Thus, Lee Harvey Oswald could still pretend that he was not in a hurry, and offer the cab to the old lady. However, he then asked the cab driver to stop about a block past his rooming house - this is his typical conspiracy behaviour.

People naturally excel in some activities. Some people are excellent tennis player because they combine their natural talent with dedication and lot of training. Other people can excel in science, chess, or some odd activities like long and accurate spitting. Lee Harvey Oswald excelled in acting in a covert manner in such a way that any of his actions had two (or more) different meanings or goals. He acquired his "skill" based on the combination of his upbringing and watching and learning the role seen in "I led three lives". Lee saw maybe all of about 100 episodes and reprises of this TV series. I watched few episodes of this series to understand what it would do with a 15-16 year old boy who did not have any other positive template or goal in his life. The spy who worked for the FBI and infiltrated the communist circles, a double agent, behaved exactly as Lee did so often. The small detail of asking the cab driver to drive him past his rooming house is as if cut from "I led three lives".

I am studying the standard body proportions in humans to strengthen the 3D model of Prayer Man. Visual artists employ a 7 1/2 (some prefer eight) ratio between the height of the head and the height of the entire body. The head size also allows estimating the relative sizes of different body parts with a reasonable accuracy. You can read about 7 1/2 head-body ratio here: https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-techniques/drawing-proportions-human-body-ameral/ .

I have applied the 7 1/2 rule to Lee Harvey Oswald's body, and it worked well. The grey rectangles are adjusted to match the height of Lee's head. And there were 7 1/2  heads which covered his entire body. 

I then took the 7 1/2 rectangles and copied them on Darnell still while adjusting the sizes of the rectangles in such a way that each full rectangle matched the height of Prayer Man's head. The Prayer Man's head is delineated by two horizontal blue lines. The lower pair of blue lines indicate the edges of the top landing and second step. Well, the 7 1/2  heads reached the tread of the second step. 

This simple but clear and convincing analysis supports the view that Prayer Man was a man 5'9'' and standing on the second step (with his right foot only, though). Would this simple analysis been applied back then in August 2013, or at any time point later, we could save ourselves a lot of confusion and blind avenues. 

David:

If you push Prayer Man further back towards the glass door, you will also increase the distance between Prayer Man's right elbow and the edge of the red column brick. Please mind that Prayer Man's head was crossed by the vertical line of the door frame in Darnell. If you would like to push him further back, it could be only along the line connecting Prayer Man's head and the door frame. Again, you are free to do so, however, other parts of Prayer Man will be misaligned. My view is that the lighter shade on hands is due to a small part of the hand being exposed to the sunlight which spot was then blurred - basically averaged with the surrounding darker color of the hand. Another possibility could be that the hands receive a reflected light from somewhere since it was a sunny day and white or light colored surfaces reflected light strongly. The images are very blurred and the left thigh is hardly seen, yet it is of lighter color than the rest of Prayer Man's body. I think he wore a dark grey or khaki coloured pants, and those did not reflect the sunlight strongly. They just appear to be of a bit lighter color.

The shadow in the doorway as it was on November 22, 12.30 PM  can be seen in the overhead view of the doorway. 

By the way, it would not be difficult to bend Prayer Man's right hand just by one inch and it would not be in the sunlight.

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

The man below in HUGHES who appears to be Lovelady....  who must be in front of where PM would be...
I also think this confirms the removal of frames at some point when he moves to his left by the time of Altgens...

The Black Man is down a step or two...  Wesley simply cannot be found on the steps pre-shooting.

At the far right... if PM's foot was on the top step wouldn't we expect to see more of him i the light?

(edit:  see PM more like Lovelady in Hughes....  if that's Lovelady and if PM was that far forward)

David:

I guess the man wearing a white T-shirt in Hughes is Billy Lovelady. While I cannot prove it at this stage, I assume that Lee Harvey Oswald was not in the doorway yet, he arrived later. It would be hardly possible to accommodate this Lovelady's figure and Prayer Man's figure (at his Wiegman location) in Hughes stills.

Buell Wesley Frazier: he was very likely down on the steps at some point, however, I understand that it was minutes before the motorcade was passing the Depository building. In the critical period (e.g., starting with Hughes film), Mr. Frazier stood back there in front of the glass window, in the central-western part of the doorway. For that reason, he is not seen in Altgens6. He stepped slightly forwards (while keeping himself to the top landing) to the front edge of the top landing in Darnell. In none of the video documents can Buell Wesley Frazier be seen on any step below the top landing. 

As what part of Prayer Man was illuminated by the light, it was basically his left thigh, back of his right hand, and possibly the knuckles of his left hand.  

2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Andrej,

Does James (Poser mannequin) need more adjusting?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAzc3DbJrMBE32XxOrFfqPwzzC0tgbVr/view?usp=sharing

Chris:

thanks for an interesting and useful overlay. Would you like to see the mannequin to match the exact posture and body contours of Lee Harvey Oswald as he was photographed by the NO PD? I was happy with the body proportions which, as the horizontal lines indicate, match in both figures quite well. Or, do you think that the body proportions of James Poser do not match well Lee's body? I would be only worried if the latter would be the case and, of course, I would make a correction.  

On 4/30/2018 at 11:31 PM, Michael Walton said:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.100.html

Another blistering critique of Andrej's cartoon.  People DO NOT stand that way Andrej.  You're trying to fit a straight oversized leg in a round hole here. It's as simple as that. And besides this whole "PM is Oswald" goes against every single piece of plausibility and realism. Why would the murderers allow their patsy to even be out there during this crucial period, after planning this murder for the last 6-7 months? All of the groundwork that was laid down, only to see it go up in smoke when the victim of the murder enters the kill zone and the patsy wandering around outside instead of hiding himself up in the lunchroom.

OSWALD: So what am I supposed to do?
PLANNERS: Well, don't you know? Go right on out the front door and catch a glimpse of the President. And take a few photos while they go by.
OSWALD: OK.

HAHAHAHA!!!

Lee Harvey Oswald leaves his wedding ring and almost all the money he had to Marina when leaving for work on Friday morning.

Lee Harvey Oswald travels to work with Buell Wesley Frazier. He carries a package which was probably a small lunch sack, and which Buell Wesley Frazier claimed it had measured 27’’. Did he also carry a rifle to work? In my opinion, he did and Buell Wesley Frazier knew it.

Lee Harvey Oswald realised he has been dragged into a fatal game right after the shooting, particularly when Gloria Calvery reached the doorway and started to talk about the President being killed. Lee Harvey Oswald is seen in Darnell staring towards the Records building. He is in the state of shock, motionless and is trying to comprehend what does the shooting mean for him. Within the next two minutes, Lee Harvey Oswald leaves the Depository, forgetting about his blue jacket which will be found days later in the first floor lunchroom.

Lee Harvey Oswald flees the scene knowing that he soon will be a marked man. He travels to his rooming house, changes the slacks and the shirt, and takes his gun with him when leaving the house in haste.

He goes to the Texas Theatre, and appears to be searching for someone as he sits next to each cinema visitors and moves to a next visitor.

Lee Harvey Oswald’s behaviour reveals that he had a foreknowledge of some clandestine operation in which he played some part, however, the operation was not presented to him as an assassination operation.

We can only speculate how and by whom was the operation presented to Lee Harvey Oswald. However, Lee Harvey Oswald did not blow a whistle right away and clearly had serious reasons to continue playing his part. And he did play his part: he went to the Texas Theatre, he was searching for a contact person in the theatre, he did not reveal identities of the conspirators (only indirectly by saying he was a patsy), he tried to contact a lawyer known for defending the communists, and he called for legal assistance. This behaviour suggests that Lee Harvey Oswald was still playing his role of a communist and pro-Castro activist which he had played in summer 1963 in New Orleans and during his trip to Mexico City in September and early October 1963.

Connecting all these dots gives the following: Lee Harvey Oswald was lured to assisting in a  mock assassination attempt (a similar event to the General Walker shooting) in which he would initially serve as a communist and a pro-Castro agent. His work for the FPCC and his contacts with the Soviet embassy (including the letter to the Soviet embassy dated November 😎 would be the proofs of involvements of foreign powers. This mock assassination attempt would be used to thwart any peace talks both with Russia and Cuba, and possibly to trigger an immediate retaliation against Cuba. Lee Harvey Oswald would be linked with the assassination attempt by the rifle which would first be connected with A.J. Hiddel and later on to Lee Harvey Oswald. Some compromising photographs showing him with the rifle and with some leftist newspapers would be prepared to strengthen his motives.

 Lee Harvey Oswald received the following guarantees: 1. He would meet a contact in the Texas Theatre and would be frisked from the country. As he knew he would be away for a long time and may never return, he left his wedding ring and money to Marina. 2. The money order for the rifle purchase would be flawed, and a proper investigation would not be able to prove a purchasing operation in a court trial. 3. He would briefly occur outside the building where he would be spotted by witnesses, photographed or filmed. He was not supposed to stress his whereabouts too soon before the political or military benefits would be collected by the conspirators. 4. Lee Harvey Oswald knew that all the “so-called evidence” would be refuted in a court trial: the photographs bore signs of fakery and Lee knew that they could be refuted; the rifle was not purchased by him and there was no way to prove it as the money order was not stamped; he could not be on the sixth floor because he was standing in the doorway, in the shadow, and would be filmed or seen by people. 5. Marina and children would be taken care of generously in case he would not be able to come back clean or even die.

Once Lee Harvey Oswald realised that a mock shooting changed to the killing (and the first moment he learned could easily be the arrival of Gloria Calvery to the Depository), he continued his assignment knowing that the safety latches and plausible denials were still in place. However, he felt threatened and isolated, especially after his arrest which was the second deviation from the plan. He might have also fear for lives of his family. Unless killed, Lee Harvey Oswald would have been able to clear his name and reveal the identities of those who lured him into the case.

To come back to the main point: Why was Lee Harvey Oswald outside the building in the doorway of Depository building? Because it was a safety latch and an opportunity for a plausible denial. His presence in the doorway was not random but planned. However, he still continued playing his part after assassination which entailed not showing the proofs of his innocence right away. Lee was confident he would be able to do it when the right time would come. He might well be also under a threat whereby the lives of his family would be under the risk if he blew the whistle right away.

8 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Andrej, I don't agree with everything you say, but this last post is impressive and I think these past few weeks you have shown some great work.

Thank you for sharing these!

Hello Bart:

there is a long way ahead still in proving (or not) that Prayer man was Lee Harvey Oswald.  Thanks for sharing your measurements of the Depository doorway back then, which was a big boost and help in this effort.

9 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

The results do not CONCLUSIVELY make Prayer Man Lee Harvey Oswald. But they certainly make the possibility of Prayer Man being Oswald a lot more likely.

I like your work, Andrej.

Thanks, Mark. One cannot be careful enough in drawing any conclusions, I agree. And thanks for your kind words.

One more attempt to achieve the optimal body proportions for Prayer Man. This time, I have abandoned Poser 11.1 recommendations and turned to the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald taken during his arrest by the New Orleans police in July, 1963. The right picture shows Lee Harvey Oswald from a rare frontal view. I have added lights to this picture to be able to see better his inseam and his knees. The left panel is the adjusted Poser mannequin named James. It is possible to adjust body proportions interactively and so I took the default James with proportions of an average man and adjusted them to fit Lee Harvey Oswald's body. Interestingly, Lee Harvey Oswald has long arms, I had to extend them by 10% compared to a standard male figure. The horizontal lines cross both figures at homologous body parts. Notably, the inseams in both figure, but also the waist and knees, are at the same levels in both figures.

In the next, the mannequin with body posture of Lee Harvey Oswald was adjusted to match Prayer Man's posture in Darnell, and the resulting figure was overlaid onto Darnell's Prayer Man with blending coefficients 0, 20, 40 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 95 and 100%. A 100% overlay means the original Darnell picture with no traces of Poser mannequin. The two red lines indicate the edges of the top landing and the second step.

The result exceeded any expectations. The overlay appears natural. Thus, it stroke my mind: if the fit of Poser mannequin is better when it has the body proportions of Lee Harvey Oswald than the body proportions of an average man, does it not say that Prayer Man was Lee Harvey Oswald? I use to watch these overlays for couple days before I export into Sketchup for the final fit. If anyone would have a suggestion what could be tweaked in Poser mannequin, please let me know. 

6 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

You're trying to fit a straight oversized leg in a round hole here

The leg-to-body ratio in the mannequin I showed for the overlay study (and which I am not transporting into Sketchup) is 47% which is the middle of the normal range 45-50%. Of course, people can and do stand this way if they wish so. Please try it yourself. It would be actually unpleasant to stand with both legs straight and on the top landing as shown in my recent post because the person on the top landing would have to bend considerably towards his right in order to have his head aligned with the vertical pole of the aluminum door frame. 

However, you apparently did not spot the differences between the two postures which make your top landing-both legs straight possibility very unlikely.

Are you now a new Saruman?

In the next, I have overlayed both Prayer Men onto Darnell still with 30%, 50%, 70%, 80% and 90% blending. The top row is the solution with a tall Prayer Man, and the bottom row shows the same for a short Prayer Man. The overlays of 50% and 70% (the second and third columns from the left) are perhaps the most informative as to the preference of each solution. Obviously, the short Prayer Man cannot account for the left thigh which is visible in the tall Prayer Man solution but not in the short Prayer Man solution.  Please note the angle of the right forearm. Since the short Prayer Man has shorter arms than the tall Prayer Man, he can have his right hand overlapped with the white blob but at the cost of having his forearm relatively horizontal compared to the tall Prayer Man. The tall Prayer Man reaches the white blob from a bottom-up angle. Of course, the short Prayer Man, since he has his elbow-to-elbow distance short, will aslo show a white, unexplained spot at the elbow area. In contrast, the tall Prayer Man's elbow fills Darnell' Prayer Man's elbow just fine.

Here is a summary of the points which favor the tall Prayer Man standing with his right foot on the second step: 1. The right elbow of short Prayer Man cannot fill the Darnell Prayer Man's elbow because a short person has also shorter arms than a tall person. 2. The right forearm in the tall Prayer Man has the correct angle matching Darnell's Prayer Man, unlike the short Prayer Man's forearm. The short Prayer Man has his forearm flat because of a shorter humerus compared to a tall Prayer Man. Thus, a short Prayer man can have his right hand overlapped with the light colored spot, however, this is achieved from a comparatively more horizontal direction. 3. The left thigh and knee of the short and upright standing Prayer Man cannot explain Prayer Man's left thigh in Darnell.

I can understand some reservation to my suggestion that Prayer Man stood with his right feet on the second step. Maybe the leg posture was not the best I could do, however, I believe that this is the most plausible explanation of Prayer Man's location&posture and a much better one than having a tiny Prayer Man (woman) on the top landing. I have constructed a new version of Prayer Man's leg which appears more natural than the previous posture, however, it is up to forum members to be the judges. However, I have also set up a short Prayer Man and highlighted the problems which this solution entails.

First, the Darnell frame with both solutions. Each Prayer Man figure was prepared in Poser 11.1. It is not imported into Sketchup yet because this step is lengthy I am doing it only when I think that a pilot solution is finalised. The left-hand image is the Darnell doorway with a tall Prayer Man, and the right-hand image is the short Prayer Man in Darnell. 

Here are the detailed views of both solutions. First the one-foot-down solution. I have shortened both legs to perhaps a more natural leg-to-body ratio:

And the short Prayer Man solution:

Thomas:

I can have a look at the leg length problem in my next version of any work which will include Prayer Man.  People differ in the height of their inseam and my model appears to have the inseam high. I paid some attention to it, but in order to measure inseam height, one needs to measure besides the body length also the length of the inner leg from the sole of the foot to the perineum. This cannot be achieved from Lee Harvey Oswald photographs in which he wears loose pants, and in no case from Darnell still because it is blurred and does not show full legs. The leg-to-body ration varies from 45% to 50% in the population, and my model has a proportion which goes to the higher end of the range.

The exact posture of Prayer Man's legs is uncertain just because they cannot be seen reliably in any of the frames. So, I had to design a leg posture myself, and actually I have suggested two leg postures, one in 2016 and one more recently. I certainly can test another leg posture which may possibly appeal better to you. The Darnell model included 15 human figures and I spent time mostly with the new figures.

The location of Prayer Man with one foot down is determined not by his feet but by the relation of his figure to different landmarks in the doorway. These relationships dictate Prayer Man location, and there is just no wiggling room there. Prayer Man could not stand with both his feet on the top landing (in Darnell) because he would not fit the shape of Prayer Man body (being too tiny and having arms located higher compared to what is seen in Darnell) and more importantly, his right elbow would be too far from the edge of the red brick column. Of course, I have tested this variation in my pilot analyses, and will show it in the next work which will address Prayer Man's location and body height.

As per Mrs. Stanton=Prayer Man, I have explained already that there were two women on the top landing, Mrs. Stanton and Mrs. Sanders. I showed two new figures with body heights of females in another thread. One lady stood close to the glass door in the eastern part of the doorway, just as Mrs. Sanders said. The other lady was in the cluster of people comprising Mr. Shelley, Mr. Lovelady, Mr. Williams and Mrs. Sanders (further back). This is why a white spot corresponding to a partial head of Mrs. Stanton is seen between Mr. Lovelady and Mr. Shelley. Of course, it requires further analysis to check if this blob was indeed a part of the head. And this is what I am working on currently. I appreciate your interest in Prayer Man, however, I cannot follow and respond to your questions because I am working, as the time allows me, on a different problem. If my analysis confirms the presence of a human figure in Altgens6, it would be Mrs. Stanton. Both women appear in one and the same frame of Darnell in which also Prayer Man is seen. Therefore, I concluded that Prayer Man could not be Mrs. Stanton.

While I see no substantiation for your Prayer Man=Stanton hypothesis, I can live with it and do not feel urged to ask you questions - there would be no answers anyway.

So, again I have to excuse myself from responding to the same questions again and again in your new thread because it leads nowhere. I do not think you would change your mind, and I am not changing my mind either. Continuation of this discussion is futile. I will continue working on improving the 3D doorway scenes and you will continue questioning my work and my integrity. 

Thomas, enough is enough. However, it is a thread that reveals two so far unaccounted people on the doorway, and I see no reason to have this thread stalled or derailed with some funny Prayer Man ideas. I will resume posting on this thread with a completed analysis of Altgens6.

5 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

All I'm saying is that in both the Wiegman and the Darnell clips, if you were to draw a straight line from one of "Prayer Man's" shoulders to the other, you would see that that line is parallel with the plane of the landing, and that simple fact precludes your "Prayer Man's" standing with one foot on the landing and one foot on the top step in either Wiegman or Darnell.

Can you draw those lines for everyone to see?

59 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Because in both Wiegman and Darnell, "Prayer Man's" shoulders appear to be parallel with the plane of the landing.

No. Prayer Man is orientated differently in these two films. As per veracity of my reconstruction, please see the overlay of the 3D doorway and Darnell still in http:/thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com. The Prayer Man figure fits the modeled figure which could not be so if the model were wrong. 

Why do you again raise the Prayer Man issue in Darnell and Wiegman if this thread is not about this problem, and I asked you politely not do it and rather create your own thread to investigate the issue? 

8 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

To say it again in a slightly different way -- if you were to depict "Prayer Man" and the others as they appear in a Wiegman frame by using the new software and by using the same portal dimensions you used for the Darnell frame, it would show that Prayer Man couldn't have been standing the way he is in your graphic.

 

And here's another thing:  It looks to me as though Prayer Man is turned about 70 degrees farther to his left in Wiegman than he is in Couch-Darnell, and for the life of me I can't figure out how made that pivot on just one foot.

Of course, Prayer Man stands slightly differently in Wiegman and Darnell because these two films were taken tens of seconds apart. The question is not whether Prayer Man's left foot was exactly on the same spot in Wiegman and Darnell as we do not see the left leg anyway in any of these documents. The question is if Prayer Man in Wiegman was a person 5'9''' and standing on the second step (with one foot or two feet, it does not matter) which would exclude him to be a woman 5'2''. Here I am confident that Prayer Man was effectively standing on the second step and not on the top landing. I have not modelled Prayer Man in Wiegman using the realistic 3D model (available to me in October or early November last year) and therefore cannot say how exactly his legs were arranged. Actually, we may never know about his left foot because it is not visible in Wiegman and it may be possible that he had his left leg bent and his left foot resting on the top landing but also that he stood with both his feet on the second step. I can prepare two different solutions, one with his left foot on the top landing and one with both his feet on the second step and see if it is possible to prefer one of these two solutions over the other. However, I cannot do it now because I am still working on Altgens6 and see no reason to stop this project and move to Wiegman only because you ask questions. 

Without doing any 3D modelling, you can easily check Prayer Man's location in Wiegman yourself.  Please have a look at the distance between the edge of the red brick column and Prayer Man's right elbow. This short distance could not be achieved by having this person standing on the top landing. Sorry. When the time comes, I will present a full reconstruction of Wiegman, however, this observation alone discards the possibility that Prayer Man was standing on the top landing. 

I am a busy person and so I will excuse myself from responding to your constant flow of questions focused on Prayer Man and not on the human figures I showed in this thread. I wish to complete my analysis of Altgens6 first and will come back to you with Wiegman analysis in due time. I hope you will understand and accept what I am saying. If you would like to discuss Prayer Man in Wiegman, please do so in a different thread as this thread is not about Prayer Man in Wiegman. 

3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Assuming that the portal dimensions were the same for Darnell as they had been about 30 seconds earlier for Wiegman, why didn't you use the improved software program you used for your Darnell depiction to make a comparable depiction of Wiegman?

 

Because of the amount of work which is required to model each scene.

May I point out that this thread is not about depicting Prayer Man in Wiegman film. Please set up your own thread on the topic of your interest and present your view and some evidence. I have read through your games you play here.

As per Wiegman, think twice what you wish for because you may get it.

Please do not respond with another silly question and please do not respond at all unless you have anything substantial to say to the topic of this thread.