Andrej Stancak

Thanks, Robin. We still miss the other lady which I guess would be Pauline Sanders and you seem to think would be Mrs. Stanton. Let us see where to will it lead us. The short person may have been standing behind Bill Shelley, Mrs. Lovelady and Mrs. Sanders and very close to Mr. Buell Frazier during the shooting, and this is the reason for not seeing her in e.g. Wiegman film. She was too short and therefore hidden behind these people. Few tens of seconds later, she would move to the east part of the doorway to be able to view the area of Tripple Underpass, and this gave the chance to spot her. Of course, this is difficult to prove at this stage.

Mrs. Pauline Sanders and Mrs. Sarah Stanton are two unaccounted occupants of the Depository doorway. I have reviewed all frames of Darnell film carefully one more time, and came to a conclusion that one of the two ladies may have have been captured in Darnell film. The frame of interest is the 27th frame counted from the last frame. In my library, the filename is 20130908-003922. The human figure of interest is standing in the east part of the top landing, with the east pole of the middle door panel being just behind the person's head. Please find here the section of the doorway with two rectangles. The small, yellow rectangle zooms on the figure, and the large, orange rectangle shows the person in a slightly wider context. The person is a Causian and quite short (5'1'' or 5''), although further analysis is needed to estimate this person's body height more accurately. Since the person stands on the top landing and is short, it is conceivable that we actually see Mrs. Sarah Stanton whom Billy Lovelady described as a "heavyset short lady". The average body height of women born in 1922 (the birth year of Mrs. Stanton) in USA in early sixties was 63.2'' or 5'3.2''. Thus, the person seen in Darnell film is apparently smaller than the average woman in her forties, and would therefore fit with Lovelady's description of Mrs. Sarah Stanton.

Sandy: Kudos to both Thomas Graves and yourself then. From the two options, Shelley being already at the concrete island or still standing on the top landing, I would vote for the latter. The human figure next to Buell Frazier about at the centre of the top landing may be actually two people with the taller Shelley standing closer to the glass door. Of course, this is difficult if not impossible to prove.

Sandy: I think you made an important point with Billy Lovelady being still on steps in Darnell when he encounter Gloria Calvery. Previously, I thought the two men seen in Couch film would be Shelley and Lovelady, however, your work made me to change my mind. I am sure that Barry Ernest would be very pleased with your finding. Bill Shelley should not be far from the steps either. Did you find in any of Darnell's stills a man resembling Shelley and walking towards the grassy knoll ?

Paul: Oswald and Hemming would watch the motorcade at Dealey Plaza. How does this make Oswald a patsy? His rifle would be stashed somewhere, however, Oswald would be seen watching the motorcade, and maybe running towards the grassy knoll with other people. The next day, the FBI would associate the rifle with A. Hiddell. Where is Oswald the patsy in it? He would return with Gerry back to trolleys at Love Field airport. The real scenario as it occurred was also the planned scenario, it was not a result of random co-incidences. It required the presence of Oswald in the building from which shots rang out and where his rifle was found. It looks so obvious to me.

The money order to Klein Sporting Goods and subsequent bank transfer forms.

Paul: I agree that the conspirators needed to have Oswald's rifle and to stage the 6th-floor scene to point to Oswald. However, Oswald also needed to be in the building on the day of the assassination, basically to work there. If he worked e.g., at Love Field airport, which was the better-paid job offer suppressed by Ruth Paine, he would have an alibi for the time of the assassination. Would the "JFK Kill team" travel to Love Field airport and kill poor Oswald while he was moving pieces of luggage around the airport? When would they do it? Maybe after tracing the ownership of the rifle. However, that would lead to a non-existing A. Hiddell, not Oswald. How would they connect Hiddell with the Love Field worker Oswald? The hunt for Oswald started not because of knowing that the rifle was his own but because he was reported missing in a most suspicious roll-call which most likely never happened. Thus, the conspirators really needed both the rifle and Oswald in the building.

Jason: I did not write after April, I meant after Kennedy's assassination. It would be too late to fabricate evidence such as association with the rifle within 1 day.

Jason: I am not quoting Warren Commission report, or the FBI testimonies, however, I am interpreting the facts as they are known. For instance, the fact that Oswald received his rifle in March for which there was some evidence. I am aware of the problem with uncashed check for the rifle indicating that the purchase never happened. However, that partial evidence was made (or fabricated) back then, in February or March 1963. It was not possible to fabricate it later. There were few people who both took part in the killing the President, J.D. Tippit and Lee Oswald and in the cover-up. There were people who were blackmailed to take part in the cover-up. There were people who were simply ordered to assist in the cover-up, e.g. Hoover's agents. There were people who wanted to nail a Communist irrespective whether he committed any crime. And they were people who had some itching, however, preferred to fully collaborate in the cover-up to avoid a national and maybe international crisis.

Jason: I am amazed. It was certainly Oswald who was chosen to be patsy, and it was planned carefully ahead. Had patsy not been secured and the whole cover-up planned (including killing Oswald as soon as possible), the investigation would go in all possible directions and no stone would be left unturned. A patsy could not be a random person. There may have been alternative patsies in Dallas, however, this has not been proven as far as I know. A patsy needed to have a credible profile justifying his evil act, such as being a Communist. His rifle had to be staged, or at least made traceable to the patsy, and this could not have been done post factum. It had to be done months ahead. A patsy is a precious thing which must be treasured and honed to just before the bitter end. The assassination had to occur at Dealey Plaza, and in Dallas, Texas. There could have been other venue for assassination, however, such alternative venue would need exactly the same amount of preparation as Delay Plaza. It would include Oswald (or then some other patsy of equivalent profile) being employed at that other location. The locations of shooters, the timing, the escape routes, all had to be planned ahead. This was a well-planned operation. Only Dallas offered a collaboration of powerful local people (Dallas Police, Mayor Cabell, Crichton, and quite a few other people) who represented the prevailing anti-Kennedy, anti-integration, anti-communist and anti-Catholic mood in that city in 1963. Dallas in 1963 had a very low threshold for political and non-political violence. Dallas was No. 1 in the number of murders in 1963. In some schools, children cheered upon hearing about Kennedy's death. It was a nut country at that time.

Jason: there is a great deal of difference having the patsy on the grassy knoll and in the Depository. The pasty would simply not comply with going from e.g., Love Field airport where he could have worked, to Dealey Plaza with his rifle (or you would think the rifle would be staged by someone at a different point in time?). He would hardly go behind the stockade fence if he could watch the parade from a much better vantage point. The patsy is someone not knowing that he will be accused. In the situation portrait, Oswald behind the stockade fence would already be the conspirator. So, how you would convince Oswald to go to grassy knoll? In contrast, it was not necessary to convince Lee about anything while he was in the Depository. He worked in that building, and he was therefore always at the right place.

Thanks, Paul, for reading my comment and for adding yours. So, do you think that Oswald's presence in the Depository could be just a random event because the rifle itself was enough to frame him? Let us suppose that a rifle traceable to Lee Harvey Oswald would be found on the sixth floor, however, Oswald would work e.g., in the package division at Love Field airport. They find a rifle, they find Lee the next day or so. One thing is not clear to me: how would they make Oswald a patsy if Oswald would work at a distant place during the time of the assassination. How would they place him on the sixth floor of Depository? It was the rifle and the patsy himself who needed to be in the building, at least in my opinion. Let us find him a job in the Depository...

Jason: this is more of a general discussion about the right-wing forces being responsible for the assassination, and I would not like to drive it away to Ruth Paine and how Lee Oswald got the job in the Depository building. However, the example with Ruth Paine is actually useful. If one reads the testimonies of people involved (Paine, Truly, Mrs. Randle), a logical conclusion would be that all was natural, and none of these people had any evil motive. However, having Lee Oswald working in the building in November and to get him there several weeks ahead of the assassination was essential. Without Lee being in that building, there would not be any patsy. Without a patsy, a full investigation would be in place and continued until solving the case. The patsy needed to be sheep-dipped (New Orleans), kept as inconspicuous as possible during the weeks preceding the assassination, and placed at the right spot at the right time. Although the way how Lee Oswald came to get his job in the Depository looks natural and innocent, it just could not be innocent and one of the players (Truly, Mrs. Paine, Mrs. Randle, Frazier) worked according to a plan. That was my point. A good plotter would make it natural and innocent.

An interesting discussion. I think the assassination plot was elaborate. There were multiple shooters in Dealay Plaza, and an advance planning of a cover-up. This cannot be achieved by a handful of people. How did the plotters come together? First, there surely was no paper trail left which would document the plotter’s decisions and deals. Even after all JFK documents are released in about three-week time, it is unlikely that they would contain any decisive evidence of a plot. There is no such evidence because it never existed in the first place. So, how did the plotters succeed to put all together? The question is who and how would be invited to take part in the assassination plot. A person could be invited to the plot: 1. If he or she had an influence on some of the essential components of the plot, such as manipulating Lee Harvey Oswald, deciding about the motorcade route, knowing about his rifle, covering up physical evidence, or recruiting the shooters. 2. If the person had previous contacts with the chief plotters. Only people who talked together and had a history of financial, political or intelligence collaboration on a personal basis would be invited. Organising together the Bay of Pigs invasion or training anti-Castro Cubans, or having tampered together the election results are good examples of a collaboration justifying an invitation to the plot. A past collaboration resulted in unconditioned trust which was necessary for conducting the operation. It is therefore very important to untangle the deep personal connections between the potential plotters. Only those people having the right personal history could take part. 3. If a plotter having influence in a specific part of the plot was also able to cover up his steps on the fly. 4. None of the plotters did anything which s/he could not defend later based on the ground of a likely-looking and innocent statement, or by pointing to other people who in turn had pointed to still other people. The individual responsibility of a plotter was therefore impossible to trace, and his or her role often appeared senseless. In essence, the small but important plotters were innocent and later even believed it. The Umbrella man is a good example. Or, Mrs. Paine found a job for Lee Harvey Oswald in the Book Depository just five weeks prior to the assassination. However, Mrs. Paine claimed that she has gotten an echo from Mrs. Randle, who in turn learned from Buell Wesley Frazier. Buell was a nineteen year old boy who came to Dallas recently. Somehow, it evaporated here. 5. If a plotter was able to do as little as possible towards the final success of the operation, and could disappear soon enough and far enough to be able to escape any suspicion. George De Mohrenschildt is a good example. Mohrenschildt was overseeing Oswalds for about a year and left for Haiti after transferring Oswalds to Mrs. Ruth Paine. His role was to learn about Lee and Marina’s vulnerabilities and to incite Lee politically. De Mohrenschidt did not have any contacts with Lee Harvey Oswald after April 1963. After the assassination, the time elapsing between the assassination and his separation from Oswalds gave him good grounds for playing a role of not more than an interesting witness. 6. If there would be no paper trail allowing to prove later involvement of a particular person in the plot. The plotters did not need to communicate too much. If they did, it would be on a personal basis and by using coded phrases or allusions. This is a sample fiction conversation between an intermediate level plotter and someone in position to influence Kennedy’s programme in Dallas. “Would you agree that Johnson would be a better president than Kennedy? “Sure. I hate Catholics who will be going to ask the Pope what to do. He does not understand that Negros will spoil Texas forever. He makes us an easy prey to the Communists who are systematically encircling us. “It can happen.” “Can it?” “Yes, but only if good countrymen like yourself would help”. “Shoot.” “It is a minor but important thing. Kennedy’s luncheon meeting in November needs to take place in Trade Mart and nowhere else.” “I will see to it”. “Thanks. Forget we ever talked. No one will speak to you from now on. Just do your job and get him the best venue possible in Dallas”. 7. If plotters contributing to different and non-overlapping tasks would know nothing about each other. The FBI and the Police department showed a genuine animosity in the aftermath of the assassination. This was all right. Any signs of collusion between the two institutions would raise a great deal of suspicion of an institutional plot. A phone call from the White House to Captain Fritz asking him to stop the investigation, which Fritz obliged, is another good example. Thanks to the phone calls from Johnson’s aids, it looked that Fritz had stopped the investigation not because he wanted but because he was forced. To return the favor, Fritz would not say any details about his calls with the White House. The people just played some roles which did not make them culpable at all. I hope it makes some sense.

... 16. Jim Garrison discovered that Mayor of Dallas Earle Cabell's brother Charles Cabell has been a high CIA officer fired by President Kennedy.

Congratulations, Bart, on completion of this epic work. From my initial perusal I find it very useful because it contains maybe all available information about Oswald's interrogations and shows it systematically. I look forward to reading it.

George: I have commented on X-rays "therapy" delivered to Castro prior to injecting him with live cancer cells on September 10, 2016 in a thread devoted to Mrs. Baker. The dosage of X-rays would have to be by several orders higher than a dose we receive by undergoing a diagnostic X-ray. Further, in order to suppress the immune response against cells from a donor, massive X-rays would have to be repeated daily over few weeks. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The leukemia patients undergoing X-ray treatment to suppress the immune system before receiving bone marrow grafts need to be kept in completely sterile environment and any, even very minor, inflammation needs to be sorted out beforehand else they would die from sepsis developing from the small inflammation or infection. For instance, suspect teeth are extracted as a caries in one tooth could kill the patient before he or she would be able to receive the graft. Castro or one of his several doctors or his protecting detail would not allow such X-ray "treatment" for no good reason. There is one more issue with Mrs. Baker's bioweapon. The condition of transportation of live cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag for days is just ridiculous. Please note that the vaccine human receive e.g. to immunise then against tuberculosis contain fragments of dead cells, not live cells. Even so, the expiration date of each vaccine is carefully observed. After days of transportation in hot subtropic conditions and after some two more weeks spent with burning Castro with X-rays, the jars would contain a stinking soup which would indeed kill anyone by causing a systemic sepsis.

George: a cancer cell is a cell from our own body which starts to proliferate uncontrollably due to factors which are still poorly understood, however, an alteration of a genetic code in own cells (due to radiation, polution, smoking, genetic predispositions, ageing) is assumed. The trick is that cancer cells bypass body's own immune system because they are still recognised as own. A cancer cell developed in mice would still be a mouse cell. It would be completely inefficient in humans. A human body with normal immunity would immediately recognise (based on a molecule called major histocompatibility complex) that the injected cell is actually a foreign cell and would send all chemical and cell immune resources to kill the invader. I have been informed by colleagues from the cancer research department that there is only one case known in which cancer can be viewed as an infectious disease. It has been described in some specific breeds of dogs in New Zealand which can have cancer in their mouths, and this cancer can spread among those dogs after biting each other. There has been no case of dissemination of cancer based on contact with live cancer cells in humans. Injecting cancer cells from mice makes it quite clear. If you are uncertain about whether killing someone by injecting live cancer cells is possible and you do not trust my explanations, please consult someone with medical background, or visit some webpages commenting on the possibility of being infected with cancer.

Karl: Dr. Oschner had links with the CIA and some other institutions (INCA), however, this does not automatically guarantee the veracity of Mrs. Baker's story. Mrs. Baker claimed in her book that Dr. Oschner, Dr. Sherman, David Ferrie, Mrs. Baker and Lee Harvey Oswald worked on a bioweapon project which if successful would eliminate Castro and save Kennedy's life. The bioweapon was a dose of live cancer cells which needed to be injected into Castro's body which would have be weakened beforehand by X-rays. The New Orleans period was filled with a frantic effort of Mrs. Baker to deliver aggressive cancer cells, and with testing them on two prisoners brought to Jackson hospital from Angola prison. Unfortunately, all this elaborate story fails on a simple fact that cancer as such is not infectious. You read well: there cannot be a bioweapon utilising cancer cells as a method to kill a healthy person. Cancer is not infectious: if we care for a person having a lung cancer, we are not at risk of developing lung cancer. More specifically, our immune system can identify foreign cells and destroy them rapidly. Cancer cells, cultivated in mice by Mrs. Baker, would be recognised by Castro's body and destroyed. Therefore, Mrs. Baker invented the necessity of Catro being exposed to X-rays to weaken his immunity. However, the immunosuppression due to repeated and massive X-ray doses would certainly be recognised by Catro himself, his doctors, and his family. Or, would you think that Castro would voluntarily undergo X-rays on daily basis without any reason? With bioweapon gone, Mrs. Baker story lacks the ending. What remains is the information which could be learned from books as Jim and Kirk have pointed out. Dr. Oschner was involved in cancer research, e.g. he investigated factors promoting cancer, such as tobacco. I can figure out that this research would be of interest to the military, and he therefore might have been hooked up by the CIA.

Paul: what proof of Cabell's involvement do you expect? A confession? A letter signed by Cabell asking Chief Curry to get rid of Lee Harvey Oswald? The assassination plot went on using words of mouth, and even those were only semi-coded hints, and therefore there will be no hard proof. The proof would have been Lee Harvey Oswald himself who would be able to prove his innocence as President's assassin had he come to a trial, and the prosecutor would have to launch a proper investigation. Oswald did not make it thanks to the work of Dallas Police Department. It was Earle Cabell and the city manager Elgin Crull who insisted that Oswald would be paraded in front of tens of cameramen and photographers. That decision meant the difference of Oswald being alive and talking or dead and silenced. An essential intervention of Earle Cabell, would you agree?

Thanks, Chris, for pointing to Dulles-Cabell correspondence. This appears to be very relevant in the context of the new revelation of Cabell being a CIA asset.

Paul: I read about 80% of the >1000 page tome. I do not have the book in my hands at the moment since I am away from home, however, I remember checking his book some weeks ago as to what it would say about Earle Cabell, and there was practically zero information about Cabell in the entire book. I am involved in the assassination research for too a short time to be able to say authoritatively that CIA played no role in Kennedy's assassination, and that all was the doing of the local Dallas right-wingers led by General Walker. However, I cannot ignore the information which I learned during my study so far such as John Newman's work on CIA, Jim Garrison's epic fight for the truth (and indeed The Crossfire), Dick Russel's research on Oswald's involvement with the intelligence world conveyed by Richard Case Nagell, and I should not forget Peter Dale Scott and also LaFontaines' and Larry Hancock's books. It is difficult not to see that Oswald was manipulated for quite a while and eventually led to become a patsy. The new revelation of Earle Cabell being a CIA asset is unusually important. This is the "deep politics" for real: a person having strong links with powerful right-winger friends and being in position to manipulate the police department was also associated with the CIA on a basis of a written contract. He was able to send/receive calls from both the local law enforcement and the governmental intelligence circles.

Earle Cabell was a member of John Birch Society, a racist and ultra-conservative. He was also a member of the CIA-funded Texas Crusade for Freedom with such ultra-right figures in its rows as Ted Dealey, Harold Byrd, George De Morendschildt and other white Russian emigrés, e.g. Bouhe. His collaboration with the CIA may have had link to the Crusade for Freedom which was used to mask the CIA funding of the Free Europe Radio. In my opinion, Earle Cabell was in on the assassination as Jim Garrison had suspected. His role could have been to make sure that the motorcade leads through Elm Street (not necessarily changing the plans, the plans were properly laid down from the start), and to ensure a collaboration of the local law enforcement. Earle Cabell was a manager of the Texas Law Enforcement Foundation which in 1960 had John Connally as the president. Besides such right-wingers and Kennedy-haters as Ted Dealey, Gordon McLendon was also a member of the Texas Law Enforcement Foundation. McLendon was the owner of KLIF radio and other radio stations across the country. Jack Ruby admired McLendon, and he allegedly (according to Seth Kantor) had shouted out McLendon's name shortly after his arrest.

This story is both interesting and confusing. I let the Italian news article, quoted by Alberto in his first post on the topic, translated using Google Translate. The translation does not seem ideal, however, I get from it is that the Museum director had it that the rifle which was allegedly used to shoot the President from the sixth floor could fire both the magnetic (SMI) and the non-magnetic US. shells: "Our ammunition, in fact, was magnetic, while what was fatal to the American president no. Oswald that morning loaded the rifle with three bullets, two magnetic magnets (sic), and one US production. History wanted the decisive projectile to be the American one. " I am also confused about the timing and who was in possession of the rifle. The rifle was allegedly brought to Italy by some CIA agents, and it would be the period when the Warren Commission was already in session. However, the evidence, including photographs of rifles has been made right away after the act, and the rifle was in possession of the FBI from early on, and it maybe was only loaned to the Warren Commission for a particular day. How could that well-documented rifle be taken to Italy and changed for another rifle? When would this happen? Anyway, thanks to Alberto for posting this interesting find.

Mrs. Baker is a highly intelligent lady, and knows all aspects of the assassination case like only few know. However, this is not what is expected from a witness - a witness should not investigate his/her case as any of his/her statements may be adjusted to what is known. As Mrs. Baker is both bright and creative and knowledgeable, and since there are too many holes in Lee Harvey Oswald's time line, she would be able to fill it in a credible way with her person even if it were not the truth. It is not that hard, however, it requires a lot of thinking, preparation and time. However, there are parts of the story which have never been analysed properly and which cast doubt on the essence of the story. Lee and Judy were supposed to work on a bioweapon which Lee would transport to Mexico where he would meet a contact, a young Cuban doctor, who would in turn arrange injection of living cancer cells into Castro's body. To make sure that the cancer cells would kill Castro, Castro would have to go for X ray(s) to suppress his own immunity. Well, this is a complete hoax. Living cells cannot be transported in a jar in a shopping bag for days. Living cells either need to be frozen or kept in a controlled solution in which ion concentrations and temperature would be continuously monitored - this requires a lab. We cannot be injected cancer cell and die because those cells would be immediately recognised as coming from a foreign body (there is a marker called major histocompatibilty complex on every cell which tells whether the cell is own or foreign) and would be destroyed by recipient's own immune system. One can suppress the immune system by X-rays, however, each dose of such immunosuppressive X-ray would be about 10 times stronger than a standard diagnostic X-ray dose of radiation, and it would have to be repeated for quite many days. Would you believe that Castro's doctors would consent to it? Would Castro undergo such treatment without asking? At the end of the X-ray "therapy", Castro would be good to die without Judyth's injection anyway. Leukemia patients undergoing immunosuppression to receive bone marrow grafts are kept in ultra-protected environment because even such a minor infection as having a caries in one tooth would kill the patient.