Andrej Stancak

Of course, Prayer Man stands slightly differently in Wiegman and Darnell because these two films were taken tens of seconds apart. The question is not whether Prayer Man's left foot was exactly on the same spot in Wiegman and Darnell as we do not see the left leg anyway in any of these documents. The question is if Prayer Man in Wiegman was a person 5'9''' and standing on the second step (with one foot or two feet, it does not matter) which would exclude him to be a woman 5'2''. Here I am confident that Prayer Man was effectively standing on the second step and not on the top landing. I have not modelled Prayer Man in Wiegman using the realistic 3D model (available to me in October or early November last year) and therefore cannot say how exactly his legs were arranged. Actually, we may never know about his left foot because it is not visible in Wiegman and it may be possible that he had his left leg bent and his left foot resting on the top landing but also that he stood with both his feet on the second step. I can prepare two different solutions, one with his left foot on the top landing and one with both his feet on the second step and see if it is possible to prefer one of these two solutions over the other. However, I cannot do it now because I am still working on Altgens6 and see no reason to stop this project and move to Wiegman only because you ask questions. Without doing any 3D modelling, you can easily check Prayer Man's location in Wiegman yourself. Please have a look at the distance between the edge of the red brick column and Prayer Man's right elbow. This short distance could not be achieved by having this person standing on the top landing. Sorry. When the time comes, I will present a full reconstruction of Wiegman, however, this observation alone discards the possibility that Prayer Man was standing on the top landing. I am a busy person and so I will excuse myself from responding to your constant flow of questions focused on Prayer Man and not on the human figures I showed in this thread. I wish to complete my analysis of Altgens6 first and will come back to you with Wiegman analysis in due time. I hope you will understand and accept what I am saying. If you would like to discuss Prayer Man in Wiegman, please do so in a different thread as this thread is not about Prayer Man in Wiegman.

Because of the amount of work which is required to model each scene. May I point out that this thread is not about depicting Prayer Man in Wiegman film. Please set up your own thread on the topic of your interest and present your view and some evidence. I have read through your games you play here. As per Wiegman, think twice what you wish for because you may get it. Please do not respond with another silly question and please do not respond at all unless you have anything substantial to say to the topic of this thread.

No, it was not a big problem and the reconstructed location of Prayer Man in Wiegman was the same as in Darnell, only was Prayer Man turned slightly towards his right in Wiegman. The reason I did not post was that since the model back then was not based on realistic measurements of the doorway but rather on estimates and inferences, I could not be certain in my results. Also, the human mannequin representing Prayer Man was only very approximate, I could not control every joint and angle of the figure as required in this reconstruction. I decided therefore that the next stage will be started only if Prayer Man can be modelled using a human modelling program (Poser 11.1), and the doorway is accurate in all aspects to 1 cm and I was not interested in posting any results obtained with old methods any longer.

I did some reconstruction of Prayer Man in Wiegman about in 2016, however, at that point, I was determined not to post unless the 3D model would be based on realistic, measured dimensions of the doorway. I am currently doing a limited reconstruction of one Wiegman still to understand Billy Lovelady's posture, in particular, the position of his right shoulder and right arm - this obviously cannot be done using only Altgens6. My long-term plan is to complete the analysis of Altgens6, return to the reconstruction of Prayer Man's body height in Darnell (I surely will adjust the height of mannequin's inseam to match Lee Harvey Oswald's inseam), to reconstruct two Wiegman's stills (one with Prayer Man having arms in front of his chest and one with his right arm lifted), and maybe to do an animation on how the doorway scene was changing over the assassination period. I also hope to learn in the process when did Prayer Man occur at his spot in the western part of the doorway.

Tommy: thanks for all the questions. Your questions will be answered in the overall reconstruction of Altgens6 scene.

Buell Wesley Frazier, and I may be wrong, stood in front of the western door window in the shadow during the time when Altgens6 was taken. This is the reason for not seeing him in Altgens6. He remained at this spot during the period of Wiegman film and a faint contours of his figure can be seen at that spot in some of better stills. Mr. Frazier then moved towards the front of the top landing where we see him in Darnell. Mr. Frazier conferred in one of his interviews that he would not be visible in any of the pictures or films because he stood back there in the shadow. Of course, this is not what Mr. Frazier had told to the Warren Commission. However, this is not the first discrepancy between what he told the Warren Commission and what he toid in his interviews later on. What Mr. Frazier describes in his Warren Commission testimony was a badly recalled location in Darnell film - he was not on the step below the top landing but rather on the top landing in Darnell.

Bart is right in my opinion, the difference between what is Billy Lovelady's left shoulder and Bill Shelley's right shoulder/shirt is a bit smeared. However, what puzzles me and what took me already two weeks to figure out is Lovelady's right shoulder which looks unusually high relative to his left shoulder. However, it seems to be all right like this, people can lift their right shoulders during leaning like that. The figure below is a snippet of my analysis illustrating two solutions for Billy Lovelady's right shoulder. The purple line would be the course of his right shoulder which would be seen if he stood (leaned) naturally, and the green line is the line of his right shoulder which would be seen if he lifted his shoulder with some effort. Both shoulder locations are possible anatomically.

It is a known problem that the testimonies of the people in the doorway often do not have a proper time tag. However, Mrs. Stanton and Mrs. Sanders stood on the top platform of the doorway while the motorcade was passing the Depository building. The people in the doorway were changing their locations to optimise their views of the scene, some moved more, some less. It is therefore useful to speak about the locations of the Depository employees based on a particular film or photograph because this is the evidence. We do not have any evidence about the doorway scene in the instants in between the films, and it would therefore be a mere speculation to argue about what the people in the doorway could hear, whom they spoke to or where they stood unless there is a visual evidence to support such statement. The big problem for Prayer Man = Sarah Stanton hypothesis is that both unaccounted ladies can be seen in one single frame of Darnell film. One lady was short and stood close to the glass window in the eastern part of the doorway. She measured less than 5''. Her location is such that this lady could be seen neither in Altgens6 nor Wiegman film. The only document which could prove her presence in the doorway was one frame of Darnell film. Page 1 of this thread reveals her figure. Notably, she could be seen only because Mr. Molina stepped down one step and unblocked the view of Mrs. Sanders figure. The big problem is not this particular figure but the subsequent finding of another person standing behind Mr. Shelley's right shoulder. This person was taller than Mrs. Sanders, however, not tall enough to be a man. This person can be seen in one and the same frame of Darnell film at the spot close to a spot at which this person would be predicted based on the traces of her figure in Altgens6. So, both ladies can be seen standing on the top landing in one frame and this frame also shows - Prayer Man. Notably, Mrs. Stanton, the taller of the two ladies (she stands behind Mr. Lovelady in Altgens6 and behind Mr. Shelley in Darnell) stands where other witnesses would place her. To sum up, Prayer Man could not be Mrs. Stanton because the small portions of her figure can be seen in Altgens6 and Darnell's stills. Bart made a legitimate comment few months ago about a geometric impossibility of a person to stand behind Mr. Lovelady in Altgens6. This prompted a serious analysis on my part which is not finished yet. I will post the results when they are ready, and apologise for not being that quick as this forum members would like. However, there is no point to show imperfect or incomplete work. After all, Altgesn6 is a photograph of historic significance and deserves to be understood properly. Over the period of more than 54 years, too much of wrong assumptions and conclusions pertaining Altgens6 have been made, and there is no point adding one more flawed attempt. In the meantime, the identification of the two ladies in Darnell's still can be read here: http://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com

Sorry, Thomas, this ends my discussion with you on yet another thread.

Thomas: your post reveals that you are not able to realise how inappropriate your style of posting is. I understand that you conceded that Darnell's film proved that Prayer Man was Stanton because it depicted the exact moment of their conversation, and then you raise further questions. May I also ask a question? Why do you not try to answer your own questions with some research and evidence? I am not going to answer any of your questions which you yourself do not even try to answer.

Thomas: Please find below the transcript of the Sixth Floor Museum interview with Mr. Frazier. Where do you find the unequivocal timing information linking the scene which we see in Darnell with Mrs. Stanton? The timing is loose. The part of Darnell film in which the lady in dark headscarf is seen along with people at the western wall takes only 49 frames which corresponds to only 2.7 seconds of real time (assuming 18 frames/second). I have reconstructed Prayer Man's head orientation and where he appears to look at: he looks towards the Records building or into the Elm street between Daltex and Records. He did not turn to Mr. Frazier because we would see him from his profile. Mr. Frazier does not move at all, he is not turning towards Prayer Man. When two people talk, they look at each other: Prayer Man and Mr. Frazier do not. So, where do you find such certainty about Prayer Man being Mrs. Stanton from this information? And if you realise how shaky the grounds for your only "proof" of Mrs. Stanton being Prayer Man are, why are you continuously asking the same question again and again? The short duration of the scene (2.7 seconds) does not exclude the possibility that Mr. Frazier turned to Mrs. Stanton (he did not look straight as in Darnell to speak to Mrs. Stanton) just a second or two before Darnell started to film the doorway, or just one or two seconds after this 2.7 second interval of Darnell. We just do not know enough about this micro-timing to take it as a proof that Darnell depicted the moment when Mr. Frazier spoke to Mrs. Stanton. While I am pursuing the hypothesis that Prayer Man could be Lee Harvey Oswald, I am not bashing this hypothesis into people's head in an obtuse way. Instead, I work when the time allows me to develop this hypothesis. At this stage, it is necessary to reconstruct Altgens6 because the white blob I see and consider to be Mrs. Stanton's head has been disputed by Bart. This happened some two months ago. I did not flinch, I spend time and effort when my duties to my employer and my family allow it to show it in such a way that even Bart (yes, Bart was not convinced even if the presence of Mrs. Stanton where I am showing her would strongly play into Prayer Man cards). May I ask you to show something: some consistent work, a drawing, calculation, piece of text, anything which we can evaluate. Asking questions is not enough, answering the questions is what matters. Here is the transcript of the interview with Mr. Frazier: Mr. Fagin: In the chaos that followed the shooting, did you see Oswald at all?Mr. Frazier: I did. This was all... I do not know exactly how many minutes later, but the lady I was standing next to. Some of the people, Bill Shelley and Mr. Billy Lovelady, they went down towards the Triple Underpass because before they went down there, a lady come by, a woman came by, and she was crying and she said "Somebody has shot the President". And so we looked bewildered. And I turned to Sarah: she said "She said somebody shot the President", I said I doubt that's what she said. She said that she did say that. So we stood there for a few minutes, and, and I walked down to the first step, where Billy was standing down there, by myself so I looked around. And it was just total chaos there. And then from there I started to go down to see if I could find Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady, there was so much chaos down there. I said, well, I better go back to work, go back to the steps, so now, and I did, I walked back to the bottom of the steps, and then I walked out to the corner of the building right there where Houston comes up beside the building. And I was talking to someone, it was a lady, and I looked to my left, and come walking along the side of the Texas School Book building was Lee Oswald.

You have a good eye, Ron. I saw this picture few times before and did not spot that interesting fellow. My bet is that the man talking to Inspector Sawyer was Billy Lovelady , however, I can be wrong.

Ron: I do not know any details about Ronald Reagan gunshot injury to be able to comment. It is known that elderly people have much less sensitivity to the first (fast) pain than young adults, whereby the reactions to the later-occurring, slow pain is equal in both age groups. If Ronald Reagan was >65 years, he may under-react to the first impact. Cases when pain is ignored and injured people continue their activities, e.g. a war battle, are well known since WWI. This is related to phenomena such as stress-analgesia or, which is a different phenomenon, diffuse noxious inhibitory control. The latter phenomenon means basically suppression of one pain by another pain, however, this one was not the likely cause of the alleged absence of pain awareness in Ronald Reagan case. Again, I do not know enough about Reagan's shooting. It would be helpful to view a video recording of that incident. Reagan might have shown a reflex, motor response to pain at a short latency without being aware.

I do not know how much it helps, however, there is no way that there would be a "delayed" reaction to such a painful impact as a gunshot which Warren Commission tried to sell. In our pain research, we apply a laser beam to the back of participants' hands to elicit a moderate pain (5-6 on a scale from "no pain" (0) to "very strong pain (10)". The first cortical response caused by nociceptive sensors in the superficial layers of the skin comes at around 150-170 ms depending on how tall a person is. A motor response to a pain impact is first of reflex origin (a withdrawal or RIII reflex, it is mediated by the spinal cord), and only much later (>0.5 s) the conscious, behavioural adjustments occur. In the context of the present discussion, a painful impact caused by a bullet would occur 3 Z-frames before the first visible motor response by John Connally. Being distracted does not really change the latencies of pain responses. Figure 3 in the linked paper shows the first cortical responses at 158 ms and 175 ms occurring in primary somatosensory cortex and operculo-insular cortex, respectively. These initial components are not affected by the direction of attentional focus towards or away from the source of pain. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs10548-017-0613-8.pdf

David: thank you for sharing with us your invaluable insights. I am puzzled by the photograph showing the bronze casket being lifted up via rear port stairs. The casket with the body weighed 280 kg. The picture shows only four agents carrying the casket (with the body), and one of them holds the casket with one hand. My point is whether the agents were carrying the full weight of 280 kg or only 200 kg. Of course, I do not have any data or idea on how could President's body be missing at this stage, however, I am considering every option.

Thomas: You failed to provide any evidence that Prayer Man was Mrs. Stanton. There were only two ladies who stood on the top platform: Mrs. Stanton and Mrs. Sanders. The message which you clearly missed in my thread "Mrs. Sanders, Mrs. Stanton, where are you?" is that after 54 years, eventually, both ladies have been identified in Darnell film and Altgens6. The short lady stands close to the glass door in the eastern part of the doorway, and this person, due to small body height could only be a woman. From the two missing ladies, the short lady in the eastern corner was Mrs. Sanders. This person can only be seen in one of the last frames of Darnell because her figure was blocked by Mr. Molina for the most of Darnell. Only when Mr. Molina stepped down one step did the figure of Mrs. Sanders pop up. The other lady, Mrs. Stanton, was harder to identify because she stood in the cluster of people (Mr. Shelley, Mr. Lovelady, Mr. Williams). This lady changed her location from Altgens6 to Darnell, however, so did Mr. Lovelady and other people. I have not published any reconstruction of Altgens6 because it is not finished yet. Thus, the only location which I illustrated is the one when she stood already in the shadow (she was covered by shadow in Altgens6) and behind Mr. Shelley's right shoulder. This lady (about 5'3'' - 5'4'') was taller than the short lady. She stood in the shadow and only a part of her head is visible. This person may be shielding her eyes with her right arm, however, it is difficult to be certain. And now comes the problem for Prayer Man=Stanton theory. Both previously missing and now discovered ladies can be seen in one and the same frame in which also Prayer man can be seen. This excludes the possibility that Prayer Man was Mrs. Stanton because she is there about in the center of the doorway and not at the western wall. Here is a detailed view of Darnell frame 20130908-003922 which shows the original Darnell frame (top) and the processed images (middle, bottom). And maybe a better view of the face of the lady behind Mr. Shelley's right shoulder: It is only thanks to the 3D model that the white blob, largely covered by Mr. Shelley's head, can be decomposed into what belonged to him and what was not his. Just looking at the pictures does not help because the observer cannot have enough confidence in stating that there were actually two heads in the white blob. Thus, you are very wrong in saying that I base my reconstruction only on Mrs. Sander's statement, although her testimony strongly corroborates my observations which is always good. In contrast, you base your Stanton=Prayer Man theory only one statement by Mr. Frazier that he had spoken at one point, after Mr. Calvery reached the doorway, with Mrs. Stanton. However, the timing provided by Mr. Frazier is very vague. As I explained to you in my earlier post, they could speak just few seconds after Darnell stopped filming. As Mr. Frazier had to turn to speak to Mrs. Stanton (I am quoting you) implies that Mr. Frazier did not speak to Prayer Man - he did not need to turn to speak to Prayer Man, however, he needed to turn to speak to Mrs. Stanton. Unless you provide evidence that Prayer Man was a woman (5'2'') and that Prayer Man spoke to Mr. Frazier in Darnell, your theory has no substantiation at all. I think you know it and this is the reason for your continuous questioning of my work. You admit that you are doing in on behalf of a person who insulted not only the moderators of the Forum but also several Forum members including myself. Being dishonest and incompetent were the usual and actually minor insults I received from Sauron to whom you serve. Your sleazy request to post some graphics which you then would like to use to further discredit my work is unacceptable and very much the same which Sauron was doing while he was allowed to be in the company of true researchers in this Forum. This thread is an embarrassing example of a very disruptive and insulting style of posting. If you have an alternative theory of who Prayer Man was, please provide evidence. So far, you have not provided any evidence. This is my last post in this thread. You have challenged my work and I responded to all your queries. If you keep addressing me or my work in your current mode, I will put you on the "ignore" list.

Thanks, Michael. I am giving Thomas the last chance to show something, a result of his own thinking or a piece of original research. Then it is over as far as this thread is concerned. It cannot continue by Tommy constantly raising some would-be critical points which if I do not respond would hang on the Forum to prove that I failed to defend my work. A very unpleasant style, I can say.

Tommy: it is up to you to convince people that Prayer Man turned to Mr. Frazier and talked to him. I asked you, and now you return the question? This is a silly game. Again, please provide evidence that Prayer Man was talking to Mr. Frazier in Darnell. There is nothing wrong with the shadow in my model. The shadow is not determined by myself, it is the combination of the internal pieces of machinery of GoogleEarth and Sketchup which sets up the shadows based on the date and hour of the day. I have no control over the shadow other than setting the date and hour. The area of the left hand reflecting the sunlight appears to be smaller than that in that in the right hand. I can see a brighter spot where the left hand is suggesting that a small area of the left hand also reflected the sunlight, and this is represented in my model. Of note, pushing the left hand just 1/2 inch backward would eliminate this reflection.

Thomas: Mr. Frazier does not speak to Prayer Man in Darnell. Prayer Man does not look at Mr. Frazier. They both just stare without saying a word. Mr. Frazier, according to his interviews did talk to Mrs. Stanton, and indeed, Mrs. Stanton is not at the spot where she was in Altgens6. It is all in the timeline. Mr. Frazier could have talked to Mrs. Stanton who stood to his left just few seconds after Darnell stopped filming. Mrs. Calvery was still down there, and some word exchange with Mr. Lovelady could still continue. The testimonies are too vague to say when exactly did Mr. Frazier talk to Mrs. Stanton. Please note that Mrs. Stanton was indeed Mr. Frazier's closest neighbour in Darnell. Mr. Frazier could just turn towards his left to communicate with Mrs. Stanton. This could happen just 1 second after Darnell stopped filming. Would you please be able to indicate the frames in Darnell which show Mr. Frazier and Prayer Man talking to each other?

Tommy: you do not need to Laugh Out Loud. The Prayer Man's figure is tightly linked to initial Sean Murphy's reconstruction of Lee Harvey Oswald's movements which were later refined by Bart. In my understanding of their theory, Lee Harvey Oswald was briefly on the 2nd floor to buy his Coke, and was returning via the front stairs when the first shot rang out. He wanted to know what was the excitement all about, and he entered the doorway via semi-opened door. Mrs. Sanders stood to the right (east) of the middle glass door and he saw more space in the western part of the doorway. He squeezed in the narrow passageway between Mrs. Shelley&Mrs. Stanton and Mr. Frazier, and ended up there, where he was captured by Wiegman and Darnell cameras. Lee had a habit to place the weight of his body on his right foot which may explain he stepped on the second step and remained standing like that. However, he appears to be frozen and not orienting himself to the events which most people were following, namely the Tripple Underspass through which the motorcade has just disappeared. Only Prayer Man and Mr. Frazier appear frozen. All other occupants adjust their positions and views (Billy Lovelady being the champion) to get the most of the scene. So, there is something peculiar in Prayer Man behaviour which may also explain the frozen, one-foot-down-one-foot-up stance. Does it make sense to you? ----------------------------------- Now, to explain the problem with a small Prayer Man 5'2'' placed close to where "my" big 5'9'' Prayer Man is. The problem is with the arms of the small Prayer Man which would not reproduce the Darnell's Prayer Man. Please see here the analysis from my next article which has now been pushed aside by Altgens6. The figure below shows in (A) shows the tall and the short Prayer Man. The plane above their heads is to demonstrate that both men are of equal heights. The green line on the landing shows that both men were aligned relative to the camera. The height of the step is 7 1/4' as it is in the Depository doorway. You can see that the arms of the short Prayer Man are higher than the arms of the big Prayer Man. This is illustrated better in (B). The difference is 2'', which is enough to see a mismatch when overlaying with Darnell's still. Another problem consists in the elbow-to-elbow distance. A shorter Prayer Man will also have his elbows closer together which will be reflected in Darnell scene as having the right elbow farther away from the red brick column. In the figure below (A), the pink transparent box delineates the small Prayer Man. This box is then inputted on the large Prayer Man and the difference is shown in (B). The difference is about 1 inch on each side.

Thomas: Prayer Man, indeed, could stand the way I show with one foot on the second step and the other foot on the top landing. If you would review all Darnell frames carefully as I did you would find out that there is no frame showing Prayer Man's left foot with enough details allowing to decide about the exact position of his left foot. It was therefore up to me to figure out about his left foot. Two years ago, I suggested it could be twisted and the foot would rest on toes. In the more recent analysis, I had the left foot flat on the top landing. It could be both ways. What Darnell stills say is that the left leg was bent and it was not only the right hand which was illuminated with the sunlight but also the knuckles of Prayer Man's left hand and his left thigh. Please consider also the H-plane (the horizontal plane crossing Mr. Frazier's shoulder line) and the E-plane, the plane connecting Darnell's camera with Prayer Man's right Elbow. Those four planes define a bounding box in which Prayer Man could be (the antero-posterior dimension of the chest closing the box). Please consider this: it is not the same for Prayer Man's appearance to be a man 5'9'' and effectively standing on the second step or to be a person 5'2'' and standing one step higher (7''). In both cases, Prayer Man's head would touch the H-plane, however, the location of arms and the width of the body (including elbow-to-elbow width) would not be the same. The short Prayer Man would have his/her arms about 2 inches higher than Prayer Man 5'9'' standing with one foot on the second step. Please consider that a plausible model of Prayer Man needs to reproduce the relationships with the rest of doorway occupants. My model does it. If Prayer Man's location would be in error, you would see clear mismatches relative to Prayer Man's neighbours or doorway landmarks. There are none, therefore, I was able to overlay the whole 3D scene onto Darnell still. Since all figures including Prayer Man match the original Darnell still, how can Prayer Man's location be wrong? The quality of the model does not appear to you to be a strong argument at all. You give greater weight to your subjective and false views about how unpleasant the suggested posture is than to a solid 3D reconstruction in which all occupants match their originals. Again, you cannot achieve a match I show unless Prayer Man's location was correct. The time which Prayer Man spent in the one-foot-down posture was between 1 and 2 minutes. We do not see him at his location in Hughes (despite all efforts I was not able to detect a clear figure of Prayer Man in Hughes film), however, he is at his post in Wiegman and Darnell. We do not know how long did Prayer Man stay in the doorway. He could stay for several seconds after Darnell stopped filming and theoretically, he could leave the doorway before Office Baker entered the building. We just do not know. My point is that Prayer Man kept his posture for a very short period of time. Again, please try the posture by yourself as I did many times. It is a stable and comfortable stance which would not cause any problems holding for few minutes or longer. I am copying again one of my earlier comparisons of Poser11 manikin and Prayer Man in Darnell. Can you see any similarities? People differ in the height of their inseams. For instance, the musician in the right-hand side of the Rolling Stone picture posted in your last message has an unusually high inseam. I did not adjust the inseam of Prayer Man to look as in Darnell because I struggled to identify it reliably from the blurred images. After all, my blog article to which you refer was about Mrs. Sanders and Mrs. Stanton, not about Prayer Man. As I explained several times already, I will re-analyse Prayer Man's location with the new, realistic model of the doorway which I hope will clear your doubts.

Thomas: the effect of perspective on objects across the depth of the doorway in Darnell scene is about 1 inch. Thus, you cannot gain a reduction of the apparent body height of some 4 inches which you need to align with the height of Mr. Frazier's shoulder line as Prayer Man shows in Darnell (5''2''). If you push a person 5'6'' as close as possible to the western wall and glass door, you cannot achieve Prayer Man's head being crossed by the vertical pole of the door frame (as it is seen in Darnel). If you push a person, even your 5'6'' person, as far back as possible, you also move his right elbow farther away from the red brick column. Also, a person standing too much to the back ("few feet in a 3'9'' doorway is more than half of the depth of the doorway) would be at a location at which the shadow area is wide compared to the front edge of the top landing where the shadow line is closer to the western wall. Thus, having Prayer Man in the back portion of the doorway also means that his hands would be fully covered by shadow. This is not what I see in Darnell. It is easy to say what you can believe in and what not. However, we are researchers and we want to know with a reasonable degree of certainty the truth about who Prayer Man was. The body height is a crucial aspect of the story but it can only be solved if also Prayer Man's location is taken on board. The Prayer Man's body height and his location in the doorway are interconnected as time and space in the Universe. Fortunately, the problem of body height and location problem is solvable if all relevant aspects of Darnell scene are listed and a solution is designed which fits all ad-hoc criteria (constraints) which Darnell stills suggest. I am not interested in showing isolated, preliminary pictures, rather I wish to present a solid case addressing all aspects of Prayer Man's reconstruction. If you are convinced about your belief who Prayer Man was (a person 5'6''), please show your analyses, calculations, drawings, and conclusions. I am certainly very interested in studying your solution.

Gentlemen: I was challenged by Thomas to explain the reasons for placing Prayer Man at a specific point in the doorway and assuming a specific posture. I see you are not convinced. Please feel free to continue your debate by explaining how exactly and where Prayer Man stood using your research and data. I will outline my point again using the current, realistic 3D model when the times comes albeit in a different thread. Please read my first post to Thomas's challenge if you wish to understand the complexities of the problem and reasons for placing Prayer Man at a particular location in the doorway.

What film though? Prayer Man can be seen already in Wiegman film which was taken just seconds after the last shots. Any witnesses claiming to see an unknown person climbing up the steps during the shooting?