Pamela Brown

There is another aspect to Landis' story that needs to be addressed, and that is his timeline.  From what I am reading so far, Landis has zero knowledge of what happened to the limo at Parkland Hospital and when. I am waiting to read his book before chiming in on that...

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

They (the Cuban consulate employees Duran and Azcue) also were shown photos of Oswald and both said that the person they talked to in the consulate wasn't the same person.

In addition to saying that the man they talked to was blond, they said he was short. Oswald, at 5' 10", was not short.

Cuban intelligence came to the same conclusion.

Oswald may have been in Mexico City, but he didn't go to the Cuban consulate. Probably not the Russian embassy/consulate either.

 

With all due respect, I disagree. This seems like quibbling over things. In fact, at this point I would say that we each know where the other stands on the issue of description, so why not agree to disagree and move on?

The person who visited the embassies had valid documentation, or so they said.

The behavior of the person who visited the embassies is consistent with that of the Lee Oswald Mr Hosty encountered in Dallas.  

I haven't done a timeline yet of who said what about the Lee they say they saw, but initially boh the Cuban and Russian embassies claimed the person arrested for the murder of Tippit and JFK was the one they saw.  

And I think there is something bigger going on here that may be a reason for the JFK files not yet released.  We are supposed to quibble over minor items and thus be distracted from actually researching what happened to Lee Oswald in MC and why, and his Cuban and Russian connections.  

And I think there is someone behind the scenes in all this dynamite about MC who is being protected.  I could be wrong, but I think it may be RFK.

On 9/11/2023 at 4:47 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Both the people that the man (the Oswald imposter) talked to in the Cuban consulate said he had blond hair.

So what I'm saying has nothing to do with surveillance cameras.

 

(Though, as an aside, two of the guys on the surveillance photos also had blond hair.)

 

'Blonde' is relative.

6 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

There is lead article coverage on Drudge Report. Nothing on Fox News. I am not going to even bother checking CNN, NBC etc.

Game changer?

Sounds like a good idea for.a book...

53 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Hi Pamela. I think Oswald was growing impatient with getting nowhere with the Soviets or the Cubans for his transit visa. I can see Oswald getting agitated and frustrated about it, especially when Hosty brought up Mexico City. I'm sure Oswald was angry about that, confirming his belief the FBI was tailing him. 

He was. It is hard to imagine what Lee thought he was doing, expecting to get a visa for Cuba right away.  I can't imagine his frustration, knowing he had only a few days...

Lee was angry with Hosty before he even met him, so, yes, it all came out in the interview with Hosty on 11.22.63.  I think Mexico City was just the final straw...

I have considered Mr. Trump a candidate for assassination since Bob Dylan's RARW came out.  One of the songs, a 'key' song, has a double meaning that I think may refer to Trump.  IMO Bob uses his 'key' songs ('Key' in the name or lyrics) to alert his people to target someone and make their life miserable, and, if possible, do something to hasten their demise...

(In other words, a Murder Most Foul)...

The song is Key West...

The 'dual' lyrics are basically (1) raving about the virtues of Key West and (2) hearing about Pres McKinley's assassination on a radio in Key West and Pres Truman's visits to the summer white house in Key West.  

https://www.bobdylan.com/songs/key-west-philosopher-pirate/

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-mckinley-is-shot-while-roosevelt-is-traveling

https://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.org/

On 9/4/2023 at 3:47 PM, Steve Roe said:

The photo that was used on Oswald's Cuban Visa application was found in Oswald's possessions. They are one and the same (a copy). It was shown to Marina, and she didn't recognize it, but she recognized the tan pullover sweater.

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City. That would explain why the FBI could not find any local photo shops in Mexico City that remembered him taking pictures. Even though Duran told him where to go take a visa photo, most likely he went back to his room and submitted the photo in his possession for his application. The clothes Oswald wore at the Cuban Consulate did not match what he had on in the visa photo. 

The tan pullover sweater is CE 161 (FBI Q188). It was found at Beckley.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=544 

Oswald was in Mexico City, and there's plenty of evidence to back it up. 

Something else that intrigues me is the Russians' description of their experience with Lee, agitated, emotional, claiming the FBI was tracking him, and the Lee James Hosty experienced, who wrote a note complaining about the FBI contacting his wife, and who was agitated and emotional to the point of refusing to take Hosty's questions after he asked him about Mexico City...

On 9/5/2023 at 3:29 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

That answered my question. Thank you.

 

I am quite comfortable agreeing-to-disagree.

In fact, I spent an entire day with Ken Rahn some time ago, at the Minnesota State Fair, where we agreed on absolutely nothing but had a great time...

On 9/5/2023 at 5:46 PM, James DiEugenio said:

If Eddie weighed that in 1978 then he lost a lot of weight after.  I have met him on four occasions since and there is no way he is that weight.  

Secondly, about Nosenko saying Oswald was in Mexico City.  

In John Newman's book Uncovering Popov's Mole, he makes a good case that Nosenko was not a genuine defector.  That he was in fact sent over by the KGB.  As the KGB told Nagell, they needed to protect themselves from any suspicions about sinister connections with Oswald before the fact.

If that thesis is true then this explains why those three KGB officers did what they did with their Chekovian Oswald tale. 

Nice one David, Peter did not have to wait for long.

 

Nosenko may have considered himself a genuine defector while being set up by those above him.  

On 9/5/2023 at 3:24 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The man had blond hair.

 

There could also have been another entrance that did not have surveillance...

Just what we need...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/06/weather/hurricane-lee-potential-path-atlantic-climate/index.html

49 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Only the one from DURAN as posted above. 

Does this ring true for you Pamela?  Of the 1 or 2 places she sends people for visa photos SHE CAN'T REMEMBER? 

Would you supposed she'd send people miles away or within walking distance ?
Why would the WC not want to show DURAN the application w/photo in 1964?

CORNWELL - And what did you do with the photographs?
TIRADO - Stapled them.
CORNWELL - Stapled them?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - On top of the application.
TIRADO - Yes.

 

If the man in the application photo was not the man AZCUE or DURAN describe or testify to, how can photos of our Oswald - the man they say was NOT the man in MX - how can the application photos be of the man they saw?

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where he could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.
CORNWELL - All right. But at any rate you knew of some place at the time, mentioned one or two places to him?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - Correct?... Did you look at the photos when he brought them back, careful about to be sure that it was the same man who was standing in front of you?
TIRADO - Yes.

(DJ - again interesting they don't ask if the man on the application is the man who came to her desk.. just that the photo and the man matched.  

LOPEZ - Would you do me a favor and describe him for me now?
TIRADO - Yes.
LOPEZ - For example, let's start at the beginning. Was he tall, short?
TIRADO - Short.
LOPEZ - Short. Could you stand up for a minute, Gary?(Laughter.) Would you say he was as tall as Gary?
TIRADO - Yeah, more or less.
LOPEZ - Would you say he was taller than Gary?
TIRADO - No, I think just the same. He was about my size.
LOPEZ - About your height?
TIRADO - Yeah.
LOPEZ - Okay. And what's your height?
TIRADO - 160. I think 160 or 162.
LOPEZ - Was he skinny?
TIRADO - Yes. Skinny.  (DJ: I get the impression she misunderstood and is talking about herself here)
LOPEZ - Could you estimate how much he weighed?
TIRADO - About your weight, more or less.
LOPEZ - About my weight. We already went over...
TIRADO - He has stronger shoulders, perhaps, than yours.
LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothers, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Interesting in that they showed DURAN the application (with or without photo in unknown) and she still describes a man possibly wearing a suit, very short, and although she says skinny, a 5'4" man almost 200 lbs is not skinny.

When AZCUE says the man wasn't the Oswald Ruby killed...  is he being honest?
When LITAMIL/9 says he was never there?
When we have reports regarding where he actually was which the FBI stonewalled
 

 

No mention of a sweater. 

Sandy,

I don't think it's fair to suggest that any of us is "believing the WC."

I hope you will agree with me that weighing and evaluating evidence and then forming a hypothesis is what research is all about...

Right now, I am working on an hypothesis that Lee was in MC, and so were others who, for whatever reason, were impersonating him and possibly also tracking his movements.  

To say that Lee *couldn't* have been at the consulate because there is no photo seems to be jumping to a conclusion.  For example, Lee could have anticipated the possibility of a camera and pulled up a jacket collar or in some other way took action to avoid being photographed.

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

There were 2 applications, each with their own photo stapled to the top.  The image on the left is claimed to be of "the original" and shows no staples and is obviously the CC and not the original whereas the one on the right is the original (despite the WCR calling it the CC) and makes it hard to see how to identical applications could be so badly placed as to get all the CC writing in the wrong places.

Again... this is only a copy with the FBI never showing or sharing the original

Here is a photo of photos found in Oswald's possession including 2 more photos of the 4 supposedly taken for the applications.

And no one finds it suspect that Duran - whose job it is to help people get their visas and recommends a place for photos to be taken - cannot remember the name of the photographic shop she supposedly sent this man.  BS.

Also notice the photo used for the SSS/DoD cards including HIDELL at the upper right, with the place for the stamp already removed

 

 

 

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City.

Well, the plausible answer involves including the rest of the evidence and situation in your conclusions and don't simply accept a single event, alone on an island, as indicative of what occurred.  This is where Duran describes a very different man than our Oswald...  and since when is a shirt and tie "not wearing nice clothes"

I'd ask you - what makes you think the photo on the copies of the application was the photo of the same person who spoke with DURAN and was the original photo sent to Cuba when the WC would not show DURAN this application w/photo until 15 years later and both AZCUE and DURAN say it was a different man?

 

LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothes, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Lee was wearing a v neck sweater in these photos.

Is there a description of what he was wearing when he went to the Cuban embassy?

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

As the illustrious Robert Charles Dunne noted about that Nechiporenko additive with Oswald at the Soviet embassy, it was as if the Russians were recalling their great playwright Anton Chekov and decided to throw in a scene out of Uncle Vanya.

Does anyone really buy that story?  He has bandying about a handgun since he felt he was being pursued by the FBI?

If I recall correctly, these guys were set up with a deal from an American producer living in Russia.

Lee showed them the handgun, saying this is how he.had to protect himself from the likes of the FBI.  who had even contacted his wife.  

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

According to John Newman, Oswald had no passport type photos.  He left and came back in about an hour with them.  (Oswald and the CIA, pp. 356-57)

BTW, this is one of the things that made her suspicious about him.  That he was so unprepared to do what he said he wanted to do.  Which was to get an in transit visa through Cuba.

"Duran, however was suspicious because Oswald had not been sent by the American Communist Party, which had a deal with the Cuban Communist Party allowing approved Americans to get visas immediately." (ibid)

Lee could have gone back to his hotel to get the photos.

On 9/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Also, the FBI checked every passport photo shop in about a three mile radius

 

No one recalled Oswald.

Let's not fall prey to the fallacy of false alternatives...

He may have brought the photos with him...

And then we have the Nichiporenko book, "Passport to Assassination" which claims that the Lee Oswald who staged a dramatic scene at the Soviet Embassy was the same Lee whose photo they later saw after the assassination....

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

That's what I'm saying Pamela.  All of the calls were intercepted within the Soviet compound supposedly called from Duran's phone.

Lee Harvey Oswald himself probably visited the Cuban Consulate at least once since his application for a Cuban instransit visa bears his signature .

An examination of the production from the electronic surveillance of the Cuban diplomatic compound's telephones failed to reveal any telephone conversation that directly mentioned Oswald or information that  clearly and directly referred to him.

Page 83 of Part 3 talks of Ms. Tarasoff's recollection of an "Oswald " call which does not appear anywhere:
Ms. Tarasoff testified that the transcript that she remembered was approximately two pages long.328  She testified that the caller identified himself as Lee Oswald.  She was certain that the 10/1/63 10:45 a.m. conversation was not the one that she recalled.

I'd suggest you also reread part 7: Analysis.

Everything in there is a discussion of the CIA offered information.  The FBI's work, OCHOA and untold aspects of the case were never investigated by LOPEZ nor any info offered up by the CIA tour guides.

There was no investigation of the journey, none of the actual evidence outside of that provided by CIA was examined.

All the report really does is bring to light questions that were never adequately addressed for which we now have much better answers.  

 

I do agree that it looks as though the Lopez report cannot be treated as a credible source...

However, I am not at this point confident that they were intentionally clarifying issues, but possible just adding to the confusion that already exists...

I thought this would fit right in...

https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/tucker-carlson-is-saying-radical-left-is-planning-to-kill-donald-trump-speeding-toward-assassination/

1 minute ago, David Josephs said:

The problem is not with Lopez - but with the source of his information

Then are you saying we cannot trust the report?

18 hours ago, David Josephs said:

@James DiEugenio

Much like the cards in Helsinki, the signatures, while "consistent" with his handwriting, these two items are supposedly signed within seconds of each other.

CORNWELL - Was he required to sign the application?
TIRADO - He sighned it, yes.
CORNWELL - Did he sign one or both of them?
TIRADO - I think both, it has to be.
CORNWELL - Was there any requirement in the Consulate that he do it in any particular person's presence? Anyone have to watch him while he signed it?
TIRADO - I don't know, I mean I just don't remember.
CORNWELL - As a hypothetical, did Azcue have to watch people sign the applications?
TIRADO - No. He was in his office.
CORNWELL - So you could handle that all by yourself.
TIRADO - yes.
CORNWELL - Did he sign it in your presence?
TIRADO - Yes.

 

 

I've always liked to line CC docs up to see what was going on...  The Application on the left is also supposed to show staples in the photo holding it to that copy as you can see the staples at top and bottom of photo on the right.  The white image is the reversal of the left application.

Azcue claims the same man had come in previous to his application date by 1-2 days... which again conflicts with when Oswald would have been there based on the FBI bus trip.

 

The WC decides not to show DURAN a copy of this application.  She does not see it until 1978.  And both Azcue and Sylvia tell us the man was not the same as the one they encountered.

 

 

CORNWELL - Do you remember the date or dates upon which those three visits occurred?
TIRADO - No, I saw the application. You showed me the other day, and in the Warren Commission was September 27, but I didn't remember, of course, until I read it.
CORNWELL - All right. Do you have a recollection whether it was all on one day or on separate days.
TIRADO - The same day.

 

The above application was not in the WCR as far as I can see but was only introduced for the HSCA.  The provenance of the photos, where else they appear, what Marina said about them... are all suspect.  One wonders where the WC gets a larger, clearer UNSTAPLED version of the stapled to the application IDENTICAL version.  The 4 photos we have are terrible and not all the same by any means.

 

The below is from 104-10413-10268 the September LIENVOY Summary report where anything of significant interest is mentioned.  This report left MX Oct 8th and is signed by Scott.  Not a single mention of OSWALD or an American thru Oct 1st on that contemporaneously written summary report sent at the same time / same day as documents are sent stating Oswald was picked up on tape Sept 27, 28 and Oct 1st.

Even more damning is that during that exact time period a report was to be written about the effectiveness of these two programs... both of which completely missing the 27th and 28th communications while specifically monitoring them.

I am willing to say Oswald was in and out of MX at the LUNA - possibly.  But our man was elsewhere when the events at the 2 compounds were either staged or completely fabricated or a combination thereof.

 

I was simply quoting the Lopez report.

22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

David:

 

Please address Pam's issue with the visa, as you have done before.

A. FYI..."Pam" happens to be an alter-persona that was supposed to have been created through trauma based mind control.

My name is Pamela.

B. I was quoting from the Lopez report.  

It seems to me that Lopez and the report are tiptoeing through the tulips. They say one thing in one place and another somewhere else.  Here is an example where the report says that they cannot confirm (nor deny the possibility) that there was an imposter...

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/lopezrpt_2003/html/LopezRpt_0264a.htm

Their approach seems also somewhat ham-handed.  They say that Lee spoke good Russian, so anyone speaking broken Russian could not be Lee.  Well, suppose when agitated and under pressure, Lee spoke broken Russian.  Or suppose Lee hired someone to impersonate him (for reasons unknown).

In another place the report acknowledges that Lee himself must have come to the Cuban embassy at least once because he filled out and signed a visa with a signature consistent with his handwriting. But they also say that they cannot confirm that it was Lee who visited the Cuban embassy.  

For whatever reason, including the possibility that Lopez/Hardway were denied information that they needed or were instructed to keep things purposefully vague by powers unknown, it seems as though they were incapable of coming completely to grips with the mystery that is Lee Oswald and Mexico City.

On 8/18/2023 at 2:43 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

(Note: I disagree with Pamela's "explosive" characterization of Oswald's response. Hosty's interpretation of it was "agitated.")

 

Pamela,

The following exchange occurred before it was pointed out to Hosty that some of his testimony contradicted what he had told the WC. As I posted earlier, this is when they dropped the subject of Mexico City after Oswald asked Hosty how he knew about it.

Mr. Wallach. Do you recall what Oswald's answer was when he did calm down to the question of what he had been doing in Mexico City?

Mr. Hosty. He never answered it.

Mr. Wallach. He never answered it?

Mr. Hosty. No, sir.

Mr. Wallach. So he did not tell the interrogators whether or not he had been in Mexico City?

Mr. Hosty. Right.

Mr. Epstein. After you mentioned Mexico City to the police captain and he challenged you, and you said you didn't respond--

Mr. Hosty. I did not respond.

Mr. Epstein. He did not. And you did not respond?

Mr. Hosty. He asked me how I knew, and I did not respond.

Mr. Epstein. What happened then?

Mr. Hosty. Captain Fritz went on to another question.

 

Source:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1406#relPageId=29    (Page 30. Pages 25 to 37 have the full exchange.)

 

I'll stick to 'explosive' for now...

BTW, here is a definition of 'agitated'...

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/agitated

Mr, Hosty did not 'drop the subject'.  It is my understanding that Lee refused to answer any more of Hosty's questions after he asked Lee about Mexico City...