49 minutes ago, Kirk Ross said:

I think if the current set of protesters would change the demand from "defunding" to "demilitarization" they would get more broad spread support.

Totally agree.

 

Agreed.  And his calm, deliberate demeanor while he did it in the open makes it worse, IMO.  What could he have possibly been thinking?

FEDERAL BUREAU 0- commission Exhibit No . 1251 D , Dec . 7 - 1963 Mr . STEVE- GUTHRIE with -office at 820 Big Town, Mesquite, Texas, advisee that his name was formerly S . N . GUTHRIE but he had legally changed his name some years ago to STEVE GUTHRIE . Mr . GUTHRIE furnished the following information :

He was elected sheriff of Dallas County in July, 1946, and was to go into office in January, 1947 . He was an ex-policemen and had returned from the service a short time previous to his election . He served as sheriff of Dallas County in 1947 through 1948 . Shortly after his election in July, 1946, a man identified as PAUL ROLAND JONES,contacted him on a Dallas golf course and asked him how he would like to make some big money . He stated he told JONES he would be very interested . At that time, Dallas County was "wide open with prostitution and gambling and other vices running full steam and there were an average of 2 or 3 murders a month which looked like murders by gangs . JONES told GUTHRIE that between them they could make approximately $40,000 per month . This contact by JONES was made since he was spokesman for the "syndicate" out of Chicago and the 'Syndicate" was planning to move into Dallas and take over the vices .

There were approximately 25 "thugs" and hoodlums from Chicago in Dallas from time to time . GUTHRIE got in touch with Dallas Chief of Police HANSON, GEORGE BUTLER, a detective of the Dallas Police Department and the Texas Department of Public Safety to see if they could make bribery cases on the "thugs " who had planned to take over vice in Dallas .

With the assistance of these officers, they wired GUTHRIE's house for sound and made numerous recordings of conversations had in GUTHRIE's house with a number of hoodlums from Chicago . Included in the names was SONNY LABRIOLA and a LIPSKE . As a result of this investigation, a great number of records were made .

... unintelligible ... was a "small time peanut" with this group  were going to bribe GUTHRIE . RUBY'S name came up on numerous occasions, according to GUTHRIE, as being the person who would take over a very fabulous restaurant at Industrial and Commerce Streets in Dallas . The first floor of that building was to be a regular restaurant and the upper floor would be used for gambling . RUBY was to run this club . JACK RUBY never in person talked with GUTHRIE about this matter and, in fact, GUTHRIE and RUBY had no conversation during this investigation . However, according to GUTHRIE, RUBY's  name constantly came up as being the person who would run the restaurant and GUTHRIE said if the records can still be heard, RUBY's name will be heard on numerous occasions . Texas Department of Public Safety has one set of these records and "DUB" NAYLOR, then a Texas Ranger, conducted a great deal of the investigation in that case .

As a result of the investigation, PAUL ROLAND JONES was sentenced to a term of 3 to 5 years, according to GUTHRIE's memory, and ROMEO JACK KNAPPI was indicted by the grand jury . KNAPPI was believed to be related to JACK NETTI, well known Chicago hoodlum ; however, Dallas authorities were never able to get custody of KNAPPI .

GUTHRIE advised he has never heard a good thing about JACK RUBY to the best of his knowledge . He believes RUBY has operated some prostitution activities and other vices in his club since RUBY has been in Dallas . GUTHRIE further informed he has heard and believes it is fairly well known around Dallas that either mayor CABELL or City Manager CRULL ordered Chief of Police CURRY to "put on the show for TV" of transporting OSWALD from the City Jail to the County Jail. He said as a result of this, CABELL will not discharge CURRY since CURRY was acting under orders . COMMISSION EXHIBIT

3 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Seems he has lost the military. This by James Maddis

IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

 

 

Now THAT ( Mattis's editorial above ) is what America needs to read and hear from our highest leaders.

The most coherent and inspiring leadership commentary I have come across in all this nation dividing, traumatizing and exhausting and anxiety causing madness under Trump.

Mattis's assessment is powerfully and aggressively stark in it's across-the-board condemnation of Trump and his failed and dangerous leadership and even more remarkable coming from one of Trump's own early cabinet picks. A highest rank military man that at first I thought was just another blindly loyal Trump authoritarian rule follower and promoter.

It seems I was very wrong on this take of Mattis.

It seems like a sea change in many of our highest rungs of former high ranking military, intelligence and other government leader circles ( and many previously less Trump criticizing media editorial boards ) in just the last few days in how public they are going with their strongest condemnations and warnings about Trump and his abuse of power and our Constitutional foundation of individual rights and equal justice for all.

Trump's speeches and tweets are sounding more and more like the Philippine dictator Duterte's public warnings to protesters in his own country where he comes right out and tells them of the dire consequences in punishment if they dare to keep protesting.

Trump truly does seem "off the rails" even more now than his previous 3 years of super aggressive authoritarian actions and words.

I think the current wave of editorial condemnation and warnings from extremely  high areas of leadership we have not heard from until now is a sign that even they feel Trump's constitution line crossing must be acknowledged and addressed in the most serious way in the public realm.

Thank you General Mattis.

I hope your words of warning regards Trump are widely reported and published in every major area of our media and read and taken seriously by something more than a minority of our citizens.

I recently re-viewed an interview of Travis Walton.

His story has always intrigued me.

The other witnesses ( 6 or 7!) who reported they saw the craft and Walton being hit by a bolt of electricity from it were a low wage manual labor income hardscrabble group.

None of them ever mentioned being personally close to Walton as a social friend except Mike Rogers the tree crew boss. One member of the crew actually hated Walton enough to try to fall a tree down on him.

Yet, in all the decades since the incident, not ONE of these rough edged eye witnesses ( even Walton's most hating co-worker ) has ever changed their first day testimony as to what they saw regards the craft and Walton being hit and thrown and knocked out by this blue bolt of energy.

At least one ( and probably others ) of these witnesses were offered good amounts of cash to "confess" the Walton story as they described it, was made up, false, exaggerated, etc. Almost all of these low wage manual labor eye witness men were in dire need of money most of their later lives. Yet, none of them has ever taken any nor changed their stories. For 50 years?

That totally united integrity of standing by their story is impressive imo.

Walton was asked in this interview why the Government has not and never will never acknowledge his abduction story as true.

He responded with an agreeing defense of the Government doing so.

That they must keep their knowledge of ET activity and presence from the public so our enemies cannot learn of the advanced technology we have discovered and to keep social order.

It sounded to me like Walton has been briefed and brought into this explanation, probably by the government themselves.

It's the number of eyewitnesses to this craft and it's interaction with Walton and their lifelong adherence to their original statements about it despite great temptation to offer new debunking ones that impresses me most of the story's validity.

If true, it's highly intriguing to imagine little Dallas strip joint owner Jack Ruby flying to Castro controlled Cuba and actually being driven to the jail housing one of the top three most powerful Mafia Dons in the country ( Santos Trafficante) and sitting and talking to Trafficante personally.

And for some important reason other than giving him free passes to his club and sharing his meeting Rhonda Fleming at the Love Field airport having a club sandwich story.

Illegal activities in Dallas[edit]

There was evidence indicating Jack Ruby had been involved in the underworld activities of illegal gambling, narcotics, and prostitution.^[9]

A 1956 FBI report stated that their informant, Eileen Curry, reported that in January of that year, she moved to Dallas with her boyfriend, James Breen, after jumping bond on narcotics charges. Breen told her that he had made connections with a large narcotics setup operating between Texas, Mexico, and the East, and that "in some fashion, James got the okay to operate through Jack Ruby of Dallas."^[10]

Former Dallas County Sheriff Steve Guthrie told the FBI that he believed Ruby "operated some prostitution activities and other vices in his club" since living in Dallas.^[11]

Dallas disc jockey Kenneth Dowe testified that Ruby was known around the station for "procuring women for different people who came to town."^[12]

Trump is now defending his bible holding photo-op in front of the St. Johns church as justified by it's "symbolic" importance.

Obviously, whoever planned and ok'd this battle uniformed military troop presence photo-op in front of the Lincoln Memorial did this for the same psyop reason.

Same with the huge military helicopters flying over and very low above protesters.

Trump loves ordering displays of intimidating military power.

Remember the troop movement to the border photos when we were being invaded by the dangerous hordes of Central American poverty enemies?

Trump wanted a great exhibition of military power parade with tanks and jets that we hadn't seen since Cold War Soviet ones back during the cold war.

Trump also bolstered the White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis sentiment in the Charlottesville demonstrations by publicly stating "there are very fine people on both sides." No call to bring in the military to stop the violence there including murder though.

19 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

The fact that Mr. Hellyer was Minister of Defence for 4 years many  decades ago is irrelevant.

"There is a serious possibility that we are being visited and have been visited for many years by people from outer space, from other civilizations….This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation and not the subject of ‘rubishing’ by tabloid newspapers. – Lord Admiral Hill-Norton, Former Chief of Defence Staff, 5 Star Admiral of the Royal Navy, Chairman of the NATO Military Committee."

Mr. Heller acquired knowledge of UFO's and the Alien Presence during his tenure as Minister of Defence many decades ago . Such knowledge is as timely today and it was then. Knowledge does not have a shelf life and then expires on such and such a date.

Doug, thank you for the post. It begs the question of credibility rating credibility when someone of Hill-Norton's station and background shares Hellyer's own views.

K. Davies. I am impressed by the high station of your friend. However, also with all due respect, I disagree that Hellyer's 4+ years as Canada's Minister Of Defence back 40 years ago deflates his credibility versus someone in this same position later on.

I would ask you to ask your high station friend if he thinks the "Shag Harbor" Nova Scotia UFO incident was nothing more than just another case of mistaken identification and exaggerated reporting?   My guess is your friend will shrug and chuckle and say the Shag Harbor story isn't even worth contemplating and commenting on.

I always find any romanticizing of the Civil War perverse, even sickening.

40,000 men lined up against each other and told to just blow the hell out of each other.

10,000 - 15,000 dead bodies stacked on top of each other plus thousands of screaming in pain wounded by the end of the day.

For what?    

A small minority of wealthy land and slave owning Southerners organizing brainwashing campaigns to get the huge majority of non-wealthy Southern boys and men worked up with songs and uniforms and guns and flags and heroes enough to be willing to risk their lives fighting and killing their fellow Northern country boys and men ( almost all from the same working class and 2nd or 3rd generation European heritage ) ... to protect these rich men's interests?

Songs of new made up sentiments and brotherhood loyalties, sharp uniforms, colors, flags, fun marching to cheer leading drum beats, medals, field promotions, peach pies and pretty Southern belle girl friends and wives in waitin'?

What percentage of pre-war Southern white boys and men actually owned any land let alone an acre or two or three and could afford even one slave before the war?

Most were as poor or working class as Northern boys and young men.

But, tell them they must fight for the "honor" and "glory" of their now rich caring for the poor homeland South with pretty Southern Belles in waiting.

Get them singing new made up separate value and culture Southern patriotic songs with commitments to "live and DIE in Dixie":

3 hours ago, Ken Davies said:

I discussed the Paul Helleyer matter with a subsequent Canadian cabinet minister who has been a life long friend of mine, and was assured that Mr. Helleyer had no credibility whatsoever in regard to his alien visitor opinions. This was a similar scenario to when RFK asked whether "your guys did it" in such a way that he was assured that the answer was truthful. 

The odds would seem to favour intelligent life in the universe but there does not seem to be much on this planet these days.

 

No credibility?

5 years as Canada's "Minister Of Defence" does not give one credibility?

Hellyer was not:

• Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
• Secretary of State for the Provinces
• Minister of Public Works 
• Postmaster General
• Minister of Customs 
• Minister of Inland Revenue
• Secretary of State for Canada 
•  
• Hellyer was minister of the department that handled military and military threat matters. He had access to probably the most highest security sensitive reports in this specific area for 5 years.

Was your friend as highly placed as Hellyer and in this specific capacity?

Surely not.

Hellyer obviously was privy to at least some relevant information in his five years of heading this department that helped shape his views on the reality of the UFO/ET presence. Hellyer was Canada's Minister of Defence when the Shag Harbor underwater UFO incident happened in Nova Scotia. One must wonder what he must have been informed of regarding that most famous UFO event in Canadian history.

Imagine if our Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield had come out with a similar take on the UFO/ET subject as Hellyer's in his later civilian life?

His high position in this capacity would give him much credibility as I believe Hellyer's similar position should as well.

Jim, the dollar amounts you quote don't seem like significant or excessive profit amounts to me.

One can imagine how much money it takes to produce all the media and research projects that Greer's group has created over the years.

Technical people such as film and video production have to be paid. Equipment for such is expensive. How about travel and hotel accommodations for him and others in his group to attend meetings, press briefings, conferences etc.? 

And I am sure much more in legitimate expenses as well.

And Greer has a 4 children family as well. If he isn't doing medical work, he for sure has expenses like anyone else.

Even if Greer was paid $150,000 through his group for one year's work, that is about what police officers make here on the Coast of California with overtime.

And that is what it takes "in the least" to buy and afford payments on just a modest sized single family home here now.

It's probable that private outside monetary donations have been received by Greer throughout the years. But, this kind of funding can be unpredictable and up and down.

I wish you would watch the William Pawelec interview I recommended.

Pawelec only briefly discusses the UFO subject in the very beginning of the interview.

The rest of the interview he talks the evolution of human tracking technology to almost unbelievable levels and about his belief that there are agencies of power way beyond our elected ones and who have agendas that seem totally disconnected from the common good of America's citizens or the abiding of our Constitution.

Pawelec had this interview with Greer but only under the condition that it not be shown until after his death, which it was.

The man had no questionable motivations in revealing what he experienced and knew like making money, seeking attention, etc.

And if it was a dis-information piece, again, how effective would this be if it was only released after his death?

That is an important aspect of a decent amount of Greer's work imo.

His Sirius effort has produced highly credentialed witnesses who are sharing things beyond just the ET/UFO subjects,  such as hugely funded secret black budget government and agency projects and agendas.

Areas and agendas that one might very well consider with great concern in their non-elected yet hugely funded power, total lack of transparency and with no oversight.

I know it's not a JFK connected issue, but I think what Pawelec says is something you would still find interesting.

Doug, a commentor on the interview mentioned the other lady as Hubert Humphrey's wife Muriel which it was.

Really interesting life ( politically and personally ) for this average working person concerned woman.

She was the Vice Presidential First Lady as well as Minnesota's first female senator!

Kind of hard to totally dismiss Canada's former "Minister of Defence" Paul Hellyer out of hand imo.

What...did this extremely credentialed background and long term government position holder ( Canada's Minister Of Defence for 5 years ) just lose his rational mind the last 20 years?

Sure doesn't seem so if you view and listen to him in countless interviews all throughout this long period of time.

I now know about the "Unacknowledged" film.

Steven Greer production.

How many here have ever checked in on Greer's "Sirius Disclosure" series of filmed interviews of high career position and academic credentialed witnesses regards not just the UFO subject but many other so-called super secret black budget ones?

They are all available free on You Tube.

I have, and I find most of them not just fascinating ( if ominously so ) but believable in the context of the improbability that all these interviewees or the majority or even half of them are all making up their stories and/or part of some "false flag" disinformation campaign.

I can't say this scenario is flat out impossible.

Just more improbable imo after viewing and listening to most of them and contemplating what they are sharing in a common life experience and sense comparative analysis way.

I think even average intellect persons above the age of 50 and who have read, viewed, heard about or most importantly even personally been a real life part of all the true historical events of our lifetimes in every area of happenings, can tell whether something very extraordinary being shared with them is bogus or not to a reasonably logical and mentally healthy degree. 

If you haven't viewed any of the "Sirius Disclosure" interviews and are at least curious about viewing and listening to even a couple of them, I recommend three off the top of my pandemic hair cutting business shutdown neglected Albert Einstein wild white haired head.

Or same with "U.S.A.F. Lieutenant Robert Jacobs."

Just forgot my 3rd choice, but one will link you others and so many are really gripping.

Another You Tube video I recommend is an interview of one "Gerald Anderson by Stanton Friedman." 

George Will is really laying it out there now regards Donald Trump. His Washington Post editorial today is about as strongly critical of Trump as any we have seen.

That's a hopeful sign regards the MSM finally beginning to lessen their protection of Trump through downplaying.

Also, lots of public criticism of the latest New York Times watered down and mis-directed front page title reporting of Trump and his latest Rose Garden speech.

47 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

Hunt never repeated what he actually said to the original producers of the program.I know because I know the guy.

 

Who is this person you know Jim Di? And how do you know him?

If you wouldn't mind?

What film?

Can we view it here online?

59 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

No more stimulus checks, either.

I actually heard Trump say in a news briefing or TV interview two weeks ago after the house passed a 3 Trillion Dollar plan, that ... "I'm in no rush" to push through another stimulus package.

No rush?      NO RUSH?

When 50 to 100 million of America's citizens are stressed to levels they have never experienced before...especially financial?

Hey DT....the American people "are" in a massively stressed need rush...RIGHT NOW-BIG TIME!

Stock Market up today.

Investors feeling positive despite 3 months of unprecedented corporate profit losses, massive depression era unemployment numbers ( 40 million "registered" tens of millions more ineligible )  millions of small businesses shut down, consumer spending and confidence at record lows, oil and other commodities reeling beyond recession stress, 25% to 80% drop in auto sales with related drops of dependent industry including manufacturing, national travel, tourism and hospitality industry devastated, nationwide Covid-19 shutdown, cities - counties- states nationwide stressing with unprecedented tax revenue losses and laying off millions of personnel, nationwide civil unrest in dozens of major cities.

What national economic, political and social conditions would these investors consider worthy of feeling less confident?   An alien ET invasion?

The stock market rise in the last 2 months is so illogical it's crazy!

Just like everything else going on now in the country, under Trump's brilliant, wise and mature leadership.

All during Trump's single term in office America has been put through an emotion inflaming ringer to the point of almost daily anger, hate, mistrust, uncertainty, division, fear and exhaustion.

In many ways it's like a growing state of out-of-control conflict. To the point of traumatization.

I call it the "Trump Nightmare."

DEAR GOD!

And no big demonstrations on that quiet and well kept residential street?

Apparently a few stragglers maybe?

This women was simply standing in her front doorway or maybe just outside it and they fire a painful upon impact paint projectile at her and her son for doing so?

Noticed this family was wearing covid-19 protecting masks and white even.

Just flat out frightening!

This is truly police/military state stuff.

Scary threatening yelling at even home residents doing nothing more than catching this scene on their smart phones?

One has to wonder if this was what it was like when invading Nazis foot soldiers and their armored vehicles first stormed into residential areas of France, Holland, Poland etc.?

Trump would be fist and arm thrusting and shouting "RIGHT ON" if he saw this and praising these loud threat yelling and projectile firing military brigades to high heaven as our savior heroes!

His tweets would be even more authoritarian worked up excited than his crazy "vicious dogs" and "ominous weapons" that would do "more" than hurt you" one he sent out yesterday.

This video hopefully gets shown nationwide.

Aren't Trump times great ?!

I'm the least knowledgeable here about any of this deep research material but it is fascinating and important and I am reading it all in bits and pieces for my own informing.

I am only posting about a single point made by Jim Hargrove regards his "20 Indications The Oswald Project Was Run By The CIA" list. This specific subject has been one of particular interest for me. And that is Oswald's constant stressful poorest financial situation.

"15. LHO always seemed poor, at least until it was time to go “on assignment.”  For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations."

I have posted in the past my observations of and thoughts about just how poor Oswald and his family were most of the time after his return to the U.S. in 1962 until 11,22,1963.

I think it is one thing to believe paid assets would purposely not portray themselves as too well off relative to their cover job incomes, but in Oswald's case this deception apparently was so extreme it was ludicrous.

It went so far as to seriously endanger the physical, mental and marriage stress well being welfare of the Oswalds to the point of desperate dependency on others for basic needs such as shelter, food, clothing, medical help for Marina ( her teeth, pregnancy, battering injuries and even depression with suicidal thoughts at one point) plus transportation and moving needs, baby needs such as baby June having only an opened suitcase for a crib? And on and on.

Oswald had been humiliated time and time again by the White Russians having to help Marina in all these ways and I am sure the Paine's as well with their moving and shelter and even food help and being regulated in his visit time with Marina and their baby there.

And Oswald living in what...YMCAs and $8 a week rooms sharing toilets and bathrooms?

Oswald was a prideful person.  He wanted to blow when the DeMohrenchildts came to pick up Marina's belongings to get her into a safe and more providing living situation away from Oswald himself. Only DeMohrenschildt's intimidating physical prowess and stern warning to Oswald to step aside and not do anything kept Oswald from doing so.

Having to ask another poor person for free weekly rides to the Paines from work ( Frazier) and taking buses and walking everywhere right up until 11,22,1963 had to have been less than pride boosting for Oswald.

Getting only the lowest paying bottom rung jobs or even being on measly unemployment was just another aspect of Oswald's just above homeless existence that must have been eating him up inside.

Any intelligent 24 year old man who loves his wife and baby wants more than this hardscrabble existence.

With this in mind, how far can someone go in trying to hide income from some secret covert source? 

Oswald didn't even have enough money for at least some small expenses at times. He ran out of typing service money for his Russian life story after what...$10 or $12 dollars? He couldn't finish paying Dean Andrews for legal work on his Marine Discharge status work. Didn't he also walk away from the last days of rent due on his place in New Orleans when Marina and baby June left with Ruth Paine?

I know that Oswald was frugal to the point of extreme cheapness.

And during this incredibly financially stressed time for his family, he managed to buy guns, ammo, cameras, binoculars, Russian newspapers and go to local movie houses.

Plus he had enough to travel to and stay at hotels in Mexico City, bring Marina back a silver bracelet and he even had over $100 cash to leave Marina the night before 11/22/1963 ( and I think he may have given Marina small amounts of cash while she stayed at the Paines ) and he never pawned his wedding or Marine rings.

These are small but debatable contradictions to Oswald's extreme poverty situation I admit.

Still, Oswald could easily have saved $100 dollars from his Texas School Book Depository pay check after paying Earline Roberts such small weekly amounts in rent and only eating peanut butter and baloney sandwiches and milk for his meals. A single indulgence for Oswald may have been his Doctor Pepper soda bottle purchases from the TXSBD lunch room machine.

But the idea that in some or any way Oswald was ever compensated for any even part time peripheral agency asset work seems illogical imo due to the extremes of financial stress Oswald was willing to go through for himself and his young family the whole time he was back in the states from 1962.

Does anyone here who thinks Oswald was ever employed by any intelligent agencies have a more logical explanation as to why he lived so poorly if he was?

Or was occasional asset work income about as much as one would earn mowing a few lawns a week or cashing in bottles?

14 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Klobuchar is most certainly out. All sorts of baggage from her in relation to this mess. Biden must be so relieved he hadn't picked her yet.

Yes, it would have been a PR disaster if Biden had already picked Klobuchar and this happened which would shine a Hollywood movie premier light on her County Attorney role in many police brutality charge cases, which she almost always referred to grand jury over-view and which most always resulted in dismissals.

Even Klobuchar admits she was wrong in her handling of these cases. And now this issue has exploded and will be a hugely debated one from now until the election.

I hope she just quietly goes away.

If Klobuchar was the VP pick covert bots working for Trump and the Repubs would be flooding the internet from now to the election with anti-Klobuchar pieces, using her years of police abuse protecting to divide the black vote against her.

Remember when George McGovern's 1972 presidential election VP pick Thomas Eagleton (Senator from Missouri ) had to leave the ticket when his hospitalizations for depression became public? This was a huge blow to McGovern's campaign as he was accused of incompetency in choosing Eagleton without proper vetting.

Amy Klobuchar is in desperate damage control mode.

Making TV appearances with a prepared statement of how she has changed regards her tough on crime/pro police stance when she was county attorney of Hennepin County.

Somehow being elected to the Senate made her more aware of criminal suspects rights.

I think she was Biden's choice all along...but now both he and she must formulate a more liberal suspect rights image media plan to keep her in the VP race driver's seat.

Curious how fate moves it's heavy hand at the most unexpected times in politics and other areas of life in general.

Klobuchar may be out because of this nation inflaming incident in her home county and state.

Undercover infiltration of legitimate protests is a common tactic and has been utilized for decades.

Didn't the former Republican Governor of Wisconsin Scott Walker ( 2011 thru 2019 ) get caught discussing using them in some way to influence public opinion during his election runs?

Years ago I remember a public bus driver friend of mine revealing that even our small town police department actually planted undercover cops to hang out at our main downtown transit center. Made up to look like the more disheveled and drug using characters that mingled there.

I assumed they ( the PD ) thought this was one way of tracking drug use and sales and/or spotting any fugitives with warrants.

I was surprised that the city could afford such extra use of police effort and costs when it didn't seem that desperate of a problem here and the city is always mentioning budgetary problems and the need for more city taxes.

It just made me think that placing undercover agents is more common than the average person knows, even in small town America.

I am sure that all over the country agencies planted hundreds of these infiltrators during the "Occupy Wall Street" protests of 2011 to create mayhem, vandalism and leave messes, etc.

That social movement was really gaining sympathetic momentum nationwide when all of a sudden there was lots of violent vandalism and property damage occurring and being reported in the MSM. Yet, the organizers would constantly tell the media they were emphatically telling their fellow protesters that in no way should their protest actions be violent or physically damaging or police antagonizing.

Everybody knew that planted provocateurs were responsible for this movement destroying violence.

Seriously, Ruby's Carousel Club sounds like it was a crazy, swingin', unpredictably fun with laughably kitsch decor and cheap vaudeville acts kind of place.

Seems hundreds of people from every income level in that town who visited the place in it's heyday had their own favorite wild story to tell about what they witnessed there.

Seth Kantor himself mentioned writing about some of the crazy acts that Ruby conjured up such as the Dallas housewife by day - hot stripper by night, stripper who danced with snakes and a limbo dancer and contest etc.

And imagine rough edged, beefy and balding Jack Ruby himself MCing his low brow Ed Sullivan show type magic and memory, ventriloquists, stand up comedy and who knows what other side show acts including drunken audience participation ones like Jim Marrs took part in.

Sometimes one was even gifted with watching Ruby himself perform his own special act of violently grabbing unruly or disrespectful audience members and beating the crap out of them and then throwing them down the exit stairs! 

Crazy man...crazy!

On 5/27/2020 at 8:03 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I had to say Huh? reading the caption to a picture in Mr. Griggs book.  It's about stripper Kathy Kay teaching the twist to Jim Marrs.  Not that Jim Marrs I thought.

Yes that Jim Marrs.  Griggs showed him the picture and he confirmed it.  He was a student at the University of North Texas in Denton at the time.  I've never read about Marrs ever mentioning he'd been to the Carousel in his youth.  Interesting he had that close of a connection to such an important place in regards to the assassination aftermath, before it happened.

I wonder if he ever mentioned it to his students at UTA or other researchers.  Might he have remembered seeing Ruby there?  

I must admit, in my letting loose time in my early to mid-twenties if I had been in Dallas before and through 1963 ( I wasn't twenty until 1971 ) I would have checked out Jack Ruby's Carousel Club and probably the other strip joints in town as well.