Michael Clark

Why do I feel that we are being drawn into a Dallas/Texas-centric conspiracy, all-around? It's like we have back-up forces to Trejo's Walker/DPD-do-it myth showing-up.

Ron, will you please share your info on the Harlandale house?

To be sure, it is my opinion that LHO didn't kill JFK; and any inquiry into LHO is a inquiry to distraction. The phone call between the Paine's is just another facet of which I have an opinion. It does not bring us closer to those responsible;. We are just tagging sheep. Tagging sheep is, however, part of the process.

My Mcadams WC PDF's are fractured. There has to be a better source.

Larry, I challenge you to come up with something better (funnier) than my phone-guy who hit the jackpot! LOL Thanks Larry, I am looking foreword, as always, to what you come up with.

The Paine's were in contact with the Oswalds since the spring of 63. There is no reason to think that they were not being surveilled from that time on. There are CIA, FBI, Mob, Industrial, Police and who knows what other intelligence entities whom might have been involved in the tapping of that call. Mr. Carter''s pointing out that Irving police are named as the source doesn't mean anything; no disrespect to Mr. Carter; I assume he is passing on information, and that he is not married to the idea that it was necessarily Irving police who tapped the call. Keep in mind that the other end of the call was the Fort Worth Bell Helicopter facility where Michael Paine worked. It seems too convenient that Irving Police had a man who was assigned to the telephone company and this info was generated therefrom. Any agency or entity could have asked the Irving police for cover in this matter. Local PI's, extortionists, Mob, Confidential informants, as well as Government agencies could have had someone listening to all their calls, or have hopped on that line at anytime. Assuming that there is something fishy about that call being monitored at 1PM on 11-22 is assuming that there was no reason to have an eye on LHO, Marina or the Paine's before that time. I would be surprised if the mob, Bell Helicopter and all government agencies, including rogue elements were not tripping over themselves in manholes, on poles, in dusty phone-rooms with diverted pairs or at phone company buildings listening in all calls. To add a bit of humor, imagine a phone guy who was known to be "purchasable" , who just by serendipity, happened to have been approached by Jim Hosty, I. B. Hale, Howard, Hunt, Jack Ruby, H. L. Hunt, Holmes, Mrs. Paine, and and Mr. Paine,.. all individually paying one lucky phone-guy to tap that line. He would have collected 7 checks for one job, and no one should have been any-the-wiser. ha-ha! I am just trying to point-out that it could have been everyone,, everywhere, or anyone, anywhere that "ordered" it. It had to be brought to the WC records, so we have an Irving Police officer, assigned to fill-out the story. .

The Paine's were in contact with the Oswalds since the spring of 63. There is no reason to think that they were not being surveilled from that time on. There are CIA, FBI, Mob, Industrial, Police and who knows what other intelligence entities whom might have been involved. Mr. Carter''s pointing out that Irving police are named as the source doesn't mean anything, no disrespect to Mr. Carter; I assume he is passing on information, and that he is not married to the idea that it was necessarily Irving police who tapped the call. Keep in mind that the other end of the call was the Fort Worth Bell Helicopter facility where Michael Paine worked. It seems too convenient that Irving Police had a man who was assigned to the telephone company and this info was generated therefrom. Any agency or entity could have asked the Irving police for cover in this matter. Local PI's, extortionists, Mob, Confidential informants, as well as Government agencies could have had someone listening to all their calls, or have hopped on that line at anytime. Assuming that there is something fishy about that call being monitored at 1PM on 11-22 is assuming that there was no reason to have an eye on LHO, Marina or the Paine's before that time. I would be surprised if the mob, Bell Helicopter and all government agencies, including rogue elements were not tripping over themselves in manholes, on poles, in dusty phone-rooms with diverted pairs or at phone company buildings listening in on all of their calls. To add a bit of humor, imagine a phone guy who was known to be "purchasable" , who just by serendipity, happened to have been approached by Jim Hosty, I. B. Hale, Howard, Hunt, Jack Ruby, H. L. Hunt, Holmes, Mrs. Paine, and and Mr. Paine,.. all individually paying one lucky phone-guy to tap that line. He would have collected 7 checks for one job, and no one should have been any-the-wiser. ha-ha! I am just trying to point-out that it could have been everyone,, everywhere, or anyone, anywhere that "ordered" it. It had to be brought to the WC records, so we have an Irving Police officer, assigned to fill-out the story.

I figured I would quote Mr. Baldwin in hopes that he may still be receiving notifications when replies are mad to his posts. I have a couple questions for him if he responds.

That's very cool Sandy...

It looks like Dallas and Washington to me.

The testimony of Ruth Hyde Paine was taken at 9:15 a.m., on March 21, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., and Norman Redlich, assistant counsels of the President's Commission. Mr. JENNER - Let the record show that this is a continuation by deposition pursuant to leave granted by the Commission of Mrs. Paine's testimony before the Commission which we had concluded late in the day yesterday. -------------------------------------- Mr. JENNER - Now, I have, which I will mark only for identification, three file cases of correspondence of your themes or writings in college. You might be better able to describe what is in these boxes than I in the way of general summary. Would you do so? Mrs. PAINE - It also includes information helpful to me in recreation leadership, games, something of songs. It includes a list of the people to whom I sent birth announcements, things of that nature. Mr. JENNER - It covers a span of years going back to your college days? Mrs. PAINE - And a few papers prior to college. Mr. JENNER - I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457, 458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your handwriting? Mrs. PAINE - Yes. Mr. JENNER - And those pieces of correspondence which purport to be letters from your mother, your father, your brother, and your sister are likewise the originals of those letters? Mrs. PAINE - Yes. Mr. JENNER - And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances others are copies of letters that you dispatched? Mrs. PAINE - That is right. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. JENNER - Back on the record, please.We asked you yesterday if you loaned any money to Marina or to Lee Oswald, and your answer was in the negative. Mrs. PAINE - That is right. Mr. JENNER - We asked you if you had given any money to either of them, and your answer was in the negative, that is, cash. ......................

I would also assume that security groups at Bell Helicopter, folks like I. B. Hale, would have the capability to listen-in on and record their employees conversations.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

My selection was hasty. I am going to have to put together a selection of better research, for quick access, so they will be ready for Paul's ubuiquitous "Ruth "fluffs" butterflies"posts.

I am sceptical that there would be anything in those files that was not meant to be, or planned to be in those files. If Oswald was a witting intelligence operative, even he would not have kept that stuff around, unsecured.

Agreed.

...in order to remove the pre-text for a Cuban invasion. Since, in my view, there was a plan in-place to blame Pro-Castro Cubans for the assassination, manufactured evidence was in place to tie Oswald to Pro-Castro Cubans, in a conspiracy. Those files once held that evidence.

Thanks Larry.

This is the only WC testimony that I have regarding the Ruth-Michael "We both Know" call. The WC testimony of MP, that I have, does not provide a time for the call. AFAIK, Ruth is never asked. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, there has been a report that on November 23, 1963, there was a telephone call between a man and a woman, between the numbers of your residence and the number of your office, in which the man was reported to have said in words or substance, "We both know who is responsible for the assassination." Have you been asked about this before?Mr. PAINE - I had heard that--I didn't know it was associated with our numbers. I had heard a report that some telephone operator had listened in on a conversation somewhere, I don't know where it was. I thought it was some other part of the country.Mr. LIEBELER - Did you talk to your wife on the telephone at any time during Saturday, November 23, on the telephone?Mr. PAINE - I was in the police station again, and I think I called her from there.Mr. LIEBELER - Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?Mr. PAINE - And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no, so I did not.Mr. LIEBELER - You are positive in your recollection that you made no such remark?Mr. PAINE - Yes.

Hey Brian, this is an interesting tid-bit to me. Did you ever find any more verification for this?

Richard Nixon. There are several stories for his presence. I'll add one or more here.

When Julius Caesar was assassinated, Marcus Tulius Cicero, who was away from Rome for the occasion, wrote his friend, Senator and conspirator, Gaius Trebonius, saying "I wish that I could have been present for that glorious banquet; there would have been no leavings".By "leavings" Tully was not referring to sweet potato fries left uneaten, he was referring to Mark Anthony. Gaius Trebonius was opposed to killing Mark Anthony because, he argued, the action against Caesar was not a coup de ta, or a murder; it was an execution.Sorting-out that distinction is a very interesting argument, but requires an understanding of the Republican Roman "constitution", as it was. The salient point is that (almost) everyone had a hand in the matter. There are several accounts as to how many wounds Caesar received, and there are more participants than wounds, by most accounts. .It's fair, here, to offer JFK's statement that Success has a hundred fathers, while Failure is an orphan. That there happened to be many, many, "fathers" near Dealy Plaza, roundabout 11-22-63 is a subject that is often encountered during our investigation and dialectic.There was careful attention paid to a sheep-dipping operation for the Dallas hit; and it went to the top, and everywhere else. In this case, it should be called a "wolf-dipping"..

I was going off-topic in a couple of other threads, so I made a new one... "I am thinking the phone call was a sheep-dipping operation. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, including Nixon and Rabin, went through the process. The Warren report did not even have to support it, or be factual about that call; the message was sent, even Michael was given the "out" (that he was not at work on Saturday to take or place that call). The details could always be changed. The "Confidential informant" who spread the rumor which the WC saw-fit to ask-about, in-session, and his correct statement, could always turn-up later." " Imagine later testimony, or an interrogation, if things rolled-out in a very different way. What's Michal or Ruth going th say;...."Insert vastly more incriminating statement that actually happened, and for which there is a recorded phone call or multiple witnesses" here.?"