Michael Clark

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

I wonder if his "unfinished/unpublished book . . . revealing more than others wanted him to reveal" was on the verge of being finished/published when Liebeler's small airplane took that strange nosedive into Lake Winnipesaukee in 2002.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/09/29/wesley-liebeler-71/62a51dec-2e61-48e1-b881-c7050283aba7/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b1229c3bebd9

NTSB accident report

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20021004X05281&ntsbno=NYC02FA196&akey=1

4 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

So a question for those who have posted here more frequently - if I see an older thread which deals with a subject of interest, should I piggyback a new question onto that thread?  Or would it be more useful to start a new thread and add the link to the older thread for reference?   

That depends, and there is no affirmed practice. I will use an existing thread unless the other thread has descended into chaos or has otherwise become undesirable. If there are are multiple threads on a subject I have done round-up threads, with one thread that lists all the related ones, and also link those threads to the round-up thread. For example:

Using an existing thread shows that you have done at least some research, and implies a base of exposure so one can know where to start when answering or assisting you.

4 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

To those who have studied the DPD in the early 60's, how many of them might have also been members of the John Birch Society?   

Hi Stephanie, I have heard numbers offered for KKK, JBS and minutemen memberships for the DPD, but the sources here seemed unreliable, or at least not well researched. An exception is @Ernie Lazar, who has shared tons of his own research and documents..

 

On 3/1/2019 at 4:19 PM, Ernie Lazar said:

Thanks Robert.  One of the reasons why JBS members and supporters often seem to win online debates is because very few people have detailed FACTUAL knowledge about JBS history.  As a result, cartoon caricatures about the JBS and its positions often are substituted for rational and factual debate.

Because much of their actual history is opaque, Birchers often get away with the most incredible falsehoods about their own history as well as denying the numerous associations or links between the JBS and very toxic and disreputable individuals and organizations. 

My chapter on "Racism and the John Birch Society" is a 3-part discussion (totaling 189 pages) which includes a very detailed chronology of those links and associations.  That appears in the third (and final) section of that chapter -- and I don't think anybody has ever been able to compile such an extensive database.  And I only scratched the surface!

I hope that my FBI files collection which has now been accessed by over one million people will help future scholars, students, researchers, and journalists document our history. 

I am currently working on a new Report which is entitled "Trumpism is NOT New" -- which will summarize the arguments used by the extreme right and white nationalists and assorted bigots during the 1940's thru 1980's which mimic the current statements and themes associated with Donald Trump.  Thanks again for your support!  [BTW--the next batch of FBI files to be uploaded into my Internet Archive webpage should be available in late in March or early April.]

 

This transcript from the posted video should appear in this thread as well.

Thanks to @Denny Zartman

 

 

Len Osanic – Mr. Coley has indicated that he has some first-hand knowledge, and you were interviewed before and somehow they got to tell only half the story.

Jerry Coley - Yes, sir.

Osanic – So I’d love to hear the whole thing.

 Coley – Okay. I’ll recount it as best I can, that was what, like… I was in the advertising department. I usually got there about 8 o’clock. We had a little cafeteria, and on Friday I would go down and my cohort that handles food and drug advertising with me, Don Campbell, he and I usually would meet for coffee. And on Fridays, usually Jack Ruby would come in to place his weekend advertising, and he would join us for coffee, and that Friday morning he did, on November the 22, about 8 o clock or so. 

When I got there, he was in the cafeteria with Don Campbell, they were having coffee. I sat down with them, and Jack was his usual self. He liked to talk about his strippers and how tough he was, and he flashed his brass knuckles that he had in his suit coat and bragged about toughness. But he usually came in and he placed his weekend advertising on Friday with our department for his strip joint there, along with another nightclub he owned, and he always paid in cash, and he kept the money rolled up in his pocket, and, uh, he always bragged about the money he had and about the gun he carried under the front seat of his car, but, it was a normal morning. And then I left the coffee shop I guess and came on in to my office and left my office about 9 o’clock to go out and make my advertising calls.

I came back into the office probably sometime after 11 o’clock, and Jack Ruby was still sitting at John Noonan’s desk, who sat directly behind me, John handled the downtown advertising where his club was.

About 11:30 or so I got Charlie Mulkey, one of my advertising friends, and we went down to our personnel office to redraw some parking spaces they were doing that day, and then walked three and a half blocks over to try to get a good spot on the corner of Main and Houston to watch the parade as it come by and turn there.

We couldn’t get that spot on the corner of Main and Elm, it was already too crowded, so we moved down about half way down Houston street, from the corner of Main, between Main and Elm. Front of the county jail there, and they were just unloading a No Parking sign set in a big concrete bowl there, so I got up on that concrete so I could see over the crowd, and had a good view.

And just about a few minutes, about 12:15, 12:20 by then, across the street on Houston, on the sidewalk, in front of this reflecting pool that’s there, a man had an epileptic fit. And I remember him writhing around on the ground, and just almost out of nowhere, here come this ambulance, turn the corner off, loaded the man in there, and then took off down Houston street, over the Houston street viaduct toward Methodist hospital, we supposed. And the thing I remember so much about it now, then was that of all the documentaries that we’ve seen on JFK that I have, and the shows, there’s only been one that depicted that thing that happened, and I was really impressed by that particular show.

But in any case, right after that happened, within seemed like two or three minutes, the parade came, and passed by in front, and I remember Jackie waving and seeing the president.

And as they turned the corner on Elm street, in front of us which was just a half a block down and started down that Elm street in front of the book depository, we heard all these noises, and I couldn’t tell you to this day, I couldn’t then were there was one shot, ten, or five or whatever. It was just an echoing noise. To me it was no definite gunshots and I did not recall any three shots, it was echoing so.
In any case, I crossed Houston street between some parade cars, over to that reflecting pool, and I could see people running down towards the grassy knoll and the railroad tracks, so I started down the esplanade which part of it runs parallel to the book depository down towards that fence. And down when I got nearly to the fence, a policeman in brown, we called them County Mounties in Dallas, at that time stopped me. And he had a shotgun. And Charlie was behind me, and he said, “Where do you guys think you’re going?” and we said, “We’re going back to where all these people are running,” which was back towards the fence and this parking lot, or that area on top of the grassy knoll. He told us to get the hell out of there, so Charlie I guess left me at that point. I don’t know where he went, but I went ahead and started down that esplanade, made a left, started down towards the side, the picket fence corner there, and at the top of those steps that go down the grassy knoll. And it was there that I saw people laying all over and the median grass between there, couple motorcycles up on the, laying on the side of the hill, people and police running up towards the picket fence, to the right of me. I looked down at the top of those steps before you take the top step, there was a huge puddle that I thought was blood.

So, I walked on down, around it, down the steps, and I saw people in the median between Main and Elm, laying on the grass, people crying, I looked back and I could still see people headed all around the grassy knoll, in that area. And no one was going towards that book depository, that, no one. There was no one headed in that direction. So, I rushed on back to the News to see if I could find out something.

And as I come in the door, by then it must have been quarter to one, maybe. Maybe a little bit later than that.

Jack Ruby was still at Noonan’s desk. And I said to someone that Connelly might have been shot, and maybe even the president. I remember Jack Ruby jumped up then and ran back to our corner office. Dick Jefferies at that time was our promotion director. He ran in to his secretary’s desk there. He could look out the window directly down at that assassination site. And I remember him on the phone crying and talking.

Well, about that time I saw Jim Hood, who was our ad department photographer, and I went up to him and I said “Jim, I think I’ve seen some blood or something down there where all this stuff took place.” And he said “Well, let me get my camera, we’ll go back down there.” So, he got his camera and we went, rushed back down there. It was probably 1 or a little after by then. And everyone was gathered up around the book depository then.

We came up to this blood area, which now was all crinkly, looked like it had coagulated a little. And he put his little pinky on his right hand into that, and he stuck his tongue to it, and he said, “Why, that’s blood.” And he made a photo with his reflex camera.
We came on back to the News. And of course, we heard then that the president had been shot. And all this, so.

It was Sunday, I guess, when I was home then watching television as they were getting ready to transfer Oswald from the city jail to the county jail. And when Jack Ruby stepped forward, with that hat on he had, and that dark suit, I recognized him instantly as he was shot him [sic].

Well, I come into the office Monday morning, and Hugh Aynesworth, who was a News reporter, was there talking to Don. And Don turned around and said, “Coley there was at breakfast with me, and me and Jack, and we all sat there and talked that morning.” And I said, “Let’s go back over Jim, this morning and look at that blood.” We went back over and then there was no stain to be found anywhere. And it was like someone had cleaned it off very thoroughly. And then I got busy on my daily work that I had, nothing else happened until Tuesday AM.

The next morning when I came in and someone told me that Hugh Aynesworth in our Bulldog edition, which is printed up back, oh back then about 9’o’clock. They were printed for newsstands sale and downtown honor box sales. There was a story written by Hugh that said, “Coley at the News had visited with Jack Ruby that morning.” Someone then showed me that edition. I looked at it, and I said “Wow.”
It wasn’t thirty minutes later while I was preparing to go out, my wife called. And she was hysterical on the phone. And she said “I just received two threatening phone calls. They both have said if you don’t shut your mouth, they’re gonna kill me and our two kids,” a boy and a girl I had at that time. And I said, “What are you talking about?” She said, “That’s what they said.” I said, “Ah, it’s some whack. I don’t know anything, I haven’t said anything.”

So, I made my morning run and I got back probably about 10:30 that morning. At that time as I sat down to begin working on my ads, two men came up in dark suits. They kind of flashed a green ID card and said “We’re the FBI. Are you ‘Coley at the News’ that was mentioned in a story this morning?” And I said, “Well, I’m Jerry Coley.” They said, “Did you have coffee with Jack Ruby Friday morning?” And I said, “Yes, sir.” And they said, “We want to talk in private.” So, I said “Wait just a minute.”

So, I went to the back of the room to our vice president’s office, and I said, “Sy, I’m scared. Would you verify who these people are?” So Sy Wagner came up, he said, “You sit down in my office, and I’ll go up talk to them.” He went up and talked with these two men, and he came back in, oh, a few minutes. And said “Jerry, they’re okay. Go ahead and talk to them.”

So, I, they said, “Where can we meet in private?” and I said “Oh, we got a conference room just up here in front of the room.” So, they said, “Let’s go in there and talk.” So, I went in and one of them, the taller guy, was doing all the questions. The other one was making, looked like shorthand notes, but I couldn’t tell what he was doing there for sure. And he asked me to talk about that morning with Jack Ruby. And I did, and about when I was down at the parade area, and then I said, “I want to ask you a question.” And the guy taking notes said, “Wait a minute, we’re not here to answer questions, we’re here to ask,” in a rough kind of way. And I said, “Well, it’s about some blood I saw there.” Right away the man interviewing said “Tell me about this blood.”

So, I told them what I’d seen and that one of my advertising photographers had made a picture of it. And he said, “Is he here now?” and I said “Yes, he’s he sits just outside the door here.” He said, “Go get him, get his camera, his negatives, and any positives that he’s got, and you come back in here.”

So, I went up to Jim’s desk, and I said “Jim, can you please come in here with me and bring your camera and your negative? Did you print that piece out?” And he said, “I just printed out that photo this morning.” He said “You know, I don’t have right way in that photographic lab. The newsroom has first priority. With all that’s been going on, I haven’t been able to print that picture,” he said, “but I just did this morning.”
And I said, “Well, get it and come in here.” So, he brought the camera, the negative, and the positive was in a brown envelope. The FBI man, we went in, and he introduced himself and they had us sit down. The FBI who was doing the question, man, took the negative and then he took the envelope and opened it up and looked at the print, and that was the first time I had seen the print, it was just a print of the blood stain there on the, or the blood there, on top of the steps. And he wanted to know if there were any more prints made. Jim said “No, I’ve just been able to make that one this morning.”

So, then they turned and had some sort of muffled conversation between themselves, and it seemed like after an eternity as they stood there, probably 2 or 3 minutes, but the big guy stood up and then the other one did too. And he put everything in the bag, put it under his arm, then said “Boys, this conversation never took place, if you know what we mean.” And they walked out the door and left.

Jim and I sat in that conference room, and he said “What the hell is going on here? What have you gotten me into? and I said “Jim, I don’t know what’s going on. I just know that my wife’s been threatened. He said “What?!” I said “Yeah.” He said “Well, what are you saying?” I said, “I’m not talking to anybody, Jim.”  He said “Then you should shut your mouth and I’m gonna shut mine. And let’s don’t talk about this blood mess anymore!” And I said, “I won’t.”

Well, we didn’t.

Wasn’t long after that, a few days after that, I received a subpoena to Jack Ruby’s trial. And on the subpoena, which I still have, it’s addressed to “Coley at the News,” which I guess was taken from that news story that ran on that two-star edition only.
Some, I don’t know when it was, in the 70s sometime after that, “Unsolved Mysteries”, an NBC production called and said, “We would like to meet with you after work and listen to your story about Jack Ruby that morning and your association with him.” And I said “Fine.”

And so, they came that afternoon about 6.

About 9 o’clock they took a short break and I called my wife to tell her we’re still going on, and I said “You know what? Everybody that could corroborate my story about the blood now is dead. Jim Hood, Sy Wagner, Don Campbell.” I said, “You know, we’ve never talked about it, and I just gotta tell somebody and to get it off, let it be open.” She panicked. She said, “Don’t do that.” And I said “Well, you know if I talk about this, they’ll think, well at the worst I’m some kind of nut. Nobody’s going to believe me, but at least I told it.”

Well I did, and they nearly flipped out.

They said, “We want to come back the next morning, we want to go over to where this happened, we want to.” And they did. I met them, and we went over there.

This thing went on all morning long.

And, finally, they said “Okay, it’s a wrap. We’ll call you when we get back to California and give you the run show date for when we’re going to run this.”

Well, they called, seemed like two or three days later, and says “We can’t use that blood story. We couldn’t substantiate it.” And I said “I told you that when I told you the story. That’s why I told it to you.” So, they said “Well we can only use the other part about Jack Ruby.”

Then after that I’ve been interviewed by the Japanese, out of Tokyo, Japan. They came over, talked. Of course, they had all kinds of wild theories.

I don’t advance a theory of what I’ve seen other than I know that what I saw, it scared me to death. I know my wife was threatened three times on the phone. For me to shut up, which I haven’t said anything other than that story that Hugh had written about me talking with Jack Ruby that morning.

And I know that when this happened, I was there, I saw the people run towards that picket fence. No one ran towards the book depository.

And that’s all I know first-hand, sir.

Len Osanic – Now, let me just go over, I just have a couple of questions then.

Jerry Coley – Okay.

Osanic - I’m not sure if I was not interpreting, so I just want to ask you, where exactly would you say the blood was? You said on steps, right?

Coley – On the steps, there is an esplanade-looking thing that comes down the hill.

Osanic – Right.

Coley – To Elm street, and there’s steps. It’s almost, it starts almost close to that corner of the picket fence there, just to the right of it. These steps come down to the sidewalk.

Osanic - Well let me ask you this. Did you have a feeling that had something to do with the assassination, that that might have been?

Coley – Well, you know, my personal theory is that it had to have something to do, someone was hit there.

Osanic - And if it was close enough to the street, that’s why you felt it was important, that, we better make a note of this, … the fence is kind of up the hill there, right?

Coley – Right. It’s up that grassy knoll that leads down to Elm street, Elm street kind of makes a semi “s” coming down around that curve, and it’s…

Osanic - It’s up there. Secondly, you’ve felt threatened by these FBI that when they said the interview never happened, they took the picture, they took everything, and that was the end of that?

Coley – Yes sir. It, you know, like Jim and I still remember Jim saying “My God, if we can’t, if we can’t be truthful to the FBI, what’s going on? Whoa. What, how big is this? What’s happening?” And he said, “I don’t know about you but I’m shutting my mouth and I think you better too, since you’re one getting all the threatening calls.” And we both said, “We’re not going to talk about it,” and we didn’t for about 13 years before I talked about it. It was after Don and, as I said, the three people involved that could corroborate my story that morning died, that I, I said I’m going to talk about it.

Osanic - Let me get the, if I have the people that you mentioned straight. Hugh Aynesworth.

Coley – Hugh Aynesworth. He’s one that I don’t quite understand either because he, I read, someone told me that he was speaking somewhere, or maybe he’s written it, I don’t know, said “Oh yeah, I saw that up there, it was a soda pop.” And I thought, “Wow. We… I had a man that I, a photographer who tasted it. It was blood.” But, anyway, so yeah, he can say what he wants, it doesn’t matter.

Osanic - Hugh was the one who wrote…

Coley – He wrote the story about me talking to Ruby, I guess, that got me in all this trouble.

Osanic - And then the name of the photographer that was with you?

Coley – The photographer was Jim Hood. H-o-o-d. And the man that worked with me in my Food and Drug was Don Campbell c-a-m-p-b-e-l-l.

Osanic - Right. The next question would be, that I think a lot of people have an interest about, Jack Ruby, where he was and what he was doing for thoughts that he had some foreknowledge or some planning. You know, going over this again, he was at the News in the morning?

Coley – You know, Jack Ruby and he, and all the stories I have read, and things that I heard even before he died was that he was such a patriot and how he loved the president. And I really found that hard to believe at that time that, if he really loved the president, why would he just be hanging around our office, when he could walk 3 and a half blocks down the street and see him in person, come by, he and his wife? That just never made sense to me.

Osanic – Now, is it your opinion that he was there the whole morning, then?

Coley – Yes, he was, as far as I know.

Osanic - That’s fine, because I think someone, if I’m correct, it would be a woman named Julia Ann Mercer, who thought she saw him in a pickup truck dropping off someone around that area. I don’t want to, I just want to hear your story and your side of it is that…

Coley – He was there from 8 till about I guess it was about 9 that morning. I left, I know he was there then. He was there at 9 while I left to go on my advertising calls. When I came back, around 11 o’clock or so, he was still there, sitting at John Noonan’s desk. He usually came in on Friday, but he normally was never there more than about an hour.

Osanic - You could speak as fact through your observations from 8 till 9, he was there, and then after 11 he was there.

Coley – Yes. He was there when I came back from the assassination site.

Osanic - Wasn’t it until the news was all flashing there that he got up?

Coley – Yes. There’s a tv over in that corner. And he was sitting at that desk, he calls someone, the news is coming out at that time that the president had been shot. And I remember him crying, on the phone. And Jim Hood and I then left the second-floor office to go back over there.

Osanic - The news was being flashed then that Kennedy had been shot, not only governor Connelly, for sure he would have heard that news, is that what you’re telling me then?

Coley – I really believe that. I believe by then he probably had heard the news that the president had been shot. I don’t know at that time they were saying he was dead, but I believe that...

Osanic - And from your opinion, he was in shock. You’re saying to the point of being upset?

Coley – He was upset. I don’t know if it was shock or not. 

Osanic - You’re saying that that was the last time you saw him?

Coley – There that day, yes. That day. I saw him then, next time I saw him was on television as he was shooting Oswald.

Osanic - When did the story come out? Was it Monday that you had…?

Coley – The story came out Tuesday morning, because Monday morning was when Hugh was talking to Don, and Don said “Well, hey, Jerry was there with me. Coley was there with me.” So, in the story, Hugh said “Coley at the News was having coffee with Ruby.”

Osanic - And this newspaper run though was a short one. You mentioned it was only 15 hundred copies, so it would be somewhat rare to find.

Coley – That’s… yes. They’re very hard, in fact, we have tried several times since then to find and could not. They only saved a certain amount of a few papers back then.

Osanic - Right, but someone may find it. Someone may have a copy.

Coley – That’s true.

Osanic - Right. Well, I guess to sum up then, you said this is just recollections and you don’t have, you can’t really draw any conclusions further to who did what, except for just this is what you know.

Coley – Yes, sir.

Osanic - Is there anything else then that, I didn’t want to bring up too much, just exactly wanted to hear what you had to say.

Coley – Okay, that’s all right. No sir, all I’m saying is this is what I know, and it’s not hearsay or hand me down or happenstance. This is what I know. And what happened to me and my family, and of course we’ve all got ideas about things, but this is what happened.

Osanic – Right. Now, your wife didn’t get any threats until after Tuesday?

Coley – That’s right.

Osanic - So it was after that, so it had to be some relation to that.

Coley – Well we really thought so because the first caller, the first one, that caller said, “Is your husband Coley at the News?” So there had to be some correlation to the story. And then again, my subpoena reads “Coley at the News.”

Osanic - Did you feel that any of these people who have subsequently passed away had had a mishap?

Coley – Jim Hood, who made my picture of the blood, left the news not too often long after that, went back to Oklahoma, and I usually saw him once a year, he would call me and say, he was a big Oklahoma fan, and said “I’d like tickets to get them for the Texas Oklahoma game”, and I said, “Sure” and I could get him two tickets every year. Well after a couple three years, he didn’t call. And we began to wonder about him, and so finally we tracked down his wife, and found that he had died strangely in a plane crash. He was a pilot. In a little small plane. It died strangely one day, the plane crash without any kind of provocation. No bad weather. They just didn’t understand, but it crashed.

Osanic - And I guess we’ve heard many people saying that anybody witnessing or having anything to do with it, there’s a lot of untimely deaths. You know, just more than anecdotal, more than you can say, “Well…” I think the British did an analyzation of it, and it was like, you know, astronomical the odds of so many people being involved in some event and all passing away within the 3, 4 year period. Almost as if some effort was done to really make sure that things stay buried.

Coley – Yes, sir. Hearing all those things made us live in fear for about ten years. We… that’s… we were really terrified, we were really scared, my wife and my 2 children. We just kind of shut up and didn’t talk, out of fear, to anybody. We didn’t know what was taking place.

Osanic - If you figured “This has nothing to do with me, there’s no sense stirring up any hornet’s nest.” But then on the other side of the coin, for the Warren Commission to be blaming Oswald, there must have been many people in the Dallas area that were sitting on information, saying “Well if wasn’t Lee Oswald,” I mean, “If it was Lee Oswald, why did, why the big cover up?”

Coley – You know, the Japanese when they came, they were really nice and they… goodness gracious, the pictures they made. Not with movies but still shots, and it was interesting to hear their view. They said that Jack Ruby, and they said, “Here is what we’re pursuing, Jack Ruby was a little two-bit hood who was used to shut Oswald up as Oswald was about to talk. They used Ruby to do that, and that this thing was so high in the government and so unbelievable that they said that we’ll never hear what really, who was behind all this.” And I said, “You mean like high authorities in our government?” “Oh, yes, yes.” And then they also pointed out to me, which at that time I hadn’t thought much about, that when Oswald left his apartment there on the corner it was Beckley, just off the corner there, and started up the street, why in the world, he turned down Patton street, and he was headed over toward Beckley and Ewing, I guess, going back east on Patton. If he would have gone to the end of Patton there, tuned right on Marsales and gone up a block and a half, he would have been at Ruby’s apartment. They said, “Doesn’t that seem strange to you?” and I said “Well, in a way, probably.” They said, “Had he continued on his way, how…” He went home and changed, jackets or shirts, I don’t remember now, but he changed some clothes, put on a jacket or took off a jacket. Said, “How would the police, police sitting there on a patrol, why would he stop him walking down the street 30 minutes after the, 45 minutes, I guess, after the assassination, on this little quiet street in Oak Cliff?” There’s so much.

Osanic - Yeah. And I guess the only complaint that people would have is that any arm of the government that was supposed to investigate this really failed, the FBI, even the Secret Service is held to blame for some areas, and justice department, and there should have been a trial. I think that it’s fundamentally illegal for the state of Texas not to have a trial, a murder trial, so, as a citizen you’re relying a bit on the government to look into matters and present them. And it’s like when the fox is investigating who raided the henhouse, and it kinda leads you to the conclusion that there is some organized effort here to remove a president, and it wasn’t a lone nut.

Coley – I agree. I think this thing is, in my lifetime I’ll never know. I was real hesitant for a long time to talk about this because I had so many people saying “Oh there’s one of those conspiracy talkers, and he’s always looking for some limelight.” I never wanted any kind… I’ve not written any books, I don’t want to write any books, I’ve never, even when I talk to these various churches and organizations here in east Texas now, I refuse any kind of compensation. I don’t want that. I said, my only interest was one day the truth will be known.

Osanic - Because every agency it seems, is fighting this, and every year some other big publishing firm is publishing another book, just how Lee Oswald did it after all, or they have new videos or, I think that when people are coming up with the conclusion that there was a big government orchestration in this and it doesn’t have to mean that it was sponsored by the government, J. Edgar Hoover or the CIA, but it has to be elements of all of them. At this point in time Kennedy had so many enemies, that when one group went to act out, everyone else in big power was only too happy to accommodate this. So, Lyndon Johnson has a lot of suspicion about him, but the first question when he phoned J. Edgar Hoover was “Were they shooting at me too?” He didn’t say “he,” he said “they.” He was a little worried, like, “Were they shooting at me too?” So it was more like, he heard the bullets going over the top of his head and he knew. And J. Edgar Hoover assured him “No, we have the gunman, we have three shots, we have the whole thing already wrapped up”, and this is like a day or two right after, so, someone had a story ready to go.

Coley – Yes. That’s like the Warren Commission. That was a quick whitewash of everything, and they certainly didn’t talk to a lot of people they should have talked to. And it was just a quick way to get the country, I guess, back on track, and whitewash this whole thing, get it over with. Well, I appreciate the chance to be talking with you, and thank you much.

13 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ruby told the Warren Omission he didn't leave the offices of the Dallas Morning news for hours before, during and even after JFK and Jackie passed next to the DMN building because he was uncomfortable with big crowds...and they bought this outrageous lie!

I’m not sure what part of this you are casting is a lie, Joe, but Jim Coley corroborates Ruby’s story of being at DMN offices through that period.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaeton_Fonzi

 

In 1972, having helped Philadelphia to its first National Magazine Award, Fonzi left Philadelphia and moved to Miami, where he worked on Miami Monthly and Gold Coast magazines.

In 1975, he was hired by Senator Richard Schweiker as a researcher for the Church Committee into the activities of US intelligence agencies, and in 1977 he was hired as a researcher for the House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). According to The New York Times, Fonzi was recruited as an investigator for the HSCA "mainly on the strength of scathing magazine critiques he had written about the Warren Commission and its conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald had acted alone in killing the president in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963."

On 7/5/2019 at 10:15 PM, David Andrews said:

I'm not judging.  I'm going to croak before reading a lot that I wanted, and a lot that I should have read before I might aspire to become a snob.

Before moving on I acknowledge the unfortunate circumstance of having put-off David. It was only marginally important for me to make the observation that I did. I can say that my observation was researched and the comment on the quality of TKAM was made by true literary critics; whom, I will add, never disparaged the the importance of that work.To be sure, I was simply sharing observations made by others.

32 minutes ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

I am not familiar with this person.  I look forward to hearing more about this!

 

I love this description of Socrates fleeing the Battle of Delium. It kind of trashes the portrait of the effete Philosopher; even if he was retreating.

The words are of Alcibiades, as recorded by Plato:

"Furthermore, men, it was worthwhile to behold Socrates when the army retreated in flight from Delium; for I happened to be there on horseback and he was a hoplite. The soldiers were then in rout, and while he and Laches were retreating together, I came upon them by chance. And as soon as I saw them, I at once urged the two of them to take heart, and I said I would not leave them behind. I had an even finer opportunity to observe Socrates there than I had had at Potidaea, for I was less in fear because I was on horseback. First of all, how much more sensible he was than Laches; and secondly, it was my opinion, Aristophanes (and this point is yours); that walking there just as he does here in Athens, 'stalking like a pelican, his eyes darting from side to side,' quietly on the lookout for friends and foes, he made it plain to everyone even at a great distance that if one touches this real man, he will defend himself vigorously. Consequently, he went away safely, both he and his comrade; for when you behave in war as he did, then they just about do not even touch you; instead they pursue those who turn in headlong flight." (Plato, Symposium, 220d–221c)

Posted over 3 years ago, with 5621 views, and 7 comments. I had to stop viewing to post this.

The first 18 minutes... so far..

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

No, TKAM is a good book and an enduring mythos of justice and innocence lost.  Sullied, however, by the racism imputed to Lee's other,  posthumously published novel, and by the business of Lee having been too timid to attempt another work that might not have met TKAM's standard. 

"It's a fine book that should be taken out of the hands of children and junior high school English teachers, who invariably spoil everything."  -- Mark Twain.

Please don’t lose me here, David, on a non-critical, non-analysis, of a book that I have never read.

On 7/1/2019 at 6:06 PM, Michael Clark said:

Hint #2. Harper Lee

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mocking/symbols/

“The title of To Kill a Mockingbird has very little literal connection to the plot, but it carries a great deal of symbolic weight in the book. In this story of innocents destroyed by evil, the “mockingbird” comes to represent the idea of innocence. Thus, to kill a mockingbird is to destroy innocence.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Kill_a_Mockingbird

To Kill a Mockingbird is a novel by Harper Lee published in 1960. Instantly successful, widely read in high schools and middle schools in the United States, it has become a classic of modern American literature, winning the Pulitzer Prize.

———————————————-

To be sure, I am not buying significance of the title, “To Kill a Mockingbird”, as offered in the explanations for its meaning that I have found. Also, literary criticism is far from unanimous as to the literary quality of that work. For my purposes (and I can’t say “IMHO”, because I have not read it) it’s title, and manufactured fame, lie in it’s utility.

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Wait!  What about Veciana's roommate?

 I am not recalling a roommate, David.

****edit, I see what you are talking about. I’ll try to find the rest of that document.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38109&relPageId=2&search=leslie_and cogswell

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/3DDCEF27-D58A-4D93-B14B-5319C38CF308.jpeg?ver=1562035081858

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days

....spotlighting the previously minor character of Fonzie, a "cool" biker and high school dropout.^[2] Following these changes, Happy Days became the number-one program in television in 1976–1977, Fonzie became one of the most merchandised characters of the 1970s

 

 

11 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Skip to Mr. Spacely.

/

I can’t yet David. But I’ll PM you a clue for playing along.

*** PM did not work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini

“While the two-piece swimsuit as a design existed in classical antiquity,[8] the modern design first attracted public notice in Paris on July 5, 1946.[9] French automotive engineer Louis Réard introduced a design he named the "bikini", adopting the name from the Bikini Atoll in the Pacific Ocean,[10][11] which was the colonial name the Germans gave to the atoll, transliterated from the Marshallese name for the island, Pikinni.[12]

Four days earlier, the United States had initiated its first peacetime nuclear weapons test at Bikini Atoll as part of Operation Crossroads..”

One more hint before bed. To be sure, it won’t be of much help without a link or two which I’ll share tomorrowish.

On 12/9/2010 at 1:29 AM, William Kelly said:

KELLY'S FOUR UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

1) Why are there still so many documents being withheld for reasons of national security nearly fifty years after the assassination, especially if the official story is true and the president was murdered by a lone nut case and there was no evidence of conspiracy?

2) Why were so many documents, notes, photos, films and other records and evidence deliberately destroyed, or are missing, stolen or being deliberately withheld, with no one being held accountable, and the Congress failing to hold JFK Act oversight hearings?

3) Why hasn't the murdered president been given a proper forensic autopsy, a routine procedure in all such criminal cases that creates evidence that can be used in a court of law?

4) Why hasn't there been a routine Dallas or federal grand jury investigation of the assassination of the President, the murder of Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit and the destruction and theft of records of the assassination, as there should be according to the Constitution of the USA?

9 years later, and after the documents release... still a seminal set of questions.

BTW, I took a 12 out of 15 line hit from one of the beasts at the Mystery Science Theater 1963 Forum today for posting this thread. 

Hint #2. Harper Lee

36 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Are you saying that the scope can be moved backward and forward and then locked in at different horizontal positions along the barrel below it?

That the scope in the above photo seems longer in it's farther back position relative to the bolt handle than the lower photo simply because someone adjusted it to a different front to back barrel position?

And the notch does seem different in depth.  Is that due to a different angle or distance of the photo?

Hi Joe, yes, that is what I am saying. To be sure, in relation to the gun, I would refer to the scope adjustment we are talking about as longitudinal adjustment. I would be surprised if, as Jim suggests above, John says that this scope does not adjust in such a fashion. Scopes adjust in this manner to accommodate arm lengths and preferences of the shooter. It is fairly common for a new shooter to get his or her eye too close to the scope and end up with a black or bloody eye from the recoil punching the scope into the shooters face. (I warned my brother, honest!). 

6 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

I did a bit of quick internet reading on the character of the Fonz who apparently was only allowed at first to wear his leather jacket when he was seated on his motorcycle because the network thought a leather jacket sent the wrong message.  

Other than that, I have no idea how his character ties into JFK.

For the bikini, it had a lot of media push in the early 60's in popular culture...but again that the closest I can get to media sending a deliberate message.  

So, yes, I am stumped.

 

Hi Stephanie, Thanks for participating. I’ll think of another hint. Perhaps I’ll send you a hint through PM for participating. Maybe that will be a good way to move along, sending hints to participants and sharing hints on the thread as well.

To be sure, all scopes I have used slide forward and back in the mounting rings. If you had to remove a scope for transport or storage, or to use a scope on several guns, you would remove the scope from the mount, not the mount from the gun. While MC might be different in ease of mount removal, the scope would still, probably, slide within the mount.

Hint #1 - Operation Mockingbird