Adam Johnson

Hi Folks, Great find Cory, this airtel throws up some interesting stuff... Here's some things i noticed and raises some questions.... For some reason special agents in Little Rock Arkansas think LHO is in their area in October 63' why? New Orleans special agent Kraak doesn't know LHO whereabouts on 31st October 63' and neither does the bureau head office on October 30th. The words chosen in shanklins report of the 4TH November 63' implies that Hoover and others know who Ruth Paine is, no explanation describing who the person is offering up the information about LHO is placed in the airtel. The initials JPH appear underneath the number of copies routed to sections.....therefore logically James P Hosty was the one reporting Ruth's comments to Shanklin. The way shanklin writes the opening lines of the report implies the Ruth Paine was a previous fbi information source...he is crediting her without explanation for this latest information. Do we have any previous verification as to the actual date Hosty called out to Irving and interviewed Ruth and Marina....because if it wasnt the eveñing of October 31st or the morning of November 1st....the information in this airtel would have to have been phoned in by Ruth Paine to James Hosty. Interesting that this airtel was seen by the National Intelligence Secretary, the Mexico City station and the Russia division of CIA all on or before Tuesday November 19th 1963. Regards, A.J

Pretty Sure that Joshia Thompson's latest presentation video that i watched states he also believes that Governor Connelly's right wrist was struck after the JFK head shot(Z313). I have to say that the wrist being struck when Connelly's right hand is up above his seat backs and near the partition/front seat upholstery seems more feasible then a bullet going thru Kennedy's torso then thru Connelly's torso then into his wrist and into his left leg. From Zframes you can see a clear white shirt sleeve cuff on Connelly's right hand during the shooting when his right hand comes up as he moves across into his wifes lap. Then a few frames later a blood stain or dark colouration does seem to now appear on Connelly's right shirt sleeve cuff. It would correlate with Kellermen's flurry of shots coming into the limo statement...if one of those shots hit Connelly's wrist then deflected downward towards his left leg(thigh). More food for thought. A.J

Hi Max, From your research and interviews can you tell us how involved(if at all) with the Russian emigre community was Ruth or Michael in the immediate years following the assassination? Did she ever teach any other young students? Or did they have no contact post assassination with anything of a Russian nature? Many thanks for your efforts and time, A.J

Here you go Steven...

I had a semester of German in high school, i didnt start going to after hour classes to learn more, i didn't go spend every monday evening at the German club in town or go to private functions held by German community members hoping to befriend them and become part of their click. The Paine's had an ulterior motivation. Once again, they weren't going to Russia for a holiday, they didn't have close Russian speakering relatives...oh and they were supposed to be separated but no no, we still go to our Russian emigre party nights together...mmm love those. As my former girlfriends would often say "f%#@&% me". A.J

Game, Set, Bingo. A.J

Where did the attending doctors, nurses, funeral staff and autopsy personnel say the wound was in president Kennedy’s head, when they first got the chance to personally go on record to the world...

The world's first description of what happened to the president, 60 minutes after it happened: Malcolm Kilduff: "it was a simple case of a bullet right through the brain"

I have several points I'd like to make after reading this thread: Did anyone notice this off of one of the article links Jim D posted on page 1 of the thread: From: Jerry Shinley Subject: New Orleans and the 1959 World Youth Festival in Vienna Date: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:05 PM In 1959, a New Orleans man, Richard C. Bell, in conjunction with a Chicago group, organized a group of students to attend the 1959 World Youth Conference in Vienna. His plans attracted opposition from the local American Legion, especially Kent Courtney, Festus Brown and James Pfister. The Legion organized a Free Enterprise Seminar "to alert local college students to the dangers involved in attending the communist-sponsored World Youth Festival in Vienna." Speakers at the seminar include Guy Banister, Medford Evans and Douglas Caddy. Bell and his group did make it to Vienna. Is this, our Douglas Caddy?? Dear Mr. Caddy is this you? Did you know or meet Guy Bannister? Next point: In the late 1950's and early 1960's cold war era, why would any middle class American husband and wife spend time learning to speak Russian? i can only comprehend 3 valid reasons...you had relatives that only spoke Russian and wanted to communicate better with them, you planned on holidaying/travelling thru Russia and wanted to learn the language to assist you on your travels or thirdly for employment opportunities. Which applies from the list above to Ruth and Michael Paine.... [As a side note, do any of our American based readers have friends or family members who have recently taken on learning to speak the Arabic language in the past year, you know so they can befriend the Palestinian ex-pats currently living in America and be ready to assist displaced Palestinian families with former Hamas military leaders that might be relocating to the Dallas area soon]. I've had my hair cut short by clippers for the past 20 years (#3 back and sides #6 on top) never, have i ever had my hair cut 4,5,6 or 7 times in 8 weeks. Once every 10 to 12 weeks and my hair grows fast I've been told. Who knows anyone with thinning hair that has it cut every two or three weeks??? Did/Does Ruth Paine speak Spanish??? If so, does anyone know when she learnt the language? Was it just prior to her trips to help save the world in South America? Did anybody in 64 or later ever consider showing the barber's a damn photograph of Hootkins from his high school yearbook...hello McFly..... A.J

So the fbi followed her daily for 8 years, new the content of phone calls she made on the day she died, followed her 28 days out of 44 to dr.greenson's house......But had nobody watching her at her house in the 24 hours leading up to her death. Okay.

Jim, I'm not saying the Carroll report doesn't exist...I'm asking for help to locate it online so i can read it! I dont believe any MM diary exists. To many people close to her said she didnt have one. I'm not saying i believe Rothmiller's description of what Peter Lawford told him happened. Who the hell is Scaduto? If you dont have friends who will cover for you sometime, why have friends...I'm saying its 100% possible Bates and his Wife could have lied...did they lie? I dont know...but if an OCID tape ever turns up or a transcript of a Saturday conversation at fifth helena with RFK in it...they goddam 100% lied. And you cannot be 100% certain they did not lie, just as i cannot be 100% certain they did, yet. Now a 1980's ocid chief says they had a MM file, he also says many files from the 60's 70's were incinerated in the 80's by his hand... he also says some main/special files were saved and stored. Who wants to bet a $1 that the MM file comes under the ocid category of special? Has anyone debunked the LAPD Officer who pulled over Peter Lawfords car that Saturday night who said he saw RFK in the vehicle around midnight. Regards A.J

Hi Jim, What I'm on about is...... Rothmiller who you seem to give zero credibility to any of his statements is not lying about having access to an OCID file on MM. He's not lying about the methods OCID used in the 50's 60's and 70's to gather information on people. So when he mentions, transcripts and actually tape recordings in the MM file, 2+2 = 4. Now you, or i cannot confirm, varify or debunk what Rothmiller says was on those documents and tapes because we didnt see or hear them...and neither did Don Mcgovern......all we can do is pick at Rothmiller's statements. You dont believe RFK could of left Gilroy on that Saturday...i believe he could of easily...3 military bases located less than 45 minutes from Gilroy and its surrounding suburbs could have supplied RFK with transport to and from LA. You mention John Bates claiming rfk hadnt left and photographs were taken of our Friday and Saturday activities on the ranch.......was john bates asked this on Sunday August 5th 1962.......No, he was asked months later then years later. No chance he could of prepared for that. I've spent 24 hours on the internet searching for John Carroll's reort or even the 30 page summary.....cant find it anywhere . Did you read this 1992 LA Times article????? Shoots holes in your Rothmiller is a 100% xxxx mindset. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-26-mn-5254-story.html A.J

Trying to locate the DA Carroll 641 page report online Jim, any chance you may have a link? Im happy to read it! All the diary/journal crap i dont believe for a second... So far all I'm stating is: 1. in 1962 LAPD OCID had a file on MM and they gathered intel anyway they could without fear of retribution..in 1962...not in the 80s or 90s but in 1962 no fear of legal retribution. Rothmiller claims this, others who worked for OCID have confirmed this and gone on record in interviews in the 80s and 90s confirming it. So Rothmiller is not lying about a MM File, which he stated contained wire taps and voice recordings on tape and in transcript....which was standard for files of this nature at this time in the history of LAPD OCID. 2. It was possible for RFK to leave Gilroy on Saturday from anytime after say 10:30am/ 11am and be away until 3am Sunday morning. This doesn't mean he was gone the whole time...this is his window of opportunity.....according to Bates family they (4 adults) finished dinner and went separate ways at 9.30pm Saturday nite, they then dont see RFK until going to mass at 9:00am Sunday morning. The Bates ranch has 3 separate 3 bedroom homes on it as well as a 3 bedroom ranch forman's house. I dont think the Kennedy’s and Bates families all slept in one 3 bedroom home that night.....i also believe if asked they would say the Kennedy’s and Robert never left even if Robert did under some false pretence. Happy to read more and have my current no.2 point change My jibe at the carroll/warren reports was because you have another fox investigating the hen house situation...20 years later the LA district attorneys say the LA officials investigating MMs death did everything right and came up with the right conclusion just like the warren commission did in 1964. I look forward to reading the Carroll report. A.J

Hi Jim, No i haven't read the DA's report refuting Slatzer's book or Carmen's and Speriglio's claims. Was the DA's 641 pages anything like the 26 volumn Warren Commission report? Until a few days ago i had never heard of Rothmiller or his books...the reports of RFK in LA the day MM died of course, the fact he was in Gilroy, yes. I had read/heard that Lawford claimed he had spoken too and seen MM the day she died and was guilt ridden over her death for many years afterwards. I had of course heard of LAPDs gangster squad but did not know officially it became OCID. So for the past few days i started doing my own research and reading...firstly let me state i dont know if Rothmiller's peter lawford confession is truthful...i can confirm what he said OCID did in the 50's 60's 70's and early 80's is accurate. Other OCID current members in 1992 and former members in 1992 confirmed how the department operated..as Rothmiller said. Oh, and one of the department's former chiefs confirmed the existence of files on Hollywood celebrities and Entertainment Industry members. Heres a link to an article written by 2 LA Times reporters in 1992 confirming and naming other OCID staff members that pretty much corroborate Rothmiller's statements...not statements about how MM died, but about how OCID operated and that they had a MM file. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-26-mn-5254-story.html Rothmiller is also described by co workers as being in the top 10% of detectives at OCID. They even named the file room as "the SafeRoom" only a few members had keys and access. These are independent corroborating statements confirming what Rothmiller has said in video interviews I've watched and statements written in book's attributed to him. I've researched John Bates and his family owners of the Gilroy ranch outside San Fran, his friendship with JFK starting in 1945/6 in the navy then in the mid 50's working with senator John Kennedy was strong, you probably know in 61' JFK asked him to be Bobby's assistant AG in Washington. The Bates ranch and winery was up for sale in 2008 for $15 MILLION. I dont doubt for a second Mr. Bates and his wife would have no problem making a covering statement for RFK if required. RFK could very easily have met a helicopter at numerous points 15 to 20 minutes drive from the Bates ranch, google map the ranch and mount madonna, the Bates ranch was 40 minutes south of San Fran....it was 308 miles drive from the ranch to Brentwood if your interested. Depending on what type of helicopter 2.5 hours to LA was very achievable even in 1962. It was very possible for him to go to LA and back in 6 or 7 hours. Did he, we dont know. I dont know, But to say definitively he didn't is asking people to take a leap of faith because, we may get confirmation one day he did. I've also learned it was reported the Kennedy’s went to a 9.30am Sunday church service in Gilroy, no photographs located so far and no specific mention of RFK just the "Kennedy family" went to church. After that, nothing of the families activities or photos attributed to Sunday. Apparently OCID in the 80's and 90's incinerated old files, but some key ones were warehoused...whether the MM file still exists, we dont know...who knows maybe a future LA Chief of Police will release the file and its contents on the 100 anniversary of Marilyn's death and make fools of us all. AJ

Again i say, Why has no one tried to confirm Rothmiller's statements regarding files, tapes and photographs with other former members who worked between 1962 and 1983 as part of LAPD's OCID. We cannot confirm or totally refute Peter Lawfords statements to Rothmiller because only the two of them truly know what was said. As a side point regarding the Gilroy ranch, photographs, time frames and statements: The Kennedy’s arrived late friday afternoon in San Fran and went to the ranch, stayed Saturday and were back in San Fran Sunday afternoon around 4 or 5pm where they stayed overnight because RFK had to deliver a speech Monday morning... So here's the thing i find odd...in all the statements made by the Gilroy ranch owners and their staff, they only describe what happened Friday and Saturday...all 10 photographs found are said to be from Saturday's activities alone...horse riding, poolside fun, game of touch football, breakfast Saturday is spoken about and the private dinner for the adults Saturday night.... Not one person mentions anything about Sunday activities except the Kennedy’s left the ranch and arrived back in San Francisco around 4 or 5pm. No mention of breakfast or bbq lunches, no hiking or card/board games played with kids...nothing zip nada. What if the horse riding took place Saturday morning, but the swimming and Football activities took place Sunday. RFK has brown leather shoes horse riding, but black leather shoes in the family shot prior to or after the football game. If RFK left around 11am Saturday and returned early am Sunday morning (away 13-14hours) its still possible all the activities the Gilroys claim happened could still have taken place....they just took place friday night, Saturday morning and Sunday morning thru until 3pm. I dont believe RFK murdered MM, but i do believe the possibility of him telling his wife and family he had to go to an unforeseen meeting and problem solve an issue that had come up and he would be back later Saturday night is entirely possible. Where he went and when, only photos or recorded bugged conversations in MM's house could confirm his presence. Only OCID files or tapes if in existence can give us proof. The only other things we have are lawfords supposed statements and the police officer who said he saw RFK in a car in LA around midnight(why would he lie?). Cory- re: MM and Giancana Obviously no photographs exist of the two together, only thing that connects them is Frank Sinatra and the only thing i can see that may present an opportunity for MM and Giancana to interact in private is the Cal Neva Lodge. Perhaps they met there in the final 12 months or so of marilyn's life. We know she was there one weekend 3, 4 or 5 weeks before she died. A.J