Ron Ege

Jim, thank you for the confirmation, relating exactly why Lee left the money; I do recall, now. Relative to the ring, I always thought that was odd. I'll read Greg Parker's piece.

Joathan, I may have been misspoken/misremembered? What I meant to convey was that I thought that someone in one of the threads had surface the idea that Oswald may have been biding time in the TT, until he was to meet Ruth and Marina, somewhere. I hope I did not imply that was any kind of a theory by me, let alone a truism Relative to the money left, didn't the WR also mention Oswald's wallet as being left on the dresser, too? If so, then we get into "how many wallets did he own" discussion. Arrgh! I will admit that for me, if what we've read about the number of 'em is factual, even if he had just one additional, that seems a little suspicious, in and of itself. No Sherlock am I, but if Lee left just the $170/$180 cash, that would be understandable to me - for family support. Ostensibly, he still had enough money that day for a coke, bus/cab ride, and popcorn (if we believe that part of the TT visit). And maybe also, he saved a few bucks for himself for incidentals? He did not necessarily have to be dead broke. Admittedly, I don't remember how much money was found on his person after his arrest. If Oswald left the wallet too (much discussion about that, for sure), maybe he simply forgot it? I've forgotten mine, many times. I don't believe that it's totally out of the question. The wedding ring left. Good question. Over the years, I removed mine many, many times for various reasons - swollen finger from an in home/at work injury, undertaking a task where it would be dangerous to wear one, especially if I had been made aware the previous day of certain work tasks the next day, and then forgetting to put it back on, etc. More than once I removed my ring to clean it, got distracted, didn't, forgot, and left home that day - or even after the next day for work, without it. "Stuff happens" category, I guess. There were rumors that Marina and Lee were not getting along. Did they have a tiff, and he was making a point? Dunno. Theorizing was not the intent of the post - more like supposition, reviewing the "this happened that day/no it didn't" reports/evidence and the therefore, still apparent confusion as to what was really taking place on 11/22/63, causing Ozzie to take the actions/make the trip he did. IOW, thinking out loud that there's a lot of "stuff" out there that's been waded through over almost 60 years, leaving us with so many unanswered questions - leaving in their wake, hypotheses, theories, suppositions, ruminations, etc. - along with now decided facts, IMO, those due to a lot of hard work, by many here. I do not have a theory. I attempt to read and learn from others more learned here than am I (including you), asking questions and surfacing suppositions for comments, hoping to learn more. Relative to your question - I cannot know for sure, of course. Maybe all the stars aligned negatively that day for Lee, and regardless of what we know/think we know and/or has been reported/put in evidence - that Oswald was actually just an innocent, unsuspecting "Joe Blow" (no military intel/CIA/FBi affiliations) going to work that day, as usual, no nefarious deeds in mind - or at the other extreme, he really was the "Lone Nut Assassin" that some believe him to have been. It seems that most here believe him to have fallen somewhere in between, I'm gathering. I'm inclined to agree. Of course, I'm obviously just guessing, but again, I've come to believe that very shortly after the assassination, Ozzie came to realize that there would be some sort of previously unanticipated trouble for him, soon ahead - the amelioration/obviation of which - was not completely in his hands.

A point was made earlier that perhaps Oswald went to the theatre, killing a little time if I remember, before meeting Marina and Ruth to accompany them on a shopping trip. So, one would posit that the rendezvous has been prearranged the evening before, right? Did not Lee leave that morning before anyone else was awake? I guess Marina and he could've quickly discussed it that morning. If so, arriving at the theatre at one to one-thirty for a double feature, he probably would've finished watching the flicks around his usual TSBD quitting time, which would coincide with a late afternoon shopping trip with the ladies. But it that was the case, why did Oswald determine it important to take his "Pistola" with him? Expecting trouble during the shopping trip? Of course, then we get into - whether or not the gun was his or was it planted? We have the second-floor encounter/no encounter, outside the TSBD/inside during the shooting, the "Rambler Man"/or not, the bus/no bus, the cab ride and dropped off "here or there", the DPD cruiser "toot/no toot", standing on the corner/or not, walking east/walking west when stopped, witnesses reporting look alike/not look alike shooter and/or more than one, the mysterious, discarded jacket subsequent to the Tippit shooting, Oswald's wallet found/not found at the scene, arriving at the TSBD very shortly after one (didn't shoot Tippit)/arriving later (was the shooter), theater ticket/no ticket, popcorn/no popcorn, sitting right next to others and then moving on/or not, his gun/not his gun. Seemingly, it goes on and on, and I am sure I'm missing some. The shells, the bus transfer or not . . . . Oswald's overall behavior/actions, almost immediately following the assassination, until the moment that he was arrested, appears, upon review. anomalous, at best. The question is why. IMO, the answer is that Lee realized he didn't know what he didn't know and was trying to determine exactly what that was - whether or not he was there at the TT to meet someone (handler?) or he just reasoned that it was a convenient quiet, dark place to ruminate, collecting his thoughts before making his next move. Matthew, you make a great point, which I believe, is key. Prior to Oswald's arrest, other "actors" were "pulling strings" - which were invisible - and still, to the greatest extent, still are. Once Ozzie was in custody, the already established phony "evidence" would be surfaced by the "players", along with more of the same, conveniently supplied by the DPD, FBI, and the CIA, just to name three. Thank you.

Gee Pat, ya think? From the first, always seemed contrived; never bought it, still don't. Possible, of course. And also, especially after the first shot, the alleged hearing of the shells dropping on the floor above. Even more disbelieving. That ringing in your ears would surely obviate that - as well as the immediate shock of the surprise element of rifle shots occurring just above your head. Nigh onto impossible, IMO.

Gene, superb! Setting aside the humor, for that scene to have unfolded as it did, then the logic had to be that Brewer (if it was, indeed, his tip and his alone, that got the "squadron" to the theatre) immediately connected the sirens, to the "sneak", and then to the assassination. He didn't know Tippit had been shot, right? Why else the "squadron"? Otherwise, wouldn't the beat cop, if he had had the extra time that day, have been sufficient to investigate the perceived dastardly crime of someone not paying for a theatre ticket? Back in the day, when identified by someone, a theatre "nonpayer" would simply be escorted out by an usher/manager. Maybe, a phone call home if the offender was a juvenile. As well as darn observant, me thinks Brewer may have had above average deductive powers. Good thing Captain, oops "Squadron Leader" W. R. Westbrook, he, the ever omnipresent/ubiquitous one that day, was there to "save the day", ala, Mighty Mouse.

And maybe he was not? Mexico City, Part 1 (kennedysandking.com)

Jamey, thanks for the refresher. Exactly that, is what I now remember.

All, great stuff. Witt: "I think if the Guiness Book of World Records had a category for people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing, I would be No. 1 in that position without even a close runner up." That's probably the best understatement I've ever heard or read. It smacks of being self-serving, adding "some icing on the cake" to portray himself as just a regular guy, caught up in in the midst of a completely horrible event - a scenario wherein a confluence of time, place, people, and their actions mysteriously converged, ending in a president's assassination. Q: "Why were you there, Louie?" A: "Oh, just on a whim. Thought I'd take my trusty, ole umbrella to demonstrate against Chamberlain's and JFK's pop's appeasement of Hitler, back in the day. You remember." Q: "Yep, I remember Chamberlain's appeasement, but I don't know of ANYONE associating that with him carrying an umbrella, just like multitudes of British men did back then - not so much - especially after around 25 years later. What made you think that JFK would 'get it', Louie? Seems like he'd be pretty busy smiling, waving, turning his head, playing the crowd and not too much interested in some supposed connection between an obvious esoteric symbol and his dad, right?" A: "Oh, I just knew that young feller was pretty day gone smart. I'm sure he read all about it at the time. I just knew he'd put two and two together." Yeah, probably something like that! "Screeching of tires (and brakes)", if it in fact happened, indicates tires skidding - which denotes a quite hard application of the brakes. Hm-m. He indeed raised the umbrella high over his head at least once. I've seen a still of it, and one where Whitt is holding it normally. It's been a long time since I saw/read it, but there is something out there which convinced me that the umbrella Witt brought with him to the committee was not the same umbrella he carried that day. Yes, I think the Umbrella Man was Whitt. A complete biography of his adult years, before the assassination might make for a fascinating read. Any chance he had any background in intel and or the military?

I like humor.

Pat, thank you. I believe you're absolutely spot on. Anyone with even a modicum of shooting experience (especially one picking presidential assassins) would NOT select Oswald as a shooter. Given Oswald's dearth of experience with a bolt action rifle (antiquated/decrepit as it was), if he were to have been actually selected to make a "kill shot", he simply could not have been trusted to even hit "the broad side of a barn" - let alone the two shots he was alleged to have made. What would be the point, then? And why would anyone even trust Oswald to purposely miss/make a diversion shot, as some have suggested? There is nothing in his history to suggest that he would make a great choice as anything approaching that of a pretend, would-be "mechanic" - in an actual presidential assassination plot or even a false flag operation. Even that would require a decent skillset that Oswald never demonstrated - to my knowledge, anyway. By all accounts, Ozzie was bookish, basically a self-perceived quasi-intellectual, "paper pusher" type of guy. Sure, as a low-level intel operative/FBi informant he did seemingly demonstrate acceptable performance in that role, given his retention as such. Oswald, perhaps, could have had some peripheral knowledge of maybe what he perceived to be just a "conceptual" assassination plot. When the shooting occurred, he "put two and two together" and realized he'd "been had". Given what we now know, much thanks to many here for their herculean efforts over the past decades, ordering the rifle, a "very doubtful, possible maybe". That's another discussion. I agree - shooting one that day - just doesn't wash.

Jeremy, thanks. Great stuff. Relative to Oswald going to the theatre preceding a later meet with Marina and Ruth, re a shopping trip. Seems entirely plausible. Do you take any stock in the reports that he sat serially, directly next to three or four of the patrons before quickly moving on the next? If true (I was not there as a witness!) that strikes me as odd - if he's just biding his time.

Exactly - as has been mentioned. LHO liked JFK. What would be his reason to not take the opportunity to see the POTUS pass by the TSBD and instead - just loll around inside on the first floor, eating? Oh, maybe it was his biography: former marine with access to classified U-2 intel, who, allegedly, turned defector, and having returned home, faced no legal repercussions; landed a job as a JS employee with possible access to classified info; established his bona fides as a FPCC officer/activist passing out leaflets with Banister's address; offering his help to Bringuier as a would be "soldier of fortune" to help the DRE; called a specific FBI agent after he, Ozzie, is jailed for the "street brawl"; reportedly, on more than one occasion, passed documents to FBI agents. We are familiar with the list - it could be longer. LHO was immersed in the world of intelligence and seemingly, fairly cozy (less Hosty) with the FBI Much evidence after almost six decades, indeed, factual/provable - and tons and tons more - though maybe circumstantial, quite telling - all pointing to it. Has there ever been anyone else, just 24 years old, ostensibly just an average "Joe Blow" with Oswald's history? Nothing to see folks; move along. Lee was just "off his rocker". Regardless of the depth of his knowledge of and/or his involvement (as a player) in the JFK Assassination, at a minimum, it was certainly enough that he left work within a few minutes after. Maybe you were alive and at work on 11/22/63. If you were, I'll bet you didn't leave work almost immediately, go home, change your clothes, "pack your gat", and go to the movies, in a 600 or so seat theatre with only 20 or so patrons in attendance, and serially sit down precisely next three or four people, moving on after several seconds to the next. And Oswald was quite bookish, and IMO saw himself as a bit of an intellectual. Does anyone know if he routinely went to movie matinees that featured war films? Over the past almost 60 years, I have talked to 100s of people of every age and from every walk of life, and no one did. When they heard the news report, every one of them, at the least, exchanged some brief thoughts/words of shock/grief/outrage/despair over what happened, and then went home as soon as they were able/allowed - to family or to friends to listen to the radio or watch TV. Oswald stayed in the TSBD (ala Prayer Man, I will allow that he may have stepped out for seconds, no one noticing in the excitement of the moment, before ducking right back in). Remember, the motorcade was running late. If LHO had been told a "disturbance" would happen at "X time" and he would receive a call at that specific time, and he didn't - he could've gone outside, very momentarily, to check as to why. He was on the first floor "eating and having a coke" - for a reason. My vote continues to be - waiting for that aforementioned phone call.

Tom, thanks for the reminder. It seems the guy in the jacket that day - got around quite a lot that day. I wonder if Officer Baker would've recognized him and given the same description, had he run into him again? 🙄

Gil, of course. That would be a double "ouch" for Officer Baker. But even if Mrs. Reid was mistaken (and I don't believe she was) and Oswald was some kind of "quick change artist" that day, ala Superman and somehow had put on his shirt right before the "encounter", Baker's description still does not "wash". I am curious if someone here may have an idea as to how/why Baker could've been so mistaken, writing in his own hand, "lt brown jacket", in his first day Affidavit in Fact, quite soon after the "encounter" - when his memory would still have been quite vivid. There is a stark visual difference between a man dressed in a medium brown ivy league, button down collar shirt with eight contrasting white buttons or a white tee shirt and one who is wearing a "lt brown jacket". I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there a report from someone at street level, prior to the shots, saying they saw a man in the sixth-floor window dressed in a jacket?

Gil, thanks. 'Tis difficult for me to get around this: I believe that a person's earliest description of a scene/incident to be more valid, than later recalls. From Officer Marion Baker's first day, handwritten Affidavit in Fact: " . . . . The man I saw was a white man appeared 30 years old 5 - 9 - 165 dk hair and wearing a lt brown jacket . . . ." Baker being unfamiliar with the building, thinking he was on the 3rd or 4th floor, I do get it. However, as a trained police officer, I do not buy that he could get LHO's weight description that wrong - by what, some 30 pounds? And then the "jacket". Even with a shirt being worn outside the trousers, I do not believe that it would appear to be a jacket (and no proof Oswald owned such a jacket). Baker looks at the person, very close-up (3-4 feet away), while questioning Truly, yet still describes the guy's outerwear as a jacket? First of all, Oswald's work shirt that day, to me, appears more of a medium brown. I do realize that is subjective - but How many jackets sport an Ivy League type, button down collar? And how about those fairly miniscule - for a jacket anyway - obvious, eight white buttons - 2 on the collar and six down the shirt's center, contrasted against the dark shirt fabric? Not very noticeable? According to Baker, he confronted the man and asked Truly if the guy belonged there. That scene is much more than a "fleeting glimpse". I can't buy it.

Gil, thanks. Good summation. IMO, you're on the mark. About | Media Research Center (mrc.org) And: Dem ‘talking points’ and parroting media minions raise eyebrows (bizpacreview.com) I'm sure the websites will be criticized, but one only has had to have watched, read, and listened, especially over the past 20 years, to understand there has occurred a significant change in political ideology in the country. One can discuss if it's been for o better or worse. Anyway, at some point subsequent to the 11/22/63, for those who began to doubt the WC and began their research, the question of MSM complicity in covering up the government's "Lone Nut Did it" official position seemed likely. History, IMHO, has proven them correct. Where were the legions of journalists/reporters then - investigating - when obvious doubts were raised by early researchers? Where are they now - some sixty years later? Imagine the multiple Pulitzer Prizes, accolades, publicity, book deals within its grasp - just summarily ignored. I respect your and others takes here and was not (and maybe still is) the hypothesis that in the early '60s the MSM was covering for a right-wing intelligence/military/industrial complex and therefore complicit in the coverup? Since then, I would totally agree that over the decades, there has been a more apparent MSM swing in ideology - quite leftward, in comparison. I guess my question is, why has not today's MSM not loosed legions of reporters/journalists and millions of dollars, tracking down the truth of the JFK assassination. One can only imagine the explosive, block-buster story - finally divulged after nearly 60 years. Is the MSM really thinking, "Nah, old news; nobody's interested anymore."

Ron, thanks for the reminder. Read it a couple times. Inclined to agree.

Oswald may have or may not have been Prayer Man; "jury's still out on that" - is what I gather by reading others here. If it's ever proved to have been him, then surely, "Case Closed". Is it really impossible to have been Oswald, since it appears that he was already on the TSBD's first floor and then maybe ducking out at the last moment for a quick look-see, while everyone is focused on the street/motorcade? The shots ring out, and during the chaos, Oswald, after just a few seconds and no one noticing him, quickly goes back in, especially if he was involved, even in a peripheral way - re the hypothesis that he was told the assassination attempt was just a false flag operation that was designed to fail - and then, "Aw-oh, not so much!" Relative to keeping Oswald out of sight during the shooting, could he not have been told, "Hey Oz, hang tight there in the first-floor lunch-room until such time as the motorcade passes. Then we'll call you on the house phone and let you know what happens next." Was there not some evidence that Oswald may have been the one telling the press, rushing into the TSBD after the shooting, where the phone was? Maybe the phone doesn't ring by time X (the op has been called off) - and/or Ozzie decides, "Hey, I don't want to miss seeing the prez; I'll just go out for a few seconds. They won't know. That phone ringer is pretty loud - I won't miss the call." Oswald may not have been a "super sleuth", but IMHO he was smart enough not to panic, immediately after the shooting. He was able to "act natural", collect his thoughts for a couple of minutes, and then exit the TSBD, and as has been suggested, begin the trip to meet his contact, that was prearranged - "In case something goes a little sideways, Oz. No worries: we've got your back."

Sandy, thanks. I do remember reading same, now. I will admit, rather convincing. My take is that Oswald was 'hornswoggled" that day. That morning, he may have thought he knew all there was to know - but in reality, he didn't know what he didn't know. Thus, the trip to apartment and then to the theatre, in a quest to find out what he didn't know before.

Pat, thanks - you do great work! Am I understanding that you subscribe to the second-floor lunch encounter between Baker/Truly and Oswald? Others here have presented evidence, I thought when I read it anyway, that strongly implied that said encounter never happened. It being just a concocted story to fit predetermined scenario - or a real encounter with a "someone" (never identified)- who was not LHO. Frankly, I have no idea whether either one is correct, or even another scenario was possible. I just value your take, as well as everyone else's here. All comments welcome.

Thanks, Jean Paul and Pat. So, as we've long been aware, the evidence definitely has Williams on the sixth floor, very shortly before the motorcade was to pass, enjoying a soft drink and his lunch. LHO evidently not there (unless he's "hanging out" behind some boxes, quiet as a church mouse) just conveniently "waiting in the wings" close by - or maybe he was just roaming around the first floor/sitting in the lunchroom (as reported by others), watching the elevators for anyone perhaps going up to the sixth floor, hoping the "coast was clear", when he finally got up to the "sniper's lair"? Hm-m? How could Oswald be absolutely sure Williams would not remain there to watch the motorcade? After all, there were those who watched from the fifth floor. Regardless of what Williams may or may not have said, people change their minds all the time. Also, the motorcade was also running late. Does the thought cross Ozzie's mind, "Gosh, will I have enough time to "set up" before my bud, Bonnie Ray, hauls his keister out of there? "I've got a job to do!" Of course, almost assuredly, he must have already used his dime to assemble the rifle, right? He was a master planner, no? Naturally, covering all the bases, he'd most likely be monitoring the motorcade's progress on his personal, trusty transistor radio or maybe a radio in one of the break rooms? "No worries", he thinks. "Hey, I've got this." Only upon Williams' departure, can Ozzie retrieve the MC from its hiding place, in preparation for the assassination. One cool, calm, and collected young man, he. By golly, that guy, Lee, could predict and overcome - all the possible contingencies, couldn't he?

Johnathan, Forgetting for a moment any incontrovertible evidence "Harvey and Lee" has any validity and/or that LHO had any CIA association, do you believe it was possible for him to have been, perhaps, a low-level ONI operative and/or an FBi informant? What I've always found most curious was that LHO allegedly defected, publicly stating that he was going to divulge classified information garnered during his enlistment. Other than his discharge being downgraded, Oswald appeared to have suffered no consequences, upon his return to the states - other than eventually being "overseen" by the FBI. 'Twould seem that, in the least, LHO would've immediately undergone a lengthy interrogation by some government agency - to put to rest any concerns regarding harm to national security. Maybe that was done, secretly? And is it not a matter of record that after his New Orleans Street scuffle, he requested to speak to a specific FBI agent? Also, curious that. Just thinking out loud; your observations always welcome.

And that was Jack Dougherty, correct? If so, do you see him playing any role, that day?

Quite agree.

Michael, I do understand. Regarding a specialized aptitude test - mine was administered about half-way through basic training, having only signed up for the "Administrative" portion of the four parts Air Force initial aptitude test, which also included the categories entitled - "General", "Mechanical", and "Electronics". Something in my score tipped them off the I'd make a pretty good Morse Intercept Operator - hence my eventual assignment to the USAF Security Service. Part of my post - was - implying that LHO's record did not indicate a specialized aptitude test for score for language - because such would've been evidence that in addition to his official MOS, at some point, he had also undergone language training for his eventual intelligence role. Of course, I can't prove he did - but I don't believe it to have been impossible - given what appears to be unexplained absences during his active-duty time - that he could have received some sort of intense "undercover" language training. And yes, I'm aware of the discussion on how good his Russia may or may not have been. I guess I'm leaning on the - "it was somewhat too good to have been learned by the 'Berlitz method'" side of the equation.