Tosh Plumlee

[Charles Drago]

A review of the video of the Lancer Hemming panel -- on which I trepidatiously sat -- may prove beneficial as well.

Or fail to do so.

Perhaps.

[Ron Ecker]

A review of the video of the Lancer Hemming panel -- on which I trepidatiously sat -- may prove beneficial as well.

I'm still wondering what "Godell" had to do with the assassination. (Named along with WerBell and Hemming himself by Hemming as among those who should have been arrested immediately after the murder.)

[Charles Drago]

A review of the video of the Lancer Hemming panel -- on which I trepidatiously sat -- may prove beneficial as well.

I'm still wondering what "Godell" had to do with the assassination. (Named along with WerBell and Hemming himself by Hemming as among those who should have been arrested immediately after the murder.)

Is there a transcript of the Hemming talk? WerBell was involved, I believe in providing the silencers for some of the weapons not fired from the TSBD [and those not by LHO]. Hemming was in the mix of those involved for sure - but how involved is a gordian knot, for sure.

Peter,

To my knowledge a transcript is not available. Lancer sells a DVD of such abysmally poor audio and video quality that they should be ashamed to market it.

You might google hemming panel lancer in hopes of finding John Kelin's comprehensive and emminently readable review of the (non) event.

Charles

[Terry Mauro]

Here's an article about the use of mercenaries in Afgan (the one in Southern Asia, not the one in South America ):

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...mp;ItemID=13328

"Afghan Rifts; Guns For Hire

by Conn Hallinan

July 19, 2007

The rising tide of Afghan civilian deaths has opened a rift between the U.S. and NATO's 37,000-member International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). According to NATO officials, the U.S.'s increasing use of air power has badly damaged support for the war in both Afghanistan and Europe.

Daan Everts, the senior NATO civilian in Afghanistan, says the U.S. has created 'a fallout that is negative because the collateral damage and particularly the civilian casualties are seen as unduly high, certainly by the Afghan people. This is of concern to us.'

German Defense Minister Franz Joseph Jung said, 'We have to do everything to avoid that civilians are affected. We are in talks with our American friends about this.'

The issue has split German Chancellor Angela Merkel's 'Grand Coalition.' While Merkel's Christian Democrats generally support the war, their coalition partner, the Social Democratic Party (SDP), is suddenly feeling pressure on its portside from the newly formed united Left Party. SDP leaders have come out against renewing the current mandate to deploy German troops in Afghanistan, a vote that will come sometime this fall.

The rising tide of Afghan civilian deaths-over 1,800 killed in 2007-has helped fuel a push for United Nations participation to end the conflict. Leading the drive is British Secretary of Defense, Des Browne.

In a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Browne said the solutions to narcotics, security, and establishing the rule of law are political, not military. 'An overarching campaign plan is required to develop all of these disparate strands together. It has to be a strategic plan, not just a military plan...and there is no organization better placed than the UN to take that role.'

Browne said that if the international community cannot find a political solution, 'then I say to you that we have no moral right to ask our young people to expose themselves to that danger.'

In the meantime, in spite of opposition by the Kabul government, senior U.S. military officers and European nations, the Bush Administration is forging ahead with a plan to use massive aerial spraying of the herbicide glycophate to destroy Afghanistan's opium crop.

More than 90 percent of the world's opium comes from Afghanistan, and the drug trade generates about one third of the country's gross domestic product. Projections are that this year the crop will be larger than in 2006 The Germans are so opposed to the spraying that they say they will reconsider their participation in the NATO operation if it goes forward. Many military leaders are unhappy as well. Gen. Dan K. McNeil, NATO's commander in Afghanistan, says his forces are not equipped or trained to deal with drugs. 'Eradication done improperly is counter-intuitive to running the counter-insurgency because it will alienate people and you may have more insurgent people appearing than you had before.' Many Afghans agree. According to Mirwais Yasini, a member of the Afghani parliament's Committee on Counter-Narcotics, 'Aerial eradication will maximize the antagonism against the government.'

DynCorp, a private mercenary company that has done extensive spraying of coca plants in Columbia, has been contracted to do the job. Using DynCorp is hardly a coincidence. The new U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, William Wood, oversaw the company's aerial spraying campaign in Colombia

'The U.S. is hell-bent on eradication,' Harvard University Professor Robert Rotberg, an expert on conflict resolution at the Kennedy School of Government, told the Financial Times. 'They claim it worked in Columbia and so it will work in Afghanistan. It is not clear to anyone it worked in Columbia.'

Actually, it is quite clear. Coca acreage in Columbia increased 9 percent in 2006, following a 26 percent increase in 2005. Coca acreage is the same today as it was when the spraying campaign began in 2001.

Have gun, will travel?

Widespread use of mercenaries in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Latin America by the Bush Administration has drawn the attention of the United Nations Working Group on the Use of Mercenaries, according to upsidedownworld.com.

'We have observed that in some cases the employees of private military and security companies enjoy an immunity which can easily become impunity,' says Jose Luis Gomez del Pardo, chair of the UN Working Group, 'implying that some states may contract these companies in order to avoid direct legal responsibilities.'

The Working Group found that mercenaries were recruited from throughout Latin America and then flown to Ecuador to train at the huge U.S. base at Manta. Others were trained in Honduras at a former training camp used during the Reagan Administration's war against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

According to the Working Group, mercenaries working for a subsidiary of an Illinois-based company, Your Solutions Inc., suffered 'irregularities in contracts, harsh working conditions, wages partially paid or unpaid, ill-treatment and isolation and lack of basic necessities such as medical treatment and sanitation.' A major reason for using private security companies is that they are not subject to Congressional oversight."...

****************************************************************************

"DynCorp, a private mercenary company that has done extensive spraying of coca plants in Columbia, has been contracted to do the job. Using DynCorp is hardly a coincidence. The new U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, William Wood, oversaw the company's aerial spraying campaign in Colombia

'The U.S. is hell-bent on eradication,' Harvard University Professor Robert Rotberg, an expert on conflict resolution at the Kennedy School of Government, told the Financial Times. 'They claim it worked in Columbia and so it will work in Afghanistan. It is not clear to anyone it worked in Columbia.'

Actually, it is quite clear. Coca acreage in Columbia increased 9 percent in 2006, following a 26 percent increase in 2005. Coca acreage is the same today as it was when the spraying campaign began in 2001."

So, who made these axxholes King Of The World?

"We have observed that in some cases the employees of private military and security companies enjoy an immunity which can easily become impunity,' says Jose Luis Gomez del Pardo, chair of the UN Working Group, 'implying that some states may contract these companies in order to avoid direct legal responsibilities.'

The Working Group found that mercenaries were recruited from throughout Latin America and then flown to Ecuador to train at the huge U.S. base at Manta. Others were trained in Honduras at a former training camp used during the Reagan Administration's war against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

According to the Working Group, mercenaries working for a subsidiary of an Illinois-based company, Your Solutions Inc., suffered 'irregularities in contracts, harsh working conditions, wages partially paid or unpaid, ill-treatment and isolation and lack of basic necessities such as medical treatment and sanitation.' A major reason for using private security companies is that they are not subject to Congressional oversight."..."

And who, in the goddamned blue blazes of hell, does the United States of America think they are? No! Who in the goddamned blue blazes of hell does the fascist Bush administration, voted into power by a bunch of pea-brained, sniveling, "But, he promised us he wouldn't raise our taxes." And/or, "We can maintain our Christian superiority...Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition..." All while backing a dirty war over an imaginary stash of "weapons of mass destruction," which BTW, never did seem to materialize. "But, he's our president, right or wrong!" [Pardon me while I'll wretch and puke]. This kind of pinhead, knee-jerk, idiocy-bordering-on-imbecilic, sheeple-talk, along with the undying pledge of allegiance of a vindictive, moronic, greed-driven, mendacious electorate, is what put us into this, "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive..."

How does it feel to be a part of such a mean-spirited, callous, blood-thirsty, selfish, tyrannical, dictatorial autocracy, such as the one presently proliferating in the United State of America. Because, it sure in hell ain't a democracy. I do mean to tell ya.

SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Are we going to let these bastards continue getting away with this? I'd rather go down in a blaze of glory than stand by for one minute more, forced to watch this carnage. This cuts and divides my family right down to the very core. Why? Because I can't fathom why a member of my family, a supposedly reasonable and intelligent human being, aside from being my own flesh and blood, would sell his soul to the devil at the crossroads. I no longer answer my brother's e-mails since he voted for Bush. And, why did he vote for Bush? Because he was afraid that his "right to bear arms" would be taken away by the Democrats. Hey, if "Freeway Ricky," the gangs of South Central, and the Locos en Los Barrios can continue to remain armed and dangerous in the "police" state of California, so can any other citizen who desires to do so. Because, that's what it will all eventually come down to. Right or wrong, Mr. G.W. Pinhead, along with the real rogues running the show: Rove, the Lying Rat-Out, and Cheney, the Genocidal Maniac.

And, you mean to tell me they had the cojones to subpoena Michael Moore?

My Country 'Tis 0f Thee, sweet land of Germany...Of thee I sing.

[Terry Mauro]

Duplicate post deleted by T. Mauro on 7-29-07 at 14:43 hrs PDT

Edited July 28, 2007 by Terry Mauro

[Terry Mauro]

And who, in the goddamned blue blazes of hell, does the United States of America think they are? No! Who in the goddamned blue blazes of hell does the fascist Bush administration, voted into power by a bunch of pea-brained, sniveling, "But, he promised us he wouldn't raise our taxes." And/or, "We can maintain our Christian superiority...Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition..." All while backing a dirty war over an imaginary stash of "weapons of mass destruction," which BTW, never did seem to materialize. "But, he's our president, right or wrong!" [Pardon me while I'll wretch and puke]. This kind of pinhead, knee-jerk, idiocy-bordering-on-imbecilic, sheeple-talk, along with the undying pledge of allegiance of a vindictive, moronic, greed-driven, mendacious electorate, is what put us into this, "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive..."

How does it feel to be a part of such a mean-spirited, callous, blood-thirsty, selfish, tyrannical, dictatorial autocracy, such as the one presently proliferating in the United State of America. Because, it sure in hell ain't a democracy. I do mean to tell ya.

SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Are we going to let these bastards continue getting away with this? I'd rather go down in a blaze of glory than stand by for one minute more, forced to watch this carnage. This cuts and divides my family right down to the very core. Why? Because I can't fathom why a member of my family, a supposedly reasonable and intelligent human being, aside from being my own flesh and blood, would sell his soul to the devil at the crossroads. I no longer answer my brother's e-mails since he voted for Bush. And, why did he vote for Bush? Because he was afraid that his "right to bear arms" would be taken away by the Democrats. Hey, if "Freeway Ricky," the gangs of South Central, and the Locos en Los Barrios can continue to remain armed and dangerous in the "police" state of California, so can any other citizen who desires to do so. Because, that's what it will all eventually come down to. Right or wrong, Mr. G.W. Pinhead, along with the real rogues running the show: Rove, the Lying Rat-Out, and Cheney, the Genocidal Maniac.

And, you mean to tell me they had the cojones to subpoena Michael Moore?

My Country 'Tis 0f Thee, sweet land of Germany...Of thee I sing.

Said like a REAL concerned Patriot! If we don't do something about what is going down [and I do not mean 'voting' every four years in pre-rigged elections] we will soon have lost the chance to EVER recover the Nation...we've already lost the Nation.

********************************************************************************

"...we will soon have lost the chance to EVER recover the Nation...we've already lost the Nation."

The only thing left to do will be, "Lock, load, and take that next hill." All on U.S. soil, no less. Where it actually should take place, instead of continually wreaking havoc all over the rest of the globe. The problem is with "us" as in, "We have met the enemy and they are U.S.," not the other way around.

[William Kelly]

So, is Tosh dead or alive?

I would think that if a plane crashed in either South America or Afghn with two Americans in it, we would have heard about it by now.

BK

[Myra Bronstein]

So, is Tosh dead or alive?

I would think that if a plane crashed in either South America or Afghn with two Americans in it, we would have heard about it by now.

BK

My own view is that it was Tosh who posted his own obituary. I suspect this was triggered by the way members responded to the death of Tim Carroll. I suppose it is most people's fantasy to find out how people respond to news of our death.

I think that's a very plausible theory.

The ultimate covert act.

I would think so too.

I'm upgrading John's theory from plausible to likely.

[Denis Pointing]

So, is Tosh dead or alive?

I would think that if a plane crashed in either South America or Afghn with two Americans in it, we would have heard about it by now.

BK

Bill, To be 'fair', not necessarily, if it were a covert mission and could be kept quiet...but my own current feeling [with quite a lot of sadness and heavy heart] coincides with John's hunch that Tosh himself in a rather sloppy post tested out his own premature demise. Tosh, if you're out there I hope you'll soon invent a equally creative return and join us in pursuing the truth. The fact is we don't know for sure. I still am awaiting one more backchannel bit of information, but 

none so far have turned up any confirmation - only that he is not answering his phone or message machine at this time. There are other scenarios also possible - such as foul play and the foul players having posted...but I don't want to broaden the mystery and possibilities. If I hear more, I'll post. Tosh, can you confirm or deny the info on this post? You are wanted alive, rather than dead...and I hope, for one, you still are [alive].Peter

Peter, Is it really likely, in your opinion, that Tosh would be given a covert mission considering his having 'spilled the beans' on past covert missions. would he still be trusted?

[Denis Pointing]

So, is Tosh dead or alive?

I would think that if a plane crashed in either South America or Afghn with two Americans in it, we would have heard about it by now.

BK

Bill, To be 'fair', not necessarily, if it were a covert mission and could be kept quiet...but my own current feeling [with quite a lot of sadness and heavy heart] coincides with John's hunch that Tosh himself in a rather sloppy post tested out his own premature demise. Tosh, if you're out there I hope you'll soon invent a equally creative return and join us in pursuing the truth. The fact is we don't know for sure. I still am awaiting one more backchannel bit of information, but 

none so far have turned up any confirmation - only that he is not answering his phone or message machine at this time. There are other scenarios also possible - such as foul play and the foul players having posted...but I don't want to broaden the mystery and possibilities. If I hear more, I'll post. Tosh, can you confirm or deny the info on this post? You are wanted alive, rather than dead...and I hope, for one, you still are [alive].Peter

Peter, Is it really likely, in your opinion, that Tosh would be given a covert mission considering his having 'spilled the beans' on past covert missions. would he still be trusted?

I know that Tosh Plumlee has been flying missions that people not connected or formerly connected to intelligence would be asked to nor allowed to fly in the past years. Lets leave it at that. I believe your answer is basicly, yes and as to 'spilling the beans' that would take a book.....I've not the time.....some were spilled, some not and those that offer him jobs are not a monolith. The world, even the covert world is very complex. I'll leave it at that. There are people from his past who are not upset at him and would gladly offer him a job. Others may be upset at some he's said. As I said, life is complex.

O.K Peter, Ill accept that answer and ask no further, Thanks.

[John Bockmon]

So, is Tosh dead or alive?

I would think that if a plane crashed in either South America or Afghn with two Americans in it, we would have heard about it by now.

BK

Bill, To be 'fair', not necessarily, if it were a covert mission and could be kept quiet...but my own current feeling [with quite a lot of sadness and heavy heart] coincides with John's hunch that Tosh himself in a rather sloppy post tested out his own premature demise. Tosh, if you're out there I hope you'll soon invent a equally creative return and join us in pursuing the truth. The fact is we don't know for sure. I still am awaiting one more backchannel bit of information, but 

none so far have turned up any confirmation - only that he is not answering his phone or message machine at this time. There are other scenarios also possible - such as foul play and the foul players having posted...but I don't want to broaden the mystery and possibilities. If I hear more, I'll post. Tosh, can you confirm or deny the info on this post? You are wanted alive, rather than dead...and I hope, for one, you still are [alive].Peter

Peter, Is it really likely, in your opinion, that Tosh would be given a covert mission considering his having 'spilled the beans' on past covert missions. would he still be trusted?

I know that Tosh Plumlee has been flying missions that people not connected or formerly connected to intelligence would be asked to nor allowed to fly in the past years. Lets leave it at that. I believe your answer is basicly, yes and as to 'spilling the beans' that would take a book.....I've not the time.....some were spilled, some not and those that offer him jobs are not a monolith. The world, even the covert world is very complex. I'll leave it at that. There are people from his past who are not upset at him and would gladly offer him a job. Others may be upset at some he's said. As I said, life is complex.

O.K Peter, Ill accept that answer and ask no further, Thanks.

Peter,

Is there any new info on the dissapearance of Tosh? Have you heard anything from his family of friends that you can relay to us?

Johnn

[Shanet Clark]

I used to correspond with Tosh thru emails at this EdForum

He is an old CIA mercenary pilot with a story to tell about

johnny roselli and dallas 1963........he claims to have been

in DaLLAS on november 22 and he was posted with SERGIO who he

declines to Identify on the far side of Houston and Main looking

back at the grassy knoll and TSBD ........sent there as a CIA observer/pilot

to help ABORT a presidential assassination/

he went back to Miami to report to his boss Wm Harvey at JM/WAVE cia station.........

Later in Pheonix AZ he filed detailed FBI complaints about ROSELLI and the US govt.

He is most famous as a whistleblower on IRAN CONTRA where as a pilot involved

he blew the whistle and testified to the SENATE committee under JOHN KERRY........

The anomaly betweent the HEADLINE about Tosh dying in SOUTH AMERICA

and the text referring to AFGHAN (sic) is possibly explained by the fact

that he had emailed many of us that he was going to do work in South America

helicopter support for wireless telecommunications systems, I think he said.............

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>

[Myra Bronstein]

I used to correspond with Tosh thru emails at this EdForum

He is an old CIA mercenary pilot with a story to tell about

johnny roselli and dallas 1963........he claims to have been

in DaLLAS on november 22 and he was posted with SERGIO who he

declines to Identify on the far side of Houston and Main looking

back at the grassy knoll and TSBD ........sent there as a CIA observer/pilot

to help ABORT a presidential assassination/

he went back to Miami to report to his boss Wm Harvey at JM/WAVE cia station.........

...

Tosh's boss was Wm Harvey!?

The CIA thug who "hated Bobby Kennedy with a purple passion"...

The laison between the CIA & mob pal Roselli--a supposed passenger on Tosh's "abort" flight into Dallas...

[Shanet Clark]

This is Tosh's last post, July 12:

it is very oblique and disturbing, I think:

TOPIC

Roselli and KENCOM, "Keep Pushing and you...."

William Plumlee

post Jul 12 2007, 04:47 PM

Advanced Member

Posts: 533

Joined: 11-October 04

Member No.: 1680

Thanks for the E mail. I got your criptic message and this is my anwser to you. I know you read this form. "Go blow wind". I will post what I like and whover you are and who you work for can jump in the lake. You email has been turned over to the authorities. This message is for you.

Here is something else for you to ponder. !n 1976 I told a Senate Investigator about details of KEN-COM; remember? Yes JFK and RFK were in process of assassination of Castro.... remember? Do you and Yours want to go there... well just keep up the threats and BINGO.... down the chutes for you boys.

KEN-COM Remember? Now we will go into that very soon... Do you want to stop me... then come out of the shadows and face me one on one. How about details with names on TF-W Section C? Would you like that? How about the A- holes you work for? Would they like that? Send me another one of your "criptic "threating emails. I have not even started releasing classified information yet, but I am going to. What are you going to do about it? Lets get into the "Drug War of the 80's.... would you and yours like that. How about the Savings and Loan of the 80's. Yes... you and yours go suck an egg... I do what I want. I know the game.

To the Forum. I am sorry for this type of message, but since some have seen fit to threaten me secretly after my postings of recent, I decided to respond public.... my message to you....Take your best shot... xxxxx.

P.S Since you say I will be required by order to face a Senate Hearing... I say to you BS... I will not go... Ex Priv... seems to work for you guys... I think I will try it... See You At The Hearings...., but you will be there alone flogging your thumb.

[J. William King]

Actually, this was Tosh's last post, done on July 15th.....

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William Plumlee

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Posted on: Jul 15 2007, 07:15 PM

(Shanet Clark @ Jul 11 2007, 08:43 PM) *

John Simkins:

Did you notice the MOCKINGBIRD reference in the family jewels that were

recently de-classified? The CIA made it appear that the term project mockingbird

only applied to a narrow pair of CIA investigations of journalists as ordered

by President Kennedy in 1963..................

a limited hang out and spin doctored

english, to de classify only that fleeting element in the program

called MOCKINGBIRD

FWIW: KEN-COM was the secret committee which JFK and RFK set up and one of the operations used the cut out code word "Mockingbird". It was reference in secret reports to JFK and the NSC's staff from the CIA. Mockingbird was inserted as a coded reference by the CIA when the Church Committee first found out about an alleged secret team operating within the affairs of the White House and the WH Situation Room. This was a specialized ultra secret covert team attached to KEN-COM by US military through the Pentagon.

Ken-Com was JFK's and RFK's little private secret. Perhaps they launched a few private and secret wars, a " Paturian (sp) Guard" type operation. Most elements within the CIA sections did not know about this Ken-COM Committee until some years after Watergate. Point being Mockingbird was part of KenCom. Its true operational connection to the WH is still a tightly held secret. The CIA acted as support for the Ken-Com operations and worked closely with Task Force W and other OMC operations embedded within CIA's secret "specialized" operational teams.

Ask Ask Jim Marrs, Peter Lemkin, and John Stockwell, about what they remember about Ken Com,why and how it came into being. Perhaps they would care to give their views and thoughts on this to the forum members.

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Also, this was posted on July 5th by Tosh:

Many times I have come forward and tried tgo help researchers only to be call many names even an assin. Documentation has been provided and when I have tried to produce additional information and documentation I am blocked by those who seem to have all the ansxwers. Documentation is out there forover forty years. I can not help anymore. I just check the forms "xxxxx" just to see how far off the martk this investigation is really in the toilet and what I am derogatory names I am called. So be it.. I see it as the research comunity as their loss... not mind... I have learned a lot these past few years.... enough to know I will not go there again... I wish you the best..... It is now for those in the past that I have shared my information and documentation with to step forward and come to tyhe plate.... the best to all of you. Sorry it did not work out for you.... Can'tbe said I did not gtry..... Have a good day.... T

JWK

Edited July 31, 2007 by J. William King