Dr. Costella's smoking gun:

[Chris Davidson]

Pre 313: These have nothing to do directly with the limo.

In Muchmore, there are 5 lead cycle cops that turn from Main onto Houston. 3 in alignment, followed by 2.

In Zapruder, we see the last of the lead cycles in front, followed by the the trailing 2. My guess is the other 2 lead cycles are already farther down Elm. (Total of 5 still).

Post 313:

In Zapruder, no cycles ahead of the limo.

In Nix, no cycles ahead as the limo takes off and Nix's film ends down Elm.

In Bell, 1 cycle on the southside of Elm, as the Limo is near the underpass and QM passes the southside cycle. 3 cycles are

in their position as we see them in McIntire, also.

In Daniels, we see the cycle that we see in Bell.

In McIntire, we see the 3 that are in Bell, the 1 on the south side of Elm in Bell, and another on the North side.

I believe Chaney would have to be this one on the North side in McIntire, for this to pan out.

Lumpkin says " then Chaney rode UP to Curry" and we were still STOPPED at that time.

Sounds like the McIntire photo starts to depict this.

Chaney on his way up to Curry with Lumpkin and the other two waiting.

Of course this has to happen after everyone has passed the underpass.

Any photos of the limo/QM/Curry car stopped after the underpass to give Chaney time to catch up?

Otherwise the story is hogwash or the photos are wrong. imo

chris

Edited December 13, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Jack wrote

[...]

Hickey with the AK47, two on the running boards and two in the front.

Where are the other four?

Jack

I think you meant to say a M-16.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

The shift leader, Emory Roberts, had instructed me to take control of the AR-I5 rifle whenever I was riding in 679X

At the end of the last report I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear. At this point the cars were passing under the over-pass and as a result we had left the scene of the shooting. I kept the AR 15 rifle ready as we proceeded at a high rate of speed to the hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

[Wim Dankbaar]

Craig Lamson,

Don't know who you are, but from what I read from you thusfar, we are pretty much on the same wavelength

Wim

[Craig Lamson]

Craig Lamson,

Don't know who you are, but from what I read from you thusfar, we are pretty much on the same wavelength

Wim

I'm now sure I have a 'wavelength'

This is who I am.:

www.infocusinc.net

[Frank Caramelli]

Jack........

B..

Well Jack there are 7 motorcycles in that image....you think Chaney just MIGHT be one of them?

SEVEN?

Seven....

Show us. Please.

Behind the Queen Mary...

Hello Craig;

Great shot there of the overpass. It certainly doesn't look like anyone's going 80 mph, at least not yet. Shouldn't Dan Rather be in this shot? Got any others in the same area? This is by far the best shot I've seen of the exit from Dealey.

All the best;

Frank

[Craig Lamson]

Hello Craig;

Great shot there of the overpass. It certainly doesn't look like anyone's going 80 mph, at least not yet. Shouldn't Dan Rather be in this shot? Got any others in the same area? This is by far the best shot I've seen of the exit from Dealey.

All the best;

Frank

I found this one at James Richards site.

[Bernice Moore]

Here are the two large McIntire photos....

for all.....

B........

[Antti Hynonen]

Who was in the follow-up car (QM) in the back seats? Was Dave Powers there?

[Wim Dankbaar]

I hope John will add to this thread, now that he has "released" his smoking gun.

In case you did not hear him explain it on Dr. Jim's Dynamic Duo internet radio

show last nght, he presents UNIMPEACHABLE WITNESSES (police chief, secret

service chief, policemen, etc) who describe an innocuous event (at the time) all

verifying that MOTORCOP CHENEY IMMEDIATELY RODE FORWARD IN THE

MOTORCADE TO INFORM THOSE IN THE LEAD CAR OF THE SHOOTING.

Extant films and photos DO NOT SHOW CHENEY GOING FORWARD as described.

There is no reason for anyone to lie about Cheney's ride, THEREFORE THE FILMS

AND PHOTOS ARE NECESSARILY FORGED. All describe the actions of Cheney

very consistently and believeably.

Any jury in the world would accept this testimony over questionable photos.

Jack

This the same logic as used hereunder:

Many witnesses recall the car came to a full stop. No film (Zapruder, Muchmore, Nix, Hughes) shows the car come to a stop. THEREFORE THE FILMS AND PHOTOS ARE NECESSARILY FORGED!

Sounds familiar? In effect I am asked to accept that some eyewitnesses are more reliable than 4 films.

Wim

[David G. Healy]

I hope John will add to this thread, now that he has "released" his smoking gun.

In case you did not hear him explain it on Dr. Jim's Dynamic Duo internet radio

show last nght, he presents UNIMPEACHABLE WITNESSES (police chief, secret

service chief, policemen, etc) who describe an innocuous event (at the time) all

verifying that MOTORCOP CHENEY IMMEDIATELY RODE FORWARD IN THE

MOTORCADE TO INFORM THOSE IN THE LEAD CAR OF THE SHOOTING.

Extant films and photos DO NOT SHOW CHENEY GOING FORWARD as described.

There is no reason for anyone to lie about Cheney's ride, THEREFORE THE FILMS

AND PHOTOS ARE NECESSARILY FORGED. All describe the actions of Cheney

very consistently and believeably.

Any jury in the world would accept this testimony over questionable photos.

Jack

This the same logic as used hereunder:

Many witnesses recall the car came to a full stop. No film (Zapruder, Muchmore, Nix, Hughes) shows the car come to a stop. THEREFORE THE FILMS AND PHOTOS ARE NECESSARILY FORGED!

Sounds familiar? In effect I am asked to accept that some eyewitnesses are more reliable than 4 films.

Wim

you say the film are reliable?

[Jack White]

Jack wrote

[...]

Hickey with the AK47, two on the running boards and two in the front.

Where are the other four?

Jack

I think you meant to say a M-16.

You are correct, of course. Memory lapse.

Jack

[Paul Rigby]

For the benefit of those without the Richard Trask book cited by John Costella, here is the relevant extract:

That Day in Dallas: The Photographers Capture on Film The Day President Kennedy Died (Danvers, Mass: Yeoman Press, expanded edition, 2000), p.115 & p.119:

At about this time Bill Lord of ABC News did a brief interview of Chaney, recording his activities for a broadcast over WFAA television. Chaney recalled of the motorcade incident:

"I was riding on the right rear fender. We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15 to 20 miles per hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and, uh, I looked back over to the left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the – to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he had been hit and we’re going to have to move out. [The shot,] it was back over my right shoulder” (24).”

(24) Bill Lord interview of James Chaney for WFAA-TV, 11/22/63.

Hargis confirms Chaney in early newspaper interview:

“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:

“We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President’s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.

When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

Splattered With Blood

“The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.

As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.

Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.

Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.

And They Took Off

“Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that the President had been shot.”

[Pat Speer]

Has anyone zoomed in on the sixth floor windows in McIntyre? The windows look a bit irregular. You don't suppose anyone was looking out on his handiwork, do you?

[Jack White]

Pre 313: These have nothing to do directly with the limo.

In Muchmore, there are 5 lead cycle cops that turn from Main onto Houston. 3 in alignment, followed by 2.

In Zapruder, we see the last of the lead cycles in front, followed by the the trailing 2. My guess is the other 2 lead cycles are already farther down Elm. (Total of 5 still).

Post 313:

In Zapruder, no cycles ahead of the limo.

In Nix, no cycles ahead as the limo takes off and Nix's film ends down Elm.

In Bell, 1 cycle on the southside of Elm, as the Limo is near the underpass and QM passes the southside cycle. 3 cycles are

in their position as we see them in McIntire, also.

In Daniels, we see the cycle that we see in Bell.

In McIntire, we see the 3 that are in Bell, the 1 on the south side of Elm in Bell, and another on the North side.

I believe Chaney would have to be this one on the North side in McIntire, for this to pan out.

Lumpkin says " then Chaney rode UP to Curry" and we were still STOPPED at that time.

Sounds like the McIntire photo starts to depict this.

Chaney on his way up to Curry with Lumpkin and the other two waiting.

Of course this has to happen after everyone has passed the underpass.

Any photos of the limo/QM/Curry car stopped after the underpass to give Chaney time to catch up?

Otherwise the story is hogwash or the photos are wrong. imo

chris

Chris...the premise is that THE FILMS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO REMOVE THINGS.

Therefore, careful listing of what the films show is interesting but not helpful in

studying the premise. The films do not depict what happened, but only conform

to the official story.

The premise proposes that the films (Zapruder, Nix, any others):

1. Remove some of the lead motorcycles turning onto Elm.

2. Remove lead car (Curry et al) turning onto Elm.

3. Remove the limo's wide turn turning onto Elm.

4. Remove the limo's initial sequence on Elm.

5. Remove information about the gunshots.

6. Remove Hill and Moorman in the street.

7. Remove the limo stop and reacceleration.

8. Remove Chaney's accelleration to the lead car.

9. Remove the location of the lead car during shooting.

10. Remove post shooting activity.

Therefore, if any or all of the above took place, AS MANY TESTIFIED,

then studying WHAT REMAINS does not tell us what really happened.

Jack

[Jack White]

Pre 313: These have nothing to do directly with the limo.

In Muchmore, there are 5 lead cycle cops that turn from Main onto Houston. 3 in alignment, followed by 2.

In Zapruder, we see the last of the lead cycles in front, followed by the the trailing 2. My guess is the other 2 lead cycles are already farther down Elm. (Total of 5 still).

Post 313:

In Zapruder, no cycles ahead of the limo.

In Nix, no cycles ahead as the limo takes off and Nix's film ends down Elm.

In Bell, 1 cycle on the southside of Elm, as the Limo is near the underpass and QM passes the southside cycle. 3 cycles are

in their position as we see them in McIntire, also.

In Daniels, we see the cycle that we see in Bell.

In McIntire, we see the 3 that are in Bell, the 1 on the south side of Elm in Bell, and another on the North side.

I believe Chaney would have to be this one on the North side in McIntire, for this to pan out.

Lumpkin says " then Chaney rode UP to Curry" and we were still STOPPED at that time.

Sounds like the McIntire photo starts to depict this.

Chaney on his way up to Curry with Lumpkin and the other two waiting.

Of course this has to happen after everyone has passed the underpass.

Any photos of the limo/QM/Curry car stopped after the underpass to give Chaney time to catch up?

Otherwise the story is hogwash or the photos are wrong. imo

chris

Chris...the premise is that THE FILMS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO REMOVE THINGS.

Therefore, careful listing of what the films DO show is interesting but not helpful in

studying the premise. The films do not depict what happened, but only conform

to the official story.

The premise proposes that the films (Zapruder, Nix, any others):

1. Remove some of the lead motorcycles turning onto Elm.

2. Remove lead car (Curry et al) turning onto Elm.

3. Remove the limo's wide turn turning onto Elm.

4. Remove the limo's initial sequence on Elm.

5. Remove information about the gunshots.

6. Remove Hill and Moorman in the street.

7. Remove the limo stop and reacceleration.

8. Remove Chaney's accelleration to the lead car.

9. Remove the location of the lead car during shooting.

10. Remove post shooting activity.

Therefore, if any or all of the above took place, AS MANY TESTIFIED,

then studying WHAT REMAINS does not tell us what really happened.

Jack