Did Zapruder take "the Zapruder film"?

[Craig Lamson]

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

[David G. Healy]

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

[Jack White]

Chris...this may be the most important image you posted. It shows a man STANDING IN THE BILL NEWMAN

position. Please consider doing a Zframe overlay of this image to show where Newman would appear in

Zapruder.

I have long contended that REMOVING THE NEWMANS was the reason for the raising of the Z frames.

It is one thing to make a composite of the foreground limo and the above the curb grass.

It complicates alteration immensely to also add a FOREGROUND ingredient like the Newman family.

So they cropped them out.

Thanks for your good work.

Jack

[Craig Lamson]

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

Oh come on now Healy, is the the best you can do? Advertising is in a bit of a pinch right now. HECK JWT just closed shop in Chicago, first opened in 1891. Leisure time abounds...No worries, I'm doing just fine.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Craig Lamson

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Not sure what you meant by the link, so it looks like we both don't know what in the hell you are ever talking about.

Hesters - grainy film???

The FBI had the car traveling at a rate of about 11" per Zapruder film frame.

[Bill Miller]

Chris...this may be the most important image you posted. It shows a man STANDING IN THE BILL NEWMAN

position. Please consider doing a Zframe overlay of this image to show where Newman would appear in

Zapruder.

I have long contended that REMOVING THE NEWMANS was the reason for the raising of the Z frames.

It is one thing to make a composite of the foreground limo and the above the curb grass.

It complicates alteration immensely to also add a FOREGROUND ingredient like the Newman family.

So they cropped them out.

Thanks for your good work.

Jack

Let me see if I have this straight ... you want to believe that so much alteration was done on the Zapruder film with a line of people along the north side of Elm Street because they are not moving around enough to suit you - that the film alterers were able to take Hill and Moorman from the street and place them on the grass and somehow did a beautiful job of creating lower legs that would have been blocked from view if they had been in the street ... but these film alterers felt it necessary to remove the Newman's so to make the alteration easier - please tell me that I am having a bad dream!

Sweet mother of God ... did the critical thinker (Fetzer) give his blessing to that nonsense??? All I can say is that it is a good thing that inventing such ridiculous poorly thought out claims isn't a hangable offense.

[Bill Miller]

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

David, please do not get distracted for we need you to finish that request to the NARA to allow you to examine the Zapruder film so to end this alteration debate once and for all. Your spending all day on these JFK assassination related boards so to post such say-nothing idiocy isn't going to get the job done, son. Get with the varsity ... run with the big dogs ... or what ever way you like to say it, just bottle the antics and get that request written or else people might start thinking that you are just some bozo trying to run a fraud as to you really being serious about the things you have posted in the past.

[Chris Davidson]

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Not sure what you meant by the link, so it looks like we both don't know what in the hell you are ever talking about.

Hesters - grainy film???

The FBI had the car traveling at a rate of about 11" per Zapruder film frame.

Refresher course for Bill.

Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.

chris

[Bill Miller]

Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.

chris

I don't get it... What I see is exactly what Wiegman's film showed and that was Hester hurrying over to the colonnade presumably so to look out the windows. The Bell film captures Hester just before he got off the ground and someone walking into the colonnade area. The Wiegman film is shot at a different angle, thus the walking man isn't visible in Wiegman's film. So what don't you understand?

Edited April 9, 2009 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Zapruder was so inept at filming, even with the limo traveling at approx 10 mph, right in front of him, this is where it ends up within the frame,compared to cars traveling at approx 40 mph.

Now, move those limo participants into their approx proper location.

Much better!!!! Getting them closer to center frame. A little more realistic.

The SUV which rides higher than the limo, would put the limo occupants even closer to center frame.

chris

Two things ... do you feel that your film capture is scaled to match the Zapruder frame?

And do you know that the 'X' on the street is too far east by a foot or so. Groden pointed this out to some time ago ... he may even be the one who marked the street in the first place.

[Bill Miller]

I'm pretty sure the residents of Zimbabwe recognize Elm St. goes downhill.

You encourage others to recreate examples for comparison, yet when the result is starkly different, you write it off as "filmed by an amateur".

Please show us your pedestal footage.

In fact, the offer extends to everyone.

Let's see what other amateur/ even professional results look like.

And while we're waiting, I'll provide them with another comparison example(from the pedestal) of a car traveling downhill.

A Z difference of 6 degrees CCW at this point.

Follow that curbline.

chris

The assassination films show Zapruder as he turned with the limo (not bad for being made of rubber as Fetzer has suggested). It appears to me that Zapruder ued the curb-line as a guide.

[Chris Davidson]

Frames for Bill.

No,

I did not scale my frames.

My comparison consists of both frames captured as scaled 4/3.

Then had to change the aspect ratio on my frame only to: 110W x 105 H to fit existing Z frame.

In this case, I'm more concerned about the relationship between sprocket holes to main frame.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

Another one for positioning.

chris

[David G. Healy]

...

Let me see if I have this straight ... you want to believe that so much alteration was done on the Zapruder film with a line of people along the north side of Elm Street because they are not moving around enough to suit you - that the film alterers were able to take Hill and Moorman from the street and place them on the grass and somehow did a beautiful job of creating lower legs that would have been blocked from view if they had been in the street ... but these film alterers felt it necessary to remove the Newman's so to make the alteration easier - please tell me that I am having a bad dream!

Sweet mother of God ... did the critical thinker (Fetzer) give his blessing to that nonsense??? All I can say is that it is a good thing that inventing such ridiculous poorly thought out claims isn't a hangable offense.

son, this entire topic has given you new meaning in life, who are you kidding, your having a bad dream..... LMFAO! Now, as far as getting anything straight, forget it...... when one has no conception at all as to what film matte making and printing entails or what optical film and aerial printing entails you get that dazed look. For that matter all Lone uts on this and other boards suffer the same....Just why do you think I withdrew my recommendation for your employment at Adobe Systems... You'd be laughed right out of the bldg.....

Ahhhh, stifle opinion, the latest Lone Nut scourge, what a bane you are to this community. Do your parents know where you are, son? Lamson get over here! We need the Lone Nut Varsity.... for every step you take forward, Miller drags your rear-end back about 5, we want an enlightening debate.....

[Bill Miller]

Now, as far as getting anything straight, forget it...... when one has no conception at all as to what film matte making and printing entails or what optical film and aerial printing entails you get that dazed look.

Well that explains your drunken dufus look. Is there anyone with compositing experience who has said the assassination films could have all been altered without forensic testing being able to detect it???

Bill Miller