Jump to content
The Education Forum

Did Zapruder take "the Zapruder film"?


Guest James H. Fetzer
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 187
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Of course aside from destroying whatever credibility you might have had, your entire study and conclusion were just meaningless. You proved that two photographers can shoot a scene with the camera in different rotations to level.

Craig,

I don't think Chris is purposely altering stuff ... I just think he doesn't know enough about what in the hell he is doing.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess we need to know what your definition of altered is.

The process of converting 8mm film to a digital image is an alteration.

Which is exactly what was done in this case.

Fact: Chris filmed from pedestal with B/H 414 camera.

Fact: Chris had film developed by "Dwayne's Photo" in Parsons, Kansas. One of the few I could find in the U.S that still develops 8mm film, back in 2004.

Fact: Chris had it converted to DVD by "SunRay Video" in San Diego, CA. http://www.sunrayvideo.com/film_transfer.htm

Fact: Chris imports the VOB files from the DVD into a movie player (Quicktime, etc.etc).

Fact: Chris either exports or screen captures individual frames to post on the forum.

He does not perform interframe rotations.

Perhaps a step in the 8mm to digital format transfer is causing the effects which Craig refers too.

Otherwise, you probably believe I shaved about 1/8 of an inch off the top sprocket hole, which has nothing to do with the street/cars.

chris

Altered is 8mm frames that are so warped in MANY directions they no longer resemble accurate 8mm frames....

The files are altered from the original format of the film..... badly They belong to Davidson. He is responsible for the content. He spends his free time looking for oddities in the JFK films and photos yet can't see the glaring errors in his own files...and argues there are no errors...makes a guy go HUH?

You images, your work, your posts...you are reponsible for the ALTERED content, pure and simple.

Your frames have nothing to do with content and framing of the Zapruder film. You conclusion was badly formed.

Edited by Craig Lamson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

chris.jpg

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

chris.jpg

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris...this may be the most important image you posted. It shows a man STANDING IN THE BILL NEWMAN

position. Please consider doing a Zframe overlay of this image to show where Newman would appear in

Zapruder.

I have long contended that REMOVING THE NEWMANS was the reason for the raising of the Z frames.

It is one thing to make a composite of the foreground limo and the above the curb grass.

It complicates alteration immensely to also add a FOREGROUND ingredient like the Newman family.

So they cropped them out.

Thanks for your good work.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

Can you re-post your hypothesis, please? I've looked at your images and I'm not quite sure what the point is.

Frank,

Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him.

As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself.

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Craig,

I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs.

But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera.

So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you.

chris

No effect on me at all, they are your frames. And thanks yet another example of the inconsistency of the evidence you post. One really never knows what to expect from you. Pretty hard to do any work with frames that change size and shape from one to next. Gotta wonder about your skills as a "photo analyst" if you can't even spot such gross error like these:

chris.jpg

Don't give up your day job anytime soon.

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

Oh come on now Healy, is the the best you can do? Advertising is in a bit of a pinch right now. HECK JWT just closed shop in Chicago, first opened in 1891. Leisure time abounds...No worries, I'm doing just fine.

Edited by Craig Lamson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Not sure what you meant by the link, so it looks like we both don't know what in the hell you are ever talking about.

Hesters - grainy film???

The FBI had the car traveling at a rate of about 11" per Zapruder film frame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris...this may be the most important image you posted. It shows a man STANDING IN THE BILL NEWMAN

position. Please consider doing a Zframe overlay of this image to show where Newman would appear in

Zapruder.

I have long contended that REMOVING THE NEWMANS was the reason for the raising of the Z frames.

It is one thing to make a composite of the foreground limo and the above the curb grass.

It complicates alteration immensely to also add a FOREGROUND ingredient like the Newman family.

So they cropped them out.

Thanks for your good work.

Jack

Let me see if I have this straight ... you want to believe that so much alteration was done on the Zapruder film with a line of people along the north side of Elm Street because they are not moving around enough to suit you - that the film alterers were able to take Hill and Moorman from the street and place them on the grass and somehow did a beautiful job of creating lower legs that would have been blocked from view if they had been in the street ... but these film alterers felt it necessary to remove the Newman's so to make the alteration easier - please tell me that I am having a bad dream!

Sweet mother of God ... did the critical thinker (Fetzer) give his blessing to that nonsense??? All I can say is that it is a good thing that inventing such ridiculous poorly thought out claims isn't a hangable offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when you have to take a studio, to a client, then, spend all day posting to JFK assassination related boards, one can safely asssume one has begun to lose their day job... things THAT bad, eh?

David, please do not get distracted for we need you to finish that request to the NARA to allow you to examine the Zapruder film so to end this alteration debate once and for all. Your spending all day on these JFK assassination related boards so to post such say-nothing idiocy isn't going to get the job done, son. Get with the varsity ... run with the big dogs ... or what ever way you like to say it, just bottle the antics and get that request written or else people might start thinking that you are just some bozo trying to run a fraud as to you really being serious about the things you have posted in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill,

Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see.

I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film.

While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166.

Not sure what you meant by the link, so it looks like we both don't know what in the hell you are ever talking about.

Hesters - grainy film???

The FBI had the car traveling at a rate of about 11" per Zapruder film frame.

Refresher course for Bill.

Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.

chris

I don't get it... What I see is exactly what Wiegman's film showed and that was Hester hurrying over to the colonnade presumably so to look out the windows. The Bell film captures Hester just before he got off the ground and someone walking into the colonnade area. The Wiegman film is shot at a different angle, thus the walking man isn't visible in Wiegman's film. So what don't you understand?

Edited by Bill Miller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zapruder was so inept at filming, even with the limo traveling at approx 10 mph, right in front of him, this is where it ends up within the frame,compared to cars traveling at approx 40 mph.

Now, move those limo participants into their approx proper location.

Much better!!!! Getting them closer to center frame. A little more realistic.

The SUV which rides higher than the limo, would put the limo occupants even closer to center frame.

chris

Two things ... do you feel that your film capture is scaled to match the Zapruder frame?

And do you know that the 'X' on the street is too far east by a foot or so. Groden pointed this out to some time ago ... he may even be the one who marked the street in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the residents of Zimbabwe recognize Elm St. goes downhill.

You encourage others to recreate examples for comparison, yet when the result is starkly different, you write it off as "filmed by an amateur".

Please show us your pedestal footage.

In fact, the offer extends to everyone.

Let's see what other amateur/ even professional results look like.

And while we're waiting, I'll provide them with another comparison example(from the pedestal) of a car traveling downhill.

A Z difference of 6 degrees CCW at this point.

Follow that curbline.

chris

The assassination films show Zapruder as he turned with the limo (not bad for being made of rubber as Fetzer has suggested). It appears to me that Zapruder ued the curb-line as a guide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...