Chris Davidson Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.chris I don't get it... What I see is exactly what Wiegman's film showed and that was Hester hurrying over to the colonnade presumably so to look out the windows. The Bell film captures Hester just before he got off the ground and someone walking into the colonnade area. The Wiegman film is shot at a different angle, thus the walking man isn't visible in Wiegman's film. So what don't you understand? Bill, Maybe this will help. Charles Hester is at the colonnade and Beatrice is starting to rise. This is about the same moment in time between both frames. That is a newspaper in front of Beatrice. Take a look at the Couch film and you'll see one of them pick the paper up. Bronson also shows them with a newspaper. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it.chris I don't get it... What I see is exactly what Wiegman's film showed and that was Hester hurrying over to the colonnade presumably so to look out the windows. The Bell film captures Hester just before he got off the ground and someone walking into the colonnade area. The Wiegman film is shot at a different angle, thus the walking man isn't visible in Wiegman's film. So what don't you understand? Bill, Maybe this will help. Charles Hester is at the colonnade and Beatrice is starting to rise. This is about the same moment in time between both frames. That is a newspaper in front of Beatrice. Take a look at the Couch film and you'll see one of them pick the paper up. Bronson also shows them with a newspaper. chris Chris...in my opinion, Mrs Hester may have been holding a sign, not a newspaper. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Another one for positioning.chris Chris...instead of twisting YOUR frame, leave your frame level and TWIST THE Z FRAME T FIT YOURS. That will show Mary and Jean both listing badly to portside instead of being ERECT like frozen turkeys. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Another one for positioning.chris Chris...instead of twisting YOUR frame, leave your frame level and TWIST THE Z FRAME T FIT YOURS. That will show Mary and Jean both listing badly to portside instead of being ERECT like frozen turkeys. Jack And why do you think Chris's frame is level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Another one for positioning.chris Chris...instead of twisting YOUR frame, leave your frame level and TWIST THE Z FRAME T FIT YOURS. That will show Mary and Jean both listing badly to portside instead of being ERECT like frozen turkeys. Jack Jack, How about this instead. Panning a car going down Elm St. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 No. I'd like to see the Z frame TILTED in relation to your correct frame. Thanks. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 No. I'd like to see the Z frame TILTED in relation to your correct frame.Thanks. Jack Cat got your tongue Jack? Again exactly WHY do your think Chris's frame is correct? Or don't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 No. I'd like to see the Z frame TILTED in relation to your correct frame.Thanks. Jack Jack, Here you go. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Thanks, Chris. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The frame on the top left is from Groden's uncut version and at right is the MPI version.(so called original). That black vertical pole and vertical box to it's immediate left, on the corner of Houston and Elm seems very troublesome. I guess I wasn't the only one having problems keeping objects level to the horizon. Of course, that's if you believe the background is the same, also. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The frame on the top left is from Groden's uncut version and at right is the MPI version.(so called original).That black vertical pole and vertical box to it's immediate left, on the corner of Houston and Elm seems very troublesome. I guess I wasn't the only one having problems keeping objects level to the horizon. Of course, that's if you believe the background is the same, also. chris You realize that one is a copy off a film and the other is pictures of a film strip - right? Have you attempted to look for any known causes for what you see?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The frame on the top left is from Groden's uncut version and at right is the MPI version.(so called original).That black vertical pole and vertical box to it's immediate left, on the corner of Houston and Elm seems very troublesome. I guess I wasn't the only one having problems keeping objects level to the horizon. Of course, that's if you believe the background is the same, also. chris You realize that one is a copy off a film and the other is pictures of a film strip - right? Have you attempted to look for any known causes for what you see?? let's cut the nonsense.... cite it, and source for each, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Agbat Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The MPI DVD contains a video track that documents how they produced their version of the Z-Film. IIRC, they photographed each frame onto a 4x5 positive, and then scanned that positive. MPI had to deal with registration and rotation issues with each frame, as neither the photographic process nor the scan was absolutely "in alignment". Ergo the need for image manipulation. That is, as I mentioned, my recollection. I would encourage you to watch the DVD for complete verification. There are PLENTY of issues with the MPI transfer, and it is far from the "definitive" copy that they brag about it being. I would not trust it, Chris, for the type of analysis you are attempting. Rotation (for certain) and frame-sizing are known issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Frank, How about this comparison instead? chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Frank,How about this comparison instead? chris good job, Chris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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