Motorcycle Officers "Martin & Chaney"

[Dean Hagerman]

Dean hudson pointed out three men...b

Thanks Bernice, I have read that statement you posted in one of Weisbergs books but forgot all about it

I could have swore I read a statement by Hudson that he only remembered one other man on the steps

I need to look through my dowloads and books

Dean

[Todd W. Vaughan]

All,

Garrison investigator Thomas Bethel kept a diary during the Garrison investigation. In an entry for Saturday, October 26, 1967, Bethell wrote the following:

“We have received visits in the last week from: Roger Craig, ex-deputy sheriff in Dallas; Al Chapman, whom Penn Jones now informs Mark Lane is a member of the Klan, and furnishes nothing but useless information; a Mr. Eddows from England, and Dr. John Nichols from Kansas City

…

Chapman had nothing to offer, as far as I could see, but Garrison spent the whole of Thursday afternoon and Friday morning talking to him. Chapman took some man-hole pictures behind the picket fence in Dealey Plaza in August, 1967. He said he thought the "Illuminati" were responsible for the assassination, and seemed to be trying to tie "niggers" in too, citing Euins, and Negro man on wall, reported to him by Hudson, the Dealey Plaza ground-keeper.”

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bethell3.htm

I find the line “…Negro man on wall, reported to him by Hudson, the Dealey Plaza ground-keeper.” quite interesting, given the Stizman story and all of the discussion about the black couple, etc.

I know that Al Chapman interviewed some witnesses and produced transcripts of those interviews. While I have seen one or two of those, I have not been able to track down a transcript of his Hudson interview. I’d love to see what he said about the “Nergo man on wall”. I understand that Chapman mat have been friends with Mary Ferrell. Perhaps there is something in her archives.

I should also point out that there are a few contemporaneous news print and radio reports about a black man and women running away from the scene along what is described as a “walkway”.

Todd

Edited January 22, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Dean Hagerman]

I used Robins nice BDM scan to point out what I see as the "Mother and Child" in Betzner

It even looks like she is holding the baby on her hip the same way

Now I think that BDM was CardiganMan! (In Betzner and Willis)

In Betzner and Willis he was standing up behind the wall with his wife and child

Then he moved down to join Hudson on the steps while his wife and child moved down the wall to the end (that is why we see her image in Moorman)

I would love everyones opinion on this shape

[Robin Unger]

Groden Scan

Gary Shaw crouching down behind the wall.

[Dean Hagerman]

All,

Garrison investigator Thomas Bethel kept a diary during the Garrison investigation. In an entry for Saturday, October 26, 1967, Bethell wrote the following:

“We have received visits in the last week from: Roger Craig, ex-deputy sheriff in Dallas; Al Chapman, whom Penn Jones now informs Mark Lane is a member of the Klan, and furnishes nothing but useless information; a Mr. Eddows from England, and Dr. John Nichols from Kansas City

…

Chapman had nothing to offer, as far as I could see, but Garrison spent the whole of Thursday afternoon and Friday morning talking to him. Chapman took some man-hole pictures behind the picket fence in Dealey Plaza in August, 1967. He said he thought the "Illuminati" were responsible for the assassination, and seemed to be trying to tie "niggers" in too, citing Euins, and Negro man on wall, reported to him by Hudson, the Dealey Plaza ground-keeper.”

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bethell3.htm

I find the line “…Negro man on wall, reported to him by Hudson, the Dealey Plaza ground-keeper.” quite interesting, given the Stizman story and all of the discussion about the black couple, etc.

I know that Al Chapman interviewed some witnesses and produced transcripts of those interviews. While I have seen one or two of those, I have not been able to track down a transcript of his Hudson interview. I’d love to see what he said about the “Nergo man on wall”. I understand that Chapman mat have been friends with Mary Ferrell. Perhaps there is something in her archives.

I should also point out that there are a few contemporaneous news print and radio reports about a black man and women running away from the scene along what is described as a “walkway”.

Todd

Wow! Very interesting!

Todd I hope you can find or track down this interview

I am going to go back through all my BDM studies to see if I can find anything I saved from years ago

Keep me posted please Todd

Dean

[Robin Unger]

I used Robins nice BDM scan to point out what I see as the "Mother and Child" in Betzner

It even looks like she is holding the baby on her hip the same way

Now I think that BDM was CardiganMan! (In Betzner and Willis)

In Betzner and Willis he was standing up behind the wall with his wife and child

Then he moved down to join Hudson on the steps while his wife and child moved down the wall to the end (that is why we see her image in Moorman)

I would love everyones opinion on this shape

Hi Dean

I think you will find that is the sunspot on the picket fence at the corner where the two fences meet.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Dean Hagerman]

Robin

I dont think a sunspot would be shining off of the dull wood of the fence?

However that is right in the area of where the two fences meet

I am going to study the Willis and Betzner photos in detail today

Thanks for your opinion and giving me something to look for

Dean

Edited January 22, 2010 by Dean Hagerman

[Jack White]

Robin

I dont think a sunspot would be shining off of the dull wood of the fence

However that is right in the area of where the two fences meet

I am going to study the Willis and Betzner photos in detail today

Thanks for your opinion and giving me something to look for

Dean

Dean...Robin is correct. The area in your rectangle is the sunlight on the fence.

It is NOT a "sunspot" but the sunlight on the entire fence, viewed from a very

oblique angle.

Jack

[Robin Unger]

Robin

I dont think a sunspot would be shining off of the dull wood of the fence

However that is right in the area of where the two fences meet

I am going to study the Willis and Betzner photos in detail today

Thanks for your opinion and giving me something to look for

Dean

Dean...Robin is correct. The area in your rectangle is the sunlight on the fence.

It is NOT a "sunspot" but the sunlight on the entire fence, viewed from a very

oblique angle.

Jack

Yes Jack, i should have said sunlight as apposed to sunspot.

It can be seen clearer in the Moorman image i posted above.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Robin

I dont think a sunspot would be shining off of the dull wood of the fence

However that is right in the area of where the two fences meet

I am going to study the Willis and Betzner photos in detail today

Thanks for your opinion and giving me something to look for

Dean

Dean...Robin is correct. The area in your rectangle is the sunlight on the fence.

It is NOT a "sunspot" but the sunlight on the entire fence, viewed from a very

oblique angle.

Jack

Jack,

Regarding my Al Chapman post above, did you know Chapman and could you share anything about any of his work?

Thanks.

Todd

[Jack White]

trouble is dean anything is possible...but as i have seen it correct me jack if in error, but sitzman only mentioned the black couple after the bdgmn had been found, and at first it was 1 coke bottle that then became two, also there are many differences within her stories recall...she ran down the slope spoke to two men she thought were fbi i believe, then ran back up none of this is seen within the films, zapruder got down off the pedestal and zapruder went back to his office leaving her staNDING ALONE ON THE PEDESTAL WE DO NOT SEE THAT EITHER sorry caps... we do have one photo of her speaking with one reporter after on the sidewalk.below the pergola...and a couple of them near the tsbd standing close to beatrice hester on their way back to the office...in the tape she says two men followed her back to the office and she was very frightened, but i have never found any men immediately near or watching her at the tsbd...the tape she made some years later with her doctor a psychatrist...that i believe is still for sale..in that she relates info that does not, well fit the picture...i have done as deep a study as i could on her as far as i could go...i hit a blank wall when i contacted dallas i had been informed there were two researchers there who had done studies on her information but they were not willing apparently to share release or print what info they had found it all ended there another endeavour on a sour note amongst some that perhaps did not or do not want her possible information being released as it still has not been.so it makes one wonder ...fwiw...b

Bernice...I had not heard anything about a Sitzman tape with a psychiatrist! Interesting!

I do not recall the date of Thompson's Sitzman interview. I cannot remember also where

I read the Thompson interview...was it in a book or on the internet! Sitzman needs much

more study.

Thanks for the always good info.

Jack

[Robin Unger]

Credit Bernice:

Everybody was on the ground, and Mr Z was gone.

There had been gun shots and I was standing there all by myself.

This may be the reason i only see a woman on the pedestal in weigman.

No Mr Z

Edited January 22, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Dean Hagerman]

Dean...Robin is correct. The area in your rectangle is the sunlight on the fence.

It is NOT a "sunspot" but the sunlight on the entire fence, viewed from a very

oblique angle.

Jack

Thank you Jack for your valued opinion

Anyone else see sunspot/sunlight? Or a mother and child?

[Todd W. Vaughan]

trouble is dean anything is possible...but as i have seen it correct me jack if in error, but sitzman only mentioned the black couple after the bdgmn had been found, and at first it was 1 coke bottle that then became two, also there are many differences within her stories recall...she ran down the slope spoke to two men she thought were fbi i believe, then ran back up none of this is seen within the films, zapruder got down off the pedestal and zapruder went back to his office leaving her staNDING ALONE ON THE PEDESTAL WE DO NOT SEE THAT EITHER sorry caps... we do have one photo of her speaking with one reporter after on the sidewalk.below the pergola...and a couple of them near the tsbd standing close to beatrice hester on their way back to the office...in the tape she says two men followed her back to the office and she was very frightened, but i have never found any men immediately near or watching her at the tsbd...the tape she made some years later with her doctor a psychatrist...that i believe is still for sale..in that she relates info that does not, well fit the picture...i have done as deep a study as i could on her as far as i could go...i hit a blank wall when i contacted dallas i had been informed there were two researchers there who had done studies on her information but they were not willing apparently to share release or print what info they had found it all ended there another endeavour on a sour note amongst some that perhaps did not or do not want her possible information being released as it still has not been.so it makes one wonder ...fwiw...b

Bernice...I had not heard anything about a Sitzman tape with a psychiatrist! Interesting!

I do not recall the date of Thompson's Sitzman interview. I cannot remember also where

I read the Thompson interview...was it in a book or on the internet! Sitzman needs much

more study.

Thanks for the always good info.

Jack

1966 or 1967

[Jack White]

Robin

I dont think a sunspot would be shining off of the dull wood of the fence

However that is right in the area of where the two fences meet

I am going to study the Willis and Betzner photos in detail today

Thanks for your opinion and giving me something to look for

Dean

Dean...Robin is correct. The area in your rectangle is the sunlight on the fence.

It is NOT a "sunspot" but the sunlight on the entire fence, viewed from a very

oblique angle.

Jack

Jack,

Regarding my Al Chapman post above, did you know Chapman and could you share anything about any of his work?

Thanks.

Todd

I knew Al since the seventh grade. He and I were high school classmates.

Al was missing his left arm, and seemed to be a nice guy; he joined the football

team despite having only one arm. His right arm was extremely strong and he

could make a tackle (he was a lineman) with just one arm. But when older

he got in the wrong crowd and had a minor brush with the law, I heard.

Later, he moved to Dallas and worked as a janitor. Somewhere along the

way (I had lost track of him by then), he married and had a son Randy, who

is now a Dallas private detective). Then he got religion and pastored some

kind of church. He became very interested in the assassination and began

collecting photos and selling articles to the grocery store tabloids. He got to

know the case pretty well. Once he and some friends attended one of my

slide lectures; he had not changed much since high school. One sour note,

Mary Ferrell said to me once, "I don't trust Al; he has connections to some

unsavory policemen." I cannot verify that, but it seems maybe the source

of some of his photos was somebody in the DPD. I once met his son Randy,

who let me photocopy some of Al's photos.

That is all I know. I hope it answers your question.

Jack