Robert Harris's Broken 3rd Floor Daltex Window Theory Blown Out Of The Water

[Robert Harris]

Robert, it's pretty clear that Connally yells out "My God! They're going to kill us all!" before Z-285. While Nellie Connally believed her husband yelled out "No, no, no" before he was hit,

That is absolutely correct.

she always insisted he yelled out "My God..." after. This means that she believed he was hit seconds before Z-285.

Pat, we cannot be certain about when he said that. She may have heard the tail end of that sentence as the 312 shot was going off. But the fact that she heard that "second shot" after looking back at 258, and then reacted within a third of a second following 285, has to trump anything else.

I don't follow you here, Bob, and suspect you are greatly mistaken. Deaf mutes have studied the film and have read Connally's lips. Their appraisal, moreover, seems obvious when one studies the film. Connally begins claiming "My God" in response to getting hit almost two seconds before you believe his wife thinks he was hit, even though she claimed from the first, even before viewing the film, that she thought he yelled this out as a response to getting hit. If you want to claim she was confused. Fine. But you shouldn't pretend that this is not a problem for your scenario.

Other problems I see... You seem to believe there was a shot at 160, but that no one heard it, or some such thing. Those claiming there was a shot at this time inevitably do so because they think they see Connally react to it. If no one heard it...then why should we think it happened? I don't get this at all...

Also, while you correctly claim that the witnesses heard the last two shots close together, you seem to ignore that the bulk of these claimed the head shot was the first of these two shots...and that Kinney and Roberts--looking at the back of Kennedy's head at the time of the shots--said they were so close together that they just couldn't tell or some such thing. This, to me, is a clear indication that the head shot was the second shot, and not the third of the three shots heard by most witnesses.

Pat, let's be specific about what the lip readers actually said. This is regarding frames 255-287.

Gov. Connally is screaming and talking (his face is in shadow; he may be saying, "My God, they're going to kill us all," based on what can be seen of his expression

By their own words, they cannot see his mouth and are only guessing about what he was saying.

And remember, they had him saying, "Oh, no, no, no" beginning at 242-250. It takes me about 2 seconds (36 frames) to say that and I talk faster than most Texans. And he would not have run the two statements immediately together. He had to have stopped to grab a breathe before the "My God.." statement.

242 + 32 to say "Oh, no..", then let's say 12 frames (2/3rds of a second) to take a breathe and we have him beginning that second sentence at 286.

Do you see what I mean? Seriously, try it yourself. Tell me if those numbers are reasonable, Pat.

As for the timing of the head shot, that is another can of worms which gets a bit complicated because I'm pretty sure there was a shot after 312 which was drowned out by the much louder shot that preceded it. But Greer said the second and third shots were nearly simultaneous as did most of the other witnesses. And look at Kellerman's reaction immediately following 285. Watch as he ducks and simultaneously raises his left hand to shield his ear.

Obviously, Kellerman was reacting to the 130 decibel sound level of the same shock wave that Greer described as the "concussion" he felt from that shot. Also in that same animation, look at Greer reacting simultaneously with Kellerman. Some alterationists believe that Greer's turns to the front and back then were humanly impossible. They're not of course, but they are damned fast. I was able to match them back in the 90's but it took me several tries and I was more than a little dizzy afterward.

And as we all know, he panicked and slowed the limo which I believe further confirms that he was seriously startled then, exactly as we would expect him to be.

Both Greers and Kellerman's reactions began at the same 1/18th of a second at frame 292. They began within the same 1/6th of a second as Jackie's and Nellies reactions and the reaction by Zapruder that that Alvarez identified.

As for 160, yes I believe that some witnesses, probably a majority, heard it. But almost no one believed at the time that it was a gunshot. Nor did the limo passengers exhibit startle reactions to it. Obviously, it did not come from a high powered rifle and was almost certainly from a suppressed weapon. What the witnesses might have heard, was the sound of it shattering when it hit the pavement. Now, there may be another explanation for that but it seems pretty obvious that for whatever reason, it was heard by quite a few people.

I know a lot of conspiracy people don't buy the shot at 160 but consider how many witnesses including Jackie herself, said the she was looking to her left when the shot was fired and that she reacted by turning toward her husband. She began that turn at precisely frame 169.

No one heard the shot at 223 however, probably because it never hit the pavement. That's why most witnesses reported no more than one early shot. And that's why Connally never heard the shot that hit him. The nutter excuses for that are just BS. A bullet in the back doesn't affect one's auditory system unless he is rendered unconscious. There is no reason why Connally would not have heard that shot if it was audible. And the testimonies of the other witnesses confirm that they didn't hear it either.

I realize that this is different than anything you have probably heard before. But if you think about it I believe you will realize that this explanation is the ONLY one that is really consistent with the known facts. Everything else from Posner to Groden, directly contradicts the witnesses and a great deal of evidence.

[Pat Speer]

Robert, it's pretty clear that Connally yells out "My God! They're going to kill us all!" before Z-285. While Nellie Connally believed her husband yelled out "No, no, no" before he was hit,

That is absolutely correct.

she always insisted he yelled out "My God..." after. This means that she believed he was hit seconds before Z-285.

Pat, we cannot be certain about when he said that. She may have heard the tail end of that sentence as the 312 shot was going off. But the fact that she heard that "second shot" after looking back at 258, and then reacted within a third of a second following 285, has to trump anything else.

I don't follow you here, Bob, and suspect you are greatly mistaken. Deaf mutes have studied the film and have read Connally's lips. Their appraisal, moreover, seems obvious when one studies the film. Connally begins claiming "My God" in response to getting hit almost two seconds before you believe his wife thinks he was hit, even though she claimed from the first, even before viewing the film, that she thought he yelled this out as a response to getting hit. If you want to claim she was confused. Fine. But you shouldn't pretend that this is not a problem for your scenario.

Other problems I see... You seem to believe there was a shot at 160, but that no one heard it, or some such thing. Those claiming there was a shot at this time inevitably do so because they think they see Connally react to it. If no one heard it...then why should we think it happened? I don't get this at all...

Also, while you correctly claim that the witnesses heard the last two shots close together, you seem to ignore that the bulk of these claimed the head shot was the first of these two shots...and that Kinney and Roberts--looking at the back of Kennedy's head at the time of the shots--said they were so close together that they just couldn't tell or some such thing. This, to me, is a clear indication that the head shot was the second shot, and not the third of the three shots heard by most witnesses.

Pat, let's be specific about what the lip readers actually said. This is regarding frames 255-287.

Gov. Connally is screaming and talking (his face is in shadow; he may be saying, "My God, they're going to kill us all," based on what can be seen of his expression

By their own words, they cannot see his mouth and are only guessing about what he was saying.

And remember, they had him saying, "Oh, no, no, no" beginning at 242-250. It takes me about 2 seconds (36 frames) to say that and I talk faster than most Texans. And he would not have run the two statements immediately together. He had to have stopped to grab a breathe before the "My God.." statement.

242 + 32 to say "Oh, no..", then let's say 12 frames (2/3rds of a second) to take a breathe and we have him beginning that second sentence at 286.

Do you see what I mean? Seriously, try it yourself. Tell me if those numbers are reasonable, Pat.

As for the timing of the head shot, that is another can of worms which gets a bit complicated because I'm pretty sure there was a shot after 312 which was drowned out by the much louder shot that preceded it. But Greer said the second and third shots were nearly simultaneous as did most of the other witnesses. And look at Kellerman's reaction immediately following 285. Watch as he ducks and simultaneously raises his left hand to shield his ear.

Obviously, Kellerman was reacting to the 130 decibel sound level of the same shock wave that Greer described as the "concussion" he felt from that shot. Also in that same animation, look at Greer reacting simultaneously with Kellerman. Some alterationists believe that Greer's turns to the front and back then were humanly impossible. They're not of course, but they are damned fast. I was able to match them back in the 90's but it took me several tries and I was more than a little dizzy afterward.

And as we all know, he panicked and slowed the limo which I believe further confirms that he was seriously startled then, exactly as we would expect him to be.

Both Greers and Kellerman's reactions began at the same 1/18th of a second at frame 292. They began within the same 1/6th of a second as Jackie's and Nellies reactions and the reaction by Zapruder that that Alvarez identified.

As for 160, yes I believe that some witnesses, probably a majority, heard it. But almost no one believed at the time that it was a gunshot. Nor did the limo passengers exhibit startle reactions to it. Obviously, it did not come from a high powered rifle and was almost certainly from a suppressed weapon. What the witnesses might have heard, was the sound of it shattering when it hit the pavement. Now, there may be another explanation for that but it seems pretty obvious that for whatever reason, it was heard by quite a few people.

I know a lot of conspiracy people don't buy the shot at 160 but consider how many witnesses including Jackie herself, said the she was looking to her left when the shot was fired and that she reacted by turning toward her husband. She began that turn at precisely frame 169.

No one heard the shot at 223 however, probably because it never hit the pavement. That's why most witnesses reported no more than one early shot. And that's why Connally never heard the shot that hit him. The nutter excuses for that are just BS. A bullet in the back doesn't affect one's auditory system unless he is rendered unconscious. There is no reason why Connally would not have heard that shot if it was audible. And the testimonies of the other witnesses confirm that they didn't hear it either.

I realize that this is different than anything you have probably heard before. But if you think about it I believe you will realize that this explanation is the ONLY one that is really consistent with the known facts. Everything else from Posner to Groden, directly contradicts the witnesses and a great deal of evidence.

Robert, it seems clear from your post that, while I have followed your arguments for years from a distance, you have never read the chapters on my webpage dealing with this issue.

In Chapters 5 through 9, I go through ALL the eyewitness statements over the years, and show how they support a scenario in which 1) the first shot heard by most was fired circa 190, and hit Kennedy; 2) a suppressed or subsonic shot hit Connally circa 223/224, and 3) two loud noises were heard circa Z-313, with the bullet associated with the first one striking Kennedy in the skull, and the second one, if it was a bullet and not a diversionary device, missing.

That is what the eyewitness statements suggest, when taken in total. There is virtually nothing to suggest a shot of any kind was fired circa Z-160. I dismantle all of Bugliosi's arguments for such a shot in Chapter 9b of my webpage.

Now, you have taken the fact that everyone in the limo is moving at a certain point in the Z-film as an indication everyone was reacting to a missed shot at this time. And I don't think you can do that. One of your reactions--Kellerman's--appears to be nothing more than his reaching for the microphone on the dash of the limo.

Now, one way I think you could shore up your argument would be for you to go through the eyewitness statements, and find those who said something suggesting the head shot followed a missed shot fired but a second or two before. Happy hunting. I think Hickey might be your best bet.

P.S. Shackleford's article with the deaf mutes was written long before clear copies of the film were available. In the digitized version of the film, it's pretty darned clear, as I recall, that Connally yells out "My God," just after Z-250. Maybe you can post this so we can see if my memory's correct.

[Robert Harris]

Robert, it's pretty clear that Connally yells out "My God! They're going to kill us all!" before Z-285. While Nellie Connally believed her husband yelled out "No, no, no" before he was hit,

That is absolutely correct.

she always insisted he yelled out "My God..." after. This means that she believed he was hit seconds before Z-285.

Pat, we cannot be certain about when he said that. She may have heard the tail end of that sentence as the 312 shot was going off. But the fact that she heard that "second shot" after looking back at 258, and then reacted within a third of a second following 285, has to trump anything else.

I don't follow you here, Bob, and suspect you are greatly mistaken. Deaf mutes have studied the film and have read Connally's lips. Their appraisal, moreover, seems obvious when one studies the film. Connally begins claiming "My God" in response to getting hit almost two seconds before you believe his wife thinks he was hit, even though she claimed from the first, even before viewing the film, that she thought he yelled this out as a response to getting hit. If you want to claim she was confused. Fine. But you shouldn't pretend that this is not a problem for your scenario.

Other problems I see... You seem to believe there was a shot at 160, but that no one heard it, or some such thing. Those claiming there was a shot at this time inevitably do so because they think they see Connally react to it. If no one heard it...then why should we think it happened? I don't get this at all...

Also, while you correctly claim that the witnesses heard the last two shots close together, you seem to ignore that the bulk of these claimed the head shot was the first of these two shots...and that Kinney and Roberts--looking at the back of Kennedy's head at the time of the shots--said they were so close together that they just couldn't tell or some such thing. This, to me, is a clear indication that the head shot was the second shot, and not the third of the three shots heard by most witnesses.

Pat, let's be specific about what the lip readers actually said. This is regarding frames 255-287.

Gov. Connally is screaming and talking (his face is in shadow; he may be saying, "My God, they're going to kill us all," based on what can be seen of his expression

By their own words, they cannot see his mouth and are only guessing about what he was saying.

And remember, they had him saying, "Oh, no, no, no" beginning at 242-250. It takes me about 2 seconds (36 frames) to say that and I talk faster than most Texans. And he would not have run the two statements immediately together. He had to have stopped to grab a breathe before the "My God.." statement.

242 + 32 to say "Oh, no..", then let's say 12 frames (2/3rds of a second) to take a breathe and we have him beginning that second sentence at 286.

Do you see what I mean? Seriously, try it yourself. Tell me if those numbers are reasonable, Pat.

As for the timing of the head shot, that is another can of worms which gets a bit complicated because I'm pretty sure there was a shot after 312 which was drowned out by the much louder shot that preceded it. But Greer said the second and third shots were nearly simultaneous as did most of the other witnesses. And look at Kellerman's reaction immediately following 285. Watch as he ducks and simultaneously raises his left hand to shield his ear.

Obviously, Kellerman was reacting to the 130 decibel sound level of the same shock wave that Greer described as the "concussion" he felt from that shot. Also in that same animation, look at Greer reacting simultaneously with Kellerman. Some alterationists believe that Greer's turns to the front and back then were humanly impossible. They're not of course, but they are damned fast. I was able to match them back in the 90's but it took me several tries and I was more than a little dizzy afterward.

And as we all know, he panicked and slowed the limo which I believe further confirms that he was seriously startled then, exactly as we would expect him to be.

Both Greers and Kellerman's reactions began at the same 1/18th of a second at frame 292. They began within the same 1/6th of a second as Jackie's and Nellies reactions and the reaction by Zapruder that that Alvarez identified.

As for 160, yes I believe that some witnesses, probably a majority, heard it. But almost no one believed at the time that it was a gunshot. Nor did the limo passengers exhibit startle reactions to it. Obviously, it did not come from a high powered rifle and was almost certainly from a suppressed weapon. What the witnesses might have heard, was the sound of it shattering when it hit the pavement. Now, there may be another explanation for that but it seems pretty obvious that for whatever reason, it was heard by quite a few people.

I know a lot of conspiracy people don't buy the shot at 160 but consider how many witnesses including Jackie herself, said the she was looking to her left when the shot was fired and that she reacted by turning toward her husband. She began that turn at precisely frame 169.

No one heard the shot at 223 however, probably because it never hit the pavement. That's why most witnesses reported no more than one early shot. And that's why Connally never heard the shot that hit him. The nutter excuses for that are just BS. A bullet in the back doesn't affect one's auditory system unless he is rendered unconscious. There is no reason why Connally would not have heard that shot if it was audible. And the testimonies of the other witnesses confirm that they didn't hear it either.

I realize that this is different than anything you have probably heard before. But if you think about it I believe you will realize that this explanation is the ONLY one that is really consistent with the known facts. Everything else from Posner to Groden, directly contradicts the witnesses and a great deal of evidence.

Robert, it seems clear from your post that, while I have followed your arguments for years from a distance, you have never read the chapters on my webpage dealing with this issue.

In Chapters 5 through 9, I go through ALL the eyewitness statements over the years, and show how they support a scenario in which 1) the first shot heard by most was fired circa 190, and hit Kennedy; 2) a suppressed or subsonic shot hit Connally circa 223/224, and 3) two loud noises were heard circa Z-313, with the bullet associated with the first one striking Kennedy in the skull, and the second one, if it was a bullet and not a diversionary device, missing.

That is what the eyewitness statements suggest, when taken in total. There is virtually nothing to suggest a shot of any kind was fired circa Z-160. I dismantle all of Bugliosi's arguments for such a shot in Chapter 9b of my webpage.

Now, you have taken the fact that everyone in the limo is moving at a certain point in the Z-film as an indication everyone was reacting to a missed shot at this time. And I don't think you can do that. One of your reactions--Kellerman's--appears to be nothing more than his reaching for the microphone on the dash of the limo.

Now, one way I think you could shore up your argument would be for you to go through the eyewitness statements, and find those who said something suggesting the head shot followed a missed shot fired but a second or two before. Happy hunting. I think Hickey might be your best bet.

P.S. Shackleford's article with the deaf mutes was written long before clear copies of the film were available. In the digitized version of the film, it's pretty darned clear, as I recall, that Connally yells out "My God," just after Z-250. Maybe you can post this so we can see if my memory's correct.

So.. what you get out my previous post is that I base my analysis on an assertion that "everyone is moving"?? Is that right?

Thank you Pat. If nothing else I have acquired a much better feel for where you are coming from and how seriously you take this case.

I will not bother you again.

[Bill Miller]

And I have never claimed that the second shot was fired at a "much later time than 223/224". Both Connally and Kennedy were hit at 223, give or take a frame.

And Nellie has NEVER contradicted her statements about the shooting - not even once. If she had, you would have been able to cite her doing that. Why are you pretending that she did??

I won't argue with you as to JFK being hit by a separate bullet ... you can think what you want. We have been talking about what Connally and his wife have said. I cited in a previous post that Nellie said that she heard the second shot that hit her husband in the back. I cited the source and quoted it.

Now here the Life Magazine quotes that you said I was wrong about and how you didn't need to go read it again. The issue was November 1966 and I am quoting John and Nellie:

John Connally says to Life Magazine, "Between the time I heard the first shot and felt the impact of the other bullet that obviously hit me, I sensed something was wrong and said, "Oh no, no, no." " Nellie Connally says to Life Magazine, "First I heard the shot, or a strange or loud noise ........ then next I turned to my right and saw the President gripping at his throat. Then I turned back towards John, and heard the second shot that hit John .... I must have been looking right at him when it hit because I saw him recoil to the right."

The Connally's have spoken ... they claim that the first shot that hit the President WAS NOT the shot that hit John Connally in the back. The statement 'Oh no, no, no' is said to have come before the impact to Connally's back. I have told you several times that they have said just what you see quoted here and in my previous post where I quoted them from another source. You said they have never said any such thing and now I have shown that you were mistaken. All your propaganda didn't change the facts. Both John and Nellie make it perfectly clear in all their versions that a separate bullet hit the Governor than what hit JFK. Connally said he had time to react and say 'Oh no, no, no' and added that he said this when he was behind the road sign and BEFORE he was hit in the back. So feel free to read the Life Magazine Interview before saying anything else that will put you in a bad light. The other option would be to continue to deny that I have cited the Connally's correctly.

My only error was that I said I recalled the interview being in the November 67' issue when it was the November 66' issue.

Also you said, "The simple fact which you are trying so desperately to evade is, that during the assassination, Mrs. Connally was oblivious to her husband being wounded at the time he was actually hit, and that she didn't believe he was wounded until AFTER she heard the next shot, which provoked her to finally turn to him and pull him back to her." I believe the above cited statements prove otherwise. Nellie said that she saw John recoil to the right after being hit and slump down and that was what caused her to pull him back to her. Both Z255/56 and Altgens #6 show Connaly recoiled to the right from already being hit. I guess one could say NELLIE KNEW IT AND ROBERT BLEW IT!!!

Bill Miller

Edited October 26, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Duke Lane]

Bob hasn't a clue.

His so called high resolution image is cropped from a low resolution jpeg and then turned in to a high resolution image.

What Bob doesn't understand, is that this will not improve and remove any jpeg artifacts that are already there.

The large amount of jpeg compression artifacts are clear for everyone to see.

There's more grain in Robert's image than in a box of Corn Flakes.

My Thomson copy image on the other hand is untouched, no enhancement done, only an enlargement, and all done in lossless png format.

Bob Scissorhands loses again.

Hush now! Bobby's not interested in further analysis from any of us low-lifes, he's come here to display his obviously superior intellect and understanding of the case from start to finish. Haven't you noticed how everything you, Bill and I have said is absolute nonsense, lies, distortions, misdirection and evasion? We would be much better off simply reading this thread rather than responding to it: God gave us two ears and one mouth, and we should use them proportionately to learn from Sage Bob.

It's unfortunate that he didn't have a chance to look at all of this back in 1964 when he could've told the WC what muck-ups they were, called them together, and showed them how it really happened, right down to suppressed gunfire and disappearing window panes. Then, we wouldn't have to be having this stupid discussion, "stupid" only because we don't realize how stupid we are and aren't recognizing the truth when it's trying to slap us in the face!

It's wonderful that you and I have done so much work, and maybe advanced others' understanding a mote, but it's all been a mistake and ultimately meaningless. I for one wonder how he treats his children when they don't grasp "obvious truths" as understood by Dad. On the other hand, this may be an abject lesson on why he might not have any if he treated his girlfriends or ex-wife with such utter disdain.

I don't know why I didn't just wait for his book before delving into this subject. Craig Watkins, if he wins this year's election, would undoubtedly want to hear from Uncle Bob to finally wind this thing down, make a few arrests, and return Dallas' reputation to halcyon pre-1963 days.

Has he ever said what kind of suppressed-fire rifle was used? Or is it sufficient to know that there were such things in the world, and one of 'em musta done it? And what of the tests of the metallic residue left by the bullet that made that firecracker "pop!" behind the limo that set everyone on edge?

'Ay! 'Ere! Smoke some of Bob's stuff. I'm outta here.

[Robert Harris]

And I have never claimed that the second shot was fired at a "much later time than 223/224". Both Connally and Kennedy were hit at 223, give or take a frame.

And Nellie has NEVER contradicted her statements about the shooting - not even once. If she had, you would have been able to cite her doing that. Why are you pretending that she did??

I won't argue with you as to JFK being hit by a separate bullet ... you can think what you want. We have been talking about what Connally and his wife have said. I cited in a previous post that Nellie said that she heard the second shot that hit her husband in the back. I cited the source and quoted it.

Now here the Life Magazine quotes that you said I was wrong about and how you didn't need to go read it again. The issue was November 1966 and I am quoting John and Nellie:

John Connally says to Life Magazine, "Between the time I heard the first shot and felt the impact of the other bullet that obviously hit me, I sensed something was wrong and said, "Oh no, no, no." " Nellie Connally says to Life Magazine, "First I heard the shot, or a strange or loud noise ........ then next I turned to my right and saw the President gripping at his throat. Then I turned back towards John, and heard the second shot that hit John .... I must have been looking right at him when it hit because I saw him recoil to the right."

The Connally's have spoken ... they claim that the first shot that hit the President WAS NOT the shot that hit John Connally in the back. The statement 'Oh no, no, no' is said to have come before the impact to Connally's back. I have told you several times that they have said just what you see quoted here and in my previous post where I quoted them from another source. You said they have never said any such thing and now I have shown that you were mistaken. All your propaganda didn't change the facts. Both John and Nellie make it perfectly clear in all their versions that a separate bullet hit the Governor than what hit JFK. Connally said he had time to react and say 'Oh no, no, no' and added that he said this when he was behind the road sign and BEFORE he was hit in the back. So feel free to read the Life Magazine Interview before saying anything else that will put you in a bad light. The other option would be to continue to deny that I have cited the Connally's correctly.

My only error was that I said I recalled the interview being in the November 67' issue when it was the November 66' issue.

Also you said, "The simple fact which you are trying so desperately to evade is, that during the assassination, Mrs. Connally was oblivious to her husband being wounded at the time he was actually hit, and that she didn't believe he was wounded until AFTER she heard the next shot, which provoked her to finally turn to him and pull him back to her." I believe the above cited statements prove otherwise. Nellie said that she saw John recoil to the right after being hit and slump down and that was what caused her to pull him back to her. Both Z255/56 and Altgens #6 show Connaly recoiled to the right from already being hit. I guess one could say NELLIE KNEW IT AND ROBERT BLEW IT!!!

Bill Miller

I can find three statements that seem to be about your accusation. Now, there may be others but I am not going reread everything I ever wrote on this subject.

"Your claim that she was too old to know what she was talking about in that interview was outrageously disingenuous, since you must realize that her story hadn't changed even slightly since she testified in 1964."

"And Nellie has NEVER contradicted her statements about the shooting - not even once. If she had, you would have been able to cite her doing that. Why are you pretending that she did??"

"I read that Life article years ago and nothing in it contradicts the Connallys."

If John Connally was quoted correctly in that article, he did indeed contradict his Warren Commission testimony, his HSCA testimony and every other interview I ever heard from him. I don't think I ever said that he was 100% consistent, but frankly if I had been asked I probably would have said he was. This is what he told the HSCA,

"..it was a bit later when I said oh, no, no, no. This was after I realized I had been hit and, then I said my God, they are going to kill us all."

And that is what he said over and over again both before and after the Life article. I don't think it is impossible that the interviewer misunderstood him.

Much more importantly, we KNOW that he said "Oh, no.." , AFTER 223. We can see him ourselves and that has been confirmed by professional lip readers. He began to shout at about 242.

But Nellie is the real issue here. It is all those questions about HER, that you have been running from. And your problem is that she not only told us when she heard that shot, but we can SEE her react to it a third of a second following 285 and in almost perfect unison with Zapruder and every other nonvictim in the limo.

And THAT is what has you running for a dry pair of pants, isn't it Bill?

I don't believe you will ever find her contradicting herself. But if she ever did, I have 100% faith in you Bill, that you will find it

[Bill Miller]

If John Connally was quoted correctly in that article, he did indeed contradict his Warren Commission testimony, his HSCA testimony and every other interview I ever heard from him. I don't think I ever said that he was 100% consistent, but frankly if I had been asked I probably would have said he was. This is what he told the HSCA,

Yet when you were told about the other interviews and statements they made ... you were so arrogant that I was in error that you didn't need to refresh your memory about the Life article that you claimed to have read even though your reply now makes it clear that you had no such memory or had even read the article .... none of which surprises me.

"..it was a bit later when I said oh, no, no, no. This was after I realized I had been hit and, then I said my God, they are going to kill us all."

And that is what he said over and over again both before and after the Life article. I don't think it is impossible that the interviewer misunderstood him.

As I recall you were shown statements by Connally where he said both in the same breath as if he wasn't sure. I can't say whether the interviewer for the Commission or elsewhere had misunderstood him, but what I can say is that the Life Interview was given by Connally to offer a more precise accounting for what happened during those few brief seconds. You were warned that they had done so and you ignored it as if what I was telling wasn't so. Your were advised not to rely so much on obviously contradictory statements they had made and to rely more on the one thing they were consistent on and that was when Connally was hit in the back. I had explained, quite clearly in my view, that Nellie said that the second shot she had heard was the one that hit her husband in the back despite her not being sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no,no'.

Much more importantly, we KNOW that he said "Oh, no.." , AFTER 223. We can see him ourselves and that has been confirmed by professional lip readers. He began to shout at about 242.

Others here disagree with your memory of what the lip readers said ... all I am saying is that Connally had said that it came after he heard the first shot and before he felt the blow to his back.

But Nellie is the real issue here. It is all those questions about HER, that you have been running from. And your problem is that she not only told us when she heard that shot, but we can SEE her react to it a third of a second following 285 and in almost perfect unison with Zapruder and every other nonvictim in the limo.

I don't believe you will ever find her contradicting herself. But if she ever did, I have 100% faith in you Bill, that you will find it

And what reaction is that, Harris? The entire shooting lasted about six seconds! Nellie attempted to explain what happened in the Life interview so people like us wouldn't be confusing what she was trying to convey in the past to what we were interpreting her to mean. Had you have read the Life interview, you would be forced to see that it is not me saying this stuff, but the Connally's themselves. Whether the Connally's were ever previously mis-quoted or whether they felt they had previously mis-stated something ... they wanted the record set straight and said so in the interview.

In my previous response concerning Nellie wanting to set the record straight, I took the time to cite Nellie from the instant she saw John first being shot at the moment of the second blast - to buckling over - to recoiling to his right - to slumping down - to her pulling him back towards her .... and all in that order!!! So without the use of sock-puppets to help you better follow the chain of events through Nellie's own words during those few seconds .... she couldn't have done a better job of breaking things down.

Bill Miller

Edited October 26, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

If John Connally was quoted correctly in that article, he did indeed contradict his Warren Commission testimony, his HSCA testimony and every other interview I ever heard from him. I don't think I ever said that he was 100% consistent, but frankly if I had been asked I probably would have said he was. This is what he told the HSCA,

Yet when you were told about the other interviews and statements they made ... you were so arrogant that I was in error that you didn't need to refresh your memory about the Life article that you claimed to have read even though your reply now makes it clear that you had no such memory or had even read the article .... none of which surprises me.

"..it was a bit later when I said oh, no, no, no. This was after I realized I had been hit and, then I said my God, they are going to kill us all."

And that is what he said over and over again both before and after the Life article. I don't think it is impossible that the interviewer misunderstood him.

As I recall you were shown statements by Connally where he said both in the same breath as if he wasn't sure. I can't say whether the interviewer for the Commission or elsewhere had misunderstood him, but what I can say is that the Life Interview was given by Connally to offer a more precise accounting for what happened during those few brief seconds. You were warned that they had done so and you ignored it as if what I was telling wasn't so. Your were advised not to rely so much on obviously contradictory statements they had made and to rely more on the one thing they were consistent on and that was when Connally was hit in the back. I had explained, quite clearly in my view, that Nellie said that the second shot she had heard was the one that hit her husband in the back despite her not being sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no,no'.

Much more importantly, we KNOW that he said "Oh, no.." , AFTER 223. We can see him ourselves and that has been confirmed by professional lip readers. He began to shout at about 242.

Others here disagree with your memory of what the lip readers said ... all I am saying is that Connally had said that it came after he heard the first shot and before he felt the blow to his back.

But Nellie is the real issue here. It is all those questions about HER, that you have been running from. And your problem is that she not only told us when she heard that shot, but we can SEE her react to it a third of a second following 285 and in almost perfect unison with Zapruder and every other nonvictim in the limo.

I don't believe you will ever find her contradicting herself. But if she ever did, I have 100% faith in you Bill, that you will find it

And what reaction is that, Harris? The entire shooting lasted about six seconds! Nellie attempted to explain what happened in the Life interview so people like us wouldn't be confusing what she was trying to convey in the past to what we were interpreting her to mean. Had you have read the Life interview, you would be forced to see that it is not me saying this stuff, but the Connally's themselves. Whether the Connally's were ever previously mis-quoted or whether they felt they had previously mis-stated something ... they wanted the record set straight and said so in the interview.

In my previous response concerning Nellie wanting to set the record straight, I took the time to cite Nellie from the instant she saw John first being shot at the moment of the second blast - to buckling over - to recoiling to his right - to slumping down - to her pulling him back towards her .... and all in that order!!! So without the use of sock-puppets to help you better follow the chain of events through Nellie's own words during those few seconds .... she couldn't have done a better job of breaking things down.

Bill Miller

Bill, you seem to be imagining that I said John Connally was infallible or something like that. I never did. I said Nellie was totally consistent throughout her entire life. I hate to think of how many hours you have spent trying to find her contradicting some trivial detail but you obviously couldn't do it.

And why in holy hell would you even care? The shot at 285 is infinitely more important because it settles the conspiracy question once and for all.

Your pretense that you cannot see those reactions is pathetic Bill. Even some of the most hardcore nutters have acknowledged them in mcadams forum. And the ridiculously obvious reason why you have evaded every single significant question I have asked you is that you know you would have to make a fool out of yourself by trying to deny what any sane person can see.

And yes Bill, you did a great job citing Nellie. The only problem is, that you cited her saying exactly what she always said - she heard a "noise", looked back at JFK with his hands up, and then heard another shot - exactly as we see her do in the Zapruder film.

Unfortunately for you however and everyone else who wants to squelch these facts, we also see her look back at the President at 258. And there was NO OTHER point in time in which she could have done that and seen his arms raised. And we see her turn back to her husband and pull him to her at precisely 291. And she told us over and over again, she never looked back at JFK again.

She turned back toward JFK TWICE following 223, Bill - another fact that you don't seem interested in discussing. But she never looked back again after Zapruder frame 285.

[Robert Harris]

The shot at 285 is infinitely more important because it settles the conspiracy question once and for all.

There was no shot at 285

Well then, you should have no problem answering 8 or 9 questions that Bill has been dodging.

How soon can we expect you to do that Duncan?

[Robert Harris]

Oh, and as to your accusation Bill, that I lied about reading the Life article, I have a photocopy of that article in my files that I received at COPA in 1994 and have been a fan of Google Books since it began, so of course I have seen the article there. Since you are so desperate to find a 'gothcha' however, I will freely confess that I have not memorized every one of the literally thousands of articles I have read over the years.

BTW Bill, when did Mrs. Connally say she was "not sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no, no'"?

Would you mind citing her verbatim, Bill?

Oh and one last question. Why in holy hell would you think that a reporter's second hand claim about what John Connally said in 1966 should take precedence over his testimonies which were made under oath in 1963 and again in 1978?

Is that what you call good research Bill? I'd call it desperation

Edited October 26, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Bill Miller]

Why in holy hell would you think that a reporter's second hand claim about what John Connally said in 1966 should take precedence over his testimonies which were made under oath in 1963 and again in 1978?

Is that what you call good research Bill? I'd call it desperation

\

The Harris response above should go on the blooper reel. The reason for this is that there was no "second hand" claim by a reporter ... It was John Connally right there doing the interview with Life Magazine ... the one and only John Connally. Unless there is a new rule out there that I had never heard .... statements made by the person who originally said them are not "second hand" claims.

Bill

[Robert Harris]

Why in holy hell would you think that a reporter's second hand claim about what John Connally said in 1966 should take precedence over his testimonies which were made under oath in 1963 and again in 1978?

Is that what you call good research Bill? I'd call it desperation

\

The Harris response above should go on the blooper reel. The reason for this is that there was no "second hand" claim by a reporter ... It was John Connally right there doing the interview with Life Magazine ... the one and only John Connally. Unless there is a new rule out there that I had never heard .... statements made by the person who originally said them are not "second hand" claims.

Bill

Bill, you don't seem to quite grasp the concept that when a reporter quotes someone, their claim is secnd hand. But why are you dodging my questions?

Why would you take the word of a reporter over Connally's sworn testimonies before the WC and the HSCA, which was corroborated in other interviews including some in which he was televised? You need to stop running Bill and give us a few straight answers. I've lost count of all the questions you've run from. When you are evasive you only prove that you KNOW you are wrong.

And why did you claim that Mrs. Connally said she was "not sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no, no'"? I'm sure you wouldn't just make up a deliberate lie about that would you Bill??

[Bill Miller]

Bill, you don't seem to quite grasp the concept that when a reporter quotes someone, their claim is secnd hand. But why are you dodging my questions?

Why would you take the word of a reporter over Connally's sworn testimonies before the WC and the HSCA, which was corroborated in other interviews including some in which he was televised? You need to stop running Bill and give us a few straight answers. I've lost count of all the questions you've run from. When you are evasive you only prove that you KNOW you are wrong.

I will answer your question with a question .... Do you have any instance of where someone alleged that text in the Connally's Life Magazine interview had mis-quoted them? After all, this interview was to clear up any errors or mis-conceptions pertaining to what they said had happened and when. Please state even one reference ever made that they were mis-represented in that article.

And why did you claim that Mrs. Connally said she was "not sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no, no'"? I'm sure you wouldn't just make up a deliberate lie about that would you Bill??

I must ask that you cite the post where I made the remark.

Bill

Edited October 27, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

Bill, you don't seem to quite grasp the concept that when a reporter quotes someone, their claim is second hand. But why are you dodging my questions?

Why would you take the word of a reporter over Connally's sworn testimonies before the WC and the HSCA, which was corroborated in other interviews including some in which he was televised? You need to stop running Bill and give us a few straight answers. I've lost count of all the questions you've run from. When you are evasive you only prove that you KNOW you are wrong.

I will answer your question with a question ....

I have a better idea Bill. Why don't you answer my question with an answer?

And why did you claim that Mrs. Connally said she was "not sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no, no'"? I'm sure you wouldn't just make up a deliberate lie about that would you Bill??

I must ask that you cite the post where I made the remark.

Sure Bill. I guess you just forgot what you said yesterday

"I had explained, quite clearly in my view, that Nellie said that the second shot she had heard was the one that hit her husband in the back despite her not being sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no,no'."

Bill, when did Nellie say that she was not sure about when her husband said "Oh, no, no, no"?

[Bill Miller]

I have a better idea Bill. Why don't you answer my question with an answer?

I did answer as politely as I could. Life Magazine set down to get the Connally's to review the Zapruder transparencies and to walk the readers through a moment by moment accounting of the event as they experienced it. Your implying somehow that Life mis-quoted the Connally's is just more of some guy making unfounded allegations with nothing to back it up. You have not produced a single shred of evidence that the Connally's ever said that they were mis-represented in that interview. So let me put it another way ... Because the Connally's have never said anywhere that the article of all articles of it's day had misstated or misrepresented what they had said ... I would stand by their interview with Life Magazine over the allegations that some boob would make that says things like nowhere will someone find JFK raising his hand to wave as he did in the Towner film or that his Altgens 6 print is the highest quality print when the details of Lovelady's shirt are not as sharp as the print Josiah Thompson has shared on the JFK forums when talking about the man in the doorway of the TSBD in A6. I don't even have a reference where you have ever accused Life Magazine of mis-representing the Connally's by not quoting them correctly in that famous edition called 'A matter of Reasonable Doubt', but I am sure they would like to hear all about it. I am still waiting for the name of the witness who saw a bullet hit the street during the Towner filming sequence for I do not believe there was such a witness ... I think you have taken a statement that was made about a later moment and attached it to the wave JFK that you believed was the President reacting to a piece of asphalt hitting him in the face. I believe that your allegation is so poorly thought out that you need the Life interview to be a fabrication so to carry on with your nonsense.

Sure Bill. I guess you just forgot what you said yesterday

"I had explained, quite clearly in my view, that Nellie said that the second shot she had heard was the one that hit her husband in the back despite her not being sure when her husband said 'Oh no,no,no'."

Bill, when did Nellie say that she was not sure about when her husband said "Oh, no, no, no"?

I believe that I was referring to a post I had made showing that during one of Nellie's interviews that she faltered when trying to recall if John said 'oh no, no, no' before or after he was shot.

Bill

Edited October 28, 2010 by Bill Miller