Robert Harris's Broken 3rd Floor Daltex Window Theory Blown Out Of The Water

[Bill Miller]

Here is a large print of Altgens #6 ... it's just a little under the clarity of Thompson's best A6 print.

[Robert Harris]

I have not broken the forum rules. Since the warning by Kathy was posted, I have only made one post, the one which you have reported, and which contained ZERO attacks against you, only an opinion of your wrong and uncited statement that you post as a fact.

Now, I suggest you spend less time snitching on others, and sticking to discussing the issues in a civil manner as Kathy suggested.

Ok, Where's the citation where you claim as a fact, that "Both Mrs. Connally and Mrs. Kennedy thought that the shot at 285 hit their respective husbands"

The forum awaits.

If one said that Robert's reading of the evidence is ludicrous - whacked - poor at best - without logic - mind boggling - lacking common sense - and etc., it would be an attack on the things he posted. On the other hand, Robert has called you names directly like idiot and moron, not to mention his foul language and he is reporting you (Duncan) .... that's a hoot!!!

It's not enough that we are entitled to post our conclusions and be open to rebuttal, but Robert goes off on these childish tantrums as if his life depends on you agreeing with him. I'm thinking that the only attention he gets is here having people tell him that his claims don't add up. I recall mentioning the sound of the cycles backfiring and how that could cause people to not recognize the sound of gunfire while others might hear backfire and think they were shots.

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=3&topic_id=45574&mesg_id=45574&listing_type=search Interview With Nellie Connally

Aired November 22, 2003 - 21:00 ET KING: And you turned to him and you say, "You can't say they don't love you."

CONNALLY: Yes. And he grinned that wonderful grin. And he was happy too. And I don't know whether it was seconds or a minute or two, and I heard this noise. KING: Was it a crack?

CONNALLY: Yes. And I wasn't sure that it was a gunshot because the motorcycles had been, you know, backfiring all around us. But I knew it was something and I turned and looked just in time to see his hands fly up to his face. And he just sunk down into the car. Said not a word. He just had a strange look in his eyes and said nothing. (end)

So it seems that not only was my statement about the background noise possibly effecting what witnesses may or may not have thought was gunfire, but again Nellie said in an interview that she actually saw JFK's hands come up.

Bill

"Robert goes off on these childish tantrums as if his life depends on you agreeing with him. I'm thinking that the only attention he gets is here having people tell him that his claims don't add up."

You are also in violation of the forum rules. I'm sorry that you have to resort to childish insults like this Bill. You can insult me a thousand times but that will not make you any less wrong.

It doesn't matter that you found an isolated statement by Mrs. Connally that contradicted her other statements. As I explained to you before, JFK raised his hands to neck level by frame 229. But at that point, Mrs. Connally wasn't turned far enough to even see her husband, let alone President Kennedy. You need to look at this Zapruder film segment instead of continually deleting it.

It is not possible for Mrs. Connally to have seen JFK raising his hands to neck level, Bill. Deleting the animation and evading these facts does not help your cause.

As for your claim that all the witnesses who disagreed with you (which is most of them ) were too confused to know what they heard, that is among the lamest excuses I have ever heard. And that is particularly true of witnesses whose actions can be verified in the films and photos.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

Connally recoiled to his right and yelling out that they are all going to be killed which got Jackie's attention ...

Bill Miller

YES!! You got that one absolutely right. But read her statement again, Bill. Her original recollection was that his screaming drew her attention to him, so she was looking away from her husband when the first of two shots was fired. She believed that because she was looking at Connally when her husband was hit by the first of those shots, she wasn't able to respond quickly enough to pull him down before the second of those shots were fired.

She therefore heard TWO shots AFTER she turned toward Connally circa late 250's - 260. So, the two shots she described were both AFTER she turned toward Connally.

"I used to think if I only had been looking to the right I would have seen the first shot hit him, then I could have pulled him down, and then the second shot would not have hit him. But I heard Governor Connally yelling and that made me turn around, and as I turned to the right my husband was doing this [indicating with hand at neck]. He was receiving a bullet. And those are the only two I remember."

This is just like Nellie. Both of the women heard and visibly reacted to two shots which came AFTER app. 256 and they reacted to them in almost perfect unison with each other and with the Kellerman, Greer and Zapruder. And each of them thought that the 285 shot was the one that hit their respective spouses. (no Duncan, they didn't know the frame number )

Edited November 9, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Bill Miller]

It doesn't matter that you found an isolated statement by Mrs. Connally that contradicted her other statements. As I explained to you before, JFK raised his hands to neck level by frame 229. But at that point, Mrs. Connally wasn't turned far enough to even see her husband, let alone President Kennedy. You need to look at this Zapruder film segment instead of continually deleting it.

It is not possible for Mrs. Connally to have seen JFK raising his hands to neck level, Bill. Deleting the animation and evading these facts does not help your cause.

As for your claim that all the witnesses who disagreed with you (which is most of them ) were too confused to know what they heard, that is among the lamest excuses I have ever heard. And that is particularly true of witnesses whose actions can be verified in the films and photos.

Harris ... I didn't find just one isolated instance where Nellie said that she saw the President raise his hand up - I have given you two. Now I am giving you the third one and it comes from your own erred video ... listen to it carefully and see if Nellie didn't tell the interviewer starting at the 40 second mark than she saw JFK's hands go up to his face ...

Like I said before - your beef is with Nellie. You are so hung up on a bad observation you made that you do not even know what evidence you have provided that disputes your claim.

Bill Miller

Edited November 9, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

And each of them thought that the 285 shot was the one that hit their respective spouses. (no Duncan, they didn't know the frame number )

They didn't know about a shot at frame 285 either, there wasn't one.

Isn't it amazing that the population of the world is currently estimated at 7,840,071,904 and out of that number of human beings, you are the only one dead or alive pushing the ridiculous shot at 285 fiction.

[Bill Miller]

YES!! You got that one absolutely right. But read her statement again, Bill. Her original recollection was that his screaming drew her attention to him, so she was looking away from her husband when the first of two shots was fired. She believed that because she was looking at Connally when her husband was hit by the first of those shots, she wasn't able to respond quickly enough to pull him down before the second of those shots were fired.

She therefore heard TWO shots AFTER she turned toward Connally circa late 250's - 260. So, the two shots she described were both AFTER she turned toward Connally.

Sounds to me that Jackie said she only heard two shots - period! The first being the one that caused her to place her hands on her husband as she seems to be assessing the situation. This action started between Z230 and Z236. The second shot that Jackie mentions sounds like the one that hit JFK in the head and killing him.

I am sorry, I do not agree with your assessment.

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

So what gives with the Youtube stats, Harris??? Did not Nellie say in YOUR POSTED VIDEO that she saw JFK raise his hands up to his face ... Of course she did! And instead of admitting this, you somehow think that posting Youtube poll results that have 105 boobs that mostly rely on Youtube for their information and wouldn't know that Nellie is disputing what you have said is your greatest accomplishment. Nice job!

Bill Miller

[Dean Hagerman]

And Robert Harris has stated that I and other alterationists are crazy

How can you say we are crazy when you can see the limo turn taken out of the Z-film with your own eyes Robert?

How can you push crazy theories like a shot at Z285 yet call an alterationist like myself crazy?

[Bill Miller]

And Robert Harris has stated that I and other alterationists are crazy

How can you say we are crazy when you can see the limo turn taken out of the Z-film with your own eyes Robert?

How can you push crazy theories like a shot at Z285 yet call an alterationist like myself crazy?

Interesting remark ... start a thread on that one ... I'd like to hear why you say that.

Bill

[Robert Harris]

YES!! You got that one absolutely right. But read her statement again, Bill. Her original recollection was that his screaming drew her attention to him, so she was looking away from her husband when the first of two shots was fired. She believed that because she was looking at Connally when her husband was hit by the first of those shots, she wasn't able to respond quickly enough to pull him down before the second of those shots were fired.

She therefore heard TWO shots AFTER she turned toward Connally circa late 250's - 260. So, the two shots she described were both AFTER she turned toward Connally.

Sounds to me that Jackie said she only heard two shots - period! The first being the one that caused her to place her hands on her husband as she seems to be assessing the situation. This action started between Z230 and Z236. The second shot that Jackie mentions sounds like the one that hit JFK in the head and killing him.

I am sorry, I do not agree with your assessment.

Bill Miller

You are once again, wrong.

Mrs. Kennedy stated very clearly in both her WC testimony and in her interview with Theodore White that she did not believe that first noise was a gunshot.

In the Zapruder film we see her trying to push his left arm down after the limo emerged from behind the Stemmons sign and then turn casually away from him to study John Connally. Like many other witnesses, Mrs. Kennedy thought her husband was clowning around then. As I told you before, the early shots were suppressed and the one at 160 was not nearly as loud as the shots at 285 and 312. This is how she described it,

"I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, 'Oh, no, no, no.' "

She never believed that noise was a real gunshot. And btw, she DID hear three shots. Keeping in mind that the real story was what she "used" to believe,

"And it used to confuse me because first I remembered there were three.."

Of course the third was the one that blew tissue and bone out onto the trunk, part of which she retrieved and carried to Parkland hospital.

[Robert Harris]

Ratings from your Youtube " The Driver Shot JFK " fan club mean absolutely nothing.

The postings that Bill has been making, and that are solid and based in fact, mean everything in terms of proving you wrong in all aspects of your fictional scenario.

You need to try to understand what you write and what you say in your own videos before contradicting what you say in your next offering.

There are indeed, some real dummies on Youtube but I have also had hundreds of responses and emails from people who were obviously much more knowledgeable about the case than you and Bill.

But the bottom line is, that your assertion that I am the only person who believes this, is laughably false. Gosh, what a surprise

[Robert Harris]

It doesn't matter that you found an isolated statement by Mrs. Connally that contradicted her other statements. As I explained to you before, JFK raised his hands to neck level by frame 229. But at that point, Mrs. Connally wasn't turned far enough to even see her husband, let alone President Kennedy. You need to look at this Zapruder film segment instead of continually deleting it.

It is not possible for Mrs. Connally to have seen JFK raising his hands to neck level, Bill. Deleting the animation and evading these facts does not help your cause.

As for your claim that all the witnesses who disagreed with you (which is most of them ) were too confused to know what they heard, that is among the lamest excuses I have ever heard. And that is particularly true of witnesses whose actions can be verified in the films and photos.

Harris ... I didn't find just one isolated instance where Nellie said that she saw the President raise his hand up - I have given you two. Now I am giving you the third one and it comes from your own erred video ... listen to it carefully and see if Nellie didn't tell the interviewer starting at the 40 second mark than she saw JFK's hands go up to his face ...

Like I said before - your beef is with Nellie. You are so hung up on a bad observation you made that you do not even know what evidence you have provided that disputes your claim.

Bill Miller

Bill, what is the point in continuing to promote an argument that has already been proven wrong?

Mrs. Connally couldn't possibly have seen JFK raising his hands to neck level. As I explained to you before, he raised his hands to neck level by frame 229. But at that point, Mrs. Connally wasn't turned far enough to even see her husband, let alone President Kennedy. You need to look at this Zapruder film segment instead of continually deleting it.

Responsible researchers ALWAYS go with witnesses' earliest statements because over the years, memories fade and are sometimes altered by reading articles and books. And this was from her sworn testimony before the Warren Commission, which makes it crystal clear that JFK's hands were already raised when she looked back.

"I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck."

So what it all boils down to Bill, is that her earliest and most reliable recollection proves you are wrong and the tiny detail that it was IMPOSSIBLE for her to have seen his hands rise to his neck, sorta puts a little crimp in your theory :D

[Dean Hagerman]

And Robert Harris has stated that I and other alterationists are crazy

How can you say we are crazy when you can see the limo turn taken out of the Z-film with your own eyes Robert?

How can you push crazy theories like a shot at Z285 yet call an alterationist like myself crazy?

Interesting remark ... start a thread on that one ... I'd like to hear why you say that.

Bill

What part?

Robert calling me crazy or the Limo turn being taken out?

I do not want to start another thread on Harris

We have debated the limo turn (It either being taken out or Zappy stopping and then starting filming again) in an older thread, I will try to find it and give it a bump

[Bernice Moore]

And Robert Harris has stated that I and other alterationists are crazy

How can you say we are crazy when you can see the limo turn taken out of the Z-film with your own eyes Robert?

How can you push crazy theories like a shot at Z285 yet call an alterationist like myself crazy?

Interesting remark ... start a thread on that one ... I'd like to hear why you say that.

Bill

What part?

Robert calling me crazy or the Limo turn being taken out?

I do not want to start another thread on Harris

We have debated the limo turn (It either being taken out or Zappy stopping and then starting filming again) in an older thread, I will try to find it and give it a bump

Bill; i have read of late that the Zapruder camera was a wind up one, if true, how could he possibly start and stop the film...any information will be appreciated anyone...thanks...b

[Robert Harris]

And Robert Harris has stated that I and other alterationists are crazy

How can you say we are crazy when you can see the limo turn taken out of the Z-film with your own eyes Robert?

How can you push crazy theories like a shot at Z285 yet call an alterationist like myself crazy?

Interesting remark ... start a thread on that one ... I'd like to hear why you say that.

Bill

What part?

Robert calling me crazy or the Limo turn being taken out?

I do not want to start another thread on Harris

We have debated the limo turn (It either being taken out or Zappy stopping and then starting filming again) in an older thread, I will try to find it and give it a bump

Bill; i have read of late that the Zapruder camera was a wind up one, if true, how could he possibly start and stop the film...any information will be appreciated anyone...thanks...b

Well, there was a stop/start button or trigger on these old cameras. They only ran when you wanted them to.