Is the "Other" film a hoax?

[Bernice Moore]

Bill speaking only for myself, as far as those photo frames , the one of Sitzman being interviewed after,and those of her seen on the sidewalk in front of the tsbd after, were not available a few years ago,

I posted the Sitzman images to David Healy many years ago when he and I were going back and forth about him saying there was not any recognizable images of Zapruder or Sitzman even being in the plaza on the day of the assassination. The gif of her turning around and of her being interviewed - I posted at that time. It was a later date that I think Robin showed Sitzman in front of the TSBD when a discussion was going on about whether Sitzman wore heels that day or not.

Bill

bill; i was not there during that discussion or the posting of said photos for david, many years ago, i imagine i wasn't there at that time, what i have and have seen as i mentioned have been from and since robin posted them..yes i recall the sitzman heels thread which still has not been proven one way or tother,imo one day a photo showing her complete foot,shoe showing that heel will be found, but being a woman, i still say no woman ran up and down once or more than once on that grassy knoll in high heel shoes as she mentioned, unless she wanted a tumble or a possible broken neck, or broken something or tother, we shall pick that one up when the photo is found, hopefully....thanks for the reply b:D

Edited November 20, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Kathleen Collins]

Quote:

i have no way of knowing how the positions of Police motorcyclists Jackson and Chaney were

Martin.

I don't see jackson anywhere in this Z-frame.

Jackson continued NORTH on Houston past ELM? --He didn't negotiate the turn onto Elm. Perhaps he couldn't have without being run over by the X-100...

I thought the missing motorcycle cop turned down the road to the parking lot behind the pergola. I don't know what he did then.

Kathy C

[Chris Davidson]

Quote:

i have no way of knowing how the positions of Police motorcyclists Jackson and Chaney were

Martin.

I don't see jackson anywhere in this Z-frame.

Hi Robin,

Check your email for help with Chaney and Jackson.

Sorry, my server's down right now.

chris

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

i have no way of knowing how the positions of Police motorcyclists Jackson and Chaney were

Martin.

I don't see jackson anywhere in this Z-frame.

Hi Robin,

Check your email for help with Chaney and Jackson.

Sorry, my server's down right now.

chris

Will do Chris.

Cheers.

Robin.

[Martin Hinrichs]

Exellent Martin.

Nice Job

That's exactly what i had in mind.

Using the 4th floor view as a template for your overlays is a very good idea, same angle,height,and view as Elsie's

Cheers.

Robin.

Thank you Robin.

It was exhaustive.

I feel you pain Martin.

It can be brain drainig doing overlays and stabilized GIFS

I have "Uploaded" both images to my galleries Credited : to you

Thanks a lot mate. At some point i will declare in detail why the positions of the vehicles are where i have placed them.

I've seen you uploaded it. That makes the efforts worthwhile.

About Chaney in Zapruder. He is too far too north and almost never visible, but i catched parts of his motorcycle:

best to you

Martin

[Robin Unger]

Thanks Chris / Martin / Bernice

OK so Chaney was the inside right rear motorcycle, and can be seen in Zapruder frames and in Altgens 6

I still don't see Jackson ?

am i missing something.

Jackson is seen side by side with Chaney in Betzner 1

why has he fallen so far back, or is he there, but out wide and not in Zapruders or Altgen's field of view

Edited November 20, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Martin.

I assume your red line ( red light ) is to show the Jackson motorcycle.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Is this Jackson seen to the rear of the follow up car in Betzner 3 just under the R.L.Thornton sign

Edited November 20, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Edited:

Edited November 20, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Martin Hinrichs]

Martin.

I assume your red line ( red light ) is to show the Jackson motorcycle.

Yes Robin, my mistake.

Thanks for the correction

[Martin Hinrichs]

Is this Jackson seen to the rear of the follow up car in Betzner 3 just under the R.L.Thornton sign

Robin, when i look closely at Zapruder frame 186 it appears that Chaney is hidden behind (standing SS Agents) Landis and Ready

from Betzners POV.

So, yes it must be Jackson.

Martin

[Robin Unger]

Martin

I think i finally found Jackson.

Nix.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Bill Miller]

Jack's Badge Man

[Robin Unger]

Bill,

Perhaps you can provide us with a CLEAR photo or film frame that unmistakably and dis-ambiguously proves that Zapruder and Sitzman were, in fact, where they claim to have been that day? I have yet to see ANY visual evidence that supports their claim. There appears to be someone on the pedestal, but it is impossible to determine who that person(s) was, IMO. If you can provide proof...that would help.

That's a good point, Greg ... let us see if we can draw a logical response from the available evidence.

To start with, Zapruder did have at his office following the assassination what is now known as the Zapruder film. Sitzman supports being on the pedestal with Zapruder. Just prior to taking the film, Zapruder got Sitzman to turn around and face him as she stood with the Hester's ... that is truly Sitzman's face on the woman who turns to the camera. The Hester's knew Sitzman and Zapruder if my memory serves me correctly and not once have they ever said that the man and woman on the pedestal was not Abraham Zapruder and Sitzman.

But we want an image that ID's the couple ... for what ever reason I do not know because there will always be someone who will then say that it was possible that look-a-likes could have been used, which means that Zapruder, Sitzman, and both Hester's were part of the plot to have someone take a film that Zapruder could have taken himself. The throw crap at the wall scenario starts to take shape.

Following the shooting, the film record shows the two people on the pedestal getting off of it (Pascall's film catches Zapruder reaching the ground as he dismounts the pedestal). Sitzman and Zapruder or the look-a-likes then enter the shelter where they are met by the Hester's or should we suggest that it really wasn't the Hester's at all, but rather they were substituted with look-a-likes too?

Then in Trask book where I may have seen it ... there is a good clear up close image of Sitzman standing near the pedestal giving an interview to a reporter about what she had just witnessed. So while it may be said that during the shooting there was no up-close clear images of Zapruder or Sitzman's face, the same can be said about that really being Toni Foster on the south pasture. In fact, there is not a good clear image of Betzner, Croft, or Willis taking photos of the assassination ... so now someone can say that the other film shows these witnesses to be someone other than who we thought they were.

If the above sounds silly, then its because it is an extension of the same lack of common sense that would suggest that Zapruder and Sitzman were not on the pedestal when all the evidence points to the contrary. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Bill Miller

Sitzman seen in Skaggs & Sitzman being interviewed while standing at the pedestal

Click on thumbnail to view full size:

Here are two frames i forgot about from the Cook / Cooper Film showing Sitzman and Beatrice Hester

Originally posted by Bernice.

Not sure of the original source ( very nice frames )

Possibly Charles Hester seen on the left of Beatrice. ?

going by the Wiegman frames i would say yes.

Frame showing Beatrice Hester and Marilyn Sitzman

Sitzman can be seen standing near the "Willis 15" position at the corner of the TSBD wall.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Bill Miller]

I wonder how many other film claims were created from someone seeing some of the old reconstruction films that were made? A couple inserts looked to have been added to this piece. It would certainly account for why there were some differences in their independent descriptions.

Bill