Final proof that the mtorcade came to a halt !

[Bernice Moore]

From the Newcomb and Perry book above,Execution I do not buy into the fact that a gun was held outside the window of the ss follow-up car of LBJ;s ss and fired, some do,and that is their choice..there is much information though within, imo..thanks...

Re SS Agent statements, information from Vince Palamara; fyi...

From: "Jessica K. & Vincent M. Palamara" <palamara@telerama.com>

Subject: Agents who believed there was a conspiracy

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998

As of June - 2003, write Vince Palamara at vincebethel@yahoo.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The following agents believed that there was a conspiracy involved in

JFK's death (I use past tense only because most of them are now

deceased):

1)Samuel A. Kinney- Sam told me this three times (he also stated that he

found the notion of conspiracy "plausible" to the HSCA, based offf the

recently-released contact reports available thru the ARRB/ Archives). He

thought Oswald was the lone shooter, although he stated emphatically

that there were no missed shots (!)- he spoke to Connally about this and

THE GOVERNOR AGREED WITH SAM! Sam also told me that the "right rear" of

JFK's head was missing[he later recovered THE piece of the president's

head on the C-130], and that his windshield (of the follow-up car) and

left arm were splattered with blood and brain matter. Finally, whether

hyperbole or not, Sam said "He had no brains left". Sam passed away

7/21/97 while vacationing in Iowa. His wife Hazel told me she regretted

that Sam is now forever unable to tell more...;

2) Roy H. Kellerman- According to his widow June, Roy "accepted that

there was a conspiracy"- this was based on June overhearing Roy's

telephone conversation with someone from the HSCA in approx. 1977 or

1978. As we all know, Roy stated to the WC that "there has to be more

than three shots, gentleman" and that a "flurry of shells" came into the

car. Like Bill Greer, Roy is often added to the list of those witnesses

who reported that the right rear of JFK's head was blasted. The above

information was reported to author Anthony Summers for the Dec. 1994

VANITY FARE, p. 88 [uncredited]; you'll also find it in my book.

Finally, Kellerman's daughter told Harold Weisberg in the 1970's that "I

hope the day will come when these men [Kellerman and Greer*]will be able

to say what they've told their families";

3) Abraham W. Bolden, Sr,- Abe is a firm believer in a conspiracy AND in

Secret Service negligence. Also, Abe is adamant that there was a plot to

kill JFK in Chicago in early November, 1963. I spoke to Bolden twice and

corresponded at length with him between 1993 and the present. bolden is

currently working on his own book with his wife:);

4) Maurice G. Martineau- Abe's boss in the Chicago office, Martineau was

equally adamant to me that a conspiracy took the life of President

Kennedy. He aso told me he finds the work of the HSCA much more valid

than that of the WC. However, when it comes to info. on the Chicago

plot, Martineau is afraid to give me details to this day...;

5) John Norris- a member of the uniformed division of the Secret

Service, Norris is a fervent believer in a conspiracy, although one gets

the impression this is more based on his beliefs than actual knowledge,

but I could be mistaken. Still, his views and beliefs are important for

obvious reasons;

6) *Bill Greer- despite many suspicions I have about Greer's conduct on

11/22-11/23/63, he is a "default" addition to this list. In addition to

Kellerman's daughter's comments mentioned above, he is also among those

witnesses who, at least indirectly, gave testimony that the right rear

of JFK's head was missing. Also, to the HSCA, he had much misgivings

about the Single Bullet Theory. Still, this could just be guilty

conscience- he expressed much guilt to Jackie Kennedy concerning his

awful performance on Elm Street (which he would later deny to the FBI

and the WC; even Greer's son Richard was adamant to me that his father

had absolutely no survivor's guilt, despite these documented, very early

guilt feelings. Even Dave Poers and Ken O'donnell document Greer's early

remorse ["Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye'; see also Powers interview by

Charles Kuralt, 11/22/88 on video];

Also, Paul E. Landis, Jr., an agent in the follow-up car who, like agent

Hill, was assigned to Jackie, stated twice that shots came from the

front [18H755; 18H759];

In addition, agent Thomas "Lem" Johns, who rode in the V.P. follow-up

car, told the HSCA that "the first two [shots] sounded like they were on

the side of me towards the grassy knoll" [RIF 180-10074-10079];

Finally, SAIC of the Dallas office Forrest V. Sorrels, riding in the

lead car, believed the shots came from the front [Mark Lane's "Rush to

Judgement" film- interview with Orville Nix, a good friend of Sorrels'

who worked in the Dallas office as a maintenance worker]. I spoke very

briefly to Sorrels on two occasions in 1992, a year before he died- he

would not clarify anything...

Vince Palamara

----------------------------- end ------------------------------------

Edited July 9, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

Subject: Re: Speed of JFK Limousine Date: 02 Aug 1999 17:33:12 GMT From: sfz@aol.com (Sfz) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk

credit Steve zeigler........Speed of Limousine..

I'm reposting just the smoothed speed figures, since the multicolumn version was pretty messy. I can now say that the speed of the car is almost certainly related to Greer turning around to look in the back seat. I've written before that there are two turns by Greer: F285: Driver Greer appears to be looking in the rear view mirror F291-5: driver takes a very quick glance to the rear F302-5: Driver twists to look into back of car F316: driver begins turning back to front, and will duck forward In the smoothed data we can see very clearly that the car actually goes through two decelerations, both of essentially the same rate (of between 3.6 and 5 mph/sec) with each episode lasting about a quarter of a second. Although Greer is in shadow, we can verify what direction he is looking by comparing the outline of his head - an oblong outline means his head is looking forward or backward, and a rounded, smaller outline means he is looking towards the camera. Thus I repeat: the car slowed down when Greer turned to look into the back seat. I slowed down because the act of twisting to look back caused his right (accelerator) foot to lift. I also note that Greer essentially stomped the accelerator at F338, yielding an acceleration of about 11 mph/sec - not a bad zero-to-sixty time for a big car. The force on Jackie as she rose would have been terrific, especially as she was facing rear and without warning or support. It is amazing to me that she didn't slide right out of the car - and might have had Greer not let up apparently because he saw Jackie and perhaps Hill on the trunk. Frame smoothed speed 260 263 11.7 266 11.3 269 11.8 272 11.6 275 11.6 278 11.4 281 11.1 284 11.2 287 11.1 290 10.8 293 10.3 296 9.8 299 9.4 302 9.5 305 9.5 308 9.7 311 9.3 314 8.9 317 8.7 320 8.3 323 8.4 326 8.3 329 8.5 332 8.6 335 8.8 338 8.9 341 9.3 344 10.1 347 11.3 350 11.8 353 12.6 356 13.2 359 13.9 362 14.4 365 15.0 368 15.7 371 16.3 374 16.7 377 16.8 380 17.1 Note: after F380 the car stops accelerating for a bit, apparently to let Hill and Jackie get situated, and then it takes off again. regards Steve Zeigler

[Daniel Gallup]

What's the use of studying the speed of the limo and wondering why Jackie didn't fly out of the car if the film is not a true representation of what happened? If Zeigler is surprised Jackie did not slide out of the car, maybe he too should doubt the film's integrity. Physics is physics.

[Mike Rago]

Bernice,

You said Greer was trained to zig-zag. Would you know the orientation of the limo in the street at the time of the headshots?

[Robin Unger]

Muchmore headshot frame

Edited July 10, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Muchmore GIF Stabilized.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

[Robin Unger]

Zapruder Stabilized headshot.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Watch the stabilized GIF above

I see what appears to be a long piece of flesh dangling down at the front of kennedy's head.

it appears to momentarily cover a portion of jackies blue colar

Edited July 10, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Chris Davidson]

Bernice,

You said Greer was trained to zig-zag. Would you know the orientation of the limo in the street at the time of the headshots?

Mike,

The white object in the grass is the fixed reference point.

Note the orientation of the "limo trunk to curbline" as it moves forward.

Doesn't like my gif!!!!

To come later.

chris

Edited July 11, 2012 by Chris Davidson