Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Thomas Graves]

BORIS AND NATASHA HUNT

MOOSE AND SQUIRREL

NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick

Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with

her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.

A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from

Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could

return to the US. [interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997]

Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald

went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped

set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow.[WC Document 5,

p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63] Marina had

momentarily confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whom

she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in

1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of

possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both

returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect

harmony, were both working for the CIA.

--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799

Yes, Jim. I find that fascinating and worthy of research. But I don't see how it lends credence to the Harvey and Lee doppelganger-from-childhood theory.

I think many people were mistakenly remembered as Oswald, especially after the assassination.

That doesn't mean they were all impersonating him, or he them.

--Tommy

Edited June 27, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

Yes, Jim. I find that fascinating and worthy of research. But I don't see how it lends credence to the Harvey and Lee doppelganger-from-childhood theory.

Believe whatever you want! The Thought Police, whatever else we've been through, still are not in charge.

I think the evidence shows that "Lee Harvey Oswald" worked for U.S. Intelligence....

.... and that there were at least two guys sharing the same name and job description.

EVERYONE, including you, is free to disagree. I don't care!

But the HIT SQUADS clearly at work here on EF against Harvey & Lee remind me that John A. seems, quite obviously, to be on to something dangerous!

[Jim Hargrove]

Forgot to mention that the following is posted here, with permission of the writer, from a post made by Albert Doyle on a different forum, right after he read John Armstrong's updated "The Two Landesbergs" essay. John's new write-up can be read right here:

===================== QUOTE ON ===========================

Armstrong is a very good researcher despite what some xxxxxs allege.

This is from the post-assassination period where intel was now in its killing witnesses phase. So this shows the intel depth of the actor Landesberg because he is now very likely attempting to frame Fowler or even kill him. So you can pretty much plumb the depth of SR Landesberg and therefore interpolate his relationship to Oswald from this. If SR Landesberg is doing dirty post assassination ops like this he's deep-in and operational. He exists at the level of Armstrong's theory.

The student SH Landesberg knew too much too soon and had information he couldn't have had unless he was associated with the spook work he exposed. Doubters would have to explain how exactly a crazy student would know all this business otherwise? (The xxxxxs will say "It isn't up to me to prove anything") SH Landesberg had no reason to know all this 8 hours after the assassination. The only way he could have known is if somebody told him or he experienced it himself.

It is silly to deny this because the combination of SH Landesberg knowing this stuff only 8 hours after the assassination, plus SR Landesberg admitting it was a mistake to ever get involved with Oswald, and the fact the admission that Perry was from El Paso, Texas came from an FBI interview with SH Landesberg, all creates an inescapable evidentiary conclusion. An undeniable convergence of evidence. Deniers are playing games because obviously Marine records will show SH Landesberg, SR Landesberg, Oswald, and Perry all in the Marines together. SH Landesberg had Florida hotel information only a person who knew SR Landesberg could have known. And there's only one Perry from El Paso who was stationed at Barstow who would match with all this, so the wishy-washy evasions being used to get around this defy the obvious. There's only one Earl Eugene Perry who could have been in the Marines in 1956 and ended up at the Barstow supply station in 1963.

Also, it would appear the Village Voice reporters had much more knowledge of Lee Harvey Oswald and red beard Landesberg than they let on to. Plus, the WMCA radio host Barry Gray specifically told FBI that L'eandes and Rizzuto were definitely different people. FBI ignored this and made them the same person. You can't deny, wish, wash, or weasel around that solid fact if you are genuinely seeking the truth. There's clear evidence of a cover-up here even though some are trying to keep your attention focused on minutia.

========================== QUOTE OFF ===========================

Please feel free to read "The Two Landesbergs" by John Armstrong at this link:

http://harveyandlee.net/Landesberg/Landesbergs.html

[Thomas Graves]

Yes, Jim. I find that fascinating and worthy of research. But I don't see how it lends credence to the Harvey and Lee doppelganger-from-childhood theory.

Believe whatever you want! The Thought Police, whatever else we've been through, still are not in charge.

I think the evidence shows that "Lee Harvey Oswald" worked for U.S. Intelligence....

.... and that there were at least two guys sharing the same name and job description.

EVERYONE, including you, is free to disagree. I don't care!

But the HIT SQUADS clearly at work here on EF against Harvey & Lee remind me that John A. seems, quite obviously, to be on to something dangerous!

Gee, Jim, I don't care that you don't care what I think. How do you like those apples?

As far as "The hit squads clearly at work here on the EF against Harvey and Lee remind me that Armstrong seems, quite obviously, to be on to something dangerous!," should I try using "reverse psychology" on you instead, and praise his mistakes rather than pointing them out?

Don't get all paranoid on us, Jim.

BTW, "seems, quite obviously" is a contradiction in terms.

Have you corrected the little mistake yet that I found on your website?

--Tommy

Edited June 27, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Bernie Laverick]

Bumped for Steven Gaal.

The June 1962 date is mentioned on that evil, evil document known as Cunningham Exhibit No. 2, Steve. Or is it 2-A?

You know, after Oswald told her on 10/10/62 that he had taken a battery of tests in Fort Worth in June (an easy month for him to remember as that's when he had arrived in Fort Worth, Texas, from Minsk, USSR) and she therefore wrote in the "comments' section, "GATB in Fort Worth -- June 1962."

Did you expect her to write on Cunningham Exhibit No. 4, "I requested today and received by teletype from Fort Worth the GABT results which this important-to-document future assassin doppelganger says he took there in June, 1962" ?

Why would it have been important for her to document her verification of the date of his test in Fort Worth if he had taken it only a few months earlier and told her the truth about the date, anyway?

--Tommy

There was no need for her to testify as to why she had written "GATB in Fort Worth -- June 1962" because no one asked her about it. Maybe there were lots of more important questions to ask her at the time. She was kind of a hostile witness, anyway, and didn't volunteer a whole lot of information. It was like pulling teeth with her. Why should she volunteer that information in particular?

PS Would one of my "tag team partners" Greg, Tracy, or Bernie please take over now? I'm starting to get a headache from trying to make sense out of his graphically and grammatically-challenged posts...

Aren't we all one 'COINTELPRO entity' anyway?

It is pointless arguing with Gaal. At least the others can all string a sentence together.

Steven, if English isn't your first language then accept my apologies. But if it is then seriously...book a night course in English!

But to make a typo on the very date in question, (that is 4/62 not of 4/22 as you wrote), in a post where you rule out a typo as being an explanation is, once again, premium quality irony.

You and Dawn will be on the subs bench next week at this rate.

I do wonder (after 50 odd pages) whether those who oppose H&L should now let this thread stand as its nemesis and allow readers, lurkers, researchers and members to make up their own minds on the rebuttal of this silly nonsense. Though they've pretty much rebutted it themselves!

Readers will contrast the sober minded objections to H&L against the aggressive and fanatical zeal of its well organised and well funded campaign.

Most will smell an agenda to divert and distract. They will see this thread as proof of its success. Because for all of their fantasy dual reality world of spooks under everyone's beds, and doppelgangers, with doppelganger parents embroiled in some elaborate Cold War espionage plot etc....they tell us nothing, absolutely nothing, about who killed JFK, or how it may have been done.

That issue gets overlooked every time this subject gets raised.

I sometimes think we are feeding the beast. Our intervention is probably giving the whole theory a prominence it doesn't deserve. After ten years banging away on this forum they have found only 8 who believe it has merit, and half of those have major issues with one or more aspects of the theory.

No doubt the MSM will crawl all over H&L come 2017; they'll be knocking on Fetzer's door too, and they'll be getting Cinque to recreate his manic Lovelady pose on the TSBD doorway. They'll all be out in force whatever we do or say on here.

The only hope is new fresh research, with sharper angles and fact-filled fleshed out narratives; that ditches the 'theory first - facts later' approach and starts again, from the bottom, with no slavish adherence to any preconceived ideas, and no taking anything for granted. It needs researchers to say "Whoops, I got that wrong there" every now and then when presented with more credible evidence and it needs to reject, in its entirety, the WC account of anything whatsoever to do with LHO

This approach has achieved massive results at ROKC particularly over the dismantling of both the Baker encounter and new research highlighting BWF's damning involvement.

Greg, how many people have you seen come on here because they were inspired by what they had learned about H&L? Where are they? We've been arguing with the same tiny little group for years. They have not progressed this theory by one inch and nor have they won any converts, other than the eight mentioned, in the TEN YEARS this thread has been active.

Doesn't that say something?

Personally, I think your work here is done.

It's distracting you from your 'proper job'!

[Jim Hargrove]

While everyone else is arguing, Please visit Greg Parker's FRANKENSTEIN OSWALD home page right here:

http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection_Photo_Evolution.html

AND kindly take a look at the BRAND NEW TWO STEVE LANDESBERGS page here

http://harveyandlee.net/Landesberg/Landesbergs.html

We're still awaiting W. Tracy's Two Landesbergs rebuttal page. We're hearing great things from W. Tracy about it! Sorry to see that W. Tracy's Landesberg page is currently down! Good luck W. Tracy!!!

[Greg Parker]

Bumped for Steven Gaal.

The June 1962 date is mentioned on that evil, evil document known as Cunningham Exhibit No. 2, Steve. Or is it 2-A?

You know, after Oswald told her on 10/10/62 that he had taken a battery of tests in Fort Worth in June (an easy month for him to remember as that's when he had arrived in Fort Worth, Texas, from Minsk, USSR) and she therefore wrote in the "comments' section, "GATB in Fort Worth -- June 1962."

Did you expect her to write on Cunningham Exhibit No. 4, "I requested today and received by teletype from Fort Worth the GABT results which this important-to-document future assassin doppelganger says he took there in June, 1962" ?

Why would it have been important for her to document her verification of the date of his test in Fort Worth if he had taken it only a few months earlier and told her the truth about the date, anyway?

--Tommy

There was no need for her to testify as to why she had written "GATB in Fort Worth -- June 1962" because no one asked her about it. Maybe there were lots of more important questions to ask her at the time. She was kind of a hostile witness, anyway, and didn't volunteer a whole lot of information. It was like pulling teeth with her. Why should she volunteer that information in particular?

PS Would one of my "tag team partners" Greg, Tracy, or Bernie please take over now? I'm starting to get a headache from trying to make sense out of his graphically and grammatically-challenged posts...

Aren't we all one 'COINTELPRO entity' anyway?

It is pointless arguing with Gaal. At least the others can all string a sentence together.

Steven, if English isn't your first language then accept my apologies. But if it is then seriously...book a night course in English!

But to make a typo on the very date in question, (that is 4/62 not of 4/22 as you wrote), in a post where you rule out a typo as being an explanation is, once again, premium quality irony.

You and Dawn will be on the subs bench next week at this rate.

I do wonder (after 50 odd pages) whether those who oppose H&L should now let this thread stand as its nemesis and allow readers, lurkers, researchers and members to make up their own minds on the rebuttal of this silly nonsense. Though they've pretty much rebutted it themselves!

Readers will contrast the sober minded objections to H&L against the aggressive and fanatical zeal of its well organised and well funded campaign.

Most will smell an agenda to divert and distract. They will see this thread as proof of its success. Because for all of their fantasy dual reality world of spooks under everyone's beds, and doppelgangers, with doppelganger parents embroiled in some elaborate Cold War espionage plot etc....they tell us nothing, absolutely nothing, about who killed JFK, or how it may have been done.

That issue gets overlooked every time this subject gets raised.

I sometimes think we are feeding the beast. Our intervention is probably giving the whole theory a prominence it doesn't deserve. After ten years banging away on this forum they have found only 8 who believe it has merit, and half of those have major issues with one or more aspects of the theory.

No doubt the MSM will crawl all over H&L come 2017; they'll be knocking on Fetzer's door too, and they'll be getting Cinque to recreate his manic Lovelady pose on the TSBD doorway. They'll all be out in force whatever we do or say on here.

The only hope is new fresh research, with sharper angles and fact-filled fleshed out narratives; that ditches the 'theory first - facts later' approach and starts again, from the bottom, with no slavish adherence to any preconceived ideas, and no taking anything for granted. It needs researchers to say "Whoops, I got that wrong there" every now and then when presented with more credible evidence and it needs to reject, in its entirety, the WC account of anything whatsoever to do with LHO

This approach has achieved massive results at ROKC particularly over the dismantling of both the Baker encounter and new research highlighting BWF's damning involvement.

Greg, how many people have you seen come on here because they were inspired by what they had learned about H&L? Where are they? We've been arguing with the same tiny little group for years. They have not progressed this theory by one inch and nor have they won any converts, other than the eight mentioned, in the TEN YEARS this thread has been active.

Doesn't that say something?

Personally, I think your work here is done.

It's distracting you from your 'proper job'!

Right now I wish I had some dancing emoticons to acknowledge the simple elegant beauty of this post. That's what dancing emoticons were really meant for.

[Greg Parker]

While everyone else is arguing, Please visit Greg Parker's tribute to Harvey and Lee right here

http://gregparke4.wix.com/hardlyleedotnut

Good idea, Jim. Thanks!

[W. Tracy Parnell]

While everyone else is arguing, Please visit Greg Parker's FRANKENSTEIN OSWALD home page right here:

http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection_Photo_Evolution.html

AND kindly take a look at the BRAND NEW TWO STEVE LANDESBERGS page here

http://harveyandlee.net/Landesberg/Landesbergs.html

We're still awaiting W. Tracy's Two Landesbergs rebuttal page. We're hearing great things from W. Tracy about it! Sorry to see that W. Tracy's Landesberg page is currently down! Good luck W. Tracy!!!

It took me two months to write the original article, so it may take a while for this rebuttal as well. In the meantime check out the original article (which is working fine) at:

http://wtracyparnell.com/the-hoaxster-and-the-conspiracy-theorists/

BTW, excellent thoughts by Bernie and Greg and Thomas.

Edited June 27, 2015 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Paul Trejo]

BORIS AND NATASHA HUNT

MOOSE AND SQUIRREL

...It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect harmony, were both working for the CIA.

--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799

Well, Jim, it's just not a strong argument. Insofar as Marina's family was in USSR intelligence, that is not really proof that Marina herself was a teenage prodigy in the KGB who could speak English fluently and fake non-speaking.

That just reaches too far. Marina was a pharmacy graduate and clerk. That's all we really have. To stretch from her knowing a few polite words in English at a party (i.e. no official detail of her English skills is offered) all the way into a full-fledged "sensitive" interest, reaches too far.

Webster and Oswald were both working for the ONI as "dangles," according to former CIA Agent Victor Marchetti, and that's an adequate explanation for the proximity of Oswald to the CIA. It should be obvious from the downgrade of his Marine discharge that the ONI and CIA both turned down Oswald's application after his probationary period in the USSR.

Actually, Lee Harvey Oswald was a pauper who could hardly hold down a steady job. He was desperate for a paramilitary job (especially in the CIA) and he associated with desperate people because of it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 28, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

From Harvey and Lee, selected pages from 707-738:

The Texas Employment Commission

In 1963 the Texas Employment Commission (TEC) was divided into districts

according to population density. The Dallas district encompassed Dallas County, the

Fort Worth district encompassed Tarrant County, and in the thinly populated areas of

West Texas TEC districts encompassed several counties. In Dallas the industrial office

of the TEC was located at 1206 Ross Avenue where employees Donald Brooks, Laura

Kittrell, and Mrs. Harlan Brown helped applicants find factory-type jobs. The clerical.

sales. and professional office of the TEC was located at 1025 Elm Street where Helen

Cunningham, Robert L. Adams, A.K. Sayre, and Louise Latham helped people find

clerical and office jobs. The TEC claims office was located at 2210 Main Street where

Harry Sanderson and Pauline Elrod helped people file in-state unemployment claims

while Henry McCluskey helped people file out-of-state claims.

NOTE: Mrs. Harlan Brown was the wife of Dallas FBI Agent Harlan Brown and also

worked for the TEC, but was never interviewed by the FBI or Warren Commission.

When an applicant registered with the TEC a Linedex card was completed

which listed the applicant's name, address, phone number, social security number, oc-

cupation codes, report date, office number, and the date and time of their scheduled

visits. Cards containing the names of all applicants currently registered with a particu-

lar office were kept by the receptionist. But Linedex cards created for Lee Harvey Oswald

were not published in the Warren Volumes from either the Fort Worth or Dallas office.

After registering job applicants were first given a series of tests to determine

their interests and aptitude and then interviewed by a counselor. Individual applications

(form E-13) were filled out for each type of job the individual was seeking, such as in-

dustrial, clerical, warehouse, photographic, etc., and each job was identified by a unique

code. Fort Worth counselor Annie Laurie Smith interviewed (Harvey) Oswald on two

occasions in 1962, but was never questioned by the Warren Commission. Counselors Donald

Brooks, Laura Kittrell, and other counselors in Dallas interviewed Oswald and created

numerous job application forms, but were never interviewed by the Commission. Following

the assassination all of these forms were turned over to the FBI but only one, an appli-

cation for a clerical position, was published in the Warren Volumes (Cunningham Ex. No.

1 & 1-A). The remainder of the TEC forms disappeared while in FBI custody.

NOTE: Numerous TEC application forms were filled out for Oswald and a few were

listed on Cunningham Ex. No. 4 and identified with codes "O-X3, O.X6, O-X7.1, 1-X1.1,

l-X2, 1-X4, but disappeared."

After interviewing job applicants, counselors recorded notes of their interviews

on counseling cards, which were turned over to the FBI after the assassination. Helen

Cunningham was interviewed by the Warren Commission and said that all of her coun-

seling records were missing from Oswald's file (a card from 1962), except one. 2 Irving Statman,

the assistant district director of the TEC office in Dallas, was also interviewed by the

Commission and said that all of Oswald's counseling records were missing from the Dallas

office. 3 The counseling cards disappeared after being turned over to the FBI, and there

is no indication the Warren Commission made any attempt to locate them.

After counseling an applicant was interviewed by a job placement interviewer

who recorded notes of the each interview on application forms E-13. Robert L. Adams,

Louise Latham, and others interviewed Oswald, but never testified before the Warren Com-

mission.

When a worker lost his or her job they visited the TEC claims office and filled

out an application for unemployment benefits. While unemployed they were required

to fill out a form each week which listed the locations where they had applied for work,

and then meet with a claims counselor. Oswald met with claims counselors Harry

Sanderson, Henry McCluskey, and others who were never interviewed by the Commission.

Oswald's weekly visits to the claims office and the dates of his unemployment

claims were recorded on TEC claim form B-3A. This in-state form was published in the

Warren Volumes as Cunningham Ex. No. 3, but the out-of-state unemployment claims

forms were not published. A small portion of one of Oswald's out of state claims forms

was cut from the original and published at the bottom of page 403 in Vol 19 (shown be-

low Cunningham Ex. No 3 ).

After the assassination most of the TEC's records for Oswald, including

Linedex cards, GATB tests (General Aptitude Test Batteries), several counseling cards,

numerous application cards, and interstate claims cards, were turned over to the FBI.

Dozens of documents disappeared and only 4 were published in the Warren Volumes. The War-

ren Commission did not interview a single TEC employee who had both interviewed

and remembered Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963.

[….]

Laura Kittrell's first meeting with Harvey Oswald

Laura Kittrell was the daughter of Bill Kittrell, a prominent local politician and

former secretary of the Texas Democratic Party, who was personally acquainted with

Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Sam Rayburn, Lyndon Johnson, John F. Kennedy,

and numerous other national political figures. Laura had worked at the Texas Employ-

ment Commission (TEC) since 1950 and, by October 1963, was a counselor in the in-

dustrial office at 1206 Ross Avenue.

In early October (probably October 8th) Laura was interviewing a colored

woman who wanted to quit domestic employment and find work as a trainee in an elec-

tronics factory. During the interview the woman told Laura that she used to work as a

maid for a man named Murray Chotiner in California. [OCT, 63-04]

The two women's conversation was overheard by a young man sitting at the

desk of counselor Donald Brooks, who's desk was in front of Laura's. After completing

the interview with Mr. Brooks the young man, wearing a black leather jacket, stood with

three other people against a wall in the waiting area and watched as Laura continued

to interview the woman. Laura recalled that one of the people was a short woman who

was very pregnant, had blond hair, and wore no makeup. The second person was a man

similar in appearance to the young man who spoke with Mr. Brooks. Laura was unaable

to remember a description of the third person.

NOTE: Brooks told the Warren Commission that Oswald was reluctant to accept em-

ployment in the industrial field which consisted primarily of factory jobs. 41

After Laura completed her interview the young man walked over to her desk

and said, "Excuse me, I don't mean to be butting in, or anything like that, but didn't I

hear that colored woman tell you that she had worked in California for Murray

Chotiner?" Laura said, "Look, I know this is going to sound pretty silly to you, since you

have been listening, and no doubt have heard practically everything said, but this is a

government office, and there is a rule here that anything a person says at an interview

is supposed to be confidential. So I can't answer your question." The young man said,

"Well, I'll be damned," and pounded his hand on Laura's desk with such force that her

flower vase tipped over spilling water down the side of her desk. The young man then

left without saying a word and joined his friends near the elevator.[OCT, 63-05]

NOTE: Attorney Murray Chotiner was virtually unknown outside of California in

1963. On October 7, 1955 Lee Harvey Oswald delivered a note to Warren Easton High

School that was found in Oswald's school file after the assassination. The note read,

"Becaus (sic) we are moving to San Diego in the middle of this month Lee must quit school

now. Also, please send by him any papers such as his birth certificate that you may have.

Thank you. Sincirely (sic) ..... Mrs. M. Oswald. "42 If Harvey Oswald moved to Califor-

nia in 1955, it could explain how he knew about Chotiner.

Harvey Oswald returned to Mary Bledsoe's home around 2:30pm and remained

in her home for the rest of the afternoon and evening. 43

[ …. ]

Laura's first interview with Harvey Oswald

A few days after Laura Kittrell spoke with Harvey Oswald about "Murray

Chotiner," she received a call from Mrs. Pauline Elrod at the unemployment compen-

sation office. Mrs. Elrod said, "I am sending you a Mr. Oswald, 0-s-w-a-l-d, to be

reinterviewed." Mrs. Elrod told Laura that Oswald had made a mistake on his claim

form and as a result his unemployment check was being held up. She said that he re-

cently lived in New Orleans and worked in a warehouse loading merchandise with a

forklift. Mrs. Elrod was concerned about Oswald because his wife was about to have a

baby (Marina delivered Rachel on October 20, 1963) and he was broke. Mrs. Elrod asked

Laura to talk with Oswald and see if she could "put him down for some other kinds of

work" and possibly send him for an interview in the afternoon.49 [OCT,63-06] Laura recalled

that she interviewed Oswald during the time the Texas State Fair was running.

NOTE: The 1963 Texas State Fair ran from October 5 to 20th. 50

A short while later a young man wearing a black motorcycle jacket appeared and

took a seat in the waiting area. Laura recognized the young man as the person who had

previously asked her about Murray Chotiner, and remembered that he was clean-

shaven, his hair was neatly cut, and his fingernails were clean. After introducing herself

Laura asked the young man how he knew the name "Murray Chotiner." When Oswald

failed to respond she asked, "Did you work for Murray Chotiner in California?" Once

again Oswald failed to answer but remarked, "He's a crook." Laura wondered how

Oswald could have known the name of a little-known political figure in another state

unless he, like the colored woman, worked for Chotiner in California.

NOTE: In the 1940's Chotiner defended Meyer Lansky, Bugsy Siegel and other mob-

connected people. In 1946 Chotiner became a consultant on Richard Nixon's campaign

staff and in 1950 arranged a fund raising dinner for Nixon's Senatorial Campaign from

members of Lansky's syndicate. 51 From 1949-1952 Chotiner defended clients in 221

organized crime cases, and, by 1963, had become a highly successful Beverly Hills attor-

ney.

When Laura Kittrell interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald in October 1963, it was many

years before Murray Chotiner came to national attention when Richard Nixon was in

the White House.

In the 1970's Chotiner was named as special counsel for the Committee to Re-Elect the

President (CREEP) and also worked in the "dirty tricks" department with Marvin

Liebman and William R Buckley. When George McGovern and Nixon were running/or

President in 1972, Chotiner was the man who hired Lucianne Goldberg as a ''journal-

ist" to travel with McGovern s campaign. Goldberg said, "They were looking for really

dirty stuff-who was sleeping with whom, what the Secret Service men were doing with the

stewardess, who was smoking pot on the plane, that sort of thing."52 It was Goldberg who

learned that McGovern's running mate, Senator Thomas Eagleton, had received elec-

troshock treatments 20 years earlier. This revelation was used as a campaign issue to show

that McGovern had poor judgment in choosing a vice-president and was indecisive. At

the height of the Watergate scandal Chotiner was killed in a hit-and-run automobile ac-

cident, and no one was brought to justice.

Laura's first impression of Oswald caused her to write a notation on his appli-

cation that he used to work for Chotiner in California. After Laura turned in his appli-

cation she realized that she had made a mistake but was unable to find the application

to make the necessary correction.

While interviewing Oswald a Cuban man, who spoke no English, handed Laura

a card with directions to a job interview. Laura tried to help the man and spoke with him

in her "Tex-Mex" brand of Spanish. After the man left she had a brief discussion with

Oswald about the Cuban situation and soon realized that he knew a lot about the Cu-

ban situation.

Oswald told Laura, "You know, your Spanish isn't half bad." Laura replied, "Oh,

you speak Spanish?" Oswald replied, "Oh, I speak three languages ..... Russian .... .I've

been to Russia. Matter of fact, married a Russian girl." When Laura said, "Tell me, what

did you like best about Russia?" Oswald replied, "The opera!"

Oswald's answer convinced Laura that he had been to Russia. She said, "I have

read about this art museum in Leningrad where they have the great French Impression-

ists stacked in the basement." Oswald replied, "I've never been to Leningrad .... .I was

in Moscow for sometime and to ..... (Oswald named a town which Laura could not re-

member). You see, I had this job in a factory there .... .I worked for months in this elec-

tronics factory in ..... (name not remembered by Laura). I was taking these little bitty

metal parts and doing something with them."

Laura suggested to Oswald that he accept any type of job because he had been

unemployed for months. When Oswald expressed his desire to find a white-collar job

in downtown Dallas, Laura said that he would be wasting his time. Oswald replied, "I

used to sell shoes (Dolly Shoe in New Orleans?) and that is white-collar experience, isn't

it?" He then told Laura about working in an office in California when he was 16 years

old.

NOTE: Once again the note of October 7, 1955 found in Oswald's file at Warren Easton

comes to mind: "Becaus (sic) we are moving to San Diego in the middle of this month .... . "

53 A few days after this note was written Harvey Oswald dropped out of Warren Easton

and probably moved to California.

Oswald explained, "It was before I went into the Marines, even. It was when I

was just sixteen. I had this messenger-boy job in California. It was a motor-scooter

messenger-boy job, but I worked in the office too, filing and taking care of mail. It was

for an investment company and I worked there six months. The name of it was the 'ETI

Realty Company' and it was in . . ... (Oswald told her the name of the town in California, which

she thought was 'ETI Realty')." [OCT, 63-07] Laura thought it was the same town the colored

maid had mentioned as the place where she had worked for Murray Chotiner (Beverly

Hills). She said to Oswald, "The ETI Realty Company . . .. .I thought you said it was an

investment company." He replied, "It was, but it was also an investment company."

As Oswald sat quietly at her desk Laura completed an application for office work

and included the full name and address of the company that she remembered as "ETI

Realty." She then forwarded the application to the TEC clerical office a t 1025 Elm

Street, but the application disappeared.

Laura then filled out another application for Oswald, for temporary warehouse

work, and mistakenly wrote on the bottom of the application, "Worked 6 months for the

Murray Chotiner Investment Company .... .in 1956 (Laura forgot that Oswald told her that

he had not worked for Chotiner)." She coded the application " 9-88.40" (order-filler/

warehouseman) and forwarded it to the West Dallas Labor Office, but this application also

disappeared.

NOTE: Following the assassination the TEC provided the FBI with their entire file on

Lee Harvey Oswald, but the Warren Commission received only a few documents which

they published in the 26 Volumes (including Cunningham Exhibits 1, 1-A, 2, 2 -A, 3, 3-

A, 4,). The applications filled out by Laura Kittrell (temporary warehouse work-code

9-88.40), are some of the numerous TEC documents that disappeared while in FBI cus-

tody.

Laura also recalled that Oswald had a "sketchy background in offset printing"

(Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall) and suggested that he pursue that line of work. After filling out

an application for print-shop work and scheduling General Aptitude Test Batteries

(GATB), Laura took him to TEC placement counselor Mrs. Saenz. After speaking with

Mrs. Saenz, Oswald returned to see Laura and told her he had been given a job refer-

ral for the following morning (October 11?).

NOTE: The Warren Commission never questioned Mrs. Saenz.

After concluding one of the longest interviews she ever had, which lasted one

hour and forty-two minutes, Laura telephoned Mrs. Elrod and told her about Oswald's

job referral the following morning and gave her the code revisions.

NOTE: Laura Kittrell knew how much time she spent interviewing Oswald because her

boss kept track of the time. The Warren Commission never questioned Laura Kittrell, her

boss, or Pauline Elrod.

A few days later Helen Cunningham, who had been one of Oswald's counselors

in October 1962, informed Laura that Oswald's application for office work was already

on file and that he had previously taken the GATB tests in Fort Worth.

On October 10 the JOBCO Employment Agency set up an interview for Oswald

with the DeVilbiss Company on Irving Blvd. Oswald was supposed to have been inter-

viewed by DeVilbiss employee Jim Friel at 1:30pm, but there was no indication that

he kept the appointment.54 He may have missed the 1:30pm appointment because of

his lengthy interview with Laura Kittrell.

Oswald returned to Mary Bledsoe's around 2 :00pm, and once again interrupted

her afternoon nap. W hen Mary explained to Oswald that he was disturbing her privacy,

he promised not to disturb her again. Mary remembered that after Oswald returned to

her home he "fussed with somebody on the phone, I don't know whether it was his wife

or who it was." According to Mary, Oswald remained in her home the rest of the day and

evening.

[ ….]

Laura Kittrell's second interview with Harvey Oswald

A few days after Laura's first interview with Harvey Oswald he showed up at her

office a little after 1:00pm. (Laura thought a Friday and a week-end intervened between

the two interviews).

NOTE: Oswald moved into his new address at 1026 N. Beckley at 4:00pm on Octo-

ber 14 and began work at the Book Depository at 8:00am on October 16. The only day

that Oswald could have arrived at Miss Kittrell's office looking for work and given her

his new address and phone number in Oak Cliff was on October 15. On October 16,

Oswald was working at the TSBD.

Laura recalled that Lee Harvey Oswald was wearing a starched, cotton sport

shirt and apologized for being a few minutes late for the GATB tests. Laura escorted

him to the test room and then returned to her desk. Two and a half hours later (approxi-

mately 3:30 pm) Oswald met with Laura to discuss the test results. Laura recalled that

he made a "126" on the verbal part of his test, a "116" on the IQ score, and a score that

was "below the middle" on the physical quality score (eye-hand coordination). Noting

that Oswald recorded a high score on the verbal portion of the test Laura said, "You must

read a lot," to which Oswald replied, "Oh, yeah, I read." When she asked him the name

of the last book he had read Oswald replied, "Oh, a James Bond book, I guess."

NOTE: A year after the assassination Laura looked through the 26 Volumes and found

Oswald's test scores from the TEC office in Fort Worth in 1962. But the results from his

2 and 1/2 hours of testing in October 1963, which Laura remembered and interpreted,

were not published in the Volumes and disappeared from the TEC offices.

Following the GATB tests Laura and Oswald had a long discussion about the

type of work he wanted. Laura agreed to help him find a "white-collar" job and then

called the Clerical Office and advised that he had completed the aptitude tests. Before

Oswald left he gave Laura a new telephone number and a new address in Oak Cliff. T he

telephone number was WH 3-8993 and the address was 1026 N. Beckley.

A few days later Laura tried to contact Oswald (Oct 17 or 18 ?) and recalled that

a woman with a gruff voice answered the phone and identified herself as the house-

keeper (Earlene Roberts). When Laura asked for Mr. Oswald the woman said, "Who?

Who? ..... Oh, You mean Mr. Lee? (Oswald registered as "O.H. Lee")? The woman told

Laura that "Mr. Lee" was not in and said that his wife lived at another location.

[ …. ]

October 17 (Thursday)- the Teamster

On or about October 17, while Harvey was working at the TSBD, a man closely

resembling Oswald showed up at Laura Kittrell's office. Laura said, "I just looked up

from my desk and there he was, standing beside it, and grinning." She recalled the man

was wearing a red and white checkered sport shirt, which reminded her of a tablecloth,

and he appeared to be a "shaggy" type of person. [OCT, 63-09]

The man told Laura, "The (Unemployment) Claims Office sent me back to

you. You got to change my Primary Code. You got to change it back to what was in the

beginning. I have just joined the Teamsters' Union. Joined last night (or possibly the

night before last). You don't have to have a driver's license to operate a loading vehicle

within a plant. I was eligible for membership in the Teamster's Union when I left New

Orleans. I decided to go ahead and join them here. I was still eligible ..... They don't have

a job for me right now. T hat's why I' m back filing my claim again ..... A union member

doesn't have to take anything but a Union job, and be signed up for that. And I can go

on filing my claim now." [OCT, 63-10/11]

Laura could not understand why this man was allowed to join the Teamster's

Union when he could not drive. When she asked him for his Teamster's card he replied,

"They haven't got it to me yet." Having interviewed dozens of people each day, Laura

did not immediately remember the man's name, but recognized him as Lee

Harvey Oswald.

Laura retrieved Oswald's application and remembered that she wrote, "Gaso-

line-truck operator, belonging to the 6-88 category of occupational codes." She told

Oswald that she was going to note that his wife was going to have a baby (October 20)

and he said, "No, I said we have a baby, and are going to have another." Somewhat

confused, Laura later recalled the conversation with Oswald and thought, "What kind

of a fellow is it that can't remember that his wife has just had a baby?" She concluded

this individual was, "A fellow who was pretending to be the man whose wife has just

had a baby, and who had been coached upon how to answer certain questions which

might arise. and who forgets, a little later, how he has answered them, or if he has."

As the conversation continued Laura began to notice differences between this

man, who she called the "Teamster," and Lee Harvey Oswald, whom she had previously

interviewed. She recalled, "T he laughter which rocked the Teamster would be difficult

for me to imagine as belonging to (Harvey) Oswald." She knew the man sitting in front

of her was filing for unemploy ment compensation, but also knew that it was not unheard

of to send someone in their place to sign for a claims check and to make it appear as

though they were job-hunting. During the course of the interview Laura concluded the

man was not the Same person she previously interviewed. [OCT, 6 -12]

Laura said, "Although the man I remember as (Harvey) Oswald and the man I

remember as the Teamster (Lee Oswald) were much alike in size, shape, and outline,

generally, there was a marked difference between them in bearing and manner. The

man I remember as (Harvey) Oswald was a trim, energetic, compact, well-knit person

who sat on the edge of a chair, but the man I remember as the teamster was a trifling,

shiftless, good-for-nothing lout who sprawled oafishly over his chair and whose move-

ments seemed curiously uncoordinated, like those of a person who had been drinking,

and yet I don't think he had been drinking."81 [OCT,63-13]

Laura also recalled, "He (the "Teamster") was slouchy and he was kind of un-

kempt, not dirty, but messy and very unmilitary looking. That was one thing about Mr.

(Harvey) Oswald, he always looked very military, neat as a pin, and this fellow wasn't.

And he had this peculiar way of laughing and talking so that people all over the room

could hear him, and Mr. (Harvey) Oswald wasn't like that at all." Kittrell said that al-

though she suspected the fellow (the "Teamster") might not have been (Harvey)

Oswald at the time, she wasn't sure and she didn't want to call him a xxxx and create a

scene without being sure.82

Laura said, "I simply did not see how the Teamster-fellow could have been

neither (Harvey) Oswald nor someone pretending to be (Harvey) Oswald." She consid-

ered the possibility that (Harvey) Oswald may have sent someone in his place to sign

for a claim check, but was not sure.

NOTE: After the assassination Laura learned that (Harvey) Oswald began work at the

TSBD on October 16. She could not understand how (Harvey) Oswald, while working

at the Book Depository, had time to visit the TEC Claims office at 2210 Main Street ( 1

mile from the TSBD) and her office at 1206 Ross Avenue ( 6 blocks from the TSBD ). She

also wondered why (Harvey) Oswald would continue to file unemployment claims if he

was working.

After the Warren Commission issued its final Report, Laura studied the 26 vol-

umes of testimony and evidence. She located two photographs in the Volumes that

reminded her of the "Teamster" and took the time to look up the man's name. She

learned the man in the photographs was Larry Crafard, a former employ ee of Jack Ruby,

and wondered if he was the "Teamster." After seeing Crafard's photograph, she searched

the TEC records for his name. She wrote, "I found it (Crafard's application with the

TEC) in the inactive file after my return to work that day." In her 90-page manuscript,

in which she memorialized her interviews with two Oswald's, Laura wrote, "I wish I

could settle this question in my mind (if Crafard was the Teamster), but I can't." But

why would Larry Crafard identify himself as Oswald? For what purpose?

A review of Warren Commission records appears to settle the question of

whether Crafard could have been the "Teamster" who visited the TEC offices pretend-

ing to be Oswald.

* Jack Ruby met Larry Crafard when he (Crafard) was working at the Texas

State Fair (October 5-20). Crafard did not begin working for Ruby and living

at the Carousel club until November 1, two weeks after Laura Kittrell interviewed

the "Teamster. "

* Photographs of Crafard published in the 26 Volumes are very misleading as

they show him with a closed mouth and wearing a long sleeved jacket. W hen

these photographs were taken Larry Crafard's front teeth were missing en-

tirely and he had tattoos on both arms. If Laura Kittrell had known that Crafard

was missing his front teeth she would have realized that the "Teamster," who laughed

loud enough to be heard throughout the room, was not Crafard.

NOTE: Laura Kittrell never realized she was one of the few people who met both Harvey

and Lee Oswald face to face. She was also the only witness who recognized the subtle dif-

ferences between these two young intelligence operatives. Had Laura been given the op-

portunity to interview two of Cuba s top intelligence agents, identical twin brothers An-

tonio and Patricio DeLaGuardia, it is doubtful that she would have recognized any dif-

ference. [OCT, 63-14]

- - - - - - - - - - -

1 WC testimony of James Hosty, 4 H 446.

2 WC testimony of Helen Cunningham, 10 H 119.

3 WC testimony of Irving Statman, 10 H 156.

4 Memo from Winston Scott to Legal Attache Clark D. Anderson,l1/27/63; Document #104-10015-10428.

5 Record number l 04-100 15-l 048, 11/27/63.

6 FBI Airte1 from SAC, Dallas to FBI Director, 12/3/63.

7 WC Hulen Exhibit 7.

8 AP, 11/28/63; New York Times, 11/30/63.

9 National Archives FBI 124-10229-10425, HO 62-2115-170.

10 National Archives, FBI 124-10241-10364, HO 62-2115-248.

11 Alice Echo News, 11/27/63; Corpus Christi Caller-Times, 11/28/63; FBI report, 11/25/63-#105-82555-165; AP, 11/28/63;HSCA #180-10031-10278; FBI report, 11/26/63-124-10178-10419, AF #89-67-131; FBI report, 11/27/63-#124-10018-10241, AF#62-1 09060-1543.

12 FBI interview of Dr. Ben Parker by SA John Russell Graham, 11/26/63; FBI report #124-10019-10236, AF #62-109060-800; WC Document 7, p. 137.

13 WC Exhibit 2821.

14 Ft. Worth Star Telegram, 7/18/76, p. 6b.

15 Ibid.

16 Letter from H.M. Hart, Detective, Criminal Intelligence Section, to Captain W.P. Gannaway, Special Service Bureau, Dallas Police Department.

17 WC testimony of Leonard Hutchison, 10 H 328-329.

18 WC testimony of Leonard Hutchison, 10 H 332, 338.

19 National Archives, HSCA 180-10120-10043, Numbered Files 003984; HSCA interview of Leonard Hutchison by Jack Moriarty, 10/13/77.

20 WC Document 205, p. 497; FBI interview of Ray Randuk by SA Bardwell Odum, 12/12/63.

21 WC Gangl Exhibit 1; Affidavit of Theodore Frank Gangl, 6/16/64.

22 WC Exhibit 1782.

23 WC Exhibit 2124.

24 WC Report, p. 737; WC Exhibit 2124.

25 CIA cable from R.L. Easby to Director John McCone, 11/23/63; Doc # 104-10015-10289.

26 WC Document 5, p. 197; FBI interview of Ruth Paine by SA Joe Abernathy, 11/23/63.

27 Report of Postal Inspectors Niewoehner and McCoy, 12/4/63.

28 WC Report, p. 737; WC Exhibit 2124.

29 WC Exhibit 2944.

30 WC Exhibit 2448.

31 WC Exhibit 2214.

32 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 426.

33 WC Exhibit 1782; we Exhibit 2124.

34 FBI memo by SA Robert Gemberling, 12/23/63; 105-2909-429.

35 FBI Exhibit D-88; WC Cunningham Exhibit 1-A.

36 Copied from original letter by J. Gary Shaw, Cleburne, TX.

37 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 403-404.

38 Ibid. at 404.

39 FBI interview of Mary Bledsoe by SA James S. Weir, 11/23/63.

40 FBI Exhibit D-88; Cunningham Ex. No. 1-A.

41 WC testimony of Donald E. Brooks, 10 H 144.

42 WC Exhibit 1413, Volume 22, p. 814.

43 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 403-404.

44 FBI Exhibit D-88; Cunningham Ex. No. 1-A.

45 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 404.

46 WC Document 183, p. 43, Interview of Jerome Cushman by SA John B. Lee, 12112/63.

47 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 404.

48 Cunningham Ex. No 3, line 14.

49 Kitrell p. 14.

50 Conversation with Candace W heat, State Fair of Texas, 1/2001.

51 Mickey Cohen, "In My Own Words," (New York) 1975.

52 Anthony Lucas, "Nighthouse: the Underside of the Nixon Year. "

53 WC Exhibit 1413, Volume 22, p. 814.

54 WC CD 7, p. 496; FBI interview of Robert Hayes by SA Bardwell Odum, 12/12/63.

55 Wanted Notice Card, Jacket No. 327 925 D.

56 Affidavit of James D. Crowley, 11 H 482.

57 WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 405.

58 Task Force Report, CIA, 1977, p. 10.

59 Report of the Inspector General p. 87-88.

60 Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961-63, U.S. State Department, Volume IV: Vietnam August-December, 1963.

61 Arthur Schlesinger, "A Thousand Days," p. 339.

62 WC testimony of Clifton Shasteen, 10 H 314-315.

63 Ibid. at 31 7.

64.Ibid. at 316.

65. WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 427.

66. Ibid. at 405-406.

67. WC testimony of Ruth Paine, 3 H 32.

68. WC Exhibit 1809.

69. WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, 6 H 406-407.

70. FBI Exhibit D-89.

71.WC testimony of Ruth Paine, 3 H 34.

72. WC testimony of Wesley Frazier, 2 H 212.

73. WC testimony of Linnie Mae Randle, 2H 246-247.

74. WC testimony of Earlene Roberts, 6 H 436-437

75. WC Exhibit 1167, Volume 22, p. 248.

76. FBI memo by SA Robert Gemberling, 12/23/63, 105-2909-429.

77. National Archives, SSCIA 157-10008-10055, Memo. WC Memo from Coleman-Slawson to Jenner-Liebeler, 3/12/64.

78. WC testimony of Roy Truly, 3 H 214.

79. DOC #104-10015-10107, 104-10015-10289

80. WC testimony of Roy Truly, 3 H 213-218

81. Kittrell Manuscript, pp. 80, 81.

82. National Archives, HSCA 180-10075-10162, Numbered Files 010133; Memo from Gaeton Fonzi to Blakey, 7/18/78, p. 9.

[Dawn Meredith]

I await someone's "explanation" of this evidence. Very damning. But I am sure it will be twisted to show that Ms. Kitrell was mistaken, or lying. That she actually reviewed the WC volumes is further proof that she knew she had interviewed two different people and was trying to reconcile this fact in some manner.

Dawn

[Thomas Graves]

From Harvey and Lee, selected pages from 707-738:

[...]

Jim,

Why didn't you post the whole book?

LOL

Kittrell was a bit of a nut case, described as a "frustrated old maid" and somewhat "squirrelly" by her boss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=196&tab=page

She thought some voting machines in Dallas had been purposefully broken and persistently insisted that the FBI correct the problem.

One-and-one-half years after the assassination, she sent a rambling, handwritten (and literally slanted) fourteen-page letter to Attorney General Robert Kennedy about her experiences regarding "The Two Oswalds" at the Fort Worth TEC.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=203&tab=page

She doesn't come across as a credible witness to me.

BTW, The guy in the black motorcycle jacket does sound like Larry Crafard, although Kittrell doesn't say anything about his missing front teeth. Maybe she found that so gosh darn unpleasant to look at that she blotted it out from her old maid memory. Or maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth very much when he spoke.

The long-sleeved motorcycle jacket would have covered his tattoos, wouldn't it.

You quoted Armstrong:

"In early October (probably October 8th) Laura was interviewing a colored woman who wanted to quit domestic employment and find work as a trainee in an electronics factory. During the interview the woman told Laura that she used to work as a maid for [...] Murray Chotiner in California."

Why would the black lady "drop" Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California, too, and the lady thought the fact she had worked for him would impress Kittrell?

Chotiner was already well known when he was Nixon's vice presidential campaign manager during the 1952 elections, and would have received national "press" in that regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Chotiner

Also, an infamous double murder occurred in attorney / former Nixon campaign manager Chotiner's office in July of 1957, and it received a lot of publicity immediately afterwards and during the trial, at which Chotiner was a major witness. Chotinier was even considered a suspect for a while.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/174/281.html

Lastly, why did Kitterell express in her June, 1965, letter to RFK that she had been very reluctant to mention the Fort Worth TEC "Chotiner incident" if not for the fact that Kitterell was already aware of Chotinier's notoriety and knew that many other people were aware of it, too?

Therefore, it's not surprising that the guy in the black motorcycle jacket had heard of Chotiner, especially if that guy was Larry Crafard, employee of Jack Ruby, whom some say was introduced to Nixon by Chotinier in 1946 or 1947.

You know, Jim, I'm starting to think that Larry Crafard and The Two Oswalds were chosen many, many years earlier to participate in the Harvey and Lee and Larry tripleganger project because they all looked so much alike.

LOL

--Tommy

Edited June 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

What I don't get about what Dawn calls this 'damning evidence' is that we have to believe Kittrell when she asserts that documents she filled out and remembered clearly subsequently disappeared. What I would appreciate from the H and L folks is a simple guide to actual documents, not Kittrell testimony after the fact, that supports her memories of two distinct Oswalds.

Is there actual documented evidence that Oswald the teenager lived in California? I use Oswald in the singular on purpose. For the sake of this argument I don't care which Oswald.

[Dawn Meredith]

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".