Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Robin Unger]

2 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

On 12/31/2016 at 5:24 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the undeletable message above this.

Hard to see how there could be a curb (kerb?) on the left side, as there seem to be vehicles parked on either side of the Elm St. extension. Aren't they out in the middle of the extension?

Running Woman, OTOH, appears to be on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD.

Yes to my eyes they appear to be near the middle of the roadway, just covering all the bases, regarding Shelleys true height.

when compared to the man in the suit seen in Couch.

[Bill Miller]

19 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Cite and quote it yourself, Bill. You don't give orders to people around here, do you follow me?

I only pointed out once again that you cannot just tell someone your conclusion without detailing how you reached it. How else would one know if you have interpreted the witnesses statements correctly or not. Your misstatement that Shelley mentioned a 'concrete Island' is a prime example. Shelley mentioned the area between the two streets as the Island and/or a divider, and he referenced the 'concrete' as the location on the Island he was near when he looked back and saw Truly and Baker at the first step and about to enter the TSBD.

As far as citing your evidence ... why would someone need to be ordered to extend a courtesy that others freely give to them when stating their position. Hope you are now able to follow me.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Robin Unger]

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the Sandy Larsen intro above

Robin

" Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. "

[Robin Unger]

Edited January 3, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Robert Prudhomme]

21 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

I don't think Mr. Miller quite understands the concrete island concept. The concrete actually stopped just to the east of that big tree in late 1963. The concrete was added on either side of that tree as so many people were walking around it, the grass was being destroyed. You can see the difference in old and new concrete. As we have located them in the middle of the street and way west of the concrete island, I wonder how they could have been on the concrete island and looked back to see Baker and Truly "fixin' to get ready" to go up the stairs, as Baker and Truly hadn't even met when S&L were well past the island?

[Bill Miller]

Just now, Robert Prudhomme said:

On 12/31/2016 at 0:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the Sandy Larsen intro above

Robin

" Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. "

When they left the Island and walked to the RR Yard - they walked down the middle of the Elm Street extension.

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.

Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore sandy Larsen intro above

 

Wait a minute Bill. Now we have to ignore the first day statement where Shelley ran across to the island and talked to Gloria Calvery there.

Will you please make up your mind which piece of evidence you plan to go with, as they all seem to contradict each other?

You can't simply cherry pick whatever evidence happens to work with your current theory.

[Robin Unger]

The FBI first day statements seem to be all over the place.

One of them has Shelley and Lovelady chasing the limo down Elm st.

[Bill Miller]

13 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

 

Wait a minute Bill. Now we have to ignore the first day statement where Shelley ran across to the island and talked to Gloria Calvery there.

Will you please make up your mind which piece of evidence you plan to go with, as they all seem to contradict each other?

You can't simply cherry pick whatever evidence happens to work with your current theory.

 

I have said all along that Shelley's comments are supported by the Darnell film if Bart is correct that it is Shelley and Lovelady moving between the cars parked on the Elm Street extension. That Shelley and Lovelady saw co-worker Gloria Calvery running up towards the TSBD crying as they stood on the steps and then they started moving away from the stairs and towards her. As they were crossing the street so to get to the Island, they met her in passing just prior to stepping up on the Island near the tree next to the concrete monument.

The difference between us is that I know that one's recall can be slightly off and still be true to the evidence whereas you think even the slightest error in someone's recall is a lie. My experience has been that in a stressful situation that involve surprise and shock - a witness will remember things in segments and his or her mind will fill in the blanks after the fact in an attempt to make sense of the things they remember. I don't know anyone, with the possible exception of yourself, that has never found out later that they had a detail wrong in that they were certain that had gotten right.

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

Ignore Sand Larsen intro above.

" I have said all along that Shelley's comments are supported by the Darnell film if Bart is correct that it is Shelley and Lovelady moving between the cars parked on the Elm Street extension"

That's a big IF, Bill. There is about as much evidence to support this as there is to support Prayer Man being Oswald. Let me know when they find some better video.

" That Shelley and Lovelady saw co-worker Gloria Calvery running up towards the TSBD crying as they stood on the steps and then they started moving away from the stairs and towards her."

Nope. This is contradicted by first day statements AND Warren Commission testimony. Remember, no cherry picking evidence to make a pet theory work.

"  As they were crossing the street so to get to the Island, they met her in passing just prior to stepping up on the Island near the tree next to the concrete monument."

Nope again. There is not one single thing in any of the statements or testimonies to support this. And, if there was, it would be contradicted by both Shelley's and Lovelady's testimony to the Warren Commission. Remember, cherrypicking ist verboten, ja?

" The difference between us is that I know that one's recall can be slightly off and still be true to the evidence whereas you think even the slightest error in someone's recall is a lie. My experience has been that in a stressful situation that involve surprise and shock - a witness will remember things in segments and his or her mind will fill in the blanks after the fact in an attempt to make sense of the things they remember. I don't know anyone, with the possible exception of yourself, that has never found out later that they had a detail wrong in that they were certain that had gotten right."

Please save your amateur psychological analysis for someone who is actually interested in reading it.

The saddest thing we see in the JFK research community is researchers who fall in love with a pet theory, and blind themselves to anything logical and rational as they are afraid it will threaten their pet theory. You yourself have criticised the Prayer man supporters for this, yet do not see it in yourself. It becomes necessary for them to cherry pick the pieces of evidence that support their pet theory, and reject all other evidence as

1) confused

2) mistaken

3) lying

4) misremembering (my personal favourite )

5) altered

6) the list goes on but I can't think of anything right now

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Robert Prudhomme

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Not exactly on the concrete island. I wonder if they returned to the concrete island before turning back to see Baker and Truly "fixin' to get ready" to go up the stairs?

More like where the 00s are.

The concrete island is just jibber-jabber. Ball asked if they went straight across the street and Shelley said more to the right. And again they passed Calvery, if she is running woman, and were very  close to the curb on the south side of the extension. A few steps more and they are on the island in time to look back and see truly and baker at the top of the steps and about ready to enter the TSBD.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the undeletable message above this.

You have completely lost the ability to make a rational comment, Bill. This discussion is going nowhere, if you refuse to see reality for what it is. Therefore, I am going to place you on my Ignore List. Have a nice life!

Edited January 3, 2017 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robin Unger]

[Robin Unger]

Edited January 3, 2017 by Robin Unger