Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Chris Newton]

Sean,

I think GM's answer to

Who, if not Lovelady, do you think it might be?

will be: "anyone but Oswald because his location is enshrined for all time in my museum. I mean what would we do with all that space if our CIA supported farce was revealed?"

[Ray Mitcham]

Here's "Prayer Man" and three photos of Oswald that was put together by someone who is not a member of this forum and emailed to me a while back, and I'm sorry I've been off line and haven't had time to post it, and haven't kept up with this thread so I don't know if it has already been posted.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/prayer-man-at-tsbd

I think it makes it clear that "Prayer Man" could most certainly be Oswald, though I am also giving odds on it possibly being B.W. Frazer.

I don't buy the speculation that "Prayer Man" is eating Oswald's cheese sandwich, drinking a coke, taking pictures or eating an apple, or that this is where the encounter with Baker and Truly takes place - as Baker would have no reason to suspect "Prayer Man" of being suspicious, and he can't be drinking a coke - if he is Oswald because he didn't buy the coke yet. I also don't think Baker and Truly found Oswald sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom drinking a coke, as the SS reenactment photo would indicate.

I also place more credence in the original Youtube film of "College Boy" standing on the steps and then walking down and east on Elm, who I believe could be "Prayer Man" and/or Oswald, and this segment needs to be identified as to who took the film and who is in it.

I'd also like to hear what Buel Wesley Frazer has to say about it.

BK

Bill, you say Oswald "didn't buy the coke yet'. Is there any reason why he could not have bought it befor he came to the entrance. What proof have you that he hadn't "bought it yet"?

[Richard Hocking]

Regarding the Bond #5 photo, Gary Mack says the man in the Brown suit and hat is actually Wiegman.

He also sent a film clip from a Don Cook/KTVT film. Gary said James Darnell is the guy with no hat, with the camera at 1:59 in the film clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kaVM2-9f3Q&feature=player_embedded

Hi

Can you please ask GM who he thinks 'Prayer Man' might be?

Thanks - Steve

Hi Steve,

In post #57 (p4) of this thread Bill Kelly posted this concerning Gary's opinion:

" ... Mack also says that no one who worked at the TSBD saw Oswald on the steps, or said they did, and the man is too short to be the 5' 9" Oswald, and that by the time the frame is filmed Oswald is on or waiting for the bus, which doesn't make any sense if Baker runs into Oswald on the second floor about a minute later. I think Gary will alter that statement after reflection. ..."

Edit: Gary replies that the quote above concerns a different film clip (not the Darnell clip with PM in it).

This quote is probably in relation to the clip posted by Bill Kelly in his original post on this thread. To my knowledge, no one has identified the photographer/source of that clip.

Hi Richard

Thank you so much for taking the time to express GM's views and even though Gary was kind enough to mail me directly I appreciate your effort.

Thanks - Steve

You are welcome, Steve.

[Richard Hocking]

We have reasonably established Prayer Man as a TSBD man, his clothing indicating a manual labor type employee as opposed to a managerial type that would be wearing suit and tie. The available candidates that meet these criteria are limited. They include order fillers, janitor, clerks, and warehousemen. Below is a list of TSBD employees who meet that description. I have added observations regarding their locations when the motorcade passed the TSBD, as claimed in testimony or revealed in film and photo evidence, along with some comments regarding their possibility of being Prayer Man.

Danny Arce Floor laying crew at the TSBD - Watched Presidential Limo from North side of Elm Street in front of TSBD, (to the West of the Entrance). Wrong location; not a candidate.

Jack Dougherty - 5th floor of TSBD 10' from elevator; he is described by Roy Truly as being a great big husky fellow, Description and location disqualify him from consideration as Prayer Man.

Buell Wesley Frazier - Top of front steps at the Center Rail. His precise description of his location, along with his tall thin physique rule him out. See earlier discussion about Frazier (and photos) in this thread.

Charles Givens - Mullendorf's Cafe or Parking lot at Record Street. Being at least one block away means it could not have been Givens.

James Jarman - 5th floor window below sniper's lair. Photo evidence shows he was on the 5^th floor.

Carl Edward Jones - sitting on the front steps / out by Elm Street with Truly, Campbell and Reid. Saw the President slump after being shot. He cannot be Prayer Man.

Roy Edward Lewis - standing with some ladies in the middle of the front steps. Roy Edwards is almost certainly the African American watching from behind the West Column in Altgens. He is not Prayer Man.

Billy Lovelady - front steps. Gone from the Steps well before the Darnell shot was taken. Corroborated testimony and film show he is not Prayer Man.

Harold Norman - 5th floor window below sniper's lair. Photo evidence shows he was on the 5^th floor.

Eddie Piper sitting on a box watching through the second window from the corner on the 1st floor. Location and other factors rule him out.

Troy Eugene West - making coffee on the 1st floor. Did not know JFK had been shot until people rushed into building talking about it. He is not Prayer Man.

Bonnie Ray Wiliams - 5th floor window below sniper's lair. Photo evidence shows he was on the 5^th floor.

Who's left?

Excellent work, Richard, it's good to get these listed systematically like this.

Just a couple of small additions to copperfasten your points:

-Billy Lovelady is even more definitively ruled out as Prayer Man for the simple reason that the two show up right beside each other in the Wiegman footage:

Now unless someone is going to come forward and tell us that Prayer Man is actually a rather butch woman, we're still stuck with the mother of all questions:

Is Prayer Man none other than Lee Oswald, coke bottle in hand?

Could it really be that simple? You bet your life it could.

Except I do not see a coke in Prayer Man's hands yet,

maybe a later film will show that,

a film taken after Prayer Man has gone upstairs

to the coke machine.

Of course I make no claim to being

a photo expert.

BTW, compliments to Richard Hocking and yourself Sean

for the breakdown of TSBD employees.

You and Richard have done a fantastic job on this thread.

Ladies and Gentleman,

I am a new poster but a long time lurker. I have been a student of the assassination since the late 80's and find this post to be most intriguing. It has taken me several days to follow the action but have since had a few thoughts. I apologize in advance for not being able to cut and paste the photos and videos that I wish to reference, but I would like to share my impressions.

It appears to me that Prayer man is holding a camera. He raises it to his face as the motorcade passes and then lowers it as the action passes. He then rotates his body left to face the crowd on the stairwell as they begin to react to the commotion following the shots.

From the photos and videos in this thread, there is a point when Prayer man is looking to his right and in the next video rotates his body to his left, his hands never change position, indicative of someone holding a camera looking through a viewfinder.

Another observation. If Prayer Man was Oswald and was drinking his Coke, ie, the glare visible in some of the footage, would his Coke still be full as Mrs. Reid testified to later, or would it have been half empty by then. This assumes PM/ Oswald returned to the 2nd floor from the entrance?

Another thought, if Prayer Man/Oswald was eating his lunch and ham sandwich at the front entrance as suggested, would the ham sandwich show a reflection as seen in the video?

I am jumping into deep water, but you have to get wet at some point. I mean no slight on the amazing work Sean and the rest of you have done. These are just field notes from someone familiar with the assassination and intrigued by the questions brought forth in this thread.

Much respect to all of you.

Dave

David,

Thanks for your observations.

There are several other members who believe Prayer Man is holding a camera.

There is also an interesting story that lends support to that interpretation.

Oswald's Imperial Reflex camera is unaccounted for that day.

On the afternoon of November 22, 1963, the Ruth Paine residence became a beehive of Dallas Police activity. Her home and garage were thoroughly searched by a team of Dallas Police officers looking for anything that belonged to Oswald, any type of evidence that might have significance in the assassination. This team included Detectives Adamcik, Stovall, Rose, Moore, Walthers and Detective McCabe of the Irving PD. They actually searched Paine's residence on two days, the 22nd and the 23rd.

Oswald owned two cameras: A Minox, and an Imperial Reflex. The search team reported finding one camera that belonged to Oswald and one that belonged to Ruth Paine. The DPD took pictures of Oswald's possessions. One of the pictures shows a camera:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/a/a7/Photo_wcd102_052.jpg

The camera in the picture is not the Imperial Reflex. It does resemble the Minox.

Could Oswald have taken the Imperial Reflex to the TSBD on Friday, the 22nd? And more specifically, could that be the object in PM's hands?

The saga of the Imperial Reflex continues. On December 8th, According to Robert Oswald, he stops by the Paine's house to pick up the remainder of Lee's possessions. He takes a box out of the garage that contains several items including -- the Imperial Reflex Camera. How did this slip past the Police search team? It is after all, the camera alleged to have taken the Backyard photos.

In February and March of 1964, the FBI is trying to clean up the loose ends and questions regarding the Camera issues. Robert Oswald turns over the camera to the FBI. James Hosty interviews McCabe. McCabe now remembers that he actually saw the Imperial Reflex and moved it onto a dresser because he did not think it belonged to Oswald.

None of the other members of the Police Search team recalled seeing the Imperial Reflex while they were there.

The FBI issued some reports to lay the issue to rest.

Some reading material on this issue:

http://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/mccabe.htm

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2557.pdf

Edited September 15, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Robert Prudhomme]

If this were the Imperial Reflex camera Prayer Man was holding, would he be bringing it up to his face to take pictures? As far as I remember, this camera was held at chest level and the photographer looked down into the viewfinder. This was one of the hangups in Marina Oswald's testimony.

[Thomas Graves]

If this were the Imperial Reflex camera Prayer Man was holding, would he be bringing it up to his face to take pictures? As far as I remember, this camera was held at chest level and the photographer looked down into the viewfinder. This was one of the hangups in Marina Oswald's testimony.

Robert,

Good point.

However....

He might have been raising it in order to change the shutter speed and/or the aperture setting...

--Tommy

Edited September 15, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

If this were the Imperial Reflex camera Prayer Man was holding, would he be bringing it up to his face to take pictures? As far as I remember, this camera was held at chest level and the photographer looked down into the viewfinder. This was one of the hangups in Marina Oswald's testimony.

Robert,

Good point.

However....

He might have been raising it in order to change the shutter speed and/or the aperture setting...

--Tommy

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both the shutter speed and aperture setting on the Imperial Reflex camera were fixed. It was not that expensive a camera.

[William Kelly]

Here's "Prayer Man" and three photos of Oswald that was put together by someone who is not a member of this forum and emailed to me a while back, and I'm sorry I've been off line and haven't had time to post it, and haven't kept up with this thread so I don't know if it has already been posted.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/prayer-man-at-tsbd

I think it makes it clear that "Prayer Man" could most certainly be Oswald, though I am also giving odds on it possibly being B.W. Frazer.

I don't buy the speculation that "Prayer Man" is eating Oswald's cheese sandwich, drinking a coke, taking pictures or eating an apple, or that this is where the encounter with Baker and Truly takes place - as Baker would have no reason to suspect "Prayer Man" of being suspicious, and he can't be drinking a coke - if he is Oswald because he didn't buy the coke yet. I also don't think Baker and Truly found Oswald sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom drinking a coke, as the SS reenactment photo would indicate.

I also place more credence in the original Youtube film of "College Boy" standing on the steps and then walking down and east on Elm, who I believe could be "Prayer Man" and/or Oswald, and this segment needs to be identified as to who took the film and who is in it.

I'd also like to hear what Buel Wesley Frazer has to say about it.

BK

Bill, you say Oswald "didn't buy the coke yet'. Is there any reason why he could not have bought it befor he came to the entrance. What proof have you that he hadn't "bought it yet?

BK: Well the proof is in the film - as Baker has yet to enter the building, and we know that he runs to the back of the first floor with Truly and then goes up the steps behind Truly and sees Oswald through the window of the second floor lunchroom door, having entered the vestibule through the south door. Baker moves closer and sees Oswald walking away from him through the window and then opens the door and confronts him before he buys the coke. Truly ids Oswald as an employee and Baker and Truly move on while Oswald buys his coke and then leves through the same door he entered - the south door that leads to the office, where he passes Mrs. Reid with the full coke in hand.

So why not stick to what is known to be true - as speculating whether "Prayer Man" is holding a coke, camera or sandwich is just that pure speculation that doesn't add to what we know. Of course "Prayer Man" could be someone other than Oswald and be holding a coke. But if it is Oswald, he hasn't bought the coke yet.

While Dave Reitzes tries to discount all witness testimony in his Skeptic article, as i mention in my "The Perspective Part" blog post - we are entirely dependent on what witnesses say happened, and can believe them or not, but we still depend on them to tell us what happened.

BK

Here's "Prayer Man" and three photos of Oswald that was put together by someone who is not a member of this forum and emailed to me a while back, and I'm sorry I've been off line and haven't had time to post it, and haven't kept up with this thread so I don't know if it has already been posted.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/prayer-man-at-tsbd

I think it makes it clear that "Prayer Man" could most certainly be Oswald, though I am also giving odds on it possibly being B.W. Frazer.

I don't buy the speculation that "Prayer Man" is eating Oswald's cheese sandwich, drinking a coke, taking pictures or eating an apple, or that this is where the encounter with Baker and Truly takes place - as Baker would have no reason to suspect "Prayer Man" of being suspicious, and he can't be drinking a coke - if he is Oswald because he didn't buy the coke yet. I also don't think Baker and Truly found Oswald sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom drinking a coke, as the SS reenactment photo would indicate.

I also place more credence in the original Youtube film of "College Boy" standing on the steps and then walking down and east on Elm, who I believe could be "Prayer Man" and/or Oswald, and this segment needs to be identified as to who took the film and who is in it.

I'd also like to hear what Buel Wesley Frazer has to say about it.

BK

Bill, you say Oswald "didn't buy the coke yet'. Is there any reason why he could not have bought it befor he came to the entrance. What proof have you that he hadn't "bought it yet"?

[Richard Hocking]

If this were the Imperial Reflex camera Prayer Man was holding, would he be bringing it up to his face to take pictures? As far as I remember, this camera was held at chest level and the photographer looked down into the viewfinder. This was one of the hangups in Marina Oswald's testimony.

Robert,

Good point.

However....

He might have been raising it in order to change the shutter speed and/or the aperture setting...

--Tommy

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both the shutter speed and aperture setting on the Imperial Reflex camera were fixed. It was not that expensive a camera.

Another possibility -- the Imperial Reflex has a plastic knob that turns to advance the film. PM is standing in a shadowy area. He might have raised the camera up higher to get a better look at the film sequence indicator to make sure it had been wound correctly for the next shot. A common camera issue in those days.

[Robert Prudhomme]

If this were the Imperial Reflex camera Prayer Man was holding, would he be bringing it up to his face to take pictures? As far as I remember, this camera was held at chest level and the photographer looked down into the viewfinder. This was one of the hangups in Marina Oswald's testimony.

Robert,

Good point.

However....

He might have been raising it in order to change the shutter speed and/or the aperture setting...

--Tommy

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both the shutter speed and aperture setting on the Imperial Reflex camera were fixed. It was not that expensive a camera.

Another possibility -- the Imperial Reflex has a plastic knob that turns to advance the film. PM is standing in a shadowy area. He might have raised the camera up higher to get a better look at the film sequence indicator to make sure it had been wound correctly for the next shot. A common camera issue in those days.

Very good point, Richard, and a definite possibility.

[Sean Murphy]

It needs to be stated again that the theory I have been outlining in this thread posits an encounter involving Lee Oswald, Marrion Baker and Roy Truly that was perfectly simple and straightforward.

Oswald is out front for the motorcade...

... and Marrion Baker very briefly addresses him as he, Baker, runs into the building... only to have Roy Truly intervene and offer his assistance as building manager.

All the complexity in the theory--all of it--pertains to the frantic attempts made in the hours, days and weeks ahead to cover up this simple event.

For those attempts had one brutal aim: to deprive Oswald of his all too clear alibi by displacing the Baker encounter to a location somewhere at or near the rear of the building--i.e. a location consistent with the notion of Oswald as the sixth floor shooter.

The incident in black actually happened.

The incidents in red and green are pure fiction.

And it is in understanding the precise relationship between the one real event and each of the two fictions, as well as the precise relationship between the two fictions themselves, that we can come to account for the carefully coached nonsense of Baker and Truly's WC testimony.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Richard Hocking]

Here's "Prayer Man" and three photos of Oswald that was put together by someone who is not a member of this forum and emailed to me a while back, and I'm sorry I've been off line and haven't had time to post it, and haven't kept up with this thread so I don't know if it has already been posted.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/prayer-man-at-tsbd

I think it makes it clear that "Prayer Man" could most certainly be Oswald, though I am also giving odds on it possibly being B.W. Frazer.

I don't buy the speculation that "Prayer Man" is eating Oswald's cheese sandwich, drinking a coke, taking pictures or eating an apple, or that this is where the encounter with Baker and Truly takes place - as Baker would have no reason to suspect "Prayer Man" of being suspicious, and he can't be drinking a coke - if he is Oswald because he didn't buy the coke yet. I also don't think Baker and Truly found Oswald sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom drinking a coke, as the SS reenactment photo would indicate.

I also place more credence in the original Youtube film of "College Boy" standing on the steps and then walking down and east on Elm, who I believe could be "Prayer Man" and/or Oswald, and this segment needs to be identified as to who took the film and who is in it.

I'd also like to hear what Buel Wesley Frazer has to say about it.

BK

Bill, you say Oswald "didn't buy the coke yet'. Is there any reason why he could not have bought it befor he came to the entrance. What proof have you that he hadn't "bought it yet?

BK: Well the proof is in the film - as Baker has yet to enter the building, and we know that he runs to the back of the first floor with Truly and then goes up the steps behind Truly and sees Oswald through the window of the second floor lunchroom door, having entered the vestibule through the south door. Baker moves closer and sees Oswald walking away from him through the window and then opens the door and confronts him before he buys the coke. Truly ids Oswald as an employee and Baker and Truly move on while Oswald buys his coke and then leves through the same door he entered - the south door that leads to the office, where he passes Mrs. Reid with the full coke in hand.

So why not stick to what is known to be true - as speculating whether "Prayer Man" is holding a coke, camera or sandwich is just that pure speculation that doesn't add to what we know. Of course "Prayer Man" could be someone other than Oswald and be holding a coke. But if it is Oswald, he hasn't bought the coke yet.

While Dave Reitzes tries to discount all witness testimony in his Skeptic article, as i mention in my "The Perspective Part" blog post - we are entirely dependent on what witnesses say happened, and can believe them or not, but we still depend on them to tell us what happened.

BK

Here's "Prayer Man" and three photos of Oswald that was put together by someone who is not a member of this forum and emailed to me a while back, and I'm sorry I've been off line and haven't had time to post it, and haven't kept up with this thread so I don't know if it has already been posted.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/prayer-man-at-tsbd

I think it makes it clear that "Prayer Man" could most certainly be Oswald, though I am also giving odds on it possibly being B.W. Frazer.

I don't buy the speculation that "Prayer Man" is eating Oswald's cheese sandwich, drinking a coke, taking pictures or eating an apple, or that this is where the encounter with Baker and Truly takes place - as Baker would have no reason to suspect "Prayer Man" of being suspicious, and he can't be drinking a coke - if he is Oswald because he didn't buy the coke yet. I also don't think Baker and Truly found Oswald sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom drinking a coke, as the SS reenactment photo would indicate.

I also place more credence in the original Youtube film of "College Boy" standing on the steps and then walking down and east on Elm, who I believe could be "Prayer Man" and/or Oswald, and this segment needs to be identified as to who took the film and who is in it.

I'd also like to hear what Buel Wesley Frazer has to say about it.

BK

Bill, you say Oswald "didn't buy the coke yet'. Is there any reason why he could not have bought it befor he came to the entrance. What proof have you that he hadn't "bought it yet"?

Seems like there are several unspoken assumptions in this thread.

One is that PM cannot be on the top step/or Entrance Lobby when Baker goes by, and then also see Baker in the 2nd floor lunch room area.

A second one is that Oswald could only have purchased one Coke that day.

In my own mind, I have not made those concessions just yet.

I understand that Sean has presented a comprehensive scenario that eliminates the 2nd floor encounter. He has most definitely done an outstanding job providing News articles, Photo and film evidence, witness testimony, and applied sound logic and critical thinking to make his case. A tremendous effort that he has shared with the JFK Research community.

But I also believe that we can begin from the same starting point (with Prayer Man on the steps, Baker and Truly coming in through the entrance) and entertain the possibility of some of the story unfolding in a different way, or in a slightly different form than Sean's scenario.

[Sean Murphy]

As we have seen, Marrion Baker went to DPD HQ the afternoon of the assassination and gave an affidavit stating that he had caught a man walking away from the rear stairway on the third or fourth floor, but that he had let the man go when the building manager vouched for him as an employee.

This story--a fiction--would likely have formed the sensational centrepiece of Baker and Truly's WC testimony had it not been for two things:

a ) the adverse and quite possibly principled reaction of Baker upon seeing Oswald being brought into the Homicide Office just as he was giving his affidavit

b ) the bravery of one woman: Vicki Adams.

**

Regarding a )

The document filed by or on behalf of Will Fritz at some point after Oswald's death made a false claim:

Baker attended no such lineup.

He made no such formal identification of Oswald.

Indeed, we have good reason to believe he positively refused to do so.

And the crisis which his refusal was causing is reflected in the fact that the above note makes no mention of where in the building Officer Baker had seen Oswald.

All they had, and all they could clutch on to, was the crucial fact that Oswald's presence in the building just after the assassination was securely established by an officer's sighting of him.

Given the collapse of the affidavit version of events, the precise where and how of this sighting still had to be worked out--and Baker worked on.

**

Regarding b )

As Barry Ernest has confirmed to me, the authorities heard very quickly indeed from Ms. Adams:

Vicki told me she was questioned by several authorities when she returned to her office shortly after the assassination. She said she told each one about her trip down the stairs with Sandra. She and others in her office were dismissed around 2 p.m.

I have not found a record of these "interviews" taken that early in the game. The first recorded interview of Miss Adams occurred by the FBI on 11/24/63. It was detailed and during part of that interview, it was said, "She [Miss Adams] and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the stairs."

Suddenly, maddeningly, the area by the rear stairway was off limits for an Oswald-Baker encounter.

**

And the authorities' fourth-floor headache did not end with Adams and Styles.

Let us remind ourselves again of what Adams's supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barry when he tracked her down in 2011:

Did Miss Adams and Miss Styles leave the window right away, I asked her.

"The girls did," she responded. "I remember them being there and the next thing I knew, they were gone."

They had left "very quickly…within a matter of moments," she added.

What did Mrs. Garner do after that?

"There was this warehouse or storage area behind our office, out by the freight elevators and the rear stairway, and I went out there."

Her move to that area clearly put her into a position where she could have observed activity on the back stairs as well as on the elevators. But how fast had she arrived there?

Mrs. Garner said she immediately went to this area, following "shortly after…right behind" Miss Adams and Miss Styles. She couldn't remember exactly why she went out there, other than to say, "probably to get something." Mrs. Garner said she did not actually see "the girls" enter the stairway, though, arriving on the fourth- floor landing seconds after. When I asked how she knew they had gone down, Mrs. Garner said, "I remember hearing them, after they started down. I remember the stairs were very noisy."

Were the freight elevators in operation during this time?

"I don't recall that," she answered. "They were very noisy too!"

Mrs. Garner said she remained at that spot and was alone for a moment before "several came out back from the office to look out those windows there."

The rear of the fourth floor was getting horribly crowded, so it had to be ruled out--subsequent to Baker's disastrous affidavit statement!--as a viable venue for the phoney Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter.

Same went for the third floor: to put (or keep) the encounter there would be very dangerous, throwing a spotlight on the failure of anyone to see Oswald going down the stairs to three--and raising an awkward question as to whether any amongst these women had noticed Baker and Truly coming up. What if that quesiton elicited the use of the taboo word 'elevator' rather 'stairway'...?

**

Place the encounter any higher than the fourth floor, and things would just start getting silly.

How on earth was Jesse Curry going to explain to the world how one of his men had had Oswald in his clutches in the most incriminating place imaginable--by the rear stairway, right in the shooter's escape route, way up in the building--only to let him loose?

And how on earth was Marrion Baker going to be inveigled into testifying away his good reputation as an officer by signing up to that damning story?

**

What was needed, and urgently, was a Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter away from the front entrance but also somewhere away from the stairs yet still within striking distance of Oswald's escape route down those stairs.

There was literally only one viable venue left: the second-floor lunchroom.

It was far from ideal.

In fact it was pretty crappy.

But it was the best that could be come up with under trying circumstances.

And on the Friday night a decision was made--by the FBI if not by DPD--to run with this new location and somehow make the best of a bad job.

From an FBI teletype sent from Dallas to Washington in the early hours of the Saturday morning:

Edited September 15, 2013 by Sean Murphy

[Sean Murphy]

Seems like there are several unspoken assumptions in this thread.

One is that PM cannot be on the top step/or Entrance Lobby when Baker goes by, and then also see Baker in the 2nd floor lunch room area.

A second one is that Oswald could only have purchased one Coke that day.

In my own mind, I have not made those concessions just yet.

I understand that Sean has presented a comprehensive scenario that eliminates the 2nd floor encounter. He has most definitely done an outstanding job providing News articles, Photo and film evidence, witness testimony, and applied sound logic and critical thinking to make his case. A tremendous effort that he has shared with the JFK Research community.

But I also believe that we can begin from the same starting point (with Prayer Man on the steps, Baker and Truly coming in through the entrance) and entertain the possibility of some of the story unfolding in a different way, or in a slightly different form than Sean's scenario.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the kind words.

My take on the second-floor lunchroom is as follows:

a ) It almost certainly did not happen.

b ) In the very unlikely event that it did happen, it most certainly cannot have involved Oswald/Prayer Man's hurrying upstairs for a coca-cola: he must surely have been keeping tabs on Baker and Truly's progress.

c ) Those CTs (and I don't mean you!) who are open to the Prayer Man-Oswald identification but dogmatically closed to any doubts whatsoever about the second-floor lunchroom incident seem unaware of the accusation of complicity they are in effect levelling at Oswald.

d ) That said, simultaneous acceptance that Oswald is Prayer Man and rejection of the second-floor lunchroom story does not entail any necessary commitment to the view that Oswald is wholly innocent of any involvement in the assassination; it allows for arguments both ways.

[Larry Hancock]

It seems relevant for me to note the experience of my friend Connie Kritzberg during the first 24 hours of the assassination. A reporter in Dallas, she had written up an interview very

clearly describing a shot from the front. She turned her story in at the end of the day, knowing it might be the most important news piece she would ever write, and was horrified to

see that the next morning, when it appeared in print, that the wording had been changed. Not a big change, simply a tweak in the wording to make the indication of a frontal shot less

conclusive. She recognized the change immediately and called her editor who pushed back declaring he had not changed her wording. After her pushing him a bit more he

told her that if she had any issues about the whole thing she would need to contact the FBI.

Later her research into the various iterations of her copy suggested that her story had been read over the phone to someone and edited outside the paper itself. Of course she has no

solid proof of that but she is absolutely certain her copy was changed, her editor denied he had done it so as far as she is concerned, it remains an very open question.

-- Larry