Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yep, I understand you believe the limo slowed prior to the fatal head shot, I was hoping to show you the cause of GREER slowing down which helps to illuminate what happened during the assassination. If you can give serious consideration to the first shot having occurred at ~Z-189 and was basically undetected, then the first of three rifle shots occurred after Z-312 all of the photographic evidence becomes comprehensible as well as the majority of the testimony. If you can see this the assassination is no longer a mystery, it has a logical and reasonable solution corroborated by all films, all photographs and the majority of testimony. Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yep, I understand you believe the limo slowed prior to the fatal head shot, I was hoping to show you the cause of GREER slowing down which helps to illuminate what happened during the assassination. If you can give serious consideration to the first shot having occurred at ~Z-189 and was basically undetected, then the first of three rifle shots occurred at Z-313 all of the photographic evidence becomes comprehendible as well as the majority of the testimony. If you can see this the assassination is no longer a mystery, it has a logical and reasonable solution corroborated by all films, all photographs and the majority of testimony. Robert, Just trying to understand what you're saying. So I gotta ask some "dumb" questions: was your "shot at approx. Z-189" a rifle shot? If so, was it the first "rifle shot"? Were all of the shots that were fired rifle shots? How many shots were fired all together? Believe it or not, I don't necessarily have an agenda on this. I'm not arguing with you here. Just trying to understand without reading all your previous posts. LOL Thanks, --Tommy Edited January 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Thomas, there are no dumb questions. 4 shot assassination model Shot number 1 : ~Z-189 : was by a silenced weapon : made a slight noise or popping sound, detected by only a very few witnesses : wounded the President in the throat. Apparently only W. NEWMAN, G. NEWMAN and SSA CLINT HILL, READY, LANDIS, BENNETT and HICKEY actually heard this sound : the noise did not cause SSA to become alarmed. Shot number 2 : ~Z-313 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused the fatal head wound. (Z-film altered to remove limo slow down - ~2 to 3 seconds of frames were removed) This gif shows how impossible the CONNALLYS movements were, this gif consists of frames Z-314 and Z-323 in 1/2 second transition, this is how fast the CONNALLYS move in the z-film. Obviously no one can move this quickly, frames had to be removed, which were intended to hide the slow down of the limo, but caused impossibly quick movements. Shot number 3 : ~Z-325 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused wounds to JC. Shot number 4 : ~Z-347 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused the wound to TAGUE. The entire assassination occurred in about 10-12 seconds, the three rifle shots occurred during the last 3 to 3-1/2 seconds. When I say detected by every witness the intention is to mean this was a loud rifle shot, the vast majority of witnesses recalled hearing three rifle shots. Total shots fired - four 1 by a silent weapon 3 by conventional rifle Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thomas, there are no dumb questions. 4 shot assassination model Shot number 1 : ~Z-189 : was by a silenced weapon : made a slight noise or popping sound, detected by only a very few witnesses : wounded the President in the throat. Apparently only W. NEWMAN, G. NEWMAN and SSA CLINT HILL, READY, LANDIS, BENNETT and HICKEY actually heard this sound : the noise did not cause SSA to become alarmed. Shot number 2 : ~Z-313 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused the fatal head wound. (Z-film altered to remove limo slow down - ~2 seconds of frames were removed) This gif shows how impossible the CONNALLYS movements were, this gif consists of frames Z-314 and Z-323 in 1/2 second transition, this is how fast the CONNALLYS move in the z-film. Obviously no one can move this quickly, frames had to be removed, which were intended to hide the slow down of the limo, but caused impossibly quick movements. Shot number 3 : ~Z-325 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused wounds to JC. Shot number 2 : ~Z-347 : was by a rifle : made a noise like a rifle, detected by every witness : caused the wound to TAGUE. The entire assassination occurred in about 10-12 seconds, the three rifle shots occurred during the last 3 to 3-1/2 seconds. When I say detected by every witness the intention is to mean this was a loud rifle shot, the vast majority of witnesses recalled hearing three rifle shots. Robert, Sounds good to me (so far). Thanks, --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks Thomas, you just made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Hi Robert, You said: "4 shot assassination model Shot number 1 : ~Z-189 : was by a silenced weapon : made a slight noise or popping sound, detected by only a very few witnesses : wounded the President in the throat." On the Secret Service Agents Response thread, you also expressed the view that the first shot (the firecracker-like sound) was fired by a gas-powered air rifle of some sort, fired at around Z-186, and fired by a sniper located at the corner of the picket fence. I find this possibility intriguing, and if you still stand by this notion, and if it is important to your larger hypothesis, I would like to see you come up with a horizontal depiction of what a shooter at the corner of the picket fence would be seeing at Z-189 and before. By Z-225, Kennedy is emerging from behind the Stemmons sign and appears to have been hit, possibly in the throat, by a shot that very few have apparently heard. Yes, Zapruder's line of sight, and a possible shooter's line of sight from the corner of the picket fence, are different, but they are also similar. At Z-189 and before, the spectators on Elm Street, the Stemmons sign, and Umbrella Man, appear to be possibly blocking a shooter's view of the limousine occupants. Perhaps this work has already been done, but it would be nice to know if your "picket fence gas-powered" shot is even possible. Thanks, Tom Edited January 20, 2015 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Police Motorcycle Officer Cheney. "Hargis stopped his motor and ran across in front of me… I don’t recall myself stopping.. I must have or come almost to a stop. Hargis did, he got off his motorcycle over on the left hand side and run between those two cars. … and run in front of me, so apparently I did too. I don’t recall stopping but I must have." How could Hargis have run between JFK limo and the SS car if the two cars didn't stop? Ray, IMHO, Hargis would have had plenty of room if just the Queen Mary (the SS car) stopped. But it's immaterial because Hargis' riding between the two cars obviously took place after the fatal head shot. What I'm willing to argue against is the idea that the limo came to a complete stop before the fatal head shot. --Tommy Seems there is some dispute about when the limo stopped but not whether it stopped. There are a large number of witnesses to the limo stop including the following" DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles) - "The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129] DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles) - "After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134] DPD Earle Brown - "The first I noticed the [JFK's] car was when it stopped..after it made the turn and when the shots were fired, it stopped." [6 H 233] DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Hargis (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---"At that time [immediately before the head shot] the Presidential car slowed down. I heard somebody say 'Get going.' I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that." [6 H 294; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71. Texas Highway Patrolman Joe Henry Rich (drove LBJ's car) - stated that "the motorcade came to a stop momentarily." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71] DPD J.W. Foster - stated that "immediately after President Kennedy was struckthe car in which he was riding pulled to the curb." [CD 897, pp. 20, 21; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97] Mrs. Earle "Dearie" Cabell (rode in the Mayor's car) - the motorcade "stopped dead still when the noise of the shot was heard." [7 H 487; "Accessories After the Fact" by Sylvia Meagher (1967), p. 4; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71] Phil Willis - "The [Presidential] party had come to a temporary halt before proceeding on to the underpass." [7 H 497; "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 24] Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car) - stated that "the motorcade ground to a halt." ["Dallas Morning News", 11/23/63, p. 2; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71] Dallas Morning News reporter Mary Woodward (Pillsworth) - "Instead of speeding up the car, the car came to a halt."; she saw the President's car come to a halt after the first shot. Then, after hearing two more shots, close together, the car sped up. [2 H 43 (Lane); "Dallas Morning News," 11/23/63; 24 H 520; "The Men Who Killed Kennedy," 1988]. She spoke forcefully about the car almost coming to a stop and the lack of proper reaction by the Secret Service in 1993. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade" article by Sheldon Inkol] Alan Smith - "the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead, the car went about five feet and stopped." ["Chicago Tribune," 11/23/63, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71] Mrs. Ruth M. Smith - confirmed that the Presidential limousine had come to a stop. [CD 206, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p.97 plus many more (available on request) Edited January 20, 2015 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Tom, I desire to return to DP to see for myself, but according to maps and a Willis photo taken a moment after Z-189, one can see a clear line of sight to the corner of the concrete wall to the President, what is also of interest is a black figure at the corner of the wall in this photo and most significant it is also depicted in Betzners photo taken a moment prior to Z-189. This figure at the corner most likely was the shooter and was obfuscated in both photos. If this line of fire is not realistic, I would sure like to know why(?) I know Robert P. can not comprehend a gas powered rifle being used to deliver a pellet filled with toxin, but his arguments have failed to be compelling. Plus I remember a conversation that the CIA had air powered pistols that had a range of 100 yards that were created to eliminate guard dogs without alarm. We can see the President does not react to the throat wound other than raise his hands to his neck and then appears to loose consciousness, just like what the CIA claimed to be able to do to guard dogs. Interesting there is also a possibility that the weapon was electrical in nature. Tom also of interest maybe the Stemmons Freeway sign effectively blocks from view the corner of the concrete wall from the SSA in the Queen Mary, they may not have been able to see the shooter. It also might have deflected what ever sound the weapon did make. OF note in the Willis photo: SSA HILL, READY, LANDIS, HICKEY and BENNETT have all turned and are looking in the same general direction. Also of Note McINTYRE seems to have been oblivious to the noise as was the MC escorts. Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Ray, the confusion is caused by the fundamental misconception that the last rifle shot heard occurred with the fatal head wound at Z-313. IF you consider that these witnesses are describing the first of the three shots having occurred when the limo is at Z-313 and two more rifle shots followed, then you will realize that the motorcade began to back up and come to a stop in response to GREER slowing down at ~Z-300 and the Queen Mary coming to a complete momentary halt at Z-313 followed by VP car then VP follow-up and so on, then two more shots followed. This explains why SSA protecting the VP can not be seen to react in A6, because they react after Z-313 and why there is no reaction to rifle fire by any witness prior to Z-313. This is why witnesses continue to applaud the President until Z-313. This is why witnesses began to throw themselves to the ground after hearing the rifle shot at Z-313 and not before. IF you re-read the testimonies you posted many of them become clear if you realize that the motorcade began to come to a stop around the time the first rifle shot was heard and then two more rifle shots occurred afterwards every piece of the puzzle starts to fall into place. It is not possible to reconcile three rifle shots occurring prior to Z-313, researchers have attempted this for 51 years without success. Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Robert, maybe this is nit picking, but my only problem is this: At Z-189 there appears to be a clear line of sight from the corner of the picket fence to the President. Immediately before Z-189, however, it appears that the crowd on Elm Street, the Stemmons sign, and Umbrella Man would possibly block a shooter’s view of the limo. Maybe Robert Prudhomme could weigh in on this, but it seems to me that a shooter would need time, maybe three seconds or something, to acquire his target before taking his shot. So it seems prudent to not only ask what a shooter at the corner of the picket fence would be seeing at Z-189, but what a shooter would be seeing, or not seeing, before Z-189. You wrote: “Tom also of interest maybe the Stemmons Freeway sign effectively blocks from view the corner of the concrete wall from the SSA in the Queen Mary, they may not have been able to see the shooter. It also might have deflected what ever sound the weapon did make.” Good point. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Jerrol Custer, the x-ray technician present at JFK's autopsy, testified to the ARRB that the x-rays of JFK's neck in evidence are not the ones he recalled seeing that night, and that the ones he saw showed many small metal fragments in the vicinity of cervical vertebrae C3/C4. Coincidentally, or not, the nerves going to the arms leave the vertebral column, on their way to the arms, in the vicinity of C3/C4. Is it not possible the arm raising/fist clenching at the throat we see JFK doing in the Z film is a reaction to the short circuiting of these nerves by bullet fragments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Tom, I think your questions are very reasonable and need to be fully addressed. I reference Mr Sprague's Dealey Plaza map, assuming the map is a good representation of DP it appears that a shooter located at the end of the concrete wall would have a line of sight to the limo as soon as it turned onto Elm Street starting near the corner, the only thing he would have to wait for is JC to be clear of the line of fire to take the shot. Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Tom, consider the alternatives 1) KENNEDY was not shot from the front and there was no entrance wound in the throat, it was an exit wound, problem being there is then no entrance wound on his back to account for an exit wound in his throat. 2) A shot came thru the windshield and strikes KENNEDY in the throat, it makes a popping noise like a small firecracker, but the sound of the rifle is completely silent and the shot was very long range coming from the far end of the viaduct or a building roof. This also now must implicate GREER and KELLERMAN in the crime because they could not have been oblivious to the noise the bullet made when it penetrated the windshield or the spray of glass shards created by the impact. It also can't explain why HILL, READY, LANDIS, HICKEY and BENNETT look to the GK in response, unless they also are in on it. Robert P is also adamant that the frontal shot could not have possibly have exited from the back, where the hole is currently thought to have been. Also if a bullet exited from the back, where did it go? Also why take a long shot that must penetrate a windshield that could have deflected the bullet, seems it would have very low probability of success. (of interest in helping to resolve this mystery, neither KELLERMAN nor GREER observed ANY damage to the windshield or the limo until they inspected the limo after it had been returned to Washington, nor was the SSA who drove the limo to the airport asked about damage to the windshield, since this damage would have been evidence for a shot coming from the rear, it is most likely that this damage was post added to build evidence of shots coming from the rear.) Conclusion: the hole in windshield and damage to molding was not authentic, it is false evidence. IF the shot in deed was frontal as claimed by Parkland medical staff, it had to come from the GK area. If not the corner of the concrete wall, I am open to other ideas. Edited January 20, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 How about this - None of the evidence we consider indicative of what occurred in Dealey Plaza can be considered Authentic.... NONE of it. (if you have something please name it) Hole in the windshield? the SS says no (never believe anything until it is officially denied) yet bystanders, and a Ford plant employee says other wise Limo slowed/stopped? the Zfilm in evidence is spliced in 8 places and does not have 0183 anywhere on it - yet THAT is what we claim is authentic? We have numerous places where movement illustrates the removal of frames: The Rifle? please Norman hearing the click-click boom, 3 times, 10 feet from his head and still able to hear a bolt and falling shells - right FBI takes ALL the evidence on Nov 22nd and returns hundreds more items than it took... oops Testimony is changed or is said not to match what people claim they said - per for the course Muchmore says she did NOT film the limo or assassination sequence.... Nix's original is gone Altgens 7's negative is Lost and is the only image that does not look like the others with the top right cut off where we should see image I don't think we are in a position to say with certainty what was real or not - I would say tho that we need to give the benefit of the doubt to corroborated witness testimony before we accept FBI/SS/CIA provided evidence of any kind - at least in this case and most of the cases in the 50's and 60's - that is unless you want to beleive this practice did not end in the early 70's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Robert, maybe this is nit picking, but my only problem is this: At Z-189 there appears to be a clear line of sight from the corner of the picket fence to the President. Immediately before Z-189, however, it appears that the crowd on Elm Street, the Stemmons sign, and Umbrella Man would possibly block a shooter’s view of the limo. Maybe Robert Prudhomme could weigh in on this, but it seems to me that a shooter would need time, maybe three seconds or something, to acquire his target before taking his shot. So it seems prudent to not only ask what a shooter at the corner of the picket fence would be seeing at Z-189, but what a shooter would be seeing, or not seeing, before Z-189. You wrote: “Tom also of interest maybe the Stemmons Freeway sign effectively blocks from view the corner of the concrete wall from the SSA in the Queen Mary, they may not have been able to see the shooter. It also might have deflected what ever sound the weapon did make.” Good point. Tom Hi Tom To be fair, some guys can get shots off very fast, especially if they are using a peep sight or open sight, instead of a scope. I have hunted with "quick draw" guys like this who seem to be able to knock a deer down within a second or two of spotting it. It's a little scary, actually, and I usually walk behind these guys when going through the Bush. The shooter would have already known the spot where he was going to take his shot, plus the distance to this spot and, despite the Stemmons sign blocking his sight for a moment, would have been tracking JFK as he came down Elm St. Personally, I don't believe JFK was shot in the throat at z189. I think it was closer to z223 myself, but that's just my opinion. This would give the shooter behind the stockade fence (or Black Dog Man, take your pick) all kinds of time to aim at JFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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